DCEU Team vs FOX Silver Surfer & X-Men

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BabyDarkseid

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@theanalyser: why wouldnt magnetism and phoenix energy attacks make doomsday stronger?

kryptonite was the plot device to kill him otherwise he would be unkillable like the general said

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@gotexpert1: when was thor and magneto in the same universe?

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Theanalyser

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: fox surfer is also nlf since hes never faced anyone as powerful as doomsday so theres no feats showing surfer that he can manipulate someone on doomsdays level and general swanwick also stated doomsday is unkillable theres nothing surfer can do to but annoy doomsday

he literaly faced planet eater and one shotted it. He clearly had better powerset and durability that is enough to face doomsday. Not to mention his matter manipulation is just high tier hax.

He literaly would just reverse doomsday metamorphosis just like he did it to Dr doom.

durability feats for silver surfer?

To be honest he didn't do much during that terrible film

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macleen

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#154  Edited By macleen

@drpepperman said:

@macleen: he was going by live action only. And he calculated correctly how fast fox QS is.

It's called an outlier, SS consistently operates at the level he did.

lol no. he went from kansas to S.America in a few secs, went from london to metrop in a few secs, he save a bomb that had already been detonated and dropped it a several miles away, contained a nuclear explosion by flying around it, saved lois from burning in smallville while simultaneously catching the daily planet globe in metropolis. able to save lana from an already shot bullet while he was miles away. he had so many feats that some I have to rewatch the entire series to give you more.

so him tagging bullets as his best speed feat is lowbolling

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DrPepperMan

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macleen

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: fox surfer is also nlf since hes never faced anyone as powerful as doomsday so theres no feats showing surfer that he can manipulate someone on doomsdays level and general swanwick also stated doomsday is unkillable theres nothing surfer can do to but annoy doomsday

he literaly faced planet eater and one shotted it. He clearly had better powerset and durability that is enough to face doomsday. Not to mention his matter manipulation is just high tier hax.

He literaly would just reverse doomsday metamorphosis just like he did it to Dr doom.

durability feats for silver surfer?

To be honest he didn't do much during that terrible film

thats the problem, a lot of people who say fox stomps don't like facing the reality. their team is composed of glass canons that won't be able to hurt team two, all of them except QS will honestly get blitzed

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SupremeGeneration

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What did Surfer actually do? Most of his feats were off panel and he had a single combat situation...

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Supermanforever

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@supermanforever: i havent watched the movie in a long time so did silver surfer have no low showings? was he ever hurt or anything or was he just OP all throughout the whole film

literaly no. Nothing harmed him, with exception of the orion impulse which was sort of sending a frequency that matches the frequency of the board that cut his conection from the board. other than that nothing harmed. He also was knocked in the end when i sacrifised himself by putting all energy of the board in single attack to kill Galactus. But he woke up later.

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macleen

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#159  Edited By macleen

@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: i havent watched the movie in a long time so did silver surfer have no low showings? was he ever hurt or anything or was he just OP all throughout the whole film

literaly no. Nothing harmed him, with exception of the orion impulse which was sort of sending a frequency that matches the frequency of the board that cut his conection from the board. other than that nothing harmed. He also was knocked in the end when i sacrifised himself by putting all energy of the board in single attack to kill Galactus. But he woke up later.

we can only scale off doom when he was on the board i guess

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Supermanforever

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: fox surfer is also nlf since hes never faced anyone as powerful as doomsday so theres no feats showing surfer that he can manipulate someone on doomsdays level and general swanwick also stated doomsday is unkillable theres nothing surfer can do to but annoy doomsday

he literaly faced planet eater and one shotted it. He clearly had better powerset and durability that is enough to face doomsday. Not to mention his matter manipulation is just high tier hax.

He literaly would just reverse doomsday metamorphosis just like he did it to Dr doom.

durability feats for silver surfer?

To be honest he didn't do much during that terrible film

Even when completely drained from his own attack he survived his own attack that wiped Galactus. Torch released high amount of energy on doom that melted thick layers of steel with ridiculous ease didnt affect doom at all because of board protecting him.

The attack destroyed galactus with ease that was eating planets like saturn like dust in front of him.

and the blast wave was much bigger than earth itself.

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Supermanforever

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What did Surfer actually do? Most of his feats were off panel and he had a single combat situation...

Thats the thing he doesnt need destructive power to win this battle actually. I dont he can outmuscle doomsday or kryptonians. he just wins because of the hax like reversing mutation of doomsday lets say.

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Theanalyser

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#162  Edited By Theanalyser

@babydarkseid said:

@theanalyser: why wouldnt magnetism and phoenix energy attacks make doomsday stronger?

kryptonite was the plot device to kill him otherwise he would be unkillable like the general said

It was never stated he couldn't be defeated without kryptonite, batman stated that kryptonite was the only way they could kill doomsday. You can't adapt to a force that is magnetic, the only thing that saves doomsday here is his rapid healing, im not saying magneto will cause him damage he can't heal from, if magneto throws objects at him like he did with apocalypse, i agree that would make him stronger because that requires energy. Doomsday gets stronger through energy absorption, but no way in hell is he adapting to pure magnetism or phoenix's powers, phoenix's powers are meant to counter doomsday's in the first place, he can't counter magic, he has no feats to counter telepathy, and he certainly can't avoid phoenix's ability of disintegration.

