DCEU Justice League vs DCU Titans

Titans

I’d like to CAV these conditions.

Still the JL, although the fight is much closer.

Justice league win. All of the Titans could barley contain Connor. None of Donna's attacks seemed to do any lasting damage. Raven could only hold him back for a short amount of time and was losing her hold on him even with Donna's help. Gar, Hawk and Dove weren't any help at all and Dick would be in the same category as them. Starfire is strong but she was outclassed any Donna in season 1. Aqualad was taken out but a bullet. Wonderwoman and probably Aqualad could take Conner out. Batman has better showings than Dick hawk and dove.

Honestly the only problem I see for the League is Connor because of his speed and Starfire and Rachel but ultimately they win without needing Superman.

@celebrobtoo:

I think your forgetting a huge factor........Rose/Jeherico.

I think this is now spite in the Titans favor, unless we nurf Rose/Jeherico.

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Also I think Grayson alone is more skilled then Batman....

Here is my argument for that.

either way Batman gets buried in street levelers.

I think Connor and Krypto alone are a good match for WW, add in Raven and it becomes a win(assuming Jehrico doesnt already control her body)

I think Starfire is a great counter for Flash.

That leaves Wondergirl, Aqualad, and Beastboy to team up on Aquaman.

^^^^^Thats without Jeherico/Rose.....with them its kinda stompy.

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During the hour before Superman arrives Raven can do some healing and star fire can heal/empower Superboy.

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Im gonna make a new thread with the full JL and Shazam to make it more fair I think.

Jeherico is a great counter for unbalanced teams.

Still the justice league

Flash and Super curbs the team.

Still the Titans. Superboy seem to be quite a bit faster than WW, and Donna and an increasingly powerless Kori were still fast enough to dodge some strikes from him.

A fully powered Kori can release (by statements) star level energy bolts.

Then you have Jericho who can swap bodies at will apparently, and finaly Raven.

Not only she have precognition but her powers seem to work sometime on their own, well in advance and in really sophisticated ways. She can mind read and implant entire scenes and events in others minds and those are unable to discern the reality from that illusion, and she can do that way before people understand whats about and whats going on.

Her soul self can also act by its own apparently, without her visible consent, just subconscious one, and is definitely capable to take down (kill too) any JL members.

On JL side the only threats are Flash due to his speed but he is not a killer neither very skilled and definitely not going to KO, let alone kill, some random girls (especially one as young as Raven).

The other one is Superman who can be almost as fast or about as fast as Flash. If he goes like that from the start, and goes for the kill, he might win. But even so there is Raven precognition and mind control powers so Superman might already see and fight some illusion even before to engage the Titans, and then get taken down as well

@death4bunnies: You know what I did forget about Jericho and Rose. If I’m being honest I disagree about everything else you said but they would be the wild card to throw the league off.

@celebrobtoo:

Cool, so they do have a win condition or two.

Death your info in your Respect thread is missing a lot of feats and some are aren’t true feats. Donnas lasso doesn’t and can’t negate powers.

What feats am I missing?? What arnt true feats?

I believe you are correct about the lasso, I will remove that as a 'feat'.

How strong are the titans ?

@eobard21:

Respect Thread

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-dcu-titans-tv-2049933/?page=1/

@death4bunnies: Yeah man I'll give that to them.

Starfire destroys the earth with sun level flames

Raven does the same with her powers

Either can potentially solo

The duo is enough to say they win 10/10

LOL

@geekryan: Didn't she produce star level flames i didn't watch the show i just read feats

By statement. There is no indication that they are anywhere close to star-level. If that were the case, any time she used her powers, everything she blasts would be instantly disintegrated and the heat from her blasts would burn everything in the vicinity.

Raven was implied to be planetary via scaling to Trigon, who had the power to destroy the Earth but never actually did so and it is unknown how long it would have taken him to actually destroy the Earth. His durability wasn't reflective of his damage potential either, which people are claiming is also planetary.

Neither Starfire nor Raven are anywhere close to planetary.

@geekryan: Okay noted, thanks

@geekryan: @emmafrostxmen:

I wouldnt say no indication that it was a sun level feat....its a statment sure, but they literally say 'sun'. I believe sun level radiation. Here is the feat and sun level statement.

Also as to why her blasts dont disintegrate everyone.......becasue she can control her power output levels, thats literally why she had Raven shield the sun level attack from everyone else and the environment.

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Starifire is building level(explosion) without statments. Starfire also Reduces a possessed Tamaranean to ashes....also auto shields, that can protect from a point blank bullet, and the speed to make a room level AOE before a shell casing hits the ground.

