@rpottage: No he doesn't win . Hulk stomps. Thor never took him out in Ragnarok, and he tanked a lighting amped punch, Hulkbuster only koed him because he was about to turn back into Banner, before that he tankes getting rammed through a big ass building.
Thor took him out. The Grandmaster had to use his disk to knock Thor out because he was defeating Hulk, and Grandmaster didn't want that.
You're making the Banner thing up. There was no evidence he was about to turn back; and there's no evidence that if he were that would matter. Hulk was still in Hulk mode, and got knocked out. Just like he did when he fell from the Helicarrier.
Shazam wins. All he has to do is fly the Hulk into the sky where the fall would make him unconscious and revert him back to Banner
I know the movie is limited on feats, but Shazam survived a head-on collision with Dr. Sivana at "hyper-speed" without a scratch. That's more force than mere gravity such as a fall from the sky.
Also, Shazam isn't bothered by bullets. The Hulk cries out in pain when shot upon.
And the only time Shazam is really hurt is when Dr. Sivana punched him since he's powered by magic.
That's only out of anger, it doesn't injure him in the slightest, he isn't ko'ed or anything he continues to kick ass afterwards
Hulk survived a collision with the Abomination which caused a shockwave here:
@rpottage: No he doesn't win . Hulk stomps. Thor never took him out in Ragnarok, and he tanked a lighting amped punch, Hulkbuster only koed him because he was about to turn back into Banner, before that he tankes getting rammed through a big ass building.
Thor took him out. The Grandmaster had to use his disk to knock Thor out because he was defeating Hulk, and Grandmaster didn't want that.
You're making the Banner thing up. There was no evidence he was about to turn back; and there's no evidence that if he were that would matter. Hulk was still in Hulk mode, and got knocked out. Just like he did when he fell from the Helicarrier.
Thor didn't take him out, he was still conscious throughout the entire fight, and wasn't injured at all.
Yes there is, watch the clip again, you can see that Hulk has calmed down and shivers a bit as if he was about to transform.
@rpottage: No he doesn't win . Hulk stomps. Thor never took him out in Ragnarok, and he tanked a lighting amped punch, Hulkbuster only koed him because he was about to turn back into Banner, before that he tankes getting rammed through a big ass building.
Thor took him out. The Grandmaster had to use his disk to knock Thor out because he was defeating Hulk, and Grandmaster didn't want that.
You're making the Banner thing up. There was no evidence he was about to turn back; and there's no evidence that if he were that would matter. Hulk was still in Hulk mode, and got knocked out. Just like he did when he fell from the Helicarrier.
Thor didn't take him out, he was still conscious throughout the entire fight, and wasn't injured at all.
Yes there is, watch the clip again, you can see that Hulk has calmed down and shivers a bit as if he was about to transform.
He was conscious, but the fight was over. Hulk pummelled Thor with all his might, only for Thor to shrug it off and send him flying when he unlocked more of his power. Which absolutely stunned Hulk, and freaked the Grandmaster out.
You should watch the clip again, he doesn't shiver. He stops and looks at all the destruction he caused. Then he gets angry again, starts to growl, gets into his charging position, clenches his fist; and his knocked out by Ironman.
The MCU Hulk is essentially the embodiment of the Worf Effect. They gave him one movie where they let him show off his strength (and then subsequently ignored that movie), then gave him two scenes in Avengers (Thor vs Hulk, and punching the Chitari Whale); and have since then continually used him to show how other people are badass.
Oh look, Hulk got beat by the Hulkbuster; that's how powerful it is. Oh look, a weakened Thor can go toe to toe with the Hulk; and can beat him by unlocking his power. Oh look; Surtur is so powerful he can just shrug Hulk off. Oh look, Thanos is so strong he can decimate Hulk.
And that's basically it. He doesn't fight anyone else really. The Hulk is a seriously mismanaged character in the MCU.
Haven't seen Shazam, but I like the character, and it's on my list. However powerful he is, Billy is still just a kid inside; He lacks the, eeerrr, chest hair to take on the Hulk. He is no trained fighter, or security staff - he's got next to no fighting experience.
Maybe he could be more useful as part of a team against Hulk.
@tedirey: 1. Shazam never did what you suggested in the movie 2. Hulk will not just stand there while Shazam flys over 30 000 feet into the air 3. You're confusing Hulk roaring like how, you know, he always does to crying out in pain 4. Your attempts to lowball and reaching, making headcanon of what Shazam will do shows that you're bias and nobody should take your future opinions into consideration, good day
@rpottage: No he isn't. Lok at this thread https://comicvine.gamespot.com/marvel-cinematic-universe/4015-56089/forums/mcu-hulk-respect-thread-2012952/
he is still powerful
Agree to disagree then. You're not going to address my points, and the respect thread doesn't change my view.
what points?