All she has to do is rearrange his molecular structure and no more doomsday, given enough time

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deactivated-5a84a212043e5

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Spite, multiple members of the X-men Team can solo here.

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Supermanforever

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: i havent watched the movie in a long time so did silver surfer have no low showings? was he ever hurt or anything or was he just OP all throughout the whole film

literaly no. Nothing harmed him, with exception of the orion impulse which was sort of sending a frequency that matches the frequency of the board that cut his conection from the board. other than that nothing harmed. He also was knocked in the end when i sacrifised himself by putting all energy of the board in single attack to kill Galactus. But he woke up later.

we can only scale off doom when he was on the board i guess

Dont know what thats supposed to mean but they had zackshit on doom when he had the board. They punched him etc and thats fine. but surfer wont outmuscles those guys he will just hax on them.

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macleen

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@theanalyser said:
@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: fox surfer is also nlf since hes never faced anyone as powerful as doomsday so theres no feats showing surfer that he can manipulate someone on doomsdays level and general swanwick also stated doomsday is unkillable theres nothing surfer can do to but annoy doomsday

he literaly faced planet eater and one shotted it. He clearly had better powerset and durability that is enough to face doomsday. Not to mention his matter manipulation is just high tier hax.

He literaly would just reverse doomsday metamorphosis just like he did it to Dr doom.

durability feats for silver surfer?

To be honest he didn't do much during that terrible film

Even when completely drained from his own attack he survived his own attack that wiped Galactus. Torch released high amount of energy on doom that melted thick layers of steel with ridiculous ease didnt affect doom at all because of board protecting him.

The attack destroyed galactus with ease that was eating planets like saturn like dust in front of him.

and the blast wave was much bigger than earth itself.

i meant the part where johny wrapped around him and he couldn't escape, he had ben's strength, then he got knocked off the board with a crane, so i see one of the dceu guys punching him off the board. but this will depend on wether he goes intangible. problem with galactus is that he wasn't completely solid, that feat is like how a strong gust of wind would blow away smoke.

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macleen

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@babydarkseid said:

@theanalyser: why wouldnt magnetism and phoenix energy attacks make doomsday stronger?

kryptonite was the plot device to kill him otherwise he would be unkillable like the general said

It was never stated he couldn't be defeated without kryptonite, batman stated that kryptonite was the only way they could kill doomsday. You can't adapt to a force that is magnetic, the only thing that saves doomsday here is his rapid healing, im not saying magneto will cause him damage he can't heal from, if magneto throws objects at him like he did with apocalypse, i agree that would make him stronger because that requires energy. Doomsday gets stronger through energy absorption, but no way in hell is he adapting to pure magnetism or phoenix's powers, phoenix's powers are meant to counter doomsday's in the first place, he can't counter magic, he has no feats to counter telepathy, and he certainly can't avoid phoenix's ability of disintegration.

All she has to do is rearrange his molecular structure and no more doomsday, given enough time

there is no TP on fox team that is dropping dceu, she fails to rearrange molecular structures of durable objects how is he rearranging doomsday? mags needs to avoid getting blitzed first the think about doing damage to dceu guys which he is not. where is the magic in fox?

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macleen

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: i havent watched the movie in a long time so did silver surfer have no low showings? was he ever hurt or anything or was he just OP all throughout the whole film

literaly no. Nothing harmed him, with exception of the orion impulse which was sort of sending a frequency that matches the frequency of the board that cut his conection from the board. other than that nothing harmed. He also was knocked in the end when i sacrifised himself by putting all energy of the board in single attack to kill Galactus. But he woke up later.

we can only scale off doom when he was on the board i guess

Dont know what thats supposed to mean but they had zackshit on doom when he had the board. They punched him etc and thats fine. but surfer wont outmuscles those guys he will just hax on them.

watch the final fight where johny combines the powers of the four, he was able to restrain doom and the ben knocked him off his board with a crane

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BabyDarkseid

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@theanalyser: it was stated that he cant die hes unkillable but only batman stated that only kryptonite can kill it

i think doomsday can adapt to magic doomsday was still perfectly fine with the kryptonite spear stuck in him it didnt seem to phase him like it did to superman it wasnt until superman pushed the spear all the way through his body that he finally died

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Theanalyser

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#169  Edited By Theanalyser

@theanalyser: it was stated that he cant die hes unkillable but only batman stated that only kryptonite can kill it

i think doomsday can adapt to magic doomsday was still perfectly fine with the kryptonite spear stuck in him it didnt seem to phase him like it did to superman it wasnt until superman pushed the spear all the way through his body that he finally died

The guy can't adapt to magic however its not like magical attacks are strong enough to cause him serious harm, my main point however is that phoenix is more than capable of defeating him because of the fact that her powers allow her to manipulate and control the same genetic structure that doomsday has that allows him to adapt, the other x-men are there for support

