DCEU Superman and CW Supergirl vs MCU Ghost Rider and MCU Vision?

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FangDaNerd

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OP!

Morals off

Location: Gotham

Win via Death

Who wins?

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dorukesin1

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GR solos via Penance Stare

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RBT

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Either Kryptonian solos.

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Khael

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GR can possibly take Kara out due to her lame combat skill. But kryptonians still win

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Mutant1230

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@khael said:

GR can possibly take Kara out due to her lame combat skill. But kryptonians still win

Believe it or not, I agree with this. DCEU Superman outranks GR and Vision, and while I don't think Kara could take either of them her skills are still high tier, and will still give them enough time for Clark to swoop in a win.

That is... assuming Ghost Rider doesn't use his portal BFR. Not really sure how the Kryptonians could ever bypass that.

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king_majestros

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I'm thinking this battle was made in reaction to the Superman versus Vision battle. Morals off, Ghost Rider uses Penance Stare on Kara due to her lack of finesse combat skills, and Vision could use his Density Control on top of his normal Vibranium-based durability as well as Mind Gem blasts and Phasing to counter Superman's superior speed and arguable strength. I give the win to Ghost Rider and Vision.

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FangDaNerd

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I'm thinking this battle was made in reaction to the Superman versus Vision battle. Morals off, Ghost Rider uses Penance Stare on Kara due to her lack of finesse combat skills, and Vision could use his Density Control on top of his normal Vibranium-based durability as well as Mind Gem blasts and Phasing to counter Superman's superior speed and arguable strength. I give the win to Ghost Rider and Vision.

I wasn't even in that thread nor did I know there was one, I just thought since this battle wasn't done yet might aswell try it because it seems balanced.

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GoodMeme

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GR takes out Supergirl cause she is stupid. GR stands his ground on Supes and Vision just gets so dense he can resist all the punishment Supes dishes out. Also GR is able to stand his ground cause he was able to rip off the freakin door off a containment unit that was supposed to hold really strong people, he has Hell Fire, the Penance Stare (unlike the comics), andis more than durable. Giving this to MCU team.

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king_majestros

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@king_majestros said:

I'm thinking this battle was made in reaction to the Superman versus Vision battle. Morals off, Ghost Rider uses Penance Stare on Kara due to her lack of finesse combat skills, and Vision could use his Density Control on top of his normal Vibranium-based durability as well as Mind Gem blasts and Phasing to counter Superman's superior speed and arguable strength. I give the win to Ghost Rider and Vision.

I wasn't even in that thread nor did I know there was one, I just thought since this battle wasn't done yet might aswell try it because it seems balanced.

Ah, okay. Must be a coincidence, then. No worries.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@goodmeme said:

GR takes out Supergirl cause she is stupid. GR stands his ground on Supes and Vision just gets so dense he can resist all the punishment Supes dishes out. Also GR is able to stand his ground cause he was able to rip off the freakin door off a containment unit that was supposed to hold really strong people, he has Hell Fire, the Penance Stare (unlike the comics), andis more than durable. Giving this to MCU team.

This. But Supes still wins unless Vision phase kills.

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TheKinfing

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Kryptonians stomp.

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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Moral off solo kryptonian massive stomps.

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Aatroxxx

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Kryptonians

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nerdchore

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Even if you hate kara she is by far not the weakest one here.

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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Morals off, Ghost Rider uses Penance Stare on Kara due to her lack of finesse combat skills,

Moral off kara would just

  • blitz ( faster than bullets )

  • heat vision ( powerful enough to make a fusion bomb )

  • Freeze breath ( absolute zero )

Vision could use his Density Control

Which has no feats to suggest that he could phase through someone who survived nuclear explosion.

on top of his normal Vibranium-based durability

Which is based on pure speculation.

as well as Mind Gem blasts

Which has no feats close to heat vision.

and Phasing

Which is useless.

to counter Superman's superior speed and arguable strength.

He gets one shot from moral off superman blitz and heat vision.

