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Posted by modernww2fare (7017 posts) 2 months, 17 days ago

Poll: DCEU Ocean Master vs IW Black Panther (80 votes)

Orm 60%
T'Challa 40%
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On land of course

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#1 Posted by TonyMartial (8840 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on now Orm one shots

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#2 Posted by Worldofthunder (5055 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol what is this Orm destroys his ass

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#4 Posted by Mrnoital (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

the problem with Black Panthers suit, I've seen him ragdolled by a number of attacks, but never knocked out or taken out of the fight from it

Ocean Master should definitely win, but I've never seen BP take real damage that can take him out of a fight thanks to that suit

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#5 Posted by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm stomps

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#6 Posted by Amendment50 (15148 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm.

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#7 Posted by jashro44 (51978 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther. Honestly Aquaman became less impressive after his movie. When they were both hit with grenade launchers the effects were similar....Except Aquaman was actually knocked out for a few seconds whereas T'challa was just dazed. I can see an argument for Aquaman being more durable since he still has feats like the building feat from justice league but the gap isn't as big as I thought.

Orm pretty much scales to Arthur except he is less skilled on land. T'challa's claws will likely rip his armor apart and he is faster. And as he gets hit, T'challa can return the sub total of the energy he's absorbed back at Orm if he doesn't one shot.

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#8 Posted by FromBeyond (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

Really depends on whether Orms trident can pierce the suit. Scaling off Aquaman's trident in JL, it has superior piercing capabilities than anything in the DCEU except the trident of Attlan. That's including WW's sword, which can slice through Doomsday.

I feel like in this case it would be more appropriate to assume the Trident would pierce the suit than the suit could resist the trident. Simply because the suit has never been tested to such a high degree.

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#9 Posted by haoalchemist (6196 posts) - - Show Bio

Tchalla stomps. Can't wait till the Aquaman wank dies down.

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#10 Posted by jashro44 (51978 posts) - - Show Bio

Really depends on whether Orms trident can pierce the suit. Scaling off Aquaman's trident in JL, it has superior piercing capabilities than anything in the DCEU except the trident of Attlan. That's including WW's sword, which can slice through Doomsday.

I feel like in this case it would be more appropriate to assume the Trident would pierce the suit than the suit could resist the trident. Simply because the suit has never been tested to such a high degree.

What did the trident do in justice league?

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#11 Posted by FromBeyond (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I hear a lot of people say that the trident was able to pierce Steppenwolf's armor when WW's sword failed to do so. With the amount of people saying it, I've assumed it to be true.

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#12 Posted by DammeFavour (8287 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: pierce steppenwolf who tanked Diana's sword

OT: Orm spears him

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#13 Posted by jashro44 (51978 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour: @frombeyond:Yea I just rewatched Stpphenwolf's fights. I assume its because wonder woman just never had a chance to put much force into her attacks in comparison to when she sliced off doomsday's hand. I doubt steppenwolf is more durable than doomsday.

Wonder woman can probably slice them both I assume it just takes her effort to do that. I wouldn't say aquaman has better piercing power than wonder woman based off that alone. The damage he did to steppenwolf was very superficial.

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#14 Posted by beatboks1 (9906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Black Panther. Honestly Aquaman became less impressive after his movie. When they were both hit with grenade launchers the effects were similar....Except Aquaman was actually knocked out for a few seconds whereas T'challa was just dazed. I can see an argument for Aquaman being more durable since he still has feats like the building feat from justice league but the gap isn't as big as I thought.

Orm pretty much scales to Arthur except he is less skilled on land. T'challa's claws will likely rip his armor apart and he is faster. And as he gets hit, T'challa can return the sub total of the energy he's absorbed back at Orm if he doesn't one shot.

O_o you think an unarmored Arthur being mildly damaged by a mortar blast at close range a low showing? He also tanked a plasma blast that sent him flying over a 100 feet thru a stone pillar, a rock wall, and smash a shale stone roof followed by a fall to the ground which he just got back up and kept fighting (also without armour). Then of course there's the skydive which was a feat of him being struck with greater force then the grenade. The difference being he was probably more braced for the impact.

All JL feats had Arthur IN Atlantean armour. Armour made from Atlantean steel that we know is stronger since it could actually pierce Arthur when normal steel couldnt. I very much doubt he would have even been dazed had it been wearing the armour

Orm was NEVER shown not to wear armour even once in the film. Despite all the strength feats for Arthur and the showings with his moms trident vs Steppenwolf he couldnt damage or pierce Orm's armour with it.

