DCEU Batman vs Rocky Balboa (Boxing)

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The_Hajduk

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15 rounds in the ring. If nobody is knocked out after 15 rounds, it goes to an official decision.

Everyone is at their best and they have six weeks to train. Batman has Alfred and Wonder Woman in his corner. Rocky has Mickey and Apollo.

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JohnnyZ256

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Rocky can take hits from Batman, but can Rocky hit Batman consistently? I'm not too familiar with this version of the character, but I'm leaning towards a win for Batman via decision.

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The_Hajduk

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Bump?

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AlphaQ

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#4  Edited By AlphaQ

Batman's striking is too much.

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KingOfWakanda

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Rocky can take an inhuman amount of punishment but this is too much for him. This Batman is stronger, faster and more durable than any opponent Balboa has ever faced.

How you gonna do Rocky like this?

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ProfessorRespect

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Rocky. Batman is a rubbish fighter who lacks speed or tactics. He's a hard striker that relies on his bulletproof suit to take his damage for him, which while still impressive, doesn't mean that he can win in a boxing match, in which speed is the most important factor. He's just not impressive in terms of speed, in comparison to his older counterparts, such as Nolan, who boast far better stats than him. He's out of his prime and his size makes him a walking target.

Rocky ain't exactly a speedster in terms of punches, but his durability means he can take Bruce's punches and throw back with his own. In terms of a punching match between them, I'm going with Rocky, considering the amount of full on punches he tanks (and these are unblocked, by the way-that's just how he fights, which is another indicator of how superior his durability is)

Rocky wins in a decent matchup. Bruce just isn't fast enough here.

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AllStarSuperman

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Rocky, because if he can change, and I can change, then we can all change.

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AllStarSuperman

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#11  Edited By AllStarSuperman  Online

https://www.quora.com/Could-a-boxer-in-theory-punch-as-hard-as-Ivan-Drago-did-in-Rocky-IV

https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/223696/straight-dope-the-physics-of-punching-someone-in-the-face/

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ProfessorRespect

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^^^ What does PR even mean?

Everything is pretty well defined. A lot better than "well he did x and y in his armored padded suit that he doesn't have" naturally.

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mexcomics2078

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Rocky. Faster and can take bruce punches.

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KarlHeisenberg

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Going with my my boy Rock. Bruce is a bum!

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InfiniteMass

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@mexcomics2078: Rocky doesn't have good speed feats wth?

Rocky is an in fighter

Batman Shows better speed fighting multiple people at the same time

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InfiniteMass

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@professorrespect:

What???

Rocky. Batman is a rubbish fighter who lacks speed or tactics

What are you talking about? Batman showed impressive skill and speed against multiple opponents. Rocky is an in fighter who uses his strength and durability to over come his opponents. Nothing about his fighting style is as impressive as taking multiple opponents at a time.

He's a hard striker that relies on his bulletproof suit to take his damage for him, which while still impressive, doesn't mean that he can win in a boxing match, in which speed is the most important factor.

Rocky doesn't have good speed feats because again, he is a an in fighter, he doesn't rely on out speeding his opponents. I believe the only person he did this to was his opponent in Rocky 3, but that guys was an in fighter too and slow as well.

He's just not impressive in terms of speed, in comparison to his older counterparts, such as Nolan, who boast far better stats than him. He's out of his prime and his size makes him a walking target.

Rocky is huge, what are you talking about? and again I have yet to see a single speed feat for him, besides his running and jogging.

Rocky ain't exactly a speedster in terms of punches, but his durability means he can take Bruce's punches and throw back with his own.

Then why even bring up speed in the first place? You argument seems all over the place, and although he has good durability, he is less likely to actually hit batman, who casually fights multiple armed opponents while wearing his stuite.

In terms of a punching match between them, I'm going with Rocky, considering the amount of full on punches he tanks (and these are unblocked, by the way-that's just how he fights, which is another indicator of how superior his durability is)

This isn't special, its how a lot of in fighters fight, him taking punches head on so he can get in clean hard shots. Problem is, batman is capable of breaking bones, the last thing he wants is to take punches head on. It would be better if he was an outside fighter so he could land blows while keeping a difference. Although he wouldn't be able to deliver the same amount of damage, but he would avoid getting hit by a man who punch through walls.