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king_majestros

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@king_majestros said:

Morals off, Ghost Rider uses Penance Stare on Kara due to her lack of finesse combat skills,

1. Moral off kara would just

  • blitz ( faster than bullets )
  • heat vision ( powerful enough to make a fusion bomb )
  • Freeze breath ( absolute zero )

Vision could use his Density Control

2. Which has no feats to suggest that he could phase through someone who survived nuclear explosion.

on top of his normal Vibranium-based durability

3. Which is based on pure speculation.

as well as Mind Gem blasts

4. Which has no feats close to heat vision.

and Phasing

5. Which is useless.

to counter Superman's superior speed and arguable strength.

6. He gets one shot from moral off superman blitz and heat vision.

1. Neat. She has abilities I already knew about.

2. Uhm, as I said in the other thread, he phased through Vibranium. So, yes, he can phase through Superman. Show me how Superman would be immune to phasing.

3. It's... not based on speculation. Either you haven't seen the movie (or the other thread where I showed you), or you're so biased that you're unwilling to accept anything.

4. What exactly has Heat Vision done to say it's better than the Mind Stone blasts? The only two significant showings I remember is them carving through a normal downtown building as well as through a Kryptonian ship that has no stats of its own indicating its superiority over Earth-based ships.

5. How is phasing useless when Vision can use to evade Superman's attacks?

6. One-shot would do what? Vision is extremely durable and nothing has shown to damage him, yet. And what would Heat Vision do?

Seriously, you make these claims and ignore proof that counters them.

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Mutant1230

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@nightmare52:

  • It has been proven multiple times Supergirl has human reaction times, the few instances of her catching bullets are too few and far between they can be dismissed as inconsistency or outlier. Even if she is a bullet timer Ghost Rider is casually supersonic.
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Daisy's quakes are supersonic.

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Even if we count Kara's inconsistent speed Robbie is still objectively faster regardless and will in no way be blitzed by her.

  • Charging a Fission Bomb is not a feat for Kara's Heat Vision. All that happened was Cadmus used the radiation from it to create their own bomb. She alone never produced enough energy to do that and there's no saying what Cadmus might've done to make the radiation useable in a nuclear weapon like that. Far too vague to be counted off as a feat, especially since it didn't from come from Kara's eyes. Even if it is counted Robbie's tanked a Plutonium Bomb before, this wouldn't be anything he hasn't seen.
  • Kara's breathe is not absolute zero. You said it yourself feats > words. She's never shown proof of her breathe ever getting that cold.

Just wanted to clear up some of your claims against Robbie.

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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1. Neat. She has abilities I already knew about.

Which can one shot ghost rider before he has a chance.

2. Uhm, as I said in the other thread, he phased through Vibranium.

r u saying Ultron since

" LITTLE vibranium cocktail?"

- Ironman

Who doesn't have any feats to suggest to superman level durability.

So, yes, he can phase through Superman. Show me how Superman would be immune to phasing .

Superman was denser enough to survive in a nuclear explosion without disintegrated.

Did he phased through someone who can survive a nuclear explosion at point blank ????

3. It's... not based on speculation. Either you haven't seen the movie (or the other thread where I showed you), or you're so biased that you're unwilling to accept anything.

Even if we assume that Vision body is made of 30 kg of vibranium-tissue alloy what makes u think that can withstand superman punches ????

4. What exactly has Heat Vision done to say it's better than the Mind Stone blasts?

Melted 280+ kg of steel which needs at least of 2 gigajoules.

What did vision beam do to say it's better than heat vision ???

5. How is phasing useless when Vision can use to evade Superman's attacks?

Coz he never phased through someone who can survive a nuclear explosion ???

6. One-shot would do what?

Shatter him or kill him.

Vision is extremely durable

Which is completely based on speculation.

and nothing has shown to damage him, yet

He took what exactly to say he can survive a single punch ???

. And what would Heat Vision do?

Disintegrate him.

Seriously, you make these claims and ignore proof that counters them

.

Ur proof are like these.

Vision = vibranium , intangbility.

Where they don't have any feats to say they are more durable than superman or penetrate through superman who can survive a nuclear explosion.