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Theanalyser

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@macleen said:
@theanalyser said:
@babydarkseid said:

@theanalyser: why wouldnt magnetism and phoenix energy attacks make doomsday stronger?

kryptonite was the plot device to kill him otherwise he would be unkillable like the general said

It was never stated he couldn't be defeated without kryptonite, batman stated that kryptonite was the only way they could kill doomsday. You can't adapt to a force that is magnetic, the only thing that saves doomsday here is his rapid healing, im not saying magneto will cause him damage he can't heal from, if magneto throws objects at him like he did with apocalypse, i agree that would make him stronger because that requires energy. Doomsday gets stronger through energy absorption, but no way in hell is he adapting to pure magnetism or phoenix's powers, phoenix's powers are meant to counter doomsday's in the first place, he can't counter magic, he has no feats to counter telepathy, and he certainly can't avoid phoenix's ability of disintegration.

All she has to do is rearrange his molecular structure and no more doomsday, given enough time

there is no TP on fox team that is dropping dceu, she fails to rearrange molecular structures of durable objects how is he rearranging doomsday? mags needs to avoid getting blitzed first the think about doing damage to dceu guys which he is not. where is the magic in fox?

Fair enough, but should jean have the chance to launch a TP attack on doomsday you must acknowledge that he hasn't displayed anything on panel to counter it. Aside from that there's no reason why if shes not holding back why she can't tap into doomsday's genetic structure, she only has to concentrate hard enough for this to happen

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macleen

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@macleen said:
@theanalyser said:
@babydarkseid said:

@theanalyser: why wouldnt magnetism and phoenix energy attacks make doomsday stronger?

kryptonite was the plot device to kill him otherwise he would be unkillable like the general said

It was never stated he couldn't be defeated without kryptonite, batman stated that kryptonite was the only way they could kill doomsday. You can't adapt to a force that is magnetic, the only thing that saves doomsday here is his rapid healing, im not saying magneto will cause him damage he can't heal from, if magneto throws objects at him like he did with apocalypse, i agree that would make him stronger because that requires energy. Doomsday gets stronger through energy absorption, but no way in hell is he adapting to pure magnetism or phoenix's powers, phoenix's powers are meant to counter doomsday's in the first place, he can't counter magic, he has no feats to counter telepathy, and he certainly can't avoid phoenix's ability of disintegration.

All she has to do is rearrange his molecular structure and no more doomsday, given enough time

there is no TP on fox team that is dropping dceu, she fails to rearrange molecular structures of durable objects how is he rearranging doomsday? mags needs to avoid getting blitzed first the think about doing damage to dceu guys which he is not. where is the magic in fox?

Fair enough, but should jean have the chance to launch a TP attack on doomsday you must acknowledge that he hasn't displayed anything on panel to counter it. Aside from that there's no reason why if shes not holding back why she can't tap into doomsday's genetic structure, she only has to concentrate hard enough for this to happen

problem is jean especially the last stand has not done anything like that, and to actually do it in a battle that her opponents are just 10 ft away, some may open with HV, fists, decapitation makes it even more impossible

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PyroFN

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1) It’s a telepathic attack.

2) You’re basically repeating what I said about what no morals mean. And as for Jean, if they go all out crazy with no teamwork as you say, which is out of character for Diana and the op never stated she is crazy, only no moral, they will lose. Diana, Superman, Faora, etc. are all gonna be using their skills, not flailing about with heads cut off or destroying the environment. The only one who would do that in character is Doomsday. The only thing different is that they won’t hold back, their still gonna choose the most threatening target and collaborate.

3) You don’t get it. She has read information in someone’s mind before. The only times she has had to put her hand onto someone’s head was with those two who had amnesia.

4) My counter is super-speed does not equal super perception, or a faster thought process. That’s my counter. I’m asking at moment because I obviously didn’t catch it. You’re willing to tell me a play by play of how Jean fails in the most simplistic way possible, but you can’t do that with Superman and the other team? I don’t think I will be taking the soldier feat as evidence considering Jean has blocked a surprise hit from an optic blast from behind. Cuz like you said yourself, Jeans tk gives her that edge over normal human reaction and over their faster weapons.

5) ”How Long did it take for her to lift the house?” Note that my repeating your questions is not mocking, but rather where I am at and what this paragraph of the conversation is located. Seemingly, she didn’t start lifting the house until after she started lifting Charles. Objects were flying around her, but she didn’t start lifting the house in this clip until about the end of 0:42, in which it takes about two seconds for the house to lift then cuts to Logan being pinned with the rest of everyone. There are still a lot of variables to consider since we only see the top floor, don’t know if a car is present or if Jeans parents took it and weren’t destroyed when Jean arrived, and as to whether there was a backyard and anything in that hypothetical backyard. That said, she still did all that while battling the most powerful telepath to a standstill and killing him physically.

https://youtu.be/XeU6SJorcvw

6) The X2 feat was with her psychic inhibitors that Xavier put up, but damaged. Those didnt come down until either the end of X2 or sometime before The Last Dtand. Either way, she won’t be switching personalities in this fight. Addressed the Wolverine thing. She was indeed moving. She levitated up, destroyed the soldiers, turned briefly towards Logan (either in frustration or desperation), and destroyed everything around her as she was perching herself on top of a pile of rubble that gave her a view of the entire battlefield. Why she didn’t stay levitating only furthers my view that PIS was going on and that she was indeed holding back because she wanted Logan to kill her.