Rocky wins in a decent matchup. Bruce just isn't fast enough here.

Again, you mentioned hiom not being paticularly fast, yet use that as your argument as to why he would win? What?

This was a very oddly put argument in favor of Rocky. I love Rocky and have rewatched all his movies so many times, but I fail to recall any reason he would be able to keep up with batman or even deliver good enough blows.

Here Batman fights 4 people armed with Knives getting tagged once in this exchange. No reason to believe Rocky could ever replicate this with his speed.

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heiqn

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Lol, no need to lowball DCEU Batman that much. Any LA Fighter is still a thousand times better than real-life fighters since LA fighters often fought with 5,6+ fodders at the same time.

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Ccbm2208

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How superhuman is Rocky ?

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect said:
@graysonblake said:

^^^ What does PR even mean?

Everything is pretty well defined. A lot better than "well he did x and y in his armored padded suit that he doesn't have" naturally.

Even then he can break bones casually

With his suit on that refines his strength?

Not to mention his skill is a lot superior

The "skill" needed to get tagged numerous times by thugs indeed.

@professorrespect:

What???

Rocky. Batman is a rubbish fighter who lacks speed or tactics

What are you talking about? Batman showed impressive skill and speed against multiple opponents

Lol: he had one actual fight and that involved him relying on his suit to block attacks he'd be dead otherwise if they hit.

He's a hard striker that relies on his bulletproof suit to take his damage for him, which while still impressive, doesn't mean that he can win in a boxing match, in which speed is the most important factor.

Rocky doesn't have good speed feats

Debunked at once: Rocky's insanely fast when he needs to be, especially dodging the likes of Clubber or Thunderlips, the latter of which was outright superhuman. If he needs to dodge, he will.

He's just not impressive in terms of speed, in comparison to his older counterparts, such as Nolan, who boast far better stats than him. He's out of his prime and his size makes him a walking target.

Rocky is huge, what are you talking about?

Rocky can dodge, which is something Batman hasn't exactly shown very well in any official setting.

In terms of a punching match between them, I'm going with Rocky, considering the amount of full on punches he tanks (and these are unblocked, by the way-that's just how he fights, which is another indicator of how superior his durability is)

. Problem is, batman is capable of breaking bones

With his padded suit on. He doesn't have that here.

but he would avoid getting hit by a man who punch through walls

The wall he punched through was a thin shitty layer, mate. Really look at that scene again.

Here Batman fights 4 people armed with Knives getting tagged once

Wow, he fought some no names with knives and still got tagged? Great job. Show the bit where he gets shot in the back of the head or majorly struggling with one of them.

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InfiniteMass

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@professorrespect:

Lol: he had one actual fight and that involved him relying on his suit to block attacks he'd be dead otherwise if they hit.

He... was fighting multiple armed opponents, if he was against an actual fighter in a universe where they face multiple opponents easily I would agree, but he's against Rocky, and in fighter/ clubber who tanks hits.

Debunked at once: Rocky's insanely fast when he needs to be

What? who has he fought that is fast?

especially dodging the likes of Clubber or Thunderlips

An infighter and a wrestler who just charged and again has absolutely zero speed feats besides a speed featless character like rocky saying he's fast for a big man?

What??

the latter of which was outright superhuman. If he needs to dodge, he will.

Everything he did in the fight can be replicated by a man of his size and strength. The only impressive part is him lifting rocky with 2 hands. Other than that he has zero showings of him being super human, and he literally beat rocky if it wasn't for Pauly hitting him in the back with a wooden chair.

Rocky can dodge, which is something Batman hasn't exactly shown very well in any official setting.

This has to be a joke debate for you right?

No Caption Provided

Literally takes on 3 people without getting hit, and dodges a 2 strikes from a knife fighter who blind sides him. and then continues to pulled off a better move than Thunderlips lmao.

Your debating sucks here

With his padded suit on. He doesn't have that here.

He... he didn't use his suite to bream the bones, he literally only used his own strength, wtf do you mean

The wall he punched through was a thin shitty layer, mate. Really look at that scene again.