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@king_majestros said:

1. Neat. She has abilities I already knew about.

1. Which can one shot ghost rider before he has a chance.

2. Uhm, as I said in the other thread, he phased through Vibranium.

2. r u saying Ultron since

" LITTLE vibranium cocktail?"

- Ironman

3. Who doesn't have any feats to suggest to superman level durability.

So, yes, he can phase through Superman. Show me how Superman would be immune to phasing .

4. Superman was denser enough to survive in a nuclear explosion without disintegrated.

5. Did he phased through someone who can survive a nuclear explosion at point blank ????

3. It's... not based on speculation. Either you haven't seen the movie (or the other thread where I showed you), or you're so biased that you're unwilling to accept anything.

6. Even if we assume that Vision body is made of 30 kg of vibranium-tissue alloy what makes u think that can withstand superman punches ????

4. What exactly has Heat Vision done to say it's better than the Mind Stone blasts?

7. Melted 280+ kg of steel which needs at least of 2 gigajoules.

8. What did vision beam do to say it's better than heat vision ???

5. How is phasing useless when Vision can use to evade Superman's attacks?

9. Coz he never phased through someone who can survive a nuclear explosion ???

6. One-shot would do what?

10. Shatter him or kill him.

Vision is extremely durable

11. Which is completely based on speculation.

and nothing has shown to damage him, yet

12. He took what exactly to say he can survive a single punch ???

. And what would Heat Vision do?

13. Disintegrate him.

Seriously, you make these claims and ignore proof that counters them

.

14. Ur proof are like these.

Vision = vibranium , intangbility.

Where they don't have any feats to say they are more durable than superman or penetrate through superman who can survive a nuclear explosion.

1. Prove they will one-shot him.

2. It was a phrase used to emphasize what Ultron did. Not sure why you'd emphasize a word and take it literally. Now you're reaching...

3. Never said Iron Man has Superman-level durability, nor am I not.

4. Being able to survive a nuclear bomb doesn't negate phasing. You have no idea what "phasing/intangibility" is. Even though I already posted what it is in the other battle, I'll do it again here, hoping you'll actually understand it.

Intangibility is often done by passing their atoms between the spaces of other particles in the surface they are "going through".

Also, stop acting like Superman surviving the nuclear bomb means he can survive everything else.

5. He phased through Ultron, whom survived the combined might of Iron Man's repulsor beams, Thor's lightning, and Vision's Mind Gem blasts.

6. Why are we assuming he's made out of Vibranium when we ALREADY KNOW HE IS? Do you not actually watch the movies? Do you not actually listen to what is being said? Are you so biased and Superman balls-deep that you completely block out anything MCU? I've proven it.

7. Irrelevant. It gives no weight to your argument.

8. You didn't answer my request. Show me how Heat Vision is better than the Mind Stone blasts. When you do, I'll answer your question.

9. Again, surviving a nuclear blast doesn't negate phasing. Prove to me that Superman is immune to phasing.

10. That's your opinion, not a fact. Prove to me that Superman's punches would either shatter or kill him.

11. It's not speculation. I don't know where or why you'd say that.

12. Everything that was thrown at him. Are you blind?

13. That's your opinion, not a fact. Prove to me that Superman's Heat Vision would disintegrate Vision.

14. You're delusional.

Answering my requests with a question is not proving your side of the debate. Start posting visual evidence.

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@nightmare52:

It has been proven multiple times Supergirl has human reaction times, the few instances of her catching bullets are too few and far between they can be dismissed as inconsistency or outlier. Even if she is a bullet timer Ghost Rider is casually supersonic.

She holds back a lot doesn't mean that they are incapable , nice low ball trick.

Anyway u can use inconsistent or outlier only it is done once or twice but she did it more than few times and she is a speedster level being.

Daisy's quakes are supersonic.

It's sub sonic.

Even if we count Kara's inconsistent speed Robbie is still objectively faster regardless and will in no way be blitzed by her.

Kara is mach 20+ even by show feat ghost rider isn't even FTS.

