DCEU Superman vs Senator Armstrong

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Neoburrito

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Armstrong low diff

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Vegito315

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Armstrong one shots Fodderman

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Crapser

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#53  Edited By Crapser
@eredin12 said:
¨Steven hits with more force than that Nuke actually , while Superman was killed by small fraction of that Nuke in space, where Nuke are much weaker, and with only fraction that actually hit him, DD absorbed the most of it. To prove that, here Armstrong punched ground so hard that millions of tons of lava came to the surface from hundreds of miles bellow , in just seconds:¨

I also played the game, but at no point it is explained like that, well, it wasn't explained at all. Anyways, that would be just an assumption, and a bad one at that, in Metal Gear, Raiden produces electricity, Quiet can become invisible, and there is that dude who controlled wasps, there's also the fact that he can do that also in Sam's DLC, but it was done in top of a Building, which didn't explode or collapse, and even so, you can see Armstrong enhancing his physical attacks with that energy in the battle multiple times, heck, he does it at the start of the clip above. So yeah, he isn't making lava or magma come out of deep in the Earth, probably just some form of energy or heat manipulation.

''He also destroyed Metal Gear with just shockwave of his punch, without direct contact, as punch landed on Raiden, not on Metal gear''

No Caption Provided

Same MG which was heavily damaged before Armstrong and Raiden fought on top of it, in the MG Excelsius Boss Fight, Raiden cutted 2 of it's Arms, and ripped one, with which he sort of had a Sword Fight? with the Metal Gear, also, he cutted and make explode a huge chunk of the Metal Gear, so Armstrong making it explode (not even completely, you can see that there still are huge chunks of Excelsius intact) isn't nuke level, tough that do is superior to DCEU's Superman striking strenght feats, as he moved quite a lot of it with that punch.

''Metal Gears are build to survive Nuclear Wars.''

It would be a pretty cool feat if it was explicitly said as able to survive point blank nukes, but it wasn't, and being built to survive Nuclear Wars isn't only less explicit, but could also mean the effects of the Nuke (radiation, electromagnetic interruptions, shock waves, and heat), so even if he did One Shotted it, it would most likely still not be Nuke Level.

''Raiden did hurt him later though, with just his punches, which makes sense, seeing as Sam, who is about as strong as Raiden, can split Metal Gears in half with just air pressure if his swings, this much force would one shot Clark, who is not more durable than Metal Gears:''

No Caption Provided

Yeah, except that the Murasama and Any HF Blade just ignores durability; Its metallic structure strengthened by an alternating current, this blade resonates such that it weakens the particle bonds of whatever it cuts. Its effectiveness is further boosted in Blade Mode, which consumed energy but enables high-speed attacks. Customized by Doktor to absorb fuel-cell electrolytes from its victims. Which means that that feat required no Strenght, but rather skill, which Sam has a lot of. Also, if you mean that he hurted him with his punches here, he sort of did, he punched parts of his body which weren't completely covered in NanoMachines (the red-ish ones), and he also punched him in his non-nanomachine enhanced face, and he somehow survived, maybe because he played ball in the university of Texas or something

''Clark should not be able to hurt Armstrong true, but Armstrong can easily one shot Clark.''

Nah, Steven ain't one shoting Supes, but he do should win the match due to speed advantage

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Tmight

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Superman for sure, even if he holds back

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kaijuking

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Armstrong wins. The regen is major factor. Strength and speed similar. I argue Armstrong is a better fighter given his preformance vs Sam and Raiden. He use to play Ivy League Football Son!

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Crapser

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@eredin12:

Lot of feats are not rally " explained" though, they are simply shown, and beyond that, not much is wasted on talking about them again. Same is case here, he is just that strong . I agree that powers character has usually are explained, but specific feats within those established powers? Not so much, after all, there is no need to waste time on it.

Ye but saying that it is lava from below the ground is kind of a wild assumption, anyways, how high do you rate that if you think that it allows him to one shot DCEU Superman?