I did and I have no idea what you are talking about, you can literally see he breaks through drywall and reinforced wood., why don't you try to do something like that and get back to me.

Wow, he fought some no names with knives and still got tagged? Great job. Show the bit where he gets shot in the back of the head or majorly struggling with one of them.

Show me Rocky fighting more than 1 opponent at a time?

Rocky is by no means a martial arts genius so i don't know why you are trying to downplay him here because of his fight against 10 people which is above anything Rocky has ever done, not to mentioned they where armed with guns and knives and Rocky gets hit by boxers on the regular, even no name boxers as well defending his title.

There is no reason for you to believe Rocky is even close to being the same fighter, and you haven't given a single shred of proof of him being "fast" when being fast literally isn't a thing an in fighter typically concentrates on, not to mention he is a brawler who is tagged in every single on of his fights. SO why Batman getting tagged is such a sticking point with you when he's up against a person who's fighting style involves getting tagged.

I... I think this belongs to you

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InfiniteMass

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@graysonblake: His entire debate in this thread is a mess which makes me wonder if he's joking or not

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect:

Lol: he had one actual fight and that involved him relying on his suit to block attacks he'd be dead otherwise if they hit.

He... was fighting multiple armed opponents

Which he used prep and was still tagged numerous times by them. In this case, fighting numerous foes and needing to be carried by a suit is pretty bad.

Debunked at once: Rocky's insanely fast when he needs to be

What? who has he fought that is fast

Bit silly here mate, his main rival was insanely fast and was shown as such all other the place.

especially dodging the likes of Clubber or Thunderlips

An infighter and a wrestler who just charged and again has absolutely zero speed feats

Both have pretty solid speed feats for their verse that they are in.

the latter of which was outright superhuman. If he needs to dodge, he will.

Everything he did in the fight can be replicated by a man of his size and strength

Can I see this in action?

Rocky can dodge, which is something Batman hasn't exactly shown very well in any official setting.

This has to be a joke debate for you right

What part of this is "dodging well"? He parries some knife shots with the suit.

With his padded suit on. He doesn't have that here.

He... he didn't use his suite to bream the bones

Actually the suit enhances his strength across the board: this is a old point I already address with my debate with Frozen on the matter.

The wall he punched through was a thin shitty layer, mate. Really look at that scene again.

I did and I have no idea what you are talking about

You probably need to look at it harder then. It's a old wall and breaks rather easily.

Wow, he fought some no names with knives and still got tagged? Great job. Show the bit where he gets shot in the back of the head or majorly struggling with one of them.

Show me Rocky fighting more than 1 opponent at a time?

He's a boxer? Why would a boxer be fighting 12 people at a time?

There is no reason for you to believe Rocky is even close to being the same fighter

Show me feats of Bruce doing anything Rocky can without his suit? Can't? Hard times.

I... I think this belongs to you

Dated meme, fits the dated points well.

@infinitemass said:

@graysonblake: His entire debate in this thread is a mess which makes me wonder if he's joking or not

He's probably joking because he tried making a case for MCU Captain Marvel beating Reeve Superman, then the thread was locked for spite, lol.

The thread was locked because no one could accurately make a good point for Reeve outside of "well he lifts heavy objects and has good travel speed" which was something you'd know quite well. Locks are done on a collective basis anyway, not on a argumentative one.

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ProfessorRespect

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#29  Edited By ProfessorRespect
@graysonblake said:

@professorrespect: It's obvious Reeve stomps the fodder of course, with superior strength, hax, speed, etc. His durability is large planetary+ for his moon push.

You clearly didn't read the last time it was debated then as all of that was debunked without a whiff of a proper counterargument. Going off topic anyway.

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PawlNewman01

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Rocky could probably ought a win in a boxing match, Bruce easily wins in a street fight.

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InfiniteMass

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@professorrespect:

Which he used prep and was still tagged numerous times by them. In this case, fighting numerous foes and needing to be carried by a suit is pretty bad.

He didn't prep for days or something, he literally managed to make a plan within minutes of fighting them to save Supermans mom, wtf is this about prep.

