DCEU Superman vs Fox Dark Phoenix

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TheVVitchKing

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Fight stipulations

1. To the death

2. No holding back

3. Fighting to the best of their abilities

4. They have no time to prepare

5. They have no prior knowledge

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BalancedTruth

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Superman stomps

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Oraculi

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Superman stomps

Phoenix planet busts his booty hole

get wreked

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nightgate

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...

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deactivated-5e37510e25a10

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Superman likely loses

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BalancedTruth

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Oraculi

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@balancedtruth: then she skullbusts him and bootybusts him at the same time.

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InFrontOff

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#8  Edited By InFrontOff

Jean use telepathy control clark commit suicide.

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Gazool

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Jean puts him to sleep

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GeorgeWBush

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Jean stomps

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Soratoumiga

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Jean statues him.

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Oraculi

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Xanman2000

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Clark one-shots, Jean is a glass cannon.

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Oraculi

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Clark one-shots, Jean is a glass cannon.

Jean one-shots, Clark is a glass cannon to Jean's powers.

get rekt

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deactivated-5d28a8d99844a

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Jean slaughters him as she should

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KingJupeter

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Ready_4_Madness

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Oraculi

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dami24434

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jean

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Richubs

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@soratoumiga:

She probably does given she can even react to Quicksilver.

Then she TP's him to tear his own ass apart.

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Soratoumiga

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Karma is a bitch, ngl.

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TheSpartanB345T

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Jean reacted to Quicksilver, no? She stomps.

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ProfessorRespect

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Superman win

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Oraculi

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ProfessorRespect

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Oraculi

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I love Superman so much, I don't even have to explain why he wins!

Ohhh okay buddy.

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ProfessorRespect

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@oraculi: Strawman doesn't really count as a argument.....

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Oraculi

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ProfessorRespect

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@oraculi: I've already said who wins tho

you didn't even give a reason apart from jokes and strange comments? I'm not sure how you can use those standards for me when you don't follow them?

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Oraculi

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@diarrhearegatta: I did give a reason, post 3 try to keep up..

Now what's your reason?

Or is it just cause you're a fanboy and never had one?

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EternalDarkFury

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I havent even seen the movie yet buti. Pretty sure Jean will stomp.

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ProfessorRespect

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#32  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@oraculi: No, unless you think Phoenix will bust his bum in the fight? Would anyone rational call that a legit reason?

Also, I'm pretty much the opposite of a fanboy considering I've argued against Superman more times than I can remember. I mean, some people have even called me a MCU fanboy for it in the past? That's a bit of a ad hominem there.

Anyway, Clark can just bullrush, unless Phoenix has feats showing it can take abuse like that and not be knocked out or killed or consistent feats (as in, more than once) of it reacting to a force as fast or faster than him multiple times.

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Oraculi

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@diarrhearegatta: Yeah cause a planet busting attack will destroy his bum, wouldn't it?

Clark isn't fast enough for a Bullrush, Phoenix reacted to Quicksilver and her tk shield allows her to deflect things which will include superman and since it's not tanking but DEFLECTING it will work just fine.

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ProfessorRespect

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#34  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@oraculi said:

@diarrhearegatta: Yeah cause a planet busting attack will destroy his bum, wouldn't it?

Why would Phoenix bust a planet randomly in this fight? and so early as well? Did she do that in the movie?

Clark isn't fast enough for a Bullrush, Phoenix reacted to Quicksilver

Cool, but a consistent feat or physical stat (like reflexes, strength, etc) is one that is performed multiple times. Has Phoenix consistently tagged people at Quicksilver speeds or near those speeds, or has she been tagged by forces slower than him? If so, this is not a consistent stat to use. Galactus or Odin being called omnipotent once isn't enough to suggest he is. That's not how it works.

and her tk shield allows her to deflect things which will include superman and since it's not tanking but DEFLECTING it will work just fine.

Feats showing she's used this in combat to deflect objects going at FTE+ speeds or more from someone or something multiple times? I also really need to see proof that she can deflect something of that force as well, and if her reflexes would be fast enough to pick up him before she got hit.

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Rijehu

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#35  Edited By Rijehu

@oraculi said:
@soratoumiga said:

Jean statues him.

Shortly before mind raping him or TK'g him apart. My Fanyboyism will not save Clark here.

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BalancedTruth

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BalancedTruth

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@oraculi: booty busts?