Raven is small building level (explosion) without statements. Raven also has some plot force, she Brings a gargoyle to life, then gargoyle kills man.and second Bruce Wayne to life both from Dicks memories... And her Trigon feat had a decent shockwave, plus a handful of extra powers....also she has a demon clone that sometimes acts of its own volitions, possessing people and stuff.

Superboy is no chump, and Krypto has some good feats.

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Oh also Trigon has some on screen planetary stuff in the respect thread, not durability obviously, but a bunch of statements, plus a projection from Korys ship, plus he was spreading death with each step for a good radius on screen.

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Here is a respect thread.

Pay special attention to Rose/Jerhico; thats a pretty haxxy character also. In fact I think Rose/Jerhico are a major factor in this battle.

@death4bunnies: Well for starter. Your missing Starfires striking and physical strength. She has sent men flying and also she exploded part of train and came out of it unscathed. She’s blasted down steel doors while weakened etc...

Ill look for some more Starfire stuff, your right I seemed to gloss complexity over strength.

@death4bunnies:

I wouldnt say no indication that it was a sun level feat....its a statment sure, but they literally say 'sun'. I believe sun level radiation. Here is the feat and sun level statement.

That's still just a statement though. There is also a massive distinction to be made between sun-level radiation and sun-level power. Regular humans are exposed to the Sun's radiation on a daily basis.

Also as to why her blasts dont disintegrate everyone.......becasue she can control her power output levels, thats literally why she had Raven shield the sun level attack from everyone else and the environment.

As you can see though, Raven doesn't completely cover the blast. She covers most of it, but there are still many, many gaps, like above, below, and even in the center areas of Raven's projection. If it really was sun-level energy, those gaps would be enough to vaporize the entire room and everything in/near it.

Even if we take it as sun-level energy, there is no indication she would do this in a battle as all of her combat feats don't involve anywhere near these amounts of energy output.

Lastly, if it was sun-level, that would mean Raven's magic is sun-level and Superboy has sun-level durability...

Starifire is building level(explosion) without statments. Starfire also Reduces a possessed Tamaranean to ashes....also auto shields, that can protect from a point blank bullet, and the speed to make a room level AOE before a shell casing hits the ground.

Raven is small building level (explosion) without statements. Raven also has some plot force, she Brings a gargoyle to life, then gargoyle kills man.and second Bruce Wayne to life both from Dicks memories... And her Trigon feat had a decent shockwave, plus a handful of extra powers....also she has a demon clone that sometimes acts of its own volitions, possessing people and stuff.

Small building-level is a much, much more accurate power level for the two of them. Most of Raven's power involves hax though, rather than pure DC.

Oh also Trigon has some on screen planetary stuff in the respect thread, not durability obviously, but a bunch of statements, plus a projection from Korys ship, plus he was spreading death with each step for a good radius on screen.

Still just statements. We can assume he would have destroyed the world eventually, but we don't know how long it would have taken or how he would have done it. If it was said he could destroy the world in an instant, that would be more impressive.

Raven beating Trigon is more because of hax and her connection to him, rather than pure DC. And Trigon having the potential to destroy the world doesn't mean his durability is planetary too.

What do you think about Rose/Jehrico, they could be a game changer here.

Superman solos at low difficulty, the remainder of the JL watches at a hotdog stand from the distance.

Pretty much every Titan is fodder for Superman sans Superboy and possibly Raven. Removing PIS Superman could blitz them both with ease as shown when he kept up with The Flash.

@solanis:

Read the OP, Superman doesnt arrive until the last JL member falls.

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What do you think about Jerhico body jumping?

Like I think Supermans to fast for Jerhico to make ye contact, but he can start by jumping into Batman, then Diana then Flash, then by the time Superman arrives Flash is under Jerhicos control, and eye contact would let jerhico jump into Superman.

Starfire burning few thugs to complete ashes in couple seconds, in the first episode, confirms she can release star levels temperatures focused in precise spots , not just on large areas.

In professional crematories they burn bodies for two-three hours at 1300 degrees celsius and still have bones and skulls that are solid and need to be crushed.

A full powered Starfire will take down most of JL by this alone, except Superman.

Also Superboy (and by connection even Donna and Kori) seem to be quite a bit faster than WW, so only Flash could be a danger. But he is so slopy and unexperienced that I doubt will do much or react right away.

Raven (or even Jericho) can deal with Superman. Seeing how Raven's power works, with precognition and well in advance moves, and how she mind manipulated Donna, Kori and Dawn and how realistic were her illusions she playied for them, I doubt Superman will be a real problem.

Raven dark soul self will know in advance about him, how dangerous is, and he will fight Doomsday illusion all over again in some forgotten desert having no idea whats going on with the Titans and JL. And I am pretty sure Raven's powers and soul self can kill him with impunity, considering what she did with Trigon (sure, she more like banished him but Trigon is a universal level threat, considering that Starfire people knew about him as well, had extensive prophecies and info and send Kori on Earth specifically to kill Raven and avoid his entrance in this dimension)

@crunch5481:

What do you think??