Charging a Fission Bomb is not a feat for Kara's Heat Vision. All that happened was Cadmus used the radiation from it to create their own bomb. She alone never produced enough energy to do that and there's no saying what Cadmus might've done to make the radiation useable in a nuclear weapon like that. Far too vague to be counted off as a feat, especially since it didn't from come from Kara's eyes. Even if it is counted Robbie's tanked a Plutonium Bomb before, this wouldn't be anything he hasn't seen .

Even if we take he took a nuke level ( for sake of argument not even considering the part where they planned to steel plutonium using yo-yo and 10 times radiation part )

Kara should have generated 9000+ terajoules per second if we low ball it by taking it as a energy required to fuse a 400 kg of deuterium.

Kara's breathe is not absolute zero. You said it yourself feats > words. She's never shown proof of her breathe ever getting that cold .

She one shot alien ship weapon that should be able to withstand - 455 degrees Fahrenheit ( based on Google ).

Loading Video...

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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1. Prove they will one-shot him.

See post #21 for heat vision , blitz and zero breath.

2. It was a phrase used to emphasize what Ultron did. Not sure why you'd emphasize a word and take it literally. Now you're reaching...

So do u !!!

3. Never said Iron Man has Superman-level durability, nor am I not.

Statement and who said that statement.

4. Being able to survive a nuclear bomb doesn't negate phasing. You have no idea what "phasing/intangibility" is. Even though I already posted what it is in the other battle, I'll do it again here, hoping you'll actually understand it.

Intangibility is often done by passing their atoms between the spaces of other particles in the surface they are "going through".

I get ur intangbility meaning but he doesn't have much feats.

since superman's inter molecule force ( density ) was able to withstand the ENERGY produced by nuke.

Also, stop acting like Superman surviving the nuclear bomb means he can survive everything else.

Taking a nuclear explosion isn't a joke.

5. He phased through Ultron, whom survived the combined might of Iron Man's repulsor beams, Thor's lightning, and Vision's Mind Gem blasts.

Who's durability is ????

6. Why are we assuming he's made out of Vibranium when we ALREADY KNOW HE IS? Do you not actually watch the movies? Do you not actually listen to what is being said? Are you so biased and Superman balls-deep that you completely block out anything MCU? I've proven it.

He is TISSUE+vibranium which u neglect.

7. Irrelevant. It gives no weight to your argument.

8. You didn't answer my request. Show me how Heat Vision is better than the Mind Stone blasts. When you do, I'll answer your question.

3.5+ gigajoules per second > featless mind Stone blast.

9. Again, surviving a nuclear blast doesn't negate phasing. Prove to me that Superman is immune to phasing .

Intermolecular force ( density ) > nuke energy.

10. That's your opinion, not a fact. Prove to me that Superman's punches would either shatter or kill him.

No Caption Provided

Derailed 3 x 212 ton locomotive + 2 x 50 ton oil carrier = 700+ ton .

Did vision took anything close to this ???

11. It's not speculation. I don't know where or why you'd say that.

Show me vision taking something like it.

12. Everything that was thrown at him. Are you blind?

Like what ???

13. That's your opinion, not a fact. Prove to me that Superman's Heat Vision would disintegrate Vision .

Vision never took anything close to heat vision level !!!

14. You're delusional.

Ur saying that !!!

Answering my requests with a question is not proving your side of the debate. Start posting visual evidence.

Provide actual feats or don't waste my time !!!

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@mutant1230: Did you actually say that GR is supersonic and then used one feat to try and justify it? Doesn't matter if he has supersonic feats. Those feats are too few and far between they can be dismissed as inconsistency or outlier.

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@nightmare52:

She holds back a lot doesn't mean that they are incapable , nice low ball trick.

Anyway u can use inconsistent or outlier only it is done once or twice but she did it more than few times and she is a speedster level being.

She allows herself and others to be almost killed? O_O

What about the moments she doesn't hold back and still doesn't exhibit fast combat speed? When she tries to choke Master Jailer with a chain, Supergirl only runs behind him at super speed but chokes him at regular speed. What logical reason would she do this? Superman failed to successfully punch a Metallo soldier who shortly after almost killed him using Kryptonite. Why would he hold back against such a deadly opponent? Why would Supergirl allow herself to nearly be killed by Reactron when she easily could've just ran circles around him? Now when I think of it, wouldn't knocking someone out with super speed by the more moral thing to do? Quickly dispatching of a villain and saving yourself the trouble doesn't sound like a serious moral dilemma to me.