What on earth have you been eating for breakfast bud fruit loops?

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Oraculi

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#38  Edited By Oraculi

@diarrhearegatta: 1) OP said they're fighting at their full potential and not holding back, Jean was holding back in the film so she gets to planet bust

2) By that logic the same can be said about Superman who got repeatedly tagged by Batman's traps and him before he got hit by Krptonite, if you want to play whose more inconsistent that would be Superman

3) Her TK lifted a train and deflected bullets, Superman weights at most 200/300 pounds so he's going to get ragdolled away every time he tries to bull rush her like Quicksilver

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ProfessorRespect

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#39  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@oraculi said:

@diarrhearegatta: 1) OP said they're fighting at their full potential and not holding back, Jean was holding back in the film so she gets to planet bust

Has she planet busted? Does she have the potential to do so? If yes, where are the statements/feats to say so? I'm rather curious.

2) By that logic the same can be said about Superman who got repeatedly tagged by Batman's traps and him before he got hit by Krptonite, if you want to play whose more inconsistent that would be Superman

You mean where Superman wasn't trying to really fight the guy, and consistently telling him that he didn't want to even engage with him? This is pretty obvious context going into the fight- Clark doesn't want to fight Batman, but the latter wants to kill him. Clark even states that he could have killed Batman in the middle of the fight but he doesn't do this.

Also, I'm seeing a bit of double standards, considering you say that Jean is fighting at her best and not holding back, but you don't seem to apply this to Clark, using a fight where he clearly wasn't wanting to fight seriously until he gets hit with Kryptonite, and by then, he's too weak to do much apart from a few strong comebacks.

3) Her TK lifted a train and deflected bullets, Superman weights at most 200/300 pounds so he's going to get ragdolled away every time he tries to bull rush her.

Clark's weight doesn't really matter- it's his speed and strength that are critical here. Can Jean deflect something as strong as Superman, who creates sonic booms in his punches alone, and creates shockwaves that damage a massive amount of skyscrapers? I don't think she can, based on what you have provided.

You've also not really answered any of my questions from my first response, which is a bit concerning.

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Oraculi

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No Caption Provided

@diarrhearegatta: 1) Phoenix force destroyed Shiar homeworld so she does have the feats now show me Superman tanking planet busting fire power

2) Superman holding back has nothing to do with him getting tagged, the only time Jean got tagged is when Professor X calmed her down other than that she never got tagged in combat so her speed/reflexes absolutely crushes Superman. There is no double standards here just you applying faulty logic of inconsistency while ignoring Superman's because you know Jean's feats absolutely crush Supermans.

3) Imo don't be wasting my time with this nonsense, Superman's speed and striking power has nothing to do with Jean's ability to deflect him away.

His strength can't interact with intangible tk and his speed is too slow to blitz her when her tk can deflect lighting from Storm and a blitzing Quick Silver.

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ProfessorRespect

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@oraculi said:
No Caption Provided

@diarrhearegatta: 1) Phoenix force destroyed Shiar homeworld so she does have the feats now show me Superman tanking planet busting fire power

Well, I need to know if Jean with the Phoenix destroyed the planet, or the Force itself did it. It's a impressive feat, but without context, it's not worth much.

Also, I'm not sure if she would suddenly use a planet busting attack right off the bat? Just because the character is "fighting to the best of their abilities" doesn't exactly mean they can just do OFC stuff.

2) Superman holding back has nothing to do with him getting tagged,

It does, actually. You notice he never really abuses his speed like in the Zod fight, or the Doomsday fight, or the Smallvile fight, or the JL fight, or the Steppenwolf fight.....

That's pretty much because he was holding back? I mean, he taps Batman once and he literally goes flying. A actual punch would likely do much, much more.

the only time Jean got tagged is when Professor X calmed her down other than that she never got tagged in combat so her speed/reflexes absolutely crushes Superman.

Again, Has Phoenix consistently tagged people at Quicksilver speeds or near those speeds, or has she been tagged by forces slower than him? Not being tagged by not exactly fast characters isn't going to prove anything, and tagging Quicksilver once is impressive, but she needs more feats around that level to say that she can move at that speed consistently.

There is no double standards here just you applying faulty logic of inconsistency while ignoring Superman's because you know Jean's feats absolutely crush Supermans.

