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#51 Posted by deltahuman (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Its best to do this after Ragnarok officially comes out. I mean some people have seen it but for everybody to univocally agree with the feats, everybody has to see the movie.

*Warning Spoilers Ahead. Don't read if you don't wanna know stuff about Thor Ragnarok*

I had gone through the leaked plot a couple of days ago. Seems like Hela's basic power set is superhuman strength greater than Thor and she can conjure weapons? swords and stuff anytime, anywhere, any amount. Mjolnir Crushing feat seems to have context behind it, or not. Can't say now. Apparently Hela wielded Mjolnir before Thor was born. She was a superior warrior even to Thor, the best in Asgard but had a bloodthirst or something so banished by Odin. Mjolnir has already been confirmed to be made of elements from the core of a dying star. They probably mean a neutron star. Black Dwarfs and White Dwarfs won't have such dense and durable elements. It remains to be seen if she crushed Mjolnir by virtue of her strength or by some sort of influence over it like Odin. It's also revealed that Hela draws power from Asgard itself, so it could be influence over Mjolnir. But if it's her strength doing the work and if you assume Mjolnir to be made of Neutron Star material then that's a massive.. an unbelievable strength feat. She'd be able to literally crush anything in her hands. Neutron Star material is unbelievably dense and strong. Diana perhaps won't be able to deal with that kinda strength. She can deal with Hela's weapons in God mode though. She has this shield thing around her that disintegrates any projectile thrown towards her.

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#52 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7251 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour: To be fair the Frost Giants and dark elves should be comparable to Asgardians so they should be at least subsonic around casual arrow timing and Thor's hammer has blitzed both groups.

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#53 Edited by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: based on what exactly? they don't exactly fight faster than any human. i would say at most subsonic, peak humans can casually time arrows and that doesn't make them at least subsonic.

the problem so far with these guys is that they don't fight any faster than the person performing the stunts (or ahow any indication thereof)

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#54 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7251 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour: Loki catching an arrow and Sif deflecting a fire lance which is a precursor to guns. Also casually timing arrow does in fact make you subsonic in reactions at least.

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#55 Posted by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: how does that make them at least subsonic? none of these was point blank, they were dealing with residual energy, hell look how far loki was from hawkeye

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#56 Posted by Mutant1230 (6639 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Because QS, both the one in Avengers and the one in the X-Men, and the Flash and pretty much every speedster that can also move at normal speeds, all of them have the ability to speed up and slow down their own perception of the world around him in accordance to how fast they are moving, otherwise he would constantly be seeing every moving object as slowmoving statues, he'd never be able to have a conversation with anyone because everyone is just groaning at him and he in return would simply be talking gibberish on fast forwards.

All well & good except for the fact WE KNOW he was in motion and moving as fast as he can during that scene to take out The Avengers. No amount of ands, ifs or buts changes that. Him recognizing Thor's hammer moving at that speed irregardless of using his powers is most definitely a feat. Once again, overcomplicating.

As for Mjolnir, we know that in the ship it's not going at supersonic speeds, because when it did break the soundbarrier in Dark World it formed that little cloud around itself when it did, same as it happens with jets and Superman. That little cloud did not appear here. Also I would question why Thor would even throw it with such force unless he actually intended to kill QS with it, not to mention he had no problems killing Chitauri along with Ultron bots with a casual throw.

Flash doesn't "break" the sound barrier when he runs at Mach 20 in the show, I guess those feats are illegitimate too. Who knew? :P

You can't just use flair and special effects (or lack therefor) to dismiss a feat. If it works via scaling, makes sense within the narrative, has no alternative explanations, that is by definition a legitimate feat. Just denying it because it doesn't look how it should in our world, while simultaneously failing to justify the Quicksilver situation gives me no incentive to back down on this theory.

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#57 Edited by NeoGX45 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

Mjolnir has never gone supersonic when Thor has actually thrown it at someone in battle. In all of Thor's appearances(4 movies, not counting Thor 3), Mjolnir has only ever gone supersonic twice. Once in Thor 1 and once in the TDW. On both of occasions, the hammer was either separated or returning to him(Thor 1). Further, we actually see visible Mach cones whenever it exceeds breaks the speed of sound

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#58 Posted by NeoGX45 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually, on that not note. Wouldn't Thor catching a supersonic Mjolnir technically count as a reaction feat?

