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#151 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849 said:

@battle123axe: Cap aint worthy

since you're taking your logic from the comics, he is.

and in the MCU, he can budge it, by your logic, he's at least capable of cracking it.

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#152 Posted by WastelandMan (8812 posts) - - Show Bio

there's an alarming amount of stupidity in this thread

This.

@tj849 said:

@jaller: but its true isnt it? If ur worthy u can do anything u want with mjolnir

Literally nowhere is that ever stated or even slightly implied in either the mainstream universe or the MCU.

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#153 Edited by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio
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#154 Edited by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849 said:

@battle123axe: MCU can do things differently to the comics

....

proof that it did so here?

and this:

Literally nowhere is that ever stated or even slightly implied in either the mainstream universe or the MCU.

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#155 Posted by jaller (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849: lol what? Citation needed for such a blanket statement. What do you mean "do anything you want". Can you turn it to clay or make it talk? That's silly and sounds like headcanon. Never once stated about mcu mjolnir. And again being worthy has nothing to do with having the power/strength to crush it like a cracker.

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#156 Edited by jaller (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@plotweapon16255: so you are seriously arguing vision and thor can do that to mjolnir? You are stating she can do this because she is worthy? Until you can show proof of her being worthy and wielding mjlonir AND that being the reason she can crush it (you're going to have a hard time with that one), her stopping and destroying is purely a power/strength feat. And we know she overpowers thor strength wise from the massive amounts of trailers and tv spots and clips we have at this point.

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#157 Edited by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

Being worthy to wield mjolnir changes the person Unless ur saying that strength , durability of average asgardian ~ Thor with hammer.

No buddy wants MCU character look weaker but wanking on something that's NLF is not something that can be agreed by everyone.

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#158 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaller: refer back to the other dudes statement

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#159 Posted by jaller (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849: refer back to providing proof that worthiness = ability to destroy it or stop bothering.

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#160 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

Being worthy to wield mjolnir changes the person Unless ur saying that strength , durability of average asgardian ~ Thor with hammer.

No buddy wants MCU character look weaker but wanking on something that's NLF is not something that can be agreed by everyone.

does it change the person to do anything they want with mjolnir? Thor is the god of thunder and lightning, he isn't just some average asgardian. what, is vision's worthiness an amp too?

destroying something forged in the heart of a star isn't an NLF. when the actual movie comes out, we'll see whether it's an outlier or not, but for now, we already know the context and impressiveness of the feat, but i don't see why we have to lowball it instead of waiting for the movie to come out so that we can produce actual counters.

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#161 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaller said:

@tj849: refer back to providing proof that worthiness = ability to destroy it or stop bothering.

+1

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#164 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

... great, and now we're deleting comments

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#165 Posted by jaller (91 posts) - - Show Bio
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#166 Edited by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaller said:

@battle123axe: lol what is going on

there's an interesting deleted comment where we're being blamed for "acting like we know everything about the movie despite having not watched it"

but i'll be nice and delete mine too

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#167 Posted by Batman242 (12057 posts) - - Show Bio

So many people falling for the troll...

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#168 Edited by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

So many people falling for the troll...

eh, you're right

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#169 Posted by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849: @battle123axe:

As far as MCU mjolnir history it never disobeyed any of it's wields command unless you have any proof to disagree the debate ends here.

In comics

Jane Thor=/= Jane.

Unworthy Thor=/= worthy Thor.

Unless ur agreeing that MCU is different from comic this the debate ends here.

"forged in the heart of a dying star " - is NLF since "dying star" is itself a NLF.

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#170 Edited by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@wastelandman@jaller

@plotweapon16255 said:

@tj849: @battle123axe:

As far as MCU mjolnir history it never disobeyed any of it's wields command unless you have any proof to disagree the debate ends here.

In comics

Jane Thor=/= Jane.

Unworthy Thor=/= worthy Thor.

Unless ur agreeing that MCU is different from comic this the debate ends here.

"forged in the heart of a dying star " - is NLF since "dying star" is itself a NLF.

sooooo.

1. MCU vison, 616 Cap, and whoever else can turn Mjolnir to glass and make it a tree if they want. good to know.

2. Jane Foster with Cancer can win a figh or stalemate Jane foster with Mjolnir.

3. Star's cant die, and star's have infinite pressure inside of them, so since it's impossible and star's have no limits, then this is infinite.

end of debate.

EDIT: as mind Numbing as the first 2 are, it's the last one i really want to focus on.

if something is made in a specific temperature and pressure, and then broken, then that's not a NLF. an NLF would be if mjolnir was forged in infinite heat and pressure, and Hela broke it, so that means Hela can break the living tribunal.

an NLF is using something on a level with "no shown limits" and taking it on a level many many times above what it has faced up against before, like DCEU doomsday's adapting.

there is a pressure used to make mjolnir, and hela must have overcome it or come close to shatter, the movie'll determine whether that's consistent.. that's not an NLF as it has no infinite element of mystery about it. that's just a very high level showing for a movie, a showing which you apparently can't (or refuse to) comprehend

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#171 Posted by del_torro (3747 posts) - - Show Bio

So, we have statements from both Thor and Odin in Thor 1 and 3 about mjolnirs origin and nature, and we have knowledge of the densities of metals found in the cores of dying stars.but all this doesn't matter, because if you're worthy, you can tell the hammer to melt and it would obey.