And sure, for a superhero in a movie, but not a single person, Rocky included could ever replicate the feat, so why you thinking it's unimpressive, that has nothing to do with it since the person he is fighting can't even come close to replicating the same feat.

Bit silly here mate, his main rival was insanely fast and was shown as such all other the place.

What? Apollo?

Apollo has a different fighting style which mimics Muhammad Ali, again proof of speed feats. all you have done this entire time is say, well x character is faster and have zero proof to backup any of your claims. Being a fast boxer means absolutely nothing.

Both have pretty solid speed feats for their verse that they are in.

No, Rocky doesn't have speed feats, Batman actually does.

Actually the suit enhances his strength across the board: this is a old point I already address with my debate with Frozen on the matter.

How does it enhance his strength, its a kevelar suit, that makes no sense. Please explain this point, you cant just say something like this and expect me to take it at face value.

Can I see this in action?

No Caption Provided

Those were all common wrestle moves btw that they do consistently. And to make matters worse, again, he never beat him in the end, they only went 1 round together.

What part of this is "dodging well"? He parries some knife shots with the suit.

No Caption Provided

In the gif I literally just showed you he didn't parry anything, he literally dodged them after beating down 3 opponents. Watch again but open your eyes clearly son

Dodges a knife attack twice after uppercutting a guy.

You probably need to look at it harder then. It's a old wall and breaks rather easily.

Again, try breaking through an "old" wall and get back to me.

He's a boxer? Why would a boxer be fighting 12 people at a time?

Then why on gods earth would you bring up batman getting tagged while fighting multiple people as some sort of anti feat

Come on bro, you sound stupid right now.

Show me feats of Bruce doing anything Rocky can without his suit? Can't? Hard times.

You mean Box?

Why would i need him to box without the suite, he suite doesn't grant him magical fighting experience. Rocky has no solid feats to suggest he is nothing more than an athletic human.

Dated meme, fits the dated points well.

At least my dated points also have feats which you have failed to show at all.

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ProfessorRespect

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#33  Edited By ProfessorRespect
@infinitemass said:

@professorrespect:

Which he used prep and was still tagged numerous times by them. In this case, fighting numerous foes and needing to be carried by a suit is pretty bad.

He didn't prep for days or something, he literally managed to make a plan within minutes of fighting them to save Supermans mom

Which included prep involving gear and a suit primed to take all of the abuse?

Rocky included could ever replicate the feat

You guys keep saying this like it's a killer point. This isn't "who can beat the most people with top line gear" it's a boxing match. Show me feats of Bruce doing stuff without a suit carrying him.

Bit silly here mate, his main rival was insanely fast and was shown as such all other the place.

What? Apollo?

Apollo has a different fighting style which mimics Muhammad Ali, again proof of speed feats. all you have done this entire time is say, well x character is faster and have zero proof to backup any of your claims. Being a fast boxer means absolutely nothing.

Both have pretty solid speed feats for their verse that they are in.

No, Rocky doesn't have speed feats, Batman actually does.

Actually the suit enhances his strength across the board: this is a old point I already address with my debate with Frozen on the matter.

How does it enhance his strength, its a kevelar suit, that makes no sense. Please explain this point, you cant just say something like this and expect me to take it at face value.

Can I see this in action?

Those were all common wrestle moves

That weren't cooperative. Wrestling isn't real fella, lifting someone over your head without the person helping you is near impossible unless you are Eddie Hall, who's one of the strongest men on Earth and a insane outlier, even then you can clearly see from the video that the guy is tiny and was helped up. He's definitely superhuman.

What part of this is "dodging well"? He parries some knife shots with the suit.

In the gif I literally just showed you he didn't parry anything

He parried the knife attacks, which is what you referenced.

You probably need to look at it harder then. It's a old wall and breaks rather easily.

Again, try breaking through an "old" wall

This isn't a counterpoint. If we were going by what the average Viner could do, nothing here would be remotely possible.

He's a boxer? Why would a boxer be fighting 12 people at a time?

Then why on gods earth would you bring up batman getting tagged

Because you guys are acting like he's insanely fast when he's being carried by his suit through the whole thing etc

Come on bro, you sound stupid

Show me feats of Bruce doing anything Rocky can without his suit? Can't? Hard times.