7) I reread my comment. Still don’t see what makes you want to know my age. Do you think I’m immature? If so, what gives you that impression? And I’m not debating in circles, I’m just not stubbornly withholding the position that Jean is this untouchable entity. I know her weaknesses and have been acknowledging them fully this entire argument, whether we agree that these weaknesses are openings is a different argument close to the subject at hand.

8) Like it or not, it is the canon classification we got and can go by vs our own interpretations, where you say Apocalypse is only pyramid level and Magneto can’t pierce him yet he is planetary vs his more consistent older counterpart who has actually yet to show any struggle in using his powers in the high end, such as when he lifted the bridge or started controlling the X-Jet from 20,000 ft and stopped it dead in its fall before it hit him and Mystique.

9) If I agree after arguing, it’s either me acknowledging the weakness but following up how they can get around it (or how it isn’t relevant) or it’s because you brought a good argument to the table that I can’t argue with. Reread some of arguments and you will see that.

10) My problem with the Kryptonians and others is that they’ve yet to show that they have that perception vs say the Flash or Quicksilver. I have already addressed the soldier feat. The bullets feat, are you speaking of the jets shooting at Superman? Is the warlord the one who held Lois at gun point?

11) Unless these Super speeders are always traveling at super speed, I’m not gonna by that their perception is any better than normal people. Why? Because unlike speedsters, super speeders don’t naturally operate at the level in the comics and when I look at live action, it is no different. The only times where it clearly shows that ability is when they do those time slowing down motions when the speeder in question is merely standing still, showing that even when not moving they can perceive their surroundings as such. Examples of this can be seen in Smallville, the Flash, Supergirl, and X-Men: Apocalypse.

12) We Don’t know the exact properties of the serum. Nor do we know if it is possible for a telepath to even break the control. The only thing we do know is that it leaves the person confused and a little amnesiac and that a telepath as powerful as Charles won’t be affected, yet Jason Stryker, the one who produces it from his spinal chord, could affect him with his powers after a time of creating hallucinations that could still be resisted if Charles sees a slight inconsistency. You can’t claim Jean Grey couldn’t have undid the mind control damage if she never tried. I’ve never claimed she could though, so that is redundant. Not to mention she was being pounded with the full force of an optic blast while still having trouble controlling Phoenix.

13) I guess I can look for them myself after you described them in detail, though I’m not sure if it will necessarily work as being named “Superman dodges Mach 3 bullets”.

14) I don’t know of any proof that Kryptonians are as strong as the strongest metal in the X-Universe, but I’m quite sure Jean never had the chance to try in the first place. No I don’t think she can affect adamantium, but I do think leaving his bones would surely keep him dead logically, unless they really want to stay faithful to the source material. Needless to say, we do see Magneto bending Wolverines metal Claws as an old man with no effort, so I highly doubt that bending it would be that hard for someone’s like Jean Grey.

15) Maybe. I never said that it would be a stomp by the way or that she solos. Because of the amount of people they have that are Superman level, I cannot honestly say she can take them all at once, ergo why I’m betting on the others to deal with them as well to lighten her load.

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Supermanforever

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#173  Edited By Supermanforever

@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: i havent watched the movie in a long time so did silver surfer have no low showings? was he ever hurt or anything or was he just OP all throughout the whole film

literaly no. Nothing harmed him, with exception of the orion impulse which was sort of sending a frequency that matches the frequency of the board that cut his conection from the board. other than that nothing harmed. He also was knocked in the end when i sacrifised himself by putting all energy of the board in single attack to kill Galactus. But he woke up later.

we can only scale off doom when he was on the board i guess

Dont know what thats supposed to mean but they had zackshit on doom when he had the board. They punched him etc and thats fine. but surfer wont outmuscles those guys he will just hax on them.

watch the final fight where johny combines the powers of the four, he was able to restrain doom and the ben knocked him off his board with a crane

He didnt restrain him, he foulded him couple of seconds and released heat which destroyed the panel that was making him able to control the board and then yeah. Besides doom has not shown any level of control of the board as surfer has shown. Surfer was literaly becoming the board itself, manipulating the matter around the board.

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Supermanforever

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@theanalyser said:
@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: fox surfer is also nlf since hes never faced anyone as powerful as doomsday so theres no feats showing surfer that he can manipulate someone on doomsdays level and general swanwick also stated doomsday is unkillable theres nothing surfer can do to but annoy doomsday

he literaly faced planet eater and one shotted it. He clearly had better powerset and durability that is enough to face doomsday. Not to mention his matter manipulation is just high tier hax.

He literaly would just reverse doomsday metamorphosis just like he did it to Dr doom.

durability feats for silver surfer?