So we can't take Odin and Thor saying the hammer was forged in a dying star as, but we have to accept when an handbook says that DCEU superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun.

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#172 Posted by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

If it has potential do it it will.

What?

Star's dies.

http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/mission/219-Dying-Stars

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/hubble-sees-a-dying-stars-final-moments/

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#173 Edited by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

So, we have statements from both Thor and Odin in Thor 1 and 3 about mjolnirs origin and nature, and we have knowledge of the densities of metals found in the cores of dying stars.but all this doesn't matter, because if you're worthy, you can tell the hammer to melt and it would obey.

So we can't take Odin and Thor saying the hammer was forged in a dying star as, but we have to accept when an handbook says that DCEU superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun.

lmao

@battle123axe:

If it has potential do it it will. what exactly are you talking about? are you telling me that 616 cap can shatter mjolnir whenever he likes?

What?

Star's dies.

http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/mission/219-Dying-Stars

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/hubble-sees-a-dying-stars-final-moments/

then why the hell is it an nlf? if it was forged in a star before it went supernova, what element of infinity is there?

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#174 Edited by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: if 616 mjolnir has that potential it will do what the wielder says .

It's NLF coz of this.

http://literarydwarfs.blogspot.in/2013/07/forged-in-heart-of-dying-star.html?m=1

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#175 Posted by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@del_torro: "we have knowledge of the densities of metals found in the cores of dying stars"

What's the density of dying star's core ?

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#176 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: if 616 mjolnir has that potential it will do what the wielder says . none of the mjolnir's "have that potential", so that makes your point moot

It's NLF coz of this.

http://literarydwarfs.blogspot.in/2013/07/forged-in-heart-of-dying-star.html?m=1

lol so first we're using science to explain comics where people can go faster than light and the hulk gains mass from nowhere, then you link me an article that still doesn't disprove what i said as there is not infinite power involved, and finally you're using a guy that uses the actual norse myths for proof, myths where thor is short and has a red beard.

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#177 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (16630 posts) - - Show Bio

When Ragnarok comes out, CV will be lit.

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#178 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@del_torro: "we have knowledge of the densities of metals found in the cores of dying stars"

What's the density of dying star's core ?

a white dwarf has a density of

1 x 109 kg/m3

red giant (also a dying star) has a density of

1,000 tons/m3

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#179 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio
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#180 Edited by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#181 Edited by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

"none of the mjolnir's have that potential " u mean to getting destroyed by it's wielder ?

Dying star core are mostly made of helium which doesn't have any metal.

a white dwarf has a density of 1 x 10^9 kg/m3 - it's not a dying star it's one of the new generation caused after the death of star.

red giant (also a dying star) has a density of 1,000 tons/m3 - u do know that it's made of helium core !

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#183 Posted by hulkuberstomp (1791 posts) - - Show Bio
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#184 Posted by deactivated-5a0c8d423f980 (1863 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm almost certain that Hela will be no threat to Diana.

She looks to hardly be in the film, and Thor looks like he's been reduced to a street level character in the movie. When Justice League comes out it will become likely a landslide victory for Diana, Hela will probably be fodder.

The MCU has shown that it's high tiers aren't going to be all that strong, but that's ok. I hate that these threads become places where angry MCU fans blow these characters way up, and DC fans beat them back down in an endless train of toxicity.

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#185 Posted by js_the_beast (936 posts) - - Show Bio
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#186 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: do not think that his hammer weights that much

you're missing the point entirely. in the mcu and 616 universe, it's not about weight, it's about odin's enchantment on it. it's made of a material that can withstand temperatures and pressures at the core of star's, and to lift it without being worthy, you have to be able to overpower the enchantment placed on it by odin, or odin himself. that's why as you said, it can balance on a table without breaking it, but people like cap, iron man and war machine, hawkeye, and the hulk in the MCU, and in the 616 universe, the hulk again, and almost everybody under the sun, can't lift it, even though they can certainly lift more than a table.

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#187 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

"none of the mjolnir's have that potential " u mean to getting destroyed by it's wielder ? show me any wielder of mjolnir apart from hela or possibly odin who has made it do whatever they want. show me a wielder of mjolnir who has turned it into soup.

Dying star core are mostly made of helium which doesn't have any metal. metal has nothing to do with density. mjolnir can survive temperatures and pressures millions of times that found on earth, and hela shattered it. not a hard concept here.

a white dwarf has a density of 1 x 10^9 kg/m3 - it's not a dying star it's one of the new generation caused after the death of star. osmium is the densest element on earth. star's cores are literally dozens of times denser than this, and have millions of times more temperature and pressure.

red giant (also a dying star) has a density of 1,000 tons/m3 - u do know that it's made of helium core !that doesn't matter. what about the temperature and pressure mjolnir tanked and hela overcame to shatter it? this is 3rd grade logic bud.