The points I made.
e.g. Worf Effect, anger before Hulkbuster, limited foes and important scenes, etc.
I made a pose about all that stuff, and your response was: No, respect thread. Still powerful.
Not a compelling argument/counter-argument.
I posted a set of feat on the previous page, view those and try to counter them
You replied to my original post and started this chain; but you're unwilling to admit when you're wrong or to really debate. You just drop things, and say look at the respect thread.
So why would I go out of my way to search for points you made elsewhere and then debunk or debate them; when I know you're not going to listen?
Caused a big ass shockwave that shattered glass, kocknmed people over and shook cars tremendously
Punch sent Hulkbuster flying through a building
Flips a car with a swift kick
After being trapped beneath that containment thing he broke out of it, meaning he used his fists to excavate through solid earth and borrow to the top with his bare hands. You can see each blow causing earthquakes too
^^This one is important because in the next gif you can see how far Abomination kicked him
It's threads like this that make me wonder what tf I'm doing here, comicvine is just full of bias and trolling, it's pathetic
Yeah exactly what I was getting at lol, except I regrettably put it more harshly. You can probabaly see why I got saw annoyed now lol, it was still to far though I still needed to not take it too seriously.
currently shazam is outclassed, he didn't show much in the movie... but if what sivana said about him being able to damage shazam because he has magic as well... then, how is hulk going to be hurting shazam?
potentially, i'll say shazam will beat hulk and even thor in by the time he faces black adam.
Even since his first film bullets really don't do much to Hulk.
Here we see a large number of soldiers focus fire on Hulk and it does nothing more than annoy him.
Even 50. Cal's don't do much more.
Hulk no sells 25 millimeter gunfire without flinching.
Hulk takes gunfire from the Quinjet's mini-gun.
Blunt Force
Endures a collision with Abomination that creates a shockwave, than gets thrown flying for hundreds of feet with incredible force.
If you watch it closely you can see that the surrounding cars were shaking due to Hulk hitting the ground.
Takes a kick from Abomination that sends him through an whole building.
We actually get to see how far Hulk was sent flying with this kick. During the scene Abomination climbs to the top of the building and runs past the area where Hulk landed.
As you can see Abomination traverses a great distance before he finally reaches Hulk's position showing just how far this blow launched him.
Hulk has shown to consistently take punches from Thor.
@thanos_thebadas: Running through metal: Okay. That's not a super impressive feat. Shazam was tackled through the street and shrugged it off.
Catching a tank: He does catch a tank. It's damaged however, and it uses tesseract weapons instead of heavier ammunition. Ultimately this would be about on par with Shazam catching a bus. Maybe slightly stronger, but not much; and Hulk doesn't keep it very long while Shazam holds it in the air for much longer.
Bunker: Same thing as the metal.
Leviathan: Yes, the Leviathan was one of the two scenes I said he had in Avengers that was impressive.
The Hulkbuster is simply a suit of armor; and it matched Hulk's strength and defeated him.
Car kick: That's less impressive than his other feats, so meaningless.
Going through the ground: That's probably his best feat in that movie. It also puts him on par with Shazam going through the street.
You then have clips of a fight he lost to Ironman. A fight where he failed to defeat a weakened Thor and a re-powered Thor knocked him on his ass so the Grandmaster freaked out and stopped the battle. And the one movie I said had his feats, that Marvel basically ignores; and that was used to set him up as a threat so he could then be the embodiment of the Worf Effect.
The Leviathan feat was the only one that could've arguably put him as stronger than Shazam; but it's not quantifiable, so it's no more useful than Shazam fighting Sivana. Durability wise he should be extremely durable based on the first movie; but the Avengers, Age of Ultron, and Infinity War all diminish his durability feats
@thanos_thebadas: Sorry, but you are on a debating forum. If you don’t want to argue, you should find another website, especially when you spend so much time calling people who have a different opinion biased fanboys. I mean... I just looked at your recent posts and that’s all you seem to be posting.
There is no proof that Hulk cannot die. He has been injured by other people in the past. Even Fenris was able to penetrate his skin and hurt him.
Running through metal: Okay. That's not a super impressive feat. Shazam was tackled through the street and shrugged it off.
Catching a tank: He does catch a tank. It's damaged however, and it uses tesseract weapons instead of heavier ammunition. Ultimately this would be about on par with Shazam catching a bus. Maybe slightly stronger, but not much; and Hulk doesn't keep it very long while Shazam holds it in the air for much longer.
Bunker: Same thing as the metal.
Leviathan: Yes, the Leviathan was one of the two scenes I said he had in Avengers that was impressive.
The Hulkbuster is simply a suit of armor; and it matched Hulk's strength and defeated him.
Car kick: That's less impressive than his other feats, so meaningless.
Going through the ground: That's probably his best feat in that movie. It also puts him on par with Shazam going through the street.