I have no doubt the vibrainium is stronger but does T'challa really have the Force behind it to be able to do enough damage to armour of this type? If he can there's no doubt his claws would cut on the same way the Atlantean steel cut Arthur. T'challa's vibrainium armour in the hands of someone with enhanced strength greater than his I could see doing this I'm just not convinced that he can.

If BP can strike with enough force to cut Atlantean armour he can take it if he can't I see Orm taking it via attrition.

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#15 Edited by beatboks1 (9906 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour said:

@jashro44: pierce steppenwolf who tanked Diana's sword

OT: Orm spears him

I seriously doubt a spear from any Atlantean is piercing bp's armour. Caps shield did no damage andnits taken a hit from mjilnor

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#16 Posted by WonderBread (117 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone who thinks fishbro stomps is retarded. Anyone who thinks he even wins is stupid. T'Challa guts him. Hell all he has to do is stand still and build up a charge as fishbro pathetically tries to kill him then he simply releases it

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#17 Posted by FromBeyond (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I'll need to rewatch the scenes in the morning, but didn't WW slice through DD without too much effort? I don't think generating power was the issue

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#18 Posted by The_Gaurdian (560 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm harmlessly sailed through a torpedo explosion then proceeded to rip through the submarine that launched said torpedo like tissue paper. He can also stagger/ragdoll Aquaman with his kicks and trident whacks. T'Challa loses. Badly.

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#19 Posted by Emanresu_20 (2692 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm but it’s closer than people think.

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#20 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

T’challa handily

X

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#21 Posted by jashro44 (51978 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

O_o you think an unarmored Arthur being mildly damaged by a mortar blast at close range a low showing? He also tanked a plasma blast that sent him flying over a 100 feet thru a stone pillar, a rock wall, and smash a shale stone roof followed by a fall to the ground which he just got back up and kept fighting (also without armour). Then of course there's the skydive which was a feat of him being struck with greater force then the grenade. The difference being he was probably more braced for the impact.

It doesn't make me think he operates on the tier I thought he did before his solo movie. Black Panther also has his feat where he got hit over a 100 feet after the Wakandain war rhino hit him. I know Aquaman has taken more than the motar shell which is why I said he could be more durable when looking at there feats as a whole.

My main point with the grenade showing is that both were hit with similar attacks and they experienced similar effects from the same attack.

All JL feats had Arthur IN Atlantean armour. Armour made from Atlantean steel that we know is stronger since it could actually pierce Arthur when normal steel couldnt. I very much doubt he would have even been dazed had it been wearing the armour

This is a good point all though black panthers claws actually were able to scratch caps vibranium shield. Nothing else has shown to do that, not even the hit from Thor in the avengers. Cap's shield gauntlets were also able to deflect attacks from Corvus spear which was sharp enough that it stopped vision from going intangible.

Orm was NEVER shown not to wear armour even once in the film. Despite all the strength feats for Arthur and the showings with his moms trident vs Steppenwolf he couldnt damage or pierce Orm's armour with it.

Arthur never hit Orm with the point of his trident:

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I have no doubt the vibrainium is stronger but does T'challa really have the Force behind it to be able to do enough damage to armour of this type? If he can there's no doubt his claws would cut on the same way the Atlantean steel cut Arthur. T'challa's vibrainium armour in the hands of someone with enhanced strength greater than his I could see doing this I'm just not convinced that he can.

If BP can strike with enough force to cut Atlantean armour he can take it if he can't I see Orm taking it via attrition.

Well as I said so far his claws are the only thing we've seen damage caps shield in the MCU. I do think they can probably cut through Orms armor.

@jashro44: I'll need to rewatch the scenes in the morning, but didn't WW slice through DD without too much effort? I don't think generating power was the issue

Doomsday's body didn't offer any resistance. It looks like she winded up for the attack and it was a 2 handed slash. None of the hits she landed on Steppenwolf were quite like that.

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Honestly I am mostly trying to rationalize the showings. As I said it doesn't make sense for steppenwolf to be more durable than doomsday when you compare how easily superman wrecked him versus how he fared against doomsday. I assume she just didn't hit Steppenwolf with as much force because he is an actual warrior and was harder to land a hit like that against.