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#59 Posted by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@neogx45: why can't people understand and admit this? they base their feats on wishful thinking rather than actual feats

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#60 Posted by BabyDarkseid (1907 posts) - - Show Bio

diana

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#61 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12195 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning Diana for now may change after I see the film

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#62 Posted by Mutant1230 (6639 posts) - - Show Bio

@neogx45 said:

Mjolnir has never gone supersonic when Thor has actually thrown it at someone in battle. In all of Thor's appearances(4 movies, not counting Thor 3), Mjolnir has only ever gone supersonic twice. Once in Thor 1 and once in the TDW. On both of occasions, the hammer was either separated or returning to him(Thor 1). Further, we actually see visible Mach cones whenever it exceeds breaks the speed of sound

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You guys can keep repeating this until the end of the world, Thor threw the hammer at Quicksilver. You don't see The Flash having "Mach cones" when he runs either, guess by your logic he must be below the speed of sounds too.

Not to mention the clips you're showing Mjolnir is going much faster than Supersonic. It's practically warp speed in The Dark World. Not saying that Thor could throw Mjolnir that fast, just that you're obviously comparing apples and oranges to dismiss a valid feat for no reason.

I'm not buying what you're selling.

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#63 Posted by Supermanforever (8541 posts) - - Show Bio

Havent seen the movie yet, by trailer looks like hela is stronger. But lets see the movie first.

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#64 Posted by Superhero24 (4766 posts) - - Show Bio

@neogx45:

Thor flying at supersonic speeds with mjolnir means he can throw it supersonic if not much faster, since he wouldn't have his weight on the hammer.

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Speed blitzing a superhuman before he reacts when you are 100 - 200 meters away is easily supersonic.

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Easily catching up to a quinjet which quinjets have shown supersonic to hypersonic speeds is extremely fast.

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Traveling to the where the warriors 3 were is also supersonic.

Then you have those instances when the hammer is separate from Thor, and the Quicksilver scene with Mjolnir as well.

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#65 Posted by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhero24: this seems like a case of you wanting them to be supersonic without actually providing definite proof or even indication of proof

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#66 Posted by macleen (3593 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhero24: the difference with the flash is that they didn't use sound barriers to indicate they are going past mach 1 but thor has two occasions where mjolnir breaks the sound barrier indicating it's going supersonic. Ironman also breaks the sound barrier when fighting those F-22 does it mean all his flights are supersonic? this clearly shows they are going subsonic.

if the queen jet was going supersonic wouldn't opening the hatch create havoc inside the jet.

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I'm not an pilot but can we know the speed which the jet was moving at?

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#67 Posted by destinyman75 (14732 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol DC wankers trying to get in there before the movie drops and there hopes dies away. On topic Hela easily Shea freaking death, and has far more then her own great fighting skills..can I just saynit.....duh....lol

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#68 Edited by thor321 (2000 posts) - - Show Bio

like the other guy said, this is again a thread about overrated omnipotent speed.

MCU Hela wins.

Comic Hela stomps.

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#69 Edited by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@destinyman75: its funny because you have no basis for anything in your comment

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#70 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

I love that people are still trying to apply real life logic to fictional visuals.

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#71 Edited by Breaking_Brads_Void (1061 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus H, Christ!!!!! Wonder Woman wank is cancer to this site. Just saw the movie, Hela freaking wrecks her overrated goddamn arse!! Speed isnt everything. It only plays in 1 factor. For those tho are spoilers free, if you want to know more about what Hel can do or what she did in the movie, feel free to PM me. Im just saying this now, even after the Justice League and many other DCEU flicks to come, Hela>>Wank Woman!

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#72 Posted by Superhero24 (4766 posts) - - Show Bio
@macleen said:

@superhero24: the difference with the flash is that they didn't use sound barriers to indicate they are going past mach 1 but thor has two occasions where mjolnir breaks the sound barrier indicating it's going supersonic. Ironman also breaks the sound barrier when fighting those F-22 does it mean all his flights are supersonic? this clearly shows they are going subsonic.

if the queen jet was going supersonic wouldn't opening the hatch create havoc inside the jet.