Erm, I'm just saying that you say that Phoenix is at her best here, while using examples of Superman holding back in a single fight as a example of him being inconsistent, despite his speed being a major factor in every fight besides that one. That's pretty much a double standard.

3) Imo don't be wasting my time with this nonsense, Superman's speed and striking power has nothing to do with Jean's ability to deflect him away.

Having done research into TP or TK based attacks in the past, it is pretty much universally known that a person hitting hard enough can break a shield, or go fast enough to hit before the shield goes. That's like, a factor with any character with a shield.

His strength can't interact with intangible tk

See above.

and his speed is too slow to blitz her when her tk can deflect lighting from Storm and a blitzing Quick Silver.

Again, Lighting is fast, but erm, it's not as fast as Superman when he's moving as fast as he can. I've already addressed the Quicksilver instance, so I won't bother again.

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Oraculi

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@diarrhearegatta: Doesn't matter op said they're fighting to their best, she planet busts him she has no reason not to.

No it does't if Superman is always super fast he has no reason to get tagged if he does get tagged it either means he doesn't have the capability to be fast 24/7 or refuses to which in either case means he's too slow for Jean.

Doesn't matter op says they're at their best abilities which means this is Jean at her fastest which means she is speedblitzing Clark

Then you need to do more research, TK deflection is not the same as tk shields blocking

https://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-techniques/defense-techniques/how-to-parry-punches

Why Parry in Boxing?

In boxing, parrying is a beautiful defensive move that uses your opponent’s momentum against him. Parrying is a superior defensive move to blocking because it offers more protection while creating better counter opportunities using your opponent’s energy. The more your opponent overcommits into his punches, the more effective your parry will be. As you face stronger opponents, blocking becomes a less likely option. Blocking still absorbs partial damage whereas parrying can deflect the attack away entirely.

Parrying is superior to blocking, defensively AND offensively.

Parrying a punch allows you to defend against stronger punches, while setting you up for a better counter. Instead of absorbing your opponent’s power into your arm, you’re deflecting it elsewhere to make him off balanced and vulnerable. You’re also leaving your hands free to counter. Covering your face to block punches would have occupied your hands AND your vision.

After you’ve learned how to block punches, parrying becomes the next level of defensive skill.

Nope lol you just trying to ignore Jean's feats and downplay her because Superman at his best is still slower than Jean, she rekts

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ProfessorRespect

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@oraculi said:

@diarrhearegatta: Doesn't matter op said they're fighting to their best, she planet busts him she has no reason not to.

I've already explained that "fighting to the best" doesn't automatically mean that the characters do OOC actions. You've given me no context for that planet busting feat either.

No it does't if Superman is always super fast he has no reason to get tagged if he does get tagged it either means he doesn't have the capability to be fast 24/7 or refuses to which in either case means he's too slow for Jean.

Erm, this logic isn't very solid. If you look in every single fight Clark has been, he has abused his speed, if only to catch up with a foe as fast as him (Zod) or to abuse his advantage against a slower foe (Steppenwolf) It's clear that, as long as he is not holding back (in the case of Batman) he clearly uses it to the best of his ability.

Doesn't matter op says they're at their best abilities which means this is Jean at her fastest which means she is speedblitzing Clark

Based on that one feat? I've already explained that a character with one feat at a certain level literally means nothing when consistent actions are considered.

Then you need to do more research, TK deflection is not the same as tk shields blocking

https://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-techniques/defense-techniques/how-to-parry-punches

Why Parry in Boxing?

In boxing, parrying is a beautiful defensive move that uses your opponent’s momentum against him. Parrying is a superior defensive move to blocking because it offers more protection while creating better counter opportunities using your opponent’s energy. The more your opponent overcommits into his punches, the more effective your parry will be. As you face stronger opponents, blocking becomes a less likely option. Blocking still absorbs partial damage whereas parrying can deflect the attack away entirely.

>States that TK deflection is not the same as blocking and has sources to show it

>Uses a reference from boxing (?) which is a completely different ball game as both fighters are more or less equal in terms of stats, and the fact that this isn't a boxing match

Parrying is superior to blocking, defensively AND offensively.

Sure.

Parrying a punch allows you to defend against stronger punches, while setting you up for a better counter. Instead of absorbing your opponent’s power into your arm, you’re deflecting it elsewhere to make him off balanced and vulnerable. You’re also leaving your hands free to counter. Covering your face to block punches would have occupied your hands AND your vision.