Also, there are far more instances of Supergirl failing to display fast combat speed than there are of her successfully doing it, meaning your examples are the inconsistencies here. She's not a speedster level being.

It's sub sonic.

Nope. Bullets are supersonic, Daisy reflected a bullet with her quake. Ergo Daisy's quakes must be supersonic.

Kara is mach 20+ even by show feat ghost rider isn't even FTS.

Good thing they're not in a foot race or that would be relevant.

Even if we take he took a nuke level ( for sake of argument not even considering the part where they planned to steel plutonium using yo-yo and 10 times radiation part )

Yeah dude, this doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Kara should have generated 9000+ terajoules per second if we low ball it by taking it as a energy required to fuse a 400 kg of deuterium.

That's not how bombs work. They're not built with the energy already inside of them. They're engineered to expel said energy when the detonator is pressed. It's not very practical to store a city busting explosion inside of a small hunk of metal, is it? It's chemical reactions that make the explosions. Not literal stored heat

She one shot alien ship weapon that should be able to withstand - 455 degrees Fahrenheit ( based on Google ).

First off, that Cadmus ship is obviously CGIed you couldn't possibly have a accurate answer for how much cold it can withstand. Second off, - 455 degrees Fahrenheit is not absolute zero, not even close. Third off, she failed to freeze Red Tornado or Biomax who at absolute zero should've fallen apart regardless, yet they broke out of it like nothing. They were robots so the holding back excuse doesn't work here. Her breathe isn't absolute zero, there's still no proof.

@rbt: Did you actually say that GR is supersonic and then used one feat to try and justify it? Doesn't matter if he has supersonic feats. Those feats are too few and far between they can be dismissed as inconsistency or outlier.

Two. There were two gifs.

First off, coming from that's hilarious. Where was this attitude when we were debating Supergirl's speed and you insisted three speed feats beyond a reasonable doubt proved Kara was fast against six slow feats? Inconsistency seems to only matter when Supergirl's opponents displays them.

Second off, Where are the inconsistencies in Robbie's speed? When has he ever been tagged in the Ghost Rider form by someone slow? Seriously, I've watched all of his fight scenes and the one instance that could kind of be counted as a tagging is when Mace threw him on the ground. But that's easily justifiable that his goal was trying to escape the S.H.I.E.L.D. and not hurt anyone. The second he actuallytried to in the fight Mace can barely get a hit on him.

No Caption Provided

There's also the fact Mace clearly can't hurt him meaning there's little incentive to actually use said speed, unlike the Kara and Clark situations where they've failed to go fast in dangerous situations.

You've even said this yourself, Kara lets bullet bounce off her instead of grabbing them because they're not a threat. Why would it be different here?

It's not inconsistent, Robbie is always portrayed as being fast when he needs to and the only time there's been anything against it is against a vastly inferior opponent.

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@mutant1230 said:

She allows herself and others to be almost killed? O_O

What about the moments she doesn't hold back and still doesn't exhibit fast combat speed?

When she tries to choke Master Jailer with a chain, Supergirl only runs behind him at super speed but chokes him at regular speed. What logical reason would she do this?

She was depowered by red Sun.

Superman failed to successfully punch a Metallo soldier who shortly after almost killed him using Kryptonite. Why would he hold back against such a deadly opponent ?

Coz he was powered by kryptonite.

Why would Supergirl allow herself to nearly be killed by Reactron when she easily could've just ran circles around him?

And do what ???

Now when I think of it,

wouldn't knocking someone out with super speed by the more moral thing to do?

Like doing that she could accidentally kill like she destroyed that ship.

Loading Video...

Quickly dispatching of a villain and saving yourself the trouble doesn't sound like a serious moral dilemma to me.

When u kill accidentally it will be serious issues.

Also, there are far more instances of Supergirl failing to display fast combat speed than there are of her successfully doing it, meaning your examples are the inconsistencies here. She's not a speedster level being.