Armstrong does not have energy or heat manipulation. Quiet/ Skulls can indeed turn invisible, but that is explained in the game, same is with Pain and wasps control or End and photosynthesis , that was all explained by the Code Talker In Metal Gear 5 to be result of parasites in their body. While no " fire /heat" control was ever even implied with Senator and it would not make any sense, he is not Psychic like Mantis after all, they can control fire. When it comes to Senator, his powers are science based, from nano machines, which give him superhuman stats and ability to control machines to an extant, including powering himself from them, that is all.

I mean, he does have non-explained or explicitly mentioned powers, as in, being able to re-attach his limbs and his ability to summon the light of allah to heal himself.

No Caption Provided

That energy you see around his arm is same as Raiden having blue lightning around him and Sam red one, it does not amp them, they do not control electricity, neither one is Zeus/Thor who uses lightning in combat, it is simply cool effect sort of thing that is symbolic of their character same is here with Senator.

Actually, Raiden does have the ability to manipulate electricity, and Sam himself isn't the one who produces the Red Electricity, but the Murasama, as seen here when he unseathens the Murasama, and in-game when he attacks the same red electricity and energy is produced. So it doesn't seem to be something simply symbolic or a cool effect. There's also the fact that he activates the Nanomachines by absorbing energy, as seen here and here. So he does have some sort of energy manipulation.

Reason that building was not destroyed or damaged is fact that if it was, there would be no battlefield, not to mention it would be Incredibly hard to animate it , hence how even in Raiden fight, which was not on building, instantly after lava erupts from ground,, holes from which it did, are instantly repaired / gone for that same reason. Same is with Sam fight example. But that was Lava, we can see and hear it, it even sounds like Lava, and Senator has no lava manipulation, it is simply it erupting from deep under earth because of force of his punch

Besides the fact that it can be energy/heat manipulation as I explained above, I do still want to know how strong do you consider those strikes, as you say that it allows Armstrong to one-shot him.

If it ignored durability, then it would cut Senator instantly right? Yet it did not, they do not ignore durability, rather they weaken molecular structure on contact as you mentioned bellow , but here there was no contact, this was done by simply force of the air pressure of the swing, blade itself did not hit Metal Gear in order to weaken its molecules

It does ignore durability, the reason why Armstrong was the exception is explicitly due to his Nanomachines since they ''harden in response to physical trauma'', it is also seen that the Murasama is actually able to ignore his durability when the Nanomachines aren't in the specific place which is being cut, not to mention that Doktor says that him being able to breake an HF blade with his bare hands defies modern physics, which is why Raiden defeating him by wearing him out, as given enough time, his Nanomachines will stop hardening due to lack of energy. Even then, you can in fact see Sam cutting M.G Ray by swinging the Murasama from back to front, so it wasn't air pressure.

Thing is all of his body is amped by no machines, not just when that black armor thing appears, hence how he consistently tanks punches from Raiden in those areas as well.

Except, he didn't tank those punches as good, earlier we had the iconic scene which shows the difference between fully Nanomachine-Enhanced Armstrong and when he's not covering entirely. Though it doesn't matter, as I already showed that Sam didn't cut the M.G with air pressure.

Ever our own weapons can survive all of that though , it referring to that would not make sense, not to mention Otacon said this when Snake specifically asked him what it would take to get pass its armor, which weapon, so him refering to stuff like radiation/ heat would not make sense, as Snake does not use that type of weapons, his weapon are force/ kinetic energy based. Further more Senator one shotted it with just shockwave, which is much weaker than punch itself.

It wouldn't make sense for a Metal Gear to come unscathed from a point-blank nuke, as Snake managed to damage REX’s radome using Stinger missiles, and it was even briefly immobilized by those..

Which feats does Superman have to allow him to not be one shotted?

Mostly when his body wasn't evaporated by a point-blank nuclear blast, although he was pretty much dead after it, this means that actually a nuke wasn't ridicolously above what is necessary to kill Superman.