@death4bunnies:

I've really only seen very little of Titans so I'm not sure but I think they might beat the JL before Superman, depends on their speed compared to Flash. I don't know the extent of the Titan's speed besides Superboy or if they have magical piercing weapons. I seriously doubt any of the Titan's will be able to actually compete with Superman besides Superboy in speed because Superboy has a few great quantifiable speed feats. But Superboy isn't strong enough to kill Superman, and without magical weapons (assuming those will work on Superman) they won't win UNLESS Raven or someone has some Hax I'm unaware of.

So the factors for me are Flash's speed compared to the Titan's fastest, if Flash is sufficiently faster then Justice League probably wins without Superman, if not then they probably lose. If Superman arrives they won't win without hax, magical weapons and sufficient speed to use those.

@crunch5481:

Here is a respect thread im working on.

I think Starfire is a good counter for flash, because of her shields.

And some of the Titans are pretty durable.

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Rose/Jerhico can possess people through eye contact.

Raven has some good hax.

I think they are the Key to beating superman, if at all possible.

I say DCEU. The obvious is that they have way better teamwork experience and feats. WW could solo. AM could solo most along with Flash for that matter. Cyborg could KO half the team with a properly placed sonic blast.

The issue with Titans is that you have to do insane and complex scaling of the highest caliber of their abilities to make an argument for their win. And even then, you would have to give team DCEU that same respect.

Connor is the biggest threat stat wise but WW still outclasses him. Her fight with DD is enough to show how that goes for Connor. She lifts tanks and one shots steeples casually as well as having the speed to keep up with DD and block HV at close range. Connor’s getting beheaded and of WW utilizes her speed and combat tactics, the team is getting taken out quickly.

AM has the strength, durability, and skill to take out everyone including Connor (with much more difficultly) since his trident can canonically pierce Kryptonians.

The main issue is Raven and Jericho’s hax. Without knowledge of it, that can pose an for team DCEU. But Flash is fast enough to literally accidentally KO either of them even if they attempt activate those abilities. Also, Ravens soul self can be restrained and affected by physical forces and even her dark magic manifestation can be struggled against by force.

Jericho struggled with his fathers mind and skilled warriors like WW and AM or even minds like BM won’t be easy to take on. Cyborg is part MB so it’s debatable if he can even be possessed.

Team DCU are powerful in their own right, but they also struggled and were nearly killed by Slade...SLADE. Do you think Slade would be able to tango with WW or AM or Cyborg or Flash here alone, let alone as a team?

Titans need more feats of power and better application of those feats to beat a few of these guys one on one, let alone together.

But DCU may give them a fight somehow.

@death4bunnies: The issue with SF is that her shields have only been shown to stop bullets by seemingly negating them Upon impact and using the force from them to ignite her own flames. That only happened once and only with bullets. Physical damage from blunt force attacks still harm her.

Not only is Flash vaaaaaslty faster than a bullet, he’s also packing far more force than one and that force is both blunt and energy via his lightning. Starfire likely wouldn’t fair any better than the Parademons did when they were vaporized by Flash on contact.

@rijehu:

I can agree with all of the above, but it happened multiple times with bullets including point blank with slade.

But your right, didnt seem to have auto shields in fist fights.

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Id argue that her durability is above Parademons tho, but not so far above that flash doesnt KO'd her.

Beastboy in tiger form, Superboy, Donna, and Krypto should be able to withstand his blitz....and if he targets any of those first(likely superboy because he has some good amount of speed) that could save the more haxxy characters from the initial blitz.

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I think Donna and Krypto could hold off Diana, not beat her because she too durable; but fight with her for long enough to again give the more haxxy titans a chance.

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I dont have a lot of respect for Aquamans speed(seems like kory could keep up), and I think Kory could give him a run for her money alone(she's pretty above manta blasts), but she can have Aqualad for backup, because of the numbers disparity.

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Cyborg is a odd character, he does have a super impressive feat of bullrushing the bat crawler tho, based off that, hes very dangerous here. But I think Beast Boy and Raven can give him a run.

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Batman get buried in the standing street levelers.

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Rose came healed back from a broken neck death, if shes not vaporized, she has a shot to come back, and with her caring Jerhico, its hard for me to imagine that someone doesnt beecome Jerhicos thrall.

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If the Titans make it to Superman, hopeful they will have Diana on the team via Jehrico, and have a shot via hax.

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I think its a pretty fair battle all-around, lots of things could go wrong for either team....Like if Flash abuses his speed to all hell, or if Jerhico gets into a JL member.....Or Ravens soul self, or ravens odd plot force that brought a gargoyle and bruce to life, or Starfire AOE, could really harm some JL.