She is speedster level and she holds back a lot.

FYI : she flies at supersonic in every episode , so she just blitz him at supersonic flight punch.

Nope. Bullets are supersonic, Daisy reflected a bullet with her quake. Ergo Daisy's quakes must be supersonic.

Speculation.

Good thing they're not in a foot race or that would be relevant.

Nice try.

Yeah dude, this doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Anyway it will be Pointless to u .

That's not how bombs work. They're not built with the energy already inside of them. They're engineered to expel said energy when the detonator is pressed. It's not very practical to store a city busting explosion inside of a small hunk of metal, is it? It's chemical reactions that make the explosions. Not literal stored heat

U have no idea about pure fusion bomb.

First off, that Cadmus ship is obviously CGIed you couldn't possibly have a accurate answer for how much cold it can withstand. Second off, - 455 degrees Fahrenheit is not absolute zero.

It's a intergalactic ship.

The average space temperature is -455 ° Fahrenheit = 3 K and absolute zero = 0 K

not even close.

It's only 3 K difference.

Third off, she failed to freeze Red Tornado or Biomax who at absolute zero should've fallen apart regardless, yet they broke out of it like nothing.

Red tornado did got shattered his arm and biomax was frozen to absolute zero.

They were robots so the holding back excuse doesn't work here.

She didn't hold back.

Her breathe isn't absolute zero, there's still no proof.

Already proved.

Stop being a nitpick supergirl hater.

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Chaos239

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Has MCU wank gotten this bad that people think that GR and Vision can take Kyrptonians?

Together they could maybe take a Morals On Kara.

Morals Off Superman bullrushes Vision into the Atmosphere and then crashes him through a mountain, proceeds to fly back and lob GR into space.

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#27  Edited By RBT

@mutant1230: And you missed the whole point of my post. I am using your logic on you. GR one or two feat of being supersonic(which is debatable) is an outlier considering he got tagged by Mace and fights at human speed.

And no, Daisy's quakes are not supersonic.

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Mutant1230

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@nightmare52: She was depowered by red Sun.

Then why could she run behind him?

Coz he was powered by kryptonite.

He had a protective D.E.O. device against the Kryptonite.

No Caption Provided

And do what ???

Knock him out without any risk of him retaliating.

Like doing that she could accidentally kill like she destroyed that ship.

That's a super strength issue which has nothing to do with speed.

When u kill accidentally it will be serious issues.

Speed is one of the least volatile abilities that one could have, super strength is way riskier and Supergirl clearly punches. Why would she not run fast, again?

FYI : she flies at supersonic in every episode , so she just blitz him at supersonic flight punch.

That's called bull rushing, and yes she could do that but it isn't to take down a dude who can tank mountain busting blasts.

Speculation.

No Caption Provided

It's a intergalactic ship.

The average space temperature is -455 ° Fahrenheit = 3 K and absolute zero = 0 K

The ship was in Earth's Atmosphere the entire time and you're the one speculating insisting it was absolutely built for deep space travel. Also, Absolute 0 Kelvin is a theoretical state, it doesn't exist anywhere in the universe that humans have found. It couldn't have been built to handle that.

Red tornado did got shattered his arm and biomax was frozen to absolute zero.

Actually, the arm only broke off it didn't shatter, and Biomax wasn't held by any of her frost blasts. Would not happen at legitimate absolute zero points

She didn't hold back.

Precisely.

Stop being a nitpick supergirl hater.

Nice one, bro.

@rbt: And you missed the whole point of my post. I am using your logic on you. GR one or two feat of being supersonic(which is debatable) is an outlier considering he got tagged by Mace and fights at human speed.

Just like our previous debates you're clearly not reading my comments in their entirety. If you were you would know I already explained the Mace situation quite clearly to you. Ghost Rider was able to dodge a lot of his attacks. The ones he didn't actually don't debunk his super speed because in-character he rarely goes all out against opponents who don't pose a serious threat to him. Case & point, his fight with Hellfire & by extension his fight with Mace.

Never once though has he been too slow for something without an in-universe explanation for it. It's not outlier, there's consistency and explanations for his actions.