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Vegito315

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Armstrong solos the entire fodder verse with ease since no one is above nuke level

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heiqn

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Armstrong claps

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Crapser

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#62  Edited By Crapser

@eredin12:

It could not be assumption, wild or otherwise, if we see with our own eyes and hear sound it makes with our own ears, which then tells us that it is lava, Mountain level i would say but he you can one shot Superman with much less energy than that

Mountain level? That seems quite high to me, is there something specific that makes you think that? At most it would be 70 to 200 km (40 to 120 miles) below the surface of Earth. There, in Earth’s upper mantle, temperatures are high enough to melt rock and form magma, I don't know what kind of quantification makes you think that's Mountain level, but I guess it's possible so I'll see what you have to say about it.

Those are not un explained though, we have seen him several times, in cutscenes itself , summoning energy to heal himself , to charge himself up, that is what his nonomachines allow him. Same is with healing

It's still unexplained, yes, he's done it before, but it's still something without any real explanation, They explain how the Skull Units can become invisible, they explain how Volgin can store energy, but they don't explain more than one of the Senator's ability.

On a very low level, see how much it took him to charge that up to disable one fodder? He never even uses it in Rising either, i was talking about cool effect he has at times when running, jumping and fighting, it is only used for cinematic purposes. Senator himself though, does have ability to absorb energy to charge himself up, but not only we have no reason to think he can make energy come from the ground like that, but we see with our eyes that it actually liquid substance. Heat itself you see, has no shape or form, it is merely property of temperature, energy can have heat on the other hand, but energy cannot be in liquid form.

Besides the fact that Raiden using electricity is actually literal and it being ''low level'' doesn't mean anything, It looks like you haven't seen one of the links I posted either, as Armstrong clearly manipulates energy to lift multiple helicopters and tanks to absorb their energy, then he makes them explode. Other than that, it may be that the energy is liquidizing the rocks due to the heat it has, the fact that Armstrong can be seen charging up the energy of the punch also makes me think so. I still want to see what makes you think that it's Mountain level.

Right, they harden, and their hardness was such that it was not able to cut through them, meaning they do not simply ignore durability. They were never even stated to, what they were said to do is" weaken molecular structures of what they hit", that is not quite same as ignoring them, or even destroying them. It is merely weakening them. Sam on the other hand, as you said, is able to cut him before his nano machines shiled/ skin fully cover him, before they harden

It is explained to us in a Codec that the nanomachines make Armstrong's entire body work like clay, so I doubt that it is just that he is very hard, not to mention that Doktor who is an expert in the subject says that it defies modern physics in general, and the biggest issue is that weakening the molecular bonds of things is practically like cutting through air because they can't put up any resistance against the HF Blade, so you can't just "resist" the cut, as the Frequency of the blade makes it so that that the molecular bonds cannot oppose resistance on contact with it.

Actually not, if you look close you see that there was no point of contact between him and MGR, further more, you see in the first image that size of cut itself in relation to size of metal gear, is much bigger than Sam himself, thus he could not physically have made such cut, only air pressure of his hit could cover that area. So yes, he very much cut it with air pressure

In fact, yes, you can see the contact between the Musama and M.G Ray going frame by frame, the cut was made from back to front, and you can see how sparks come out of the sword hitting Ray.

The thing about the cut being much bigger than the blade would be valid if it didn't happen TOO MANY times by Raiden's sword, against Ray, against Excelsius, and other times against enemies In-Game. So it does not seem feasible to me that it is due to air pressure, but rather a general characteristic of the HF Blades, those cut WAY MORE than their wide and length several times.

There's also against Monsoon's giant ball of destruction and Helicopters/Vehicles, perhaps the air pressure also ignores it's own way of existance and cuts through something on the other side of a Solid Object while doing a sliding motion? Yeah, i didn't think so.