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I'm not an pilot but can we know the speed which the jet was moving at?

I am not sure what would happen with the jet opening the cargo doors at supersonic speeds, but it can go supersonic to hypersonic based off movies and tv shows. I'll see if I can find out.

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#73 Posted by Superhero24 (4766 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour:

In other words, you have nothing to prove what I said wrong and are just trying to ignore it.

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#74 Edited by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhero24: naa.....not really. just that none of that was supersonic, just because something looks fast doesn't mean its supersonic. thor possibly flying at supersonic speed has literally no correlation to throwing it.

Him blitzing malekith is still subsonic unless you can actually prove otherwise.

quinjets can go supersonic doesn't mean it always goes supersonic especially not in a storm plus there was no sonic boom present

again blitzing the beast is still subsonic.

you should probably check how fast a bullet goes in view and compare them to your claims.

see this lovely superfast stuff? its subsonic
see this lovely superfast stuff? its subsonic

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#75 Posted by del_torro (3743 posts) - - Show Bio
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#76 Edited by Superhero24 (4766 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhero24: naa.....not really. just that none of that was supersonic, just because something looks fast doesn't mean its supersonic. thor possibly flying at supersonic speed has literally no correlation to throwing it.

It really does correlate, because he throws it to fly.

Him blitzing malekith is still subsonic unless you can actually prove otherwise.

Even with human reaction speed, he would need to be supersonic to travel that distance before Malekith reacts. That is a fact. It is clear cut.

quinjets can go supersonic doesn't mean it always goes supersonic especially not in a storm plus there was no sonic boom present

Only issue here is it was traveling, before Thor was there. Sonic boom is not needed. The storm came in seconds before Thor landed on it, so that is not a good point at all.

again blitzing the beast is still subsonic.

Not when it seems he traveled to the end of the horizon which is as far as we can see looking straight ahead in the matter of seconds.

you should probably check how fast a bullet goes in view and compare them to your claims.

see this lovely superfast stuff? its subsonic
see this lovely superfast stuff? its subsonic
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You seem to have forgotten that movie speed isn't necessarily real life as we can track bullets in movies and see Cap's punches as regular human punches even though Iron man's visuals hub said he threw a punch with his 12 lb shield at 74.7 mph. Even DCEU does this often just not as much as MCU. You want your audience to see the fighting.

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#77 Posted by Amcu (16922 posts) - - Show Bio

Did Hela destroy Mjolnir with her pure strength? If she did she is a lot stronger than Wonder Woman and any other DCEU character.

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#78 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

Did Hela destroy Mjolnir with her pure strength? If she did she is a lot stronger than Wonder Woman and any other DCEU character.

i read a spoiler that shes worthy

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#79 Edited by Amcu (16922 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849: Well that's a surprise.

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#80 Posted by del_torro (3743 posts) - - Show Bio

@tj849: that doesn't have anything to do with crushing the hammer like wafers. Thor can't crush the hammer with his bare hands, it's a strength feat for Hela

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#81 Edited by Khael (15331 posts) - - Show Bio
Wonder Woman wins based on what I've seen.

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#82 Posted by NeoGX45 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

@neogx45:

Thor flying at supersonic speeds with mjolnir means he can throw it supersonic if not much faster, since he wouldn't have his weight on the hammer.

Speed blitzing a superhuman before he reacts when you are 100 - 200 meters away is easily supersonic.

Easily catching up to a quinjet which quinjets have shown supersonic to hypersonic speeds is extremely fast.

Traveling to the where the warriors 3 were is also supersonic.

Then you have those instances when the hammer is separate from Thor, and the Quicksilver scene with Mjolnir as well.

None of those gifs show him moving at supersonic speed. As for the quinjet, we have no idea how fast it was travelling at that moment. It could have been cruising.

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#83 Posted by NeoGX45 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

@neogx45 said:

Mjolnir has never gone supersonic when Thor has actually thrown it at someone in battle. In all of Thor's appearances(4 movies, not counting Thor 3), Mjolnir has only ever gone supersonic twice. Once in Thor 1 and once in the TDW. On both of occasions, the hammer was either separated or returning to him(Thor 1). Further, we actually see visible Mach cones whenever it exceeds breaks the speed of sound

You guys can keep repeating this until the end of the world, Thor threw the hammer at Quicksilver. You don't see The Flash having "Mach cones" when he runs either, guess by your logic he must be below the speed of sounds too.