To be honest he didn't do much during that terrible film

Even when completely drained from his own attack he survived his own attack that wiped Galactus. Torch released high amount of energy on doom that melted thick layers of steel with ridiculous ease didnt affect doom at all because of board protecting him.

The attack destroyed galactus with ease that was eating planets like saturn like dust in front of him.

and the blast wave was much bigger than earth itself.

i meant the part where johny wrapped around him and he couldn't escape, he had ben's strength, then he got knocked off the board with a crane, so i see one of the dceu guys punching him off the board. but this will depend on wether he goes intangible. problem with galactus is that he wasn't completely solid, that feat is like how a strong gust of wind would blow away smoke.

He was knocked after control panel was burned by johnnys heat. He could restrain doom because he had combined power of fantastic four and he was turning invisible to the eye and then after he wrapped him it took couple seconds to to destroy the control panel he had built and the board fell of. Aswell as Doom didnt show as much hax abilities with the board as surfer did. And i mentioned about ten thousand times in this post already that surfer is not winning in physical brawl. i said he wins because he has nice hax. and his energy blast would probably kill them aswell because they dont have feats to the level of Surfers final blast.

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killers10333

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#175  Edited By killers10333

@babydarkseid: youre bringing up characters who arent in this battle

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Mooty_Pass

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What were Surfer feats again???

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BobLeGod

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@supermanforever:

I'd like to know how Surfers final blast is even relevant. For one that blast took over 20 seconds to charge up and is very skeptical because we don't know how powerful that blast was nor do we have any history of Galactus durability. And if it only took 20 seconds for him to not he a slave and free then why didn't he do that a long time ago? Is it because galactus was weak? Some sort of cosmic complexity?

Either way, he's not getting 20 seconds to sit there and charge up like that. This isn't DBZ. He's getting knocked on his ass. The most he's going to be able to get out is blast like he did to Doom which here could take easily or just dodge it.

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@babydarkseid: for example you mentioned mcu quicksilver when fox quicksilver is the one in this battle

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PyroFN

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@boblegod: Or he’ll phase through his opponents like he did multiple times throughout the movie.

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BobLeGod

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@pyrofn:

What is that going to do? I dont even think he ever even phased through his opponents "multiple times throughout the movie". The only times he ever phased was when he was in a chase and didn't want to take the long route, and through walls basically. He did absorb a missle which was cool and all but who is to say he has the reaction to do that against any of these heroes besides Doomaday who wouldn't even fit in that board.

Surfer has about 0 durability feats himself and the only reference is Dr. Doom with the board who was getting tossed around by the things strength. He gets knocked off the board or even better knocked out until we see actual durability feats besides getting shocked by a seemingly weakened Dr. Doom which is still irrelevant.

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PyroFN

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@boblegod: He has phased through Sues shields before, proving matter isn’t the only thing that he can phase through.

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@pyrofn:

You said he phased through his opponents. And this still falls the walls type thing.

Does Silver Surfer constantly phase MID BATTLE? Does Silver Surfer constantly stay phased during battle? Does Silver Surfer have the reaction time to even phase before he gets blitzed and knocked out which he hasn't no durability feats to suggest he can take the initial hit and then phase for the next incoming hit.

The team destroys everyone here besides Quicksilver who I believe will eventually go down. And even if he doesn't go down doesn't that still count as a loss by numbers?

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TheSpartanB345T

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@citizensurfer: theres nothing to show that they dont have planetary durability especially doomsday and superman

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Nothing proves that anyone on FOX team ISN'T universal in power.

So they stomp.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@apex_pretador: wait till justice league comes out the flash will most likely be faster than qs

No Caption Provided

Flash isn't in the thread.

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#186  Edited By PyroFN

@boblegod: Good points, though do they go on a high speed chase against him, Id suspect him to go through many things and go for a flank or something. Nonetheless, I concede.

What can you bring to prove that their perception is above normal humanity where they will take down Jean Grey? Also, Apocalypse isn’t going down in one punch.

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BobLeGod

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#187  Edited By BobLeGod

@pyrofn:

Why would they need faster perception to take on Jean Grey? We see that Wonder Woman sees bullets in slow motion but then again I wouldn't waste my time defending her against the disintegration because although she can take blunt force trauma she can't take pierce damage so I can't entirely know for sure. BUT Superman has caught a grenade launcher and fought Zod at super sonic speeds and was able to follow the punches. The same goes for the rest of the Kryptonians who should all be able to survive Jeans attack.

And why isn't apocalypse going down in one punch? The most durability he shows was himself getting tossed around by Quicksilver who has no real feats to suggest it's on anyone's striking level besides Wonder Woman who is the weakest striker because of a lack of feats. Yeah he took getting impaled but so can Wolverine. And Wolverine was go to sleep like NyQuil if Zod punches him in the face. As far as I'm concerned he's getting one shot like everyone else

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macleen

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@pyrofn said:

@boblegod: Good points, though do they go on a high speed chase against him, Id suspect him to go through many things and go for a flank or something. Nonetheless, I concede.