And no, Daisy's quakes are not supersonic.

Bullets. The gun was high quality and likely shot supersonic ammo and Daisy's Quake was able to successfully stop it mid-air. There is absolutely no reasonable denial that her quakes are supersonic. It would be for the best we don't waste each others time debating concepts that are well within the range of proof, such as Daisy's quake having a supersonic velocity. :P

@chaos239: Together they could maybe take a Morals On Kara.

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thanosii

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@chaos239: Vision has intsngibility so that won't work. GR can teleport do that won't work

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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@thanosii: ghost rider can't teleport, his portals take time to create. Vision doesn't have supersonic reaction, intangibility is just delaying the inevitable

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Logan812

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#31  Edited By Logan812

I'm an MCU fan through and through (I don't dislike DC at all though,) but Superman without morals? Yeah... Supes has this although "win via death" doesn't really work against Ghost Rider.

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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Then why could she run behind him?

When ??

He had a protective D.E.O. device against the Kryptonite.

Which was broken I think.

Knock him out without any risk of him retaliating.

Which is impossible at superspeed.

That's a super strength issue which has nothing to do with speed.

Speed is one of the least volatile abilities that one could have, super strength is way riskier and Supergirl clearly punches. Why would she not run fast, again?

U have no idea how speed affect in terms of force.

That's called bull rushing, and yes she could do that but it isn't to take down a dude who can tank mountain busting blasts.

Speculation

The ship was in Earth's Atmosphere the entire time and you're the one speculating insisting it was absolutely built for deep space travel. Also, Absolute 0 Kelvin is a theoretical state, it doesn't exist anywhere in the universe that humans have found. It couldn't have been built to handle that.

Supergirl has absolute zero freeze breath.

Actually, the arm only broke off it didn't shatter, and Biomax wasn't held by any of her frost blasts. Would not happen at legitimate absolute zero points

Based on what ur saying biomax can't withstand considering that it was able to affect supergirl !!!

Just like our previous debates you're clearly not reading my comments in their entirety. If you were you would know I already explained the Mace situation quite clearly to you. Ghost Rider was able to dodge a lot of his attacks.

Who is not well known for speed !!

The ones he didn't actually don't debunk his super speed because in-character he rarely goes all out against opponents who don't pose a serious threat to him. Case & point, his fight with Hellfire & by extension his fight with Mace.

Nothing relevant to speed .

Never once though has he been too slow for something without an in-universe explanation for it. It's not outlier, there's consistency and explanations for his actions .

Ur exaggerating something that doesnt exist.

Bullets. The gun was high quality and likely shot supersonic ammo and Daisy's Quake was able to successfully stop it mid-air. There is absolutely no reasonable denial that her quakes are supersonic. It would be for the best we don't waste each others time debating concepts that are well within the range of proof, such as Daisy's quake having a supersonic velocity. :P

Speculation considering that bullet was more than 3 times faster than her attack.

I would never agree with ur ur nitpick low ball trick and Over exaggeration something that will never happen again .

It's better if we end our debate here.

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RBT

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@mutant1230:

Just like our previous debates you're clearly not reading my comments in their entirety. If you were you would know I already explained the Mace situation quite clearly to you. Ghost Rider was able to dodge a lot of his attacks. The ones he didn't actually don't debunk his super speed because in-character he rarely goes all out against opponents who don't pose a serious threat to him. Case & point, his fight with Hellfire & by extension his fight with Mace.

Never once though has he been too slow for something without an in-universe explanation for it. It's not outlier, there's consistency and explanations for his actions.

I'm sorry if I can only take so much of bullshit and hypocrisy. Mace's hits are justified? Your blatant hypocrisy would be irritating if it wasn't outright hilarious. Keep digging.

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Galactic_1000

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Supes

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team superman

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Mutant1230

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@nightmare52:

When ??

No Caption Provided

Which was broken I think.

It was damaged but unless Kryptonite was specifically stuck at him it shouldn't have an effect on his power.

No Caption Provided

Which is impossible at superspeed.

???

U have no idea how speed affect in terms of force.