Not to mention the clips you're showing Mjolnir is going much faster than Supersonic. It's practically warp speed in The Dark World. Not saying that Thor could throw Mjolnir that fast, just that you're obviously comparing apples and oranges to dismiss a valid feat for no reason.

I'm not buying what you're selling.

Flash having mach cones depends on the writer

How am I comparing apples and oranges. All I did was point out the only two instances in 4 movies where Mjolnir went above supersonic and the context

You don't have to buy it. It does not change the fact that Thor has never thrown the hammer at Mach speed and clearly did not throw it that fast at Hela in the clip

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#84 Posted by Amcu (16922 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually think Hela is more skilled based off of the trailers. She was soloing an Asgardian army, whereas I think(I could be forgetting) Diana's best skill feat is soloing a large group of WW1 soldiers. Hela should also be stronger considering she crushed Mjolnir. The problem for Hela is we don't know how durable or fast she is.

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#85 Posted by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (4055 posts) - - Show Bio

Hela crushes her like mjölnir

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#86 Posted by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhero24: no he doesn't throw it to fly. mjolnir probably manipulates gravitons, throwing it and hanging on to it while being latched onto his hand is a literally impossibility, the throwing thing was probably to jumpstart the flight stuff.

dude....its still subsonic, malekith didn't exactly show enhanced reaction speed. just because malekith couldn't react doesn't make thor supersonic.

lol.....if it was travelling supersonic, yea sonic boom is needed otherwise it wasn't and just because thor caught up to it doesn't make him supersonic, its not like we know where thor was travelling from or how long he was travelling.

like i've showed you, just because it looks fast doesn't make it supersonic, it wasn't very far actually cos we saw the warriors three run the distance in a few minutes and they didn't look any faster than a human.

except there is always an indication of said speed, see superman vs zod? there were sonic booms present indicating their speed, captain america's speed is like regular humans' because there has been no indication it was any faster than that unless you think baltroc is also faster or tony stark. yes you can track bullets but they also always have trails indicating their speed.

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#87 Posted by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@del_torro: we don't know exactly how durable mjolnir is, we have to compare her other strength feats to see how impressive it is. all we know is that mjolnir is more durable than thor

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#88 Edited by americanspeeddemon (7251 posts) - - Show Bio

I love how this thread has nearly 100 results and the movie hasn't even come out yet. Lol.

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#89 Posted by Gazool (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhero24: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't hela and Thor fighting while being teleported through the bifrost? Also from the previous movies, the teleportation beam travels ridiculously fast , like from Earth to Asgard in seconds. That alone gives her the speed edge to be fighting while moving at such high speeds.

It may have context , but that's what we've seen from the trailers and That's all we've to go by.

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#90 Edited by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon said:

I love how this thread has nearly 100 results and the movie hasn't even come out yet. Lol.

trust me lool

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#91 Edited by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@gazool: there's context.....the bifrost is a wormhole generator. it won't be practical for it to be a direct beam from asgard to earth, coulson said it opens below the ozone layer

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#92 Edited by Gazool (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour:

Bifrost has always been projected as beam in the movies.

Remember the famous lawn maintenance joke from Age of Ultron? How would a wormhole cause that?

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Both of these gifs and all the other times it has been used, it has been shown as a Beam.( Sorry if messy, done from phone).

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#93 Posted by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@gazool: its a wormhole generator. remember when loki fell? you see the bifrost warping the hole loki fell into. its a beam that warps space creating a wormhole (hence wormhole generator). plus the fact that it opens under the ozone layer confirms that

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#94 Posted by Mutant1230 (6639 posts) - - Show Bio

@neogx45 said:
@mutant1230 said:
@neogx45 said:

Mjolnir has never gone supersonic when Thor has actually thrown it at someone in battle. In all of Thor's appearances(4 movies, not counting Thor 3), Mjolnir has only ever gone supersonic twice. Once in Thor 1 and once in the TDW. On both of occasions, the hammer was either separated or returning to him(Thor 1). Further, we actually see visible Mach cones whenever it exceeds breaks the speed of sound

You guys can keep repeating this until the end of the world, Thor threw the hammer at Quicksilver. You don't see The Flash having "Mach cones" when he runs either, guess by your logic he must be below the speed of sounds too.