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#22 Edited by TonyMartial (8840 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian said:

Orm harmlessly sailed through a torpedo explosion then proceeded to rip through the submarine that launched said torpedo like tissue paper. He can also stagger/ragdoll Aquaman with his kicks and trident whacks. T'Challa loses. Badly.

He tanked 1 from the start as well. People are ignorant when it comes to atlanteans.

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#23 Posted by Subline (6961 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther - If he can charge his KE then he could put down Orm easy, and I'm not seeing how Orm pierces his suit.

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#24 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9055 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by The_Gaurdian (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial: Shoot me a link if you got it. I'd love to plaster it all over the forums.

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#26 Edited by TonyMartial (8840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: He was strong enough to tear open a sub and break atlannas trident. Nice and simple if you ask me. T'Challas not putthing him down either.

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#27 Edited by beatboks1 (9906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: wrong battle. That was the one with Atlans trident. Atlans trident >>Orm'>> their Moms (confirmed on screen). It was their moms trident used in JL that had the piercing feats of getting thru Steppenwolfs armour.

In the first battle underwater Arthur struck him a few times and didn't get through the armour. It made sense sinse Orm's Trident was forged to be stronger than the Trident we see do the damage in JL that his armour would also be stronger. Royal armour vs standard Atlantean. Kings trident vs that of his queen.

Considering the damage he tanked in his solo film without armour I considered it a significant upgrade not a downgrade. so rather than lowering his tier imho it elevated it adding armour simply takes that a tier hire again. Orm clearly possessed better equipment than Arthur in their first solo fight by extension I assume Atlan's armour at the end of the film would also be superior to that or Orm though we have nothing to verify that so it is partly conjecture.

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#28 Posted by FromBeyond (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I just watched the WW Steppenwolf fights again. Twice I saw her spin and slash at Steppenwolf in much the same way she did against DD. Once in the hostage scene and again in the final battle. Plenty of movement to build up power, she just couldn't pierce the armor, and they were full blows at his legs, not glancing hits.

You're right, it doesn't make sense for Steppenwolf to be more durable than DD, and he probably isn't. His armor on the other hand, I am 100% certain possesses more durability than the base DD that WW cut up. For example if you watch WW fight DD, there's a point where she slides past his leg, just holding her sword extended outwards. She cuts his leg open without even swinging the sword by just sliding past.

Also you seem to forget that Steppenwolf was taking Supermans best hits and still getting back up, as well as WW and Aquaman's. He only slowed down at the end when Arthur stabbed him. So your durability comparison of DD and Steppenwolf is quite flawed.

Anyway my overall point is that the Trident has better piercing feats than the sword. WW had more than one hard blow and was consistently unable to damage the armor. The trident could.

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#29 Edited by Mister_Surreal (9055 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial: Ummm....I still wouldn’t say that that is enough to one shot T’Challa. I mean, they guy can tank bullelt to the face and takes no fall damage after falling from over a dozen stories. Orm could do some damage, but I wouldn’t say that he one shots at all. On the other hand, T’Challa is faster, smarter, more durable and is a master of H2H combat while Orm is not impressive on land. He also can one shot Orm after gaining enough energy. I say Black Panther 7/10.

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#30 Edited by TonyMartial (8840 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian said:

@tonymartial: Shoot me a link if you got it. I'd love to plaster it all over the forums.

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He lifts a giant pillar straight after this and tanks the next one. You can see how powerful the blast is with the destruction it courses.

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#31 Posted by TonyMartial (8840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial: Ummm....I still wouldn’t say that that is enough to one shot T’Challa. I mean, they guy can tank bullelt to the face and takes no fall damage after falling from over a dozen stories. Orm could do some damage, but I wouldn’t say that he one shots at all. On the other hand, T’Challa is faster, smarter, more durable and is a master of H2H combat while Orm is not impressive on land. He also can one shot Orm after gaining enough energy. I say Black Panther 7/10.

Yes it is. T'Challa not taking that type of strength when he was dazed by far less.