What can you bring to prove that their perception is above normal humanity where they will take down Jean Grey? Also, Apocalypse isn’t going down in one punch.

because dceu team has done things that consistently wouldn't be possible for normal humans and even a few enhanced humans. like wonderwoman casually deflecting bullets, when she was pissed easily blitzed several humans, superman and zod fought at supersonic speeds, also superman blitzing a human and fellow kryptonians, nam ek easily breaking the sound barrier when he took down that A-10, faora blitzing soldiers etc. apoc hasn't really been punched by guys who with a casual open palm tap can send human in mech suit 30m away. another open palm strike sends one a mile away and deraling train engines, he has never been punched by someone who could cause shock-waves with their punches, so yeah judging apocs showings on durability there is nothing that suggests he is tanking one

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macleen

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@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@macleen said:
@supermanforever said:
@babydarkseid said:

@supermanforever: i havent watched the movie in a long time so did silver surfer have no low showings? was he ever hurt or anything or was he just OP all throughout the whole film

literaly no. Nothing harmed him, with exception of the orion impulse which was sort of sending a frequency that matches the frequency of the board that cut his conection from the board. other than that nothing harmed. He also was knocked in the end when i sacrifised himself by putting all energy of the board in single attack to kill Galactus. But he woke up later.

we can only scale off doom when he was on the board i guess

Dont know what thats supposed to mean but they had zackshit on doom when he had the board. They punched him etc and thats fine. but surfer wont outmuscles those guys he will just hax on them.

watch the final fight where johny combines the powers of the four, he was able to restrain doom and the ben knocked him off his board with a crane

He didnt restrain him, he foulded him couple of seconds and released heat which destroyed the panel that was making him able to control the board and then yeah. Besides doom has not shown any level of control of the board as surfer has shown. Surfer was literaly becoming the board itself, manipulating the matter around the board.

maybe not but he has better combat feats that surfer with the board

Loading Video...

those are probably the best surfer's feats. and you can see that last blast was against a smoke and dust galactus, even the shockwave failed to move the earth, and the time taken to charge it. he will have to avoid two above reentry speeds fliers for him to do it and going into space still won't help because they would follow and that's assuming he could outran them

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macleen

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#190  Edited By macleen

@pyrofn: ok mate I'm gonna answer you one last more time

1) It’s a telepathic attack.

a telepathic attack that didn't do anything. what is jean gonna do to doomsday, remember he doesn't even have a name, superman called it that thing. so jean is gonna whisper "thing, thing..." and expect it to drop on its knees and scream. Like I said jean is no xavier so when you say a telepathic attack people are gonna remember charles' feat because jeaan had none, she isn't an established telepath.

2) You’re basically repeating what I said about what no morals mean. And as for Jean, if they go all out crazy with no teamwork as you say, which is out of character for Diana and the op never stated she is crazy, only no moral, they will lose. Diana, Superman, Faora, etc. are all gonna be using their skills, not flailing about with heads cut off or destroying the environment. The only one who would do that in character is Doomsday. The only thing different is that they won’t hold back, their still gonna choose the most threatening target and collaborate.

lol you are mistaking bloodlust from morals off, blood lust is where they would go crazy and destroy everything in sight. this is morals off, it means superman and diana(only) who don't kill won't have a problem with killing. so what would be their best way to kill team 1, blitz fist, blitz decapitate, HV. the rest of the team are morals off by default. one is bloodlusted in character. and the OP never specified team work, even if they did. it's 6 vs 5, there isn't enough targets to go around, and there are those who have the potential to take more than one target, and one of the fox team member is a nonfactor increasing the probability for jean to get picked. SO JEAN IS GONNA GET PICKED EITHER WAY. even if they don't they will still reach her eventually and she has nothing to defend herself against them

3) You don’t get it. She has read information in someone’s mind before. The only times she has had to put her hand onto someone’s head was with those two who had amnesia.

I know she has, I even said she reads surface thoughts and needs to put her hands on their heads to read deeper memories, your point? is she gonna put her hands on doomsday's head? what would reading team2 surface thoughts help her do in battle?

4) My counter is super-speed does not equal super perception, or a faster thought process. That’s my counter. I’m asking at moment because I obviously didn’t catch it. You’re willing to tell me a play by play of how Jean fails in the most simplistic way possible, but you can’t do that with Superman and the other team? I don’t think I will be taking the soldier feat as evidence considering Jean has blocked a surprise hit from an optic blast from behind. Cuz like you said yourself, Jeans tk gives her that edge over normal human reaction and over their faster weapons.

you can't have one without the other, otherwise you will end up slamming into everything every time you use it. is that really hard to understand? that wasn't a surprised hit, Logan saw them, you and I have agreed jean reads mind. she did it to a sneaking scott why wouldn't she be able to do it to several soldier walking with boots. she knew the attack was coming before hand, how fast were the optic blast anyway because logan also blocked them wit his claws in origins. I never said anything like that read my post, I said there was nothing that proves she has better perception than normal humans, she is only quicker to the draw due to TK not faster perception wise.