You then have clips of a fight he lost to Ironman. A fight where he failed to defeat a weakened Thor and a re-powered Thor knocked him on his ass so the Grandmaster freaked out and stopped the battle. And the one movie I said had his feats, that Marvel basically ignores; and that was used to set him up as a threat so he could then be the embodiment of the Worf Effect.
The Leviathan feat was the only one that could've arguably put him as stronger than Shazam; but it's not quantifiable, so it's no more useful than Shazam fighting Sivana. Durability wise he should be extremely durable based on the first movie; but the Avengers, Age of Ultron, and Infinity War all diminish his durability feats
No dude the tank is a lot heavier, he also threw it, which instantly puts it above the bus catching feat
How is running through metal, a material more durable than concrete, not impressive? He was ripping it apart by simply running through it
How is it not impressive? He effortlessly ran through a concrete structure head on and wasn't even bothered in the slightest.
The parts where he was getting beaten is meant to showcase his high durability
Except they don't.... It just shows how strong Thor, Thanos and the Hulkbuster are
You failed to mention the Abomination feats, notably the shockwave collision, as well as a few other feats.
Another one you ignored was the shockwave during the hulkbuster fight...
@thanos_thebadas: Sorry, but you are on a debating forum. If you don’t want to argue, you should find another website, especially when you spend so much time calling people who have a different opinion biased fanboys. I mean... I just looked at your recent posts and that’s all you seem to be posting.
There is no proof that Hulk cannot die. He has been injured by other people in the past.Even Fenris was able to penetrate his skin and hurt him.
After which he easily healed and then uppercutted him underwater which sent him flying
No he hasn't he's only been injured by Thanos and Fenris, he's never bled before that (correct me if I'm wrong) anyway he tanked the damage form all the ko's and survives
@thanos_thebadas: The assault takes place in what would be a former Soviet Bloc country; meaning the tank would most likely be a modified T-55, or possibly a T-72. Both are lightweight tanks, and while the T-55 is more common it's also lighter, but also older.
A T-72 weighs about 90k pounds; but about 40k of that is the turret which would've been completely removed and redesigned for the Tesseract Weaponry. It also doesn't hold the heavy ammunition that a T-55 would have. So with the modifications you're looking at closer to 50k pounds.
A typical bus with passengers weights about 38k pounds. Which means it's only 12k pounds difference; not nearly enough to say Hulk outclasses Shazam.
Running through metal is far less impressive than going through the ground. The sheer density of the ground is much more impressive. So since we already have that feat; everything below that isn't impressive.
Except they don't showcase his durability because he keeps getting beaten. It's not like he takes the attacks from Ironman then wins; that would be more impressive. But he loses, which means those attacks are the limit of what he can take. He can't take anything more than that.
Except that since Hulk never gets to shine, showing how powerful Thor/Hulkbuster/Thanos are simply have the effect of showing how weak the Hulk is. That's the Worf effect. You introduce a character as being really powerful, so that later on you can show how powerful other people are by having them beat that character. But since you never re-establish their power and just have them keep getting beaten, it actually just makes them weak. Thanos beating Hulk is meaningless because Hulk never beats anyone. The fact that he does it so easily, then appears to have more trouble with the Ironman team or with Captain America just highlight that problem.
No, I didn't fail to mention the Abomination feats; you're just not listening. The abomination feats all take place in the first movie. But the MCU has basically abandoned that movie. They used it to set Hulk up as powerful, but only in that one movie. He never displays anything close to the feats he did in that movie elsewhere. That's how they set him up as the embodiment of the Worf Effect. But it also makes the feats from that movie useless as they are barely canon and would be outliers.
I didn't ignore the shockwave in the Ironman fight either; I combined the Ironman fight into one point; which was that it's a suit of armor to which Hulk lost. He was matched in strength, and subsequently beaten, by armor. That's not impressive.
@rpottage: Now you're just lowballing aint even gonna bother. Hulk evidently wins...
No, lowballing would be pointing out the Tank was attacked twice before Hulk caught it; and that the second attack seemed to blow the turret completely off. Which is why there was no turret while Hulk was holding the tank. Making it likely less than 50k pounds; and assuming it's the older model of tank that weighs about 10k less to begin with making it less than 40k pounds.
That would be lowballing. Instead I gave it the benefit of the doubt that it was the heavier version of tank, and that the two attacks did 0 damage to the tank.
What I didn't do was highball it. I used some basic calculations to figure out what a fair weight of both vehicles would be. Which has nothing to do with durability anyways.
And since my first post I pointed out that Shazam might not have the strength but he has the speed, electricity generation, and flight. none of which you ever addressed.
@rpottage: Ok sorry, I was just getting annoyed, I already had an outburst earlier on I apologize. I think the best way to settle this is with a CAV... Would you like to do one? By all means you don't have to, if we do wait for some clips first or until Endgame releases
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