You mean Box?

Yeah? Where's the feats?

Why would i need him to box without the suite

Because the suit enhances his durability, his striking, whatnot. It gives him a insane advantage. What does Bruce have suitless to suggest he wins?

Rocky has no solid feats to suggest he is nothing more than an athletic human.

This in particular is a pretty terrible point. Rocky's whole Drago fight would be enough to solo any IRL human outright, especially given the latter's punching power. You don't need to lowball to try to make a good point.

Dated meme, fits the dated points well.

At least my dated points

Concession accepted, read the Rocky RT etc

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Dre_Savage

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Kinda hard to break down because we haven’t seen Bats use solely boxing moves. The warehouse scene is more mixed martial arts than boxing. Also, he took on fodder henchmen; Rocky fought accomplished fighters (and again, solely boxing), so there’s no real way to gauge it. Add on that DCEU Bats fought in his suits; so we don’t know how much offense/defense was added to taking/receiving hits. MCU Black Panther and Cap have feats without their suits to better gauge their fighting skills without added protective/offensive gear- Bats doesn’t. You really can’t tell what he’s bringing to the table.

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InfiniteMass

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@professorrespect:

Which included prep involving gear and a suit primed to take all of the abuse?

Thats his standard gear, wth are you talking about, he literally only minutes to find clarks mom

You guys keep saying this like it's a killer point. This isn't "who can beat the most people with top line gear" it's a boxing match. Show me feats of Bruce doing stuff without a suit carrying him.

I literally brought it up in the first place because you are making light of Bruce being tagged, as if Rocky in a similar situation would do even close to as good.

That weren't cooperative. Wrestling isn't real fella, lifting someone over your head without the person helping you is near impossible unless you are Eddie Hall, who's one of the strongest men on Earth and a insane outlier, even then you can clearly see from the video that the guy is tiny and was helped up. He's definitely superhuman.

:/, Batman literally did the same thing in the gif i showed you like twice now

Also are you just going to ignore all my arguments?

He parried the knife attacks, which is what you referenced.

No Caption Provided

Again, open your eyes son, he hits 3 people and then dodges a Knife attack from his blind side. Stop being so dense jeezz

This isn't a counterpoint. If we were going by what the average Viner could do, nothing here would be remotely possible.

You are saying it's an old wall like it's not impressive, if it;s not impressive to you, then clearly you can replicate this feat. Thats my point, but clearly like everything else i have said it's gone over you head.

Because you guys are acting like he's insanely fast when he's being carried by his suit through the whole thing etc

Proof his suite increase his reaction time

Regardless that isn't the point, the point is he is clearly capable of taking on multiple opponents at the same time which requires significant speed.

Yeah? Where's the feats?

I showed them to you, but based on your baseless claims that Batman becomes superhuman with his suite based on zero information on what the hell you mean, doing anything more would be equivalent to talking to a wall.

Because the suit enhances his durability, his striking, whatnot. It gives him a insane advantage. What does Bruce have suitless to suggest he wins?

Still zero proof for this. Cops wear vest all the time yet their reaction speed and fighting doesn't increase. Yes I know he has an entire suite, but only his helmet and his Wrist are ever shown to be bullet proof, literally he gets stabbed by a knife, so his entire body is still subject to a ton a punishment.

This in particular is a pretty terrible point. Rocky's whole Drago fight would be enough to solo any IRL human outright, especially given the latter's punching power. You don't need to lowball to try to make a good point.

I'll be honest, I forgot about Drago's punching power, but thats it, in no instance does Rocky or Drago show anything besides incredible punching strength. Considering Rocky is an in fighter, and Batman clearly is a counter fighter in his fight scene, he would be a horrible matchup on that basis as well. I believe all of Rockys wins where against in fighters with the exception of Apollo, but they both were evenly matched until Drago came, and most of him losing had to do with him being extremely cocky.

Concession accepted, read the Rocky RT etc

  • Ignores majority of my points despite the fact I respond to his
  • Has offered zero feats, but tells me to look at the RT because he clearly can't argue anything himself
  • Say I conceded?