5) ”How Long did it take for her to lift the house?” Note that my repeating your questions is not mocking, but rather where I am at and what this paragraph of the conversation is located. Seemingly, she didn’t start lifting the house until after she started lifting Charles. Objects were flying around her, but she didn’t start lifting the house in this clip until about the end of 0:42, in which it takes about two seconds for the house to lift then cuts to Logan being pinned with the rest of everyone. There are still a lot of variables to consider since we only see the top floor, don’t know if a car is present or if Jeans parents took it and weren’t destroyed when Jean arrived, and as to whether there was a backyard and anything in that hypothetical backyard. That said, she still did all that while battling the most powerful telepath to a standstill and killing him physically.

she wasn't battling charles, she was completely on the defensive and had to resort to TK and killing charles to win. you can even hear charles saying let me in. and once again I ask you how is lifting that wooden house going to help her in this fight? they didn't battle to a stand still, she killed him. we don't know what would happen if she hadn't resorted to killing charles

6) The X2 feat was with her psychic inhibitors that Xavier put up, but damaged. Those didnt come down until either the end of X2 or sometime before The Last Dtand. Either way, she won’t be switching personalities in this fight. Addressed the Wolverine thing. She was indeed moving. She levitated up, destroyed the soldiers, turned briefly towards Logan (either in frustration or desperation), and destroyed everything around her as she was perching herself on top of a pile of rubble that gave her a view of the entire battlefield. Why she didn’t stay levitating only furthers my view that PIS was going on and that she was indeed holding back because she wanted Logan to kill her.

you're completely missing the point, are you? point 1: her powers have a history of failing, fluctuating, and malfunctioning,if that is PIS the all those incidences would also be PIS. she wasn't holding back she has never held back when is came to stop anyone or anything from killing them or weakening them. you can clearly see her redirecting her disintegration at logan to the point where she staggers and pushes him back, he even resorted to raising his hands to block another wave of that power and when he reached her she asked him if he would die for them( meaning she was going for the kill) I even asked you if you think logan would survive if he didn't have a healing factor and adamantium bones and you said no, so why are we still debating this?

7) I reread my comment. Still don’t see what makes you want to know my age. Do you think I’m immature? If so, what gives you that impression? And I’m not debating in circles, I’m just not stubbornly withholding the position that Jean is this untouchable entity. I know her weaknesses and have been acknowledging them fully this entire argument, whether we agree that these weaknesses are openings is a different argument close to the subject at hand.

this post

8) Ok, I see what you’re getting at. My bad. To answer accordingly, that weakness would only depend on the person in question. Like I have pointed out, Jean has shown greater feats then when Logan came and stabbed her in spite of her constant destroying his skin. Unless she were to fall in love or have any care for the DCEU members, the scenario seems unlikely.

8) Like it or not, it is the canon classification we got and can go by vs our own interpretations, where you say Apocalypse is only pyramid level and Magneto can’t pierce him yet he is planetary vs his more consistent older counterpart who has actually yet to show any struggle in using his powers in the high end, such as when he lifted the bridge or started controlling the X-Jet from 20,000 ft and stopped it dead in its fall before it hit him and Mystique.

???

9) If I agree after arguing, it’s either me acknowledging the weakness but following up how they can get around it (or how it isn’t relevant) or it’s because you brought a good argument to the table that I can’t argue with. Reread some of arguments and you will see that.

OK

10) My problem with the Kryptonians and others is that they’ve yet to show that they have that perception vs say the Flash or Quicksilver. I have already addressed the soldier feat. The bullets feat, are you speaking of the jets shooting at Superman? Is the warlord the one who held Lois at gun point?

I thought those were the feats I used. can you give me any humans in both fox and dceu universe that can replicate them

11) Unless these Super speeders are always traveling at super speed, I’m not gonna by that their perception is any better than normal people. Why? Because unlike speedsters, super speeders don’t naturally operate at the level in the comics and when I look at live action, it is no different. The only times where it clearly shows that ability is when they do those time slowing down motions when the speeder in question is merely standing still, showing that even when not moving they can perceive their surroundings as such. Examples of this can be seen in Smallville, the Flash, Supergirl, and X-Men: Apocalypse.

any speed feats for jean?

12) We Don’t know the exact properties of the serum. Nor do we know if it is possible for a telepath to even break the control. The only thing we do know is that it leaves the person confused and a little amnesiac and that a telepath as powerful as Charles won’t be affected, yet Jason Stryker, the one who produces it from his spinal chord, could affect him with his powers after a time of creating hallucinations that could still be resisted if Charles sees a slight inconsistency. You can’t claim Jean Grey couldn’t have undid the mind control damage if she never tried. I’ve never claimed she could though, so that is redundant. Not to mention she was being pounded with the full force of an optic blast while still having trouble controlling Phoenix.