She doesn't have to use super strength at all, The Flash punches people at high speeds and they all turn out fine. What's stopping the Kryptonians again?

Speculation

No, it's not "speculation". Ghost Rider tanked a Plutonium Bomb at the end of his arc in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. he came back at the end of Agents of Hydra completely fine and when asked about it never even mentioned recovery or long term damage from the explosion.

Supergirl has absolute zero freeze breath.

LoL, I'm sure all the evidence mentioned beforehand will just disappear if you keep repeating that. xD

Based on what ur saying biomax can't withstand considering that it was able to affect supergirl !!!

Once again, what?

Who is not well known for speed !!

Super speed has been an essential part of Ghost Rider's power set in the comics for decades. He has just as much a claim to it as say, Superman or Wonder Woman do.

Nothing relevant to speed .

Very relevant to speed. I explained why Mace attacking him made sense in the narrative despite him havng the enhanced reaction times, Robbie rarely exerts his powers to their full extent against considerably weaker opponents. It's not inconsistency if there's an in-universe logic/explanation for what is happening.

Ur exaggerating something that doesnt exist.

Show me an irrefutable instance of Robbie being slow.

Speculation considering that bullet was more than 3 times faster than her attack.

I don't know where you're getting the "3 times" number from but the bullet barely gets within her range before the Quake is able to re-channel, but much closer than three times if you ask me.

@rbt: I'm sorry if I can only take so much of bullshit and hypocrisy. Mace's hits are justified? Your blatant hypocrisy would be irritating if it wasn't outright hilarious. Keep digging.

Unbelievable. Even after I explained in painstaking detail why Mace's hits were justified you continue to repeat the same untrue arguments about them proving some sort of inconsistency with Ghost Rider's power set. I doubt you'll see this, but for anyone else who's reading...

Ghost Rider has a clear habit of tanking attacks when they're not actually a clear threat to him.

Like this Bazooka when he was driving. Zero attempt to move out the way.

No Caption Provided

Or how he literally stayed put when Hellfire tried to hit him with a fire ball.

No Caption Provided

With those examples in mind it serves to reason the same logic applies to Mace. He made no effort to dodge his attacks because he knew they wouldn't hurt him, the same thing he had done a multitude of times before and after, this even answers why he dodged Daisy's quakes. They've been portrayed to be heavily destructive at full force and could potentially cause damage, ergo he couldn't just tank it and had a reason to avoid them using his super speed.

Like I said, doubt you'll read this but everything he's been portrayed to do is consistent. Unlike Kara's slow feats which have no logical in-universe justifications other then her just simply lacking that ability.

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@mutant1230:

As i already said I would never agree with ur nitpick low ball trick and Over exaggeration something that will never happen again so it's pointless to debate.

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nerdchore

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This is beyond ridiculous. The kryptonians are faster and stronger. They win

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BabyDarkseid

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@rbt said:

Either Kryptonian solos.

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Spidersauce

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You can't accurately say anyone wins. Ignore Vision, just look at the Kryptonians and GR. In MCU so far, there's nothing that has even damaged GR once he's phased and not in Robbie Reyes-human-form. So we have no idea if the Kryptonians can even damage GR. At the same time, there's no actual feat showing GR could do enough damage to Superman or Supergirl. It very well could be a state of two invincible sides battling forever.

Even Kara's breath likely wouldn't work against Ghost Rider's natural Hellfire state, as his fire/heat is practically internal, so it'd never freeze him to zero, and we have no idea how hot he can actually go to counteract it; could potentially be perfectly.

It's a draw.

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Heatforce

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Dceu Superman is Mhs+ and around country level for his off-screen tectonic plate feat. Hey if the bulldozer feat in AoS counts for cap, so does superman moving a tectonic plate. Besides Wonder Woman introduced tectonic feats in the form of a dying Zeus. Kara is City lvl and is HS in speed (she even kept up with barry). The rider gets flung into space before he can even think via superman and then superman and supergirl team up on vision. He can't stay phased forever.

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LORDSHEPHERD123

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Its goes to either of the team

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#43  Edited By Khael

Kryptonians for the win.