Snake specifically attacked its weak spot, even then, he did nothing really to it, it was about to crush him before Fox saved him

This makes even less sense, since the weak point would be absolutely obliterated by a point-blank nuke if it was affected even in the slightiest by Stinger Missiles. Gray Fox was also able to finish destroying the radome with his weapon, so Snake could not be far from doing considerable damage to MG Rex's radome with the missiles. A nuclear bomb has millions, even billions of times more power than a Stinger Missile, so the Radome would have been completely destroyed by a nuke at point blank range, and the entire Metal Gear would have been shattered as a side effect as we saw in it's boss form. So it doesn't seem logical, consistent or reasonable to me to think that Rex or any Metal Gear could just take a nuke at point blank range

What you need to kill Superman, is much, much more than what you need to put him in coma/ knock him out. He was hit by only small fraction of Nuke, that DD did not absorb, in the the space, and he was still pretty much dead before sun healed him up, that in no way allows him not to be one shot by Senator

Well, there is also his World Engine feat, where he resists the gravitational beam, which in addition was also weakening him. He was at the epicenter of the Gravity beam which flattened a City Block area instantly, and then proceeded to overpower and destroy the machine with his flight.

Anyway, I do think that Armstrong can beat Superman, but he's not going to just kill him in a single punch.

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Edgicide

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#64  Edited By Edgicide

@eredin12:

😂😂 Revengeance is one of my favorite games but even I know this is a pile of horse shit

Armstrong is able to gather energy and release it as fire which is why he can create those fire attacks

No Caption Provided

They never go into too much detail on Armstrong's nanomachines but you can clearly see him charging his fist before he hits the ground, he's generating the fire himself, not the bullshit you made up 😂😂

Metal Gears are build to survive Nuclear Wars.

There has never, ever, EVER been any statement that a Metal Gear can survive a nuke, again stop making shit up

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Edgicide

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#65  Edited By Edgicide
@kreigastartis said:

@eredin12: isn't top speed for Raiden like Mach 22 based on the respect thread? Sorry if I am asking to many question I am not familiar with Superman or the scaling for the good ol senator

No, not even close

Loading Video...

6:22 you can clearly see these missiles zipping right past Raiden who's running for dear life to escape a collapsing bridge

Raiden's running and movement speed are slower than mach 1

The Metal Gear dick rider is in full force on this thread

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red_ruby_petal

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@crapser: Regarding H/F blades if I was following your debate correctly.

There should be a lot more strength that comes behind those strikes than you may think. Its really not the fact that H/F blades ignore durability at all. Its known to be able to weaken things. That is why the concept of the game when fighting certain enemies revolves around Raiden weakening their armor first before he can really start cutting them. Its a damage over time kind of mechanic as opposed to ignoring durability. Sundowner had to get gashed first before being completely cut down by Raiden. So I think Armstrong was a case of, you can't really weaken his nanomachines because they strengthen as a complete reaction, to where the solution was trying to damage him before he could use his nanomachines, which we saw in Sam's fight.

So the fact that they've been able to do those feats like cutting huge sized objects, especially Metal Gears in one go has a lot of testament to their skill, speed and strength all together, and not just the blade's properties. I do want to back up that the concept of cutting things way beyond blade's length has only been shown in Rising even when the H/F blade has existed way back. I recall correctly that the same concept of molecular weakening or something similar was said in previous Metal Gear games. Its likely air pressure honestly, and Rising has been known to flex its characters striking cutting power quite a lot.




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Crapser

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@red_ruby_petal: Although I can see where you're coming from, it doesn't take away the fact that Excelsius and Ray's cuts are physically impossible, since air pressure just cannot travel through a solid object if the object which creates the air pressure is sliding so slowly, so it does seem that HF Blades being able to cut more than their width and wide do is a characteristic rather than a demonstration of cutting power.

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red_ruby_petal

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@crapser said:

@red_ruby_petal: Although I can see where you're coming from, it doesn't take away the fact that Excelsius and Ray's cuts are physically impossible, since air pressure just cannot travel through a solid object if the object which creates the air pressure is sliding so slowly, so it does seem that HF Blades being able to cut more than their width and wide do is a characteristic rather than a demonstration of cutting power.

Every other time he's cut beyond blades length, he's always done it with extremely fast and clean strikes with almost no resistance behind it. I don't think his blade travelled slower than what he cut at all.

Can you clarify what you mean if you don't mind.

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CryoLancer47

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Going with the beloved America icon.

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Arexi

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Armstrong stomps