@death4bunnies: Yeah I forgot that SF displayed that again in her fight with Slade. I agree.

But I don’t know about her durability being above Parademons. People overlook this because AM

Impaled it, but a Parademon’s body was able to tank a fall from the lower atmosphere, through a a several storied building, while being basically ridden surfboard style by AM, and the body still remained intact with little to no damage shown. Physiology wise, that’s still pretty impressive. And even if we grant SF better durability, I don’t know if is to the extent that she still won’t get vaporized by Flash based upon how easily he did so to multiple parademons. But in the least she’s getting KO’d so I agree with you there again.

Superboy and Krypto can def tank the blitz but Donna is getting dazed and ragdolled if not KO’d. Beastboy is at best is getting Donna’s treatment. I just don’t see him being that durable. At worst, he would also get vaporized.

The thing about Flash is that he’s immensely faster than anyone here. Even WW and Superboy. If he goes SF mode then no one can react to his blitzes no matter who he hits first because they would all be frozen in place. But if he manages to run into a brick wall like SB or Krypto and stumbles, then they will a very small window of opportunity to take him out.

What also makes Flash dangerous is the fact that he can actually carry others around with him with his speed as he did with his team members and well as the human captives in JL. He can use this to literally puppet the Titans into killing blows or strikes. He can also phase if we’re using all the abilities shown on panel so he’s quite the problem here by himself.

AM has skill and stats to pretty much make up for any speed aside from the Kryptonians on the DCU. His trident can create impenetrable shields of water and he can strike through Kryptonian skin as well as basically kabob multiple parademon level beings with one toss. He’s also stock enough to knock aside powerline poles and boats and his submarine feat is still beyond anything Connor has done strength wise. We also can’t forget that his punches can rag doll SW across the battle zone and he can keep up with him even if briefly. He goths at Mach speeds in the water on both Tavel speed and strikes.

He also t asked hits from the karintheon which in itself is utterly insane and Kory nor Connor have stroking on that level. He even tanked a strike from Superman. I love Kory but she wouldn’t make it against AM and Connor aside from his speed, would have trouble. And yes, AM is skilled enough to pierce Connor via feats. Beastboy stands no chance against AM and adding Kory wouldn’t make too much of a difference. Featwise, he outclasses Kory, WG, BB, and can give Connor a run since he has better feats in some departments and skills to use them efficiently.

His water manipulation with the trident is above anything AL has done and stay wise he’s better as well so he’s as much of a threat as necessary to anyone on the DCU. But he is vulnerable to hax so that would pose an issue.

Cyborg would take out BB with no problem. He could also one shot Raven with a rush or a canon blast (can stagger JL Clarke and actually harm SW to a degree) but if she gets haxy first, it might be tricky. I have faith that he can react though since mechanics and maneuverability is on his side.

I’m not even mentioning Bats lol

Rose can heal but the fact that she still takes damage so earsily doesn’t help much. A single sword in the gut put Slade down and they are the same tier, with Slade being slightly better. She isn’t too far above peak human and anything from WW blade to Batman’s baterang placed in a viral organ will down her. Jericho is a problem for some though is he has a chance to hax a heat hitter.

Superman has already trashed the league, and trashed a new God who trashed the league. He would wipe both these teams lol.

Apparently SF and Raven are star level. Shouldn’t they stomp?

@rijehu:

I can respect that, and your debating style...refreshing, kudos.

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I would say I would use Kory against Aquaman only for her energy projection, not in a fist fight.

Her fire has a sun level statment, a feat of turning two men to ash before the shell casing hit the floor, and a feat of turning another tamernean to ash........That I think this a bit above Aquamans energy durability with the speed to match, and her enveloping style makes it hard to block.

Maybe Aqualad could disrupt the water shield if it becomes a problem for Kory??Hes a good distraction either way.

Beast Boy can take a pretty good hit or 2 from Connor but thats kinda it; a good distraction.

With Raven its all about if the team can buy her time to get her hax up,she sheilded Korys blasts not once but twice, with one shield being the size of a building....If the JL hits her before she gets a good amount of smoke out shes a non factor tho.

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I think team can beat Superman when he returns, if they have a JL member under there thrall....Diana or Flash....

Unless Superman abuses the hell outta statue force the team should be able to buy time for Raven to banish him or Jerhico to control him.

There are win conditions for either team as I see it......

Majority? ehh I may lean JL now.....The faster bricky titans are really gonna have to rely on the breakable haxxy titans to put any JL members down for good.

@death4bunnies: Yeah I take League for majority as well. But thank you man. I feel the same about you. It's nice to have some good old respectful and coherent debates every now and then lol.