I thought you said jean was an expert with amnesiacs? she didn't have trouble controlling the phoenix, she had trouble blocking the blast that the phoenix had to take over to help her

13) I guess I can look for them myself after you described them in detail, though I’m not sure if it will necessarily work as being named “Superman dodges Mach 3 bullets”.

watch the smallville fight

14) I don’t know of any proof that Kryptonians are as strong as the strongest metal in the X-Universe, but I’m quite sure Jean never had the chance to try in the first place. No I don’t think she can affect adamantium, but I do think leaving his bones would surely keep him dead logically, unless they really want to stay faithful to the source material. Needless to say, we do see Magneto bending Wolverines metal Claws as an old man with no effort, so I highly doubt that bending it would be that hard for someone’s like Jean Grey.

no one said kryptonians are as strong as the strongest metal in the universe. but adamantium and kryptonian skin have one thing in common. no human made weapon or machine can pierce them, adamantium had bullets bouncing off, so did K-skin, and K-skin also has other feats like been unscathed by a nuclear blast, surviving in space, doomsday AOE that disintegrated concrete and steel, heat resistance. kryptonite and magic being the exceptions, same as adamantium being affected by another adamantium with sufficient force.

so you agree she can't affect adamantium. mags controls metal so he could bend them but he lacks the strength to go further, and how would jean bend adamantium if she fails to stop logan from moving, mags did.

15) Maybe. I never said that it would be a stomp by the way or that she solos. Because of the amount of people they have that are Superman level, I cannot honestly say she can take them all at once, ergo why I’m betting on the others to deal with them as well to lighten her load.

the problem with the others is that, two of them have human durability, one can only ran away, another has virtually 0 durability feats, and she can't rely on them because she will have a problem of her own. even if they give her time, what is she gonna do? whisper in their heads until the kneel?

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Khael

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Team DCEU.

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CitizenSurfer

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#192  Edited By CitizenSurfer

@tj849 said:

@citizensurfer: You're acting as if the Silver Surfer has god level power. In the movie all he did was produce a crap ton of enviromental attacks.

  • He flew to 3 separate solar systems in the span of seconds:
No Caption Provided
  • He is capable of manipulating the weather/temperature wherever he went.
No Caption Provided
  • He is capable of causing city wide blackouts:
No Caption Provided
  • He is capable of phasing matter matter in order to allow himself access through it:
No Caption Provided
  • His attacks work on the subatomic level, as evident when he blasted Doom and you can quite obviously see that Doom was being "warped".
No Caption Provided
  • As mentioned previously, Silver Surfer's blasts work on the subatomic level; this was confirmed by Reed earlier on in the film:
"Not even the mysterious transformation of matter on the subatomic level"

But lets move on to the "holes" Silver Surfer put into the ground:

No Caption Provided

It's hard to see but if you look to the right of the picture you can see the outer mantle of the planet.

Based on the in-movie projected images of the damage Surfer caused, it seems to look like a cone, and not the usual cylinder shape that we usually see from the actual craters.

Since the depth of the crust is usually said to be around 70km (other sources say 100km, but it wouldn't affect the calc regardless), and the diameter of the crater is stated to be 200m

No Caption Provided

I used that info to pixel scale the depth of Surfer's crater, which I found to be 37.15km.

No Caption Provided

The following calculation will give us the volume:

Since Reed's projections show a cone, let's do that first.

( V = 1/3 * π * r² * h)

R = 100 (1/2 of 200)

H = 37.15km

V = 3.8903389E+14cm^3

As a cylinder, since that's what we're shown on-screen:

( V = π * r² * h)

R = 100

H = 37.15km

V = 4.33578271E+17cm^3

I thought I can either calculate it as vaporisation, as he creates a very clean hole through the Earth with no signs of fragmentation or dust

No Caption Provided

3.8903389E+14cm^3(5.403e13) = 21,010,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules of energy.

Credit to UMR for the calculations.

That is greater than the estimate of the energy released by the impact that created the Caloris basin on Mercury

Now that doesn't sound impressive and I'll be honest, I though the same thing.

But here's another number for you, the energy required to create "holes" that large and that deep is 350.1666666666666667x greater than the average energy output of a solar flare.

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tj849

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#193  Edited By tj849

@citizensurfer: You've won. Congrats (first battle i've conceded). Doomsday cant even tag Norrin lmao. Nice analysis tho. Could still be stalemate buts thats unlikely.

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deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99

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People talk about speedblitz as if QS couldn't just move all of his team out of the way.

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BabyDarkseid

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still dceu

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macleen

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People talk about speedblitz as if QS couldn't just move all of his team out of the way.

how long can he keep doing that?

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deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99

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@macleen: Long enough for his team to kill everyone.

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macleen

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#199  Edited By macleen

@macleen: Long enough for his team to kill everyone.

how are they killing team two, for them to do that QS has to slow down and allow them to perceive the fight. and you forget team two has superman who has telescopic, superhearing, and Xray they are not hiding anywhere so, since zod is also adapted i can see him also doing the same. it will be a game of cat and mouse and since they are both morals off I can see one of the guys in team 1 getting pissed at QS and just kill him for delaying the fight,

PS: is running allowed? does it make it a win for team2

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deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99

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@macleen: QS doesn't have to slow down. He just needs to keep moving his team away from the enemy's attacks.

Not that it matters, since he can solo now that I think about it. Surfer too, quite easily.