Not to mention the clips you're showing Mjolnir is going much faster than Supersonic. It's practically warp speed in The Dark World. Not saying that Thor could throw Mjolnir that fast, just that you're obviously comparing apples and oranges to dismiss a valid feat for no reason.

I'm not buying what you're selling.

Flash having mach cones depends on the writer

How am I comparing apples and oranges. All I did was point out the only two instances in 4 movies where Mjolnir went above supersonic and the context

You don't have to buy it. It does not change the fact that Thor has never thrown the hammer at Mach speed and clearly did not throw it that fast at Hela in the clip

Precisely. Why is Thor any different? There is no reason, the exact same logic you're literally using right here to justify Flash lacking Mach cones is the same reason Mjolnir has them on and off. Do you not see that?

Please re-read my comment, it's painfully obvious you didn't. Mjolnir was going above supersonic in this clips and only went Supersonic when it was thrown to Quicksilver in AoU. The gifs that I showed above and aren't going to post again here

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#95 Posted by Gazool (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour: That would really make no sense. Because not only are wormhole openings present inside event horizon of black holes but also have tremendous gravitational forces. That would make everyone traveling through them ridiculously durable.

Assuming it does open wormholes , it does also have particle nature ( beam like) as evident by the burning marks it leaves Everytime. So if it's a beam that opens wormholes , and to enter one you need to pass through a black hole and to maintain your path without bending in a Black hole, u have to be faster than light. So either way it is a ridiculous speed feat for her , almost to the point of being an outlier until we get to see the context behind it.

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#96 Edited by DammeFavour (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

@gazool: lol no. unless you think the same of jane and the police trunk that came along for the ride. think of the beam as a tractor beam. look at the first image you posted, the beam just appeared out of nowhere. why are you bringing up black holes again?

so essentially a tractor beam through a wormhole

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#97 Edited by Gazool (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour:

That's the reason I said it doesn't make any sense.

Because according to the "scientific American":

Wormhole openings are present inside the event horizon of black holes.

No Caption Provided

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#98 Edited by deltahuman (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

@gazool:

Wormholes and Blackholes are different things. A wormhole cannot exist naturally if you take into account real scinece. Wormholes are not natural. They are just solutions to Einstein's field equations. So they are theoritically possible if some intelligent civilization can create it.

Regarding the Bifrost and Yggdrasil, I read somewhere that in the MCU, the Yggdrasil constitutes a bunch of natural wormholes that connect nine different planets/planetoids which maybe in same galaxy or different galaxies. But its in the same universe as because Thor said we can see it through the Hubble telescope. The description of Bifrost as an Einstien-Rosen bridge is somewhat accurate in a sense that, even if wormholes exist, sending stuff through them isnt possible because the openings warp around themselves. to keep them open we need a theorotical susbtance called Exotic matter which has negative energy density. These kind of wormholes stabilized with Negative energy are called Scwarzchild wormholes or Einstien-Rosen Bridges. Given that Asgard is advanced than us, they might know how to make or use Exotic matter and thus Bifrost is possible. it also acts like a teleportation device that can send matter and energy across the interconnected wormholes in the Yggdrasil. That explains why both Bifrost and spaceships are in use for transport. Bifrost mainly deals with Yggdrasil and the associated nine realms. There are separate wormholes that connect different planets in different other star systems too like the one connecting Earth to Sakaar.

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#99 Posted by ParagonNate (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

Love the Diana hype and the Hela lowballing, even though the movie isn't even out yet. Also the assumption that because people think Thor is weaker than Diana then Hela must of course be weaker than Diana....cause y'know, who needs to see her feats if she loses to Thor, I mean everyone knows how slow he is.

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#100 Edited by Gazool (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

@deltahuman: I know. But the website said, if they were to occur, theoretically they would in the event horizon.

It may be what you say, but I guess that's the only thing that makes sense . Even though, u need a great amount of speed to travel through wormholes too.