Nice, you fit all the qualifications for clown school

https://www.theclownschool.com/

Now you can cry again about being being made fun of by "outdated" jokes, boohoo

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InfiniteMass

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@graysonblake: An then he says i conceited when he literally offered no info to the points I was making. I'm not the only one seeing how stupid that is right?

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SirDragonFly

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Batman stomps in 3 seconds, mismatch

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect:

Which included prep involving gear and a suit primed to take all of the abuse?

Thats his standard gear, wth are you talking about

His "standard gear" wouldn't be eligible in a boxing match. Feel free to ask the OP if you think otherwise.

You guys keep saying this like it's a killer point. This isn't "who can beat the most people with top line gear" it's a boxing match. Show me feats of Bruce doing stuff without a suit carrying him.

I literally brought it up in the first place because you are making light of Bruce being tagged

Because he would've died if not for the gear protecting him. Guy got stabbed multiple times and shot in the head. It's not exactly a good feat.

That weren't cooperative. Wrestling isn't real fella, lifting someone over your head without the person helping you is near impossible unless you are Eddie Hall, who's one of the strongest men on Earth and a insane outlier, even then you can clearly see from the video that the guy is tiny and was helped up. He's definitely superhuman.

:/, Batman literally did the same thing in the gif

He used momentum to Rock Bottom someone. That's not "lifting someone over your head" so bad example.

This isn't a counterpoint. If we were going by what the average Viner could do, nothing here would be remotely possible.

You are saying it's an old wall like it's not impressive

It isn't, the wall is not well reinforced at all and comes apart easily.

if it;s not impressive to you, then clearly you can replicate this feat

This makes zero sense. If someone thinks that Thanos getting hit by Spidey isn't impressive and someone goes "do better" that would make as little sense as it does here. IRL examples in general are a bad point.

Because you guys are acting like he's insanely fast when he's being carried by his suit through the whole thing etc

Proof his suite

His suit does what?

Yeah? Where's the feats?

I showed them to you

Without the suit as I mentioned in the post above?

Because the suit enhances his durability, his striking, whatnot. It gives him a insane advantage. What does Bruce have suitless to suggest he wins?

Still zero proof for this

I already referred your friend to a older debate I had on the matter with Frozen. I'd rather not repeat myself so I'd suggest looking that up instead of ignoring any chance to check references so you can moan more.

literally he gets stabbed by a knife

I'd take one knife stab in good armor over getting punched in the face 300+ times by someone like Drago.

so his entire body is still subject to a ton a punishment.

This in particular is a pretty terrible point. Rocky's whole Drago fight would be enough to solo any IRL human outright, especially given the latter's punching power. You don't need to lowball to try to make a good point.

I'll be honest, I forgot about Drago's punching power, but thats it, in no instance does Rocky or Drago show anything besides incredible punching strength

Outside of insane durability and endurance, tremendous skill considering Drago was a world champion both before and after Rocky 4, etc etc.

Considering Rocky is an in fighter, and Batman clearly is a counter fighter

Batman's boxing experience feats?

Concession accepted, read the Rocky RT etc

Ignores majority of my points despite the fact I respond to his

I've seen all of your arguments just fine.

Has offered zero feats, but tells me to look at the RT

Because the RT has literally all the feats worth mentioning. I'm not wasting time by sticking stuff from there to here when a Google search takes 2 seconds.

Nice, you fit all the qualifications for clown school

Nice dated reference.

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@professorrespect:

His "standard gear" wouldn't be eligible in a boxing match. Feel free to ask the OP if you think otherwise.

You are talking about his prep for his fight against the mercenaries. Literally i told you he didn't prep much for the fight, this has nothing to do with the boxing, but on your insistint whining about his feat against the mercenaries being bad.

Because he would've died if not for the gear protecting him. Guy got stabbed multiple times and shot in the head. It's not exactly a good feat.

He got stobbed once and shot twice, second of this is literally the entire point of saying Rocky could never replicate this feat

You say, he did a bad job against mercenaries, and in the same breath say, "well rocky doesn't need to have feats like that"

Wth is your point then.

He used momentum to Rock Bottom someone. That's not "lifting someone over your head" so bad example.