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#188 Edited by Arcus1 (27817 posts) - - Show Bio

I highly doubt that Hela crushing Mjolnir is a feat of just physical strength, that would make her ridiculously strong. I'm guessing it'll have something to do with other magical abilities (along the lines of how Odin was able to control Mjolnir and take Thor's power away), and while I haven't gone looking for spoilers, the things I've read here would seem to suggest something along those lines

That being said, she does appear to be very strong (stronger than Thor) and a very skilled warrior. I can see her potentially beating Diana, but in JL Diana's gonna get more feats of her fighting at full power, which will probably shift things back in her favor. Probably gonna end up being a great fight to debate

@agencyagent34 said:

I'm almost certain that Hela will be no threat to Diana.

She looks to hardly be in the film, and Thor looks like he's been reduced to a street level character in the movie. When Justice League comes out it will become likely a landslide victory for Diana, Hela will probably be fodder.

The MCU has shown that it's high tiers aren't going to be all that strong, but that's ok. I hate that these threads become places where angry MCU fans blow these characters way up, and DC fans beat them back down in an endless train of toxicity.

Thor's gonna goe toe to toe with Hulk, that alone shows he's above street level. Based on what we've seen so far, doesn't look like he's really weaker than in other movies, he just doesn't have Mjolnir (but he'll develop other lightning powers, so we'll see where that puts him). Trailer scenes of him fighting Hulk seem comparable to what we saw in Avengers (Hulk's got greater raw power, but Thor's strong enough to hold his own and is a better fighter to help compensate)

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#189 Posted by del_torro (3747 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I don't think Ragnarok will program them as Street levelers. The trailers alone has Thor and Valkyrie throwing people miles away like toys, and jumping large distances easily. The other Thor movies never showed anything like that for Asgardians.

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#190 Posted by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

mjolnir did what the wielder wants within it's POTENTIAL unless u have any feats of mjolnir disobeying it's command within it's POTENTIAL I am not buying ur crap story.

" FORGED IN THE HEART OF DYING STAR "

Only dying star that exist in universe is red giant and red supergiants which has helium and carbon at it's core.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26756/whats-the-difference-between-a-red-giant-and-a-red-supergiant

At it's death the core has only iron since it can't be fused.

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast122/lectures/lec18.html

A dying star can't produce more than iron.

http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-steel-and-titanium/

Elements above iron are created by supernova which is the death of star not by dying star.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

3rd grade logic =/= science .

The Sun's core is made of 98% helium and hydrogen which is under the pressure and temperature of 250 billion atmospheres and 27 million degrees Fahrenheit.

Where helium or hydrogen has no durability to block anything.

So stop using 3rd grade logic as a facts.

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#191 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

mjolnir did what the wielder wants within it's POTENTIAL unless u have any feats of mjolnir disobeying it's command within it's POTENTIAL I am not buying ur crap story.

" FORGED IN THE HEART OF DYING STAR "

Only dying star that exist in universe is red giant and red supergiants which has helium and carbon at it's core.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26756/whats-the-difference-between-a-red-giant-and-a-red-supergiant

At it's death the core has only iron since it can't be fused.

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast122/lectures/lec18.html

A dying star can't produce more than iron.

http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-steel-and-titanium/

Elements above iron are created by supernova which is the death of star not by dying star.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

3rd grade logic =/= science .

The Sun's core is made of 98% helium and hydrogen which is under the pressure and temperature of 250 billion atmospheres and 27 million degrees Fahrenheit.

Where helium or hydrogen has no durability to block anything.

So stop using 3rd grade logic as a facts.

lol you know a star's core temperature and pressure doesn't change as a red giant? so mjolnir survived this:

The Sun's core is made of 98% helium and hydrogen which is under the pressure and temperature of 250 billion atmospheres and 27 million degrees Fahrenheit.

and hela overcame that to break it

3rd grade logic

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#192 Posted by APEX_pretador (21016 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: Mjolnir will obviously obey whatever a worthy person tells it to do, whether it is self destruct or one-shot Doomsday and Superman

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#193 Posted by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio
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#194 Posted by del_torro (3747 posts) - - Show Bio

@APEX_pretador: Yes, but can Mjolnir make an Irish Coffee cocktail if the wielder commands it?

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#195 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio
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#196 Posted by JBob (373 posts) - - Show Bio

Hela, Diana defeating professor Lupin gets blown out of proportions on the vine.

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#197 Edited by APEX_pretador (21016 posts) - - Show Bio

@APEX_pretador: Yes, but can Mjolnir make an Irish Coffee cocktail if the wielder commands it?

If the weilder is hela, then yes

But can Mjolnir steal speed?

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#198 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Sigh.

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#199 Posted by Battle123axe (9056 posts) - - Show Bio

@del_torro said:

@APEX_pretador: Yes, but can Mjolnir make an Irish Coffee cocktail if the wielder commands it?

If the weilder is hela, then yes

But can Mjolnir steal speed?

woah there, let's not go too far

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#200 Posted by APEX_pretador (21016 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: I apologize. I went too far

I should'e asked if it can out-prep Batman