After you’ve learned how to block punches, parrying becomes the next level of defensive skill.

Erm, this copy paste is fine and all, but Jean's not parrying with her hands, it's TK? You've also shown no feats to show that she can do this to someone as fast as Clark, apart from one feat above his level, and other feats that are below them (like, WW was knocking bullets away easily, and she couldn't be as fast as Clark was in their fight, and he was confused and had lost his memory at the time)

Nope lol you just trying to ignore Jean's feats and downplay her because Superman at his best is still slower than Jean, she rekts

I'm asking for context, and anyone worth their salt would easily explain that this is something that I have done with nearly all characters, even Superman wank itself. This attempt to attack my character as some crazed fanboy despite the fact that I really don't care about one verse over another, and the fact that I've defended characters from each universe just fine.

You haven't really backed up your claims apart from some faulty attempts to lowball Superman's speed, try and paint her speed as being Quicksilver level despite having only one feat at that level, and the multiple attempts to say that I'm bias in some way, which isn't very helpful.

It's been decent, but I think it's clear you don't know what you are really talking about here, based on your multiple responses and ignoring some of my questions in the process.

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BalancedTruth

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Yup Soopes stomps

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Aristeaus

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@oraculi said:

@diarrhearegatta: Doesn't matter op said they're fighting to their best, she planet busts him she has no reason not to.

No it does't if Superman is always super fast he has no reason to get tagged if he does get tagged it either means he doesn't have the capability to be fast 24/7 or refuses to which in either case means he's too slow for Jean.

Doesn't matter op says they're at their best abilities which means this is Jean at her fastest which means she is speedblitzing Clark

Then you need to do more research, TK deflection is not the same as tk shields blocking

Jean never used it to planet bust. Phoenix Force in a host is always weaker then otherwise. There is literally no reason to suggest she can do that. She did nothing even remotely on that level.

Hell, she didn't do anything we would consider even small town level. Wanking her to Planet busting is just... come on.

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deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

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Sups gets his ass kicked.

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ProfessorRespect

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#47  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@oraculi said:

@diarrhearegatta: Doesn't matter op said they're fighting to their best, she planet busts him she has no reason not to.

No it does't if Superman is always super fast he has no reason to get tagged if he does get tagged it either means he doesn't have the capability to be fast 24/7 or refuses to which in either case means he's too slow for Jean.

Doesn't matter op says they're at their best abilities which means this is Jean at her fastest which means she is speedblitzing Clark

Then you need to do more research, TK deflection is not the same as tk shields blocking

Jean never used it to planet bust. Phoenix Force in a host is always weaker then otherwise. There is literally no reason to suggest she can do that. She did nothing even remotely on that level.

Hell, she didn't do anything we would consider even small town level. Wanking her to Planet busting is just... come on.

So she can't planet bust with Jean as a host?

Well, thank you for giving me the context that the other person here seems to have either forgotten, or chosen to omit to make their argument look more credible. I'm glad to see some people have some transparency here.

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del_torro

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"Phoenix force in a host is always weaker"

False.

Yes, hosts may vary in amount of power, but Jean grey as Phoenix was never weaker except if she is restricting the power by herself. You going to tell me that white Phoenix of the crown, Dark Phoenix and Green Phoenix (without psychic inhibitors) were all weaker than the firebird of the force that gets knocked out Thor, or held back by unworthy Thor and Jane foster.

A host with the full Phoenix is already above planet busting casually.

-white Phoenix, Dark Phoenix, Thane Phoenix, Dark Phoenix cyclops

A host with half or just few fragments can still be above planet busting

-Rachel grey, Necrom

Jean grey is always praised as being the strongest host, so to assume that the she would be wouldn't be able to utilize its full power seems like reaching

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del_torro

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The fire bird isn't the natural Form of the Phoenix. The Phoenix is not supposed to be sentient and have a formal of its own. Just existing as a firebird in the normal plane is draining on the Phoenix.

The Phoenix naturally exists as a force, like gravity or the Power cosmic. A force made up of all the psionic energy in the universe, waiting to be channeled by a host.

Anyways, not sure why comic book Phoenix is being cited as a reason why movie Jean can't do something.

The power stone showed planet busting and moon busting in the hands of a celestial and Thanos. Ronan never planet or moon busted, does this mean he can't do it despite having the stone.

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