Gosh, again, clearly you don't understand how difficult it is to do what he did, regular humans can't even do that, lifting someone over your head who is half your size and FYI, Hulk Hogan actually lifted him in the movie. That's a normal ass feat for someone who is twice his size , super human my ass.

Batman Lifted him after grabbing him like a judo throw, there was no momentum of movement.

His suit does what?

That it enhances his strength

You said:

With his suit on that refines his strength?

Basically, you are saying his suite gives him a boost of strength. Prove it.

This makes zero sense. If someone thinks that Thanos getting hit by Spidey isn't impressive and someone goes "do better" that would make as little sense as it does here. IRL examples in general are a bad point.

Thanos isn't a real thing, you would base that off his durability feats you dingus.

A wall is a real thing, I am telling you, a normal human cannot break through a wall like that no issue, and you are pretending it's not impressive.

I already referred your friend to a older debate I had on the matter with Frozen. I'd rather not repeat myself so I'd suggest looking that up instead of ignoring any chance to check references so you can moan more.

Link it dude, don't tell me to go "look it up", if you are going to use such low effort arguments on a debating forum, save the rest of us who actually want to debate some time and just say you aren't interested in a debate. I am actually putting effort into this by clipping gifs and looking into info. Yet your arguments ammount to nothing more than "look it up".

If this is the best your are going to offer, don't debate at all and save the rest of us the annoyance.

I'd take one knife stab in good armor over getting punched in the face 300+ times by someone like Drago.

Problem is, Drago nor Rocky would hit him actually. Before you say "hes faster" and then offer zero proof as to why, Even when Batman got Stabbed he still continued to fight, so it didn't knock him out or incapacitate him. And FYI, getting stabbed in your shoulder is very deadly, as a former EMT i have dealt with Stab wounds plenty, and I will take getting knocked the f out over getting stabbed any day.

This in particular is a pretty terrible point. Rocky's whole Drago fight would be enough to solo any IRL human outright, especially given the latter's punching power. You don't need to lowball to try to make a good point.

That was his strongest punch, not his standard Jab, watch the movie and you will see Drago doesn't trow many straights like he did to judge his punch power. If you know anything about boxing, you should know that at least boxers aren't consistently throwing their strongest punch as they would gass themselves out. And this is a 15 round match.

Outside of insane durability and endurance, tremendous skill considering Drago was a world champion both before and after Rocky 4, etc etc.

Yeah, he's a really good infighter, but like i stated multiple times already, Batman is a counter fighter, or in other words and Infighters worst nightmare. He can take the punishment but he isn't hitting someone who could dodge attacks from multiple people at the same time. No matter how many times he got tagged in the fight (5 times), that is still far above rocky who gets tagged in literally every single boxing match he's had.

Batman's boxing experience feats?

Concession accepted, read the Rocky RT etc

We see him use Boxing and Judo in his fight against the armed mercenaries. So there you go, his boxing and standup is good enough to take on armed opponents. Which if you know anything, it is extremely stupid to fight someone with a knife no matter how good of a fighter you are.

Difference here is these people kill for a living and were trying to kill Batman, while Rocky fights in regulated matches.

I've seen all of your arguments just fine.

And can't respond to my points besides "look it up"

Because the RT has literally all the feats worth mentioning. I'm not wasting time by sticking stuff from there to here when a Google search takes 2 seconds.

Why even debate then? we could just literally end this by posting the RT for both respected characters and not even say anything else. Again, if your argument is going to amount to nothing more than "lOoK iT UP", then don't bother debating in the first place.

Nice dated reference.

Ooo, cry me a river

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@professorrespect:

His "standard gear" wouldn't be eligible in a boxing match. Feel free to ask the OP if you think otherwise.

You are talking about his prep for his fight against the mercenaries

Of which he did. He used gear and whatnot to prep before the fight started.

Because he would've died if not for the gear protecting him. Guy got stabbed multiple times and shot in the head. It's not exactly a good feat.

He got stobbed once and shot twice

Of which he would be dead if the suit wasn't carrying him.

He used momentum to Rock Bottom someone. That's not "lifting someone over your head" so bad example.