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#32 Posted by The_Gaurdian (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial: Almost forgot about the details from this scene due to trying to analyze everything else. Thanks 👍

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#33 Posted by The_Gaurdian (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: Arthur surfed through a building and traded blows with Steppenwolf in and out of water. Orm was so ferocious and unrelenting that he split his mother's trident and was knocking the wind out of Arthur on land

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#34 Posted by Fictional_Fan (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther, imo

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#35 Posted by beatboks1 (9906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: to highlight my point even in JL we get a very clear disparity of what Arthur is like with and without armour

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Without armour and in his element underwater he barely lasts 30 seconds vs Steppenwolf

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Yet on land out of his element WEARING ARMOUR he can knock steppenwolf around easier he tanked greater blows from him (and Superman).

When you compare the two scenes it's pretty clear from JL that he has a vastly greater level of durability and damage output with his armour and Trident. So what we actually had is better feats for him not wearing armour since all we really had to go on was his one showing vs Steppenwolf underwater where he got his ass kicked

What is solo film has done is clarified the level is that without the armour which then clearly gets amplified quite a bit when he put some on

Orm's armour was superior to his clearly shown in their first solo fight something that was reversed in their second solo fight with a change of armour.

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#36 Posted by TheGrat1 (471 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm. He has a cape.

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#37 Posted by TheGrat1 (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

It makes sense to me. Steppenwolf is wearing armor forged for a New God. It being able to stand up to weapon forged for/by an Old God makes sense. You would not expect Diana's sword to easily cleave her own shield in half, would you? Besides, I think there is a photo showing that Diana was able to knick him right before his axe was broken. You can see blood on the chain mail near his hip.

Also, plate armor is traditionally effective against slashing weapons but not piercing weapons, which explains why Arthur's trident was more easily able to pierce him.

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#38 Edited by Matthew660 (1576 posts) - - Show Bio

Black panther gets bodied. He doesn’t have any long range attacks, orm does. And BP can’t counter orm’s trident.

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#39 Posted by Richubs (3701 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther loses.

Orm has a weapon that cud go through him and he's stronger faster and very skilled himself.

However Black Panther could also hurt him with his claws and KE.

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#40 Edited by a_marques (475 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheGrat1 said:

@jashro44:

It makes sense to me. Steppenwolf is wearing armor forged for a New God. It being able to stand up to weapon forged for/by an Old God makes sense. You would not expect Diana's sword to easily cleave her own shield in half, would you? Besides, I think there is a photo showing that Diana was able to knick him right before his axewas broken. You can see blood on the chain mail near his hip.

Also, plate armor is traditionally effective against slashing weapons but not piercing weapons, which explains why Arthur's trident was more easily able to pierce him.

Yeah, Diana did cut through his armor. The chainmail portion at least. You can see blood where she slashed him (3:09), right below the chest plate.

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But, I think she could've pierced his chest plate if she landed a solid hit with her sword. She just never had the chance to do so, because every time she hit him she only grazed him.

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#41 Posted by Rajjar (1767 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I hear a lot of people say that the trident was able to pierce Steppenwolf's armor when WW's sword failed to do so. With the amount of people saying it, I've assumed it to be true.

I thought so for a while, too. After Steppenwolf whined about why Earth is his rightful property, you can see the marks Diana left. Metal

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Around 0:51; it seemed that she did draw blood. I'm not sure how, but the blood splatter is in the section where the sword made contact.

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#42 Posted by ThunderPrince (6923 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther wins.

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#43 Posted by Supermanthor (15902 posts) - - Show Bio

Black panther

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#44 Posted by buildhare (8612 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman/Orn < Manta speed wise on land. Literally, rewatch the fights. Arthur was outmatched in their rematch for most of it. BP has everything he needs to win here.

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#45 Edited by Archangel01 (1373 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther is just a human

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#46 Edited by rem (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm. This is silly

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#47 Posted by PrimelyGreat (555 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem said:

Orm. This is silly

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#48 Posted by TheVivas (19245 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm wins.

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#49 Posted by jashro44 (51978 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGrat1 said:

@jashro44:

It makes sense to me. Steppenwolf is wearing armor forged for a New God. It being able to stand up to weapon forged for/by an Old God makes sense. You would not expect Diana's sword to easily cleave her own shield in half, would you? Besides, I think there is a photo showing that Diana was able to knick him right before his axe was broken. You can see blood on the chain mail near his hip.

Also, plate armor is traditionally effective against slashing weapons but not piercing weapons, which explains why Arthur's trident was more easily able to pierce him.

This is a good point and probably the explanation I am going to stick with.

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#50 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11550 posts) - - Show Bio

Orm can’t get through his suit