Gosh, again, clearly you don't understand how difficult it is to do what he did, regular humans can't even do that

Regular humans can't lift someone into a Rock Bottom? That's not exactly true: a Rock Bottom is merely picking someone up for a side slam, known as a Uranage, which is a common Judo move. Normal people do them all the time if you look online, it's the whole point of Judo.

lifting someone over your head who is half your size and FYI, Hulk Hogan actually lifted him in the movie

Milltary Press, yes. Not the same as a Rock Bottom.

His suit does what?

That it enhances his strength

Which it does. I've referenced some pointers in a earlier debate as stated multiple times.

This makes zero sense. If someone thinks that Thanos getting hit by Spidey isn't impressive and someone goes "do better" that would make as little sense as it does here. IRL examples in general are a bad point.

Thanos isn't a real thing

You get the point. Using IRL examples is only going to confuse you more.

A wall is a real thing, I am telling you, a normal human cannot break through a wall like that no issue

A thin wall with no plaster or reinforcement?

and you are pretending it's not impressive.

I already referred your friend to a older debate I had on the matter with Frozen. I'd rather not repeat myself so I'd suggest looking that up instead of ignoring any chance to check references so you can moan more.

Link it dude, don't tell me to go "look it up"

It's pretty easy to find if you look around.

I'd take one knife stab in good armor over getting punched in the face 300+ times by someone like Drago.

Problem is, Drago nor Rocky would hit him actually

By the fact that random guys were stabbing him? Boxing feats for Batman?

This in particular is a pretty terrible point. Rocky's whole Drago fight would be enough to solo any IRL human outright, especially given the latter's punching power. You don't need to lowball to try to make a good point.

That was his strongest punch

Of which Rocky took hundreds upon hundreds of them.

Outside of insane durability and endurance, tremendous skill considering Drago was a world champion both before and after Rocky 4, etc etc.

Yeah, he's a really good infighter, but like i stated multiple times already, Batman is a counter fighter

Proof for Batman's counter boxer experience? That's not going over the fact that his armor makes this supposed style a lot easier to accomplish.

Batman's boxing experience feats?

Concession accepted, read the Rocky RT etc

We see him use Boxing and Judo in his fight against the armed mercenaries

Where do we see him boxing?

I've seen all of your arguments just fine.

And can't respond to my points

I just did.

Because the RT has literally all the feats worth mentioning. I'm not wasting time by sticking stuff from there to here when a Google search takes 2 seconds.

Why even debate then?

You can debate while Googling, I hope.

we could just literally end this by posting the RT for both respected characters and not even say anything else

You can't argue while looking at feats?

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@professorrespect:

Of which he did. He used gear and whatnot to prep before the fight started.

And he only had his standard gear and had barely time to prep which was my point. He didn't get a chance to make a huge plan to take everyone out like what prep usually means.

Of which he would be dead if the suit wasn't carrying him.

Yeah, most people would be, whats your point?

Regular humans can't lift someone into a Rock Bottom? That's not exactly true: a Rock Bottom is merely picking someone up for a side slam, known as a Uranage, which is a common Judo move. Normal people do them all the time if you look online, it's the whole point of Judo.

Judo requires you taking their legs or throwing them over your shoulder. A rock bottom requires taking out their legs underneath them and dropping them on their back.

Batman lifted him and threw him in the opposite direction, that isn't a rock bottom

No Caption Provided

This is a rock bottom

No Caption Provided

And is typically assisted by the other wrestler.

So no, people don't "do this all the time"

Milltary Press, yes. Not the same as a Rock Bottom.

He didn't preform a rock bottom, he lifted him above his head in a military press.

Which it does. I've referenced some pointers in a earlier debate as stated multiple times.

I've re read your previous comment multiple times, at no point do you address this other than stating it does and telling me to "look it up" when I asked for actual evidence.

By the fact that random guys were stabbing him? Boxing feats for Batman?

The gifs I posted show batman use boxing for the majority of his standup, what you mean feats for batman. He was facing armed people, not another person hand to hand which is obviously much easier to do especially if regulated.

You get the point. Using IRL examples is only going to confuse you more.

Clearly you have no idea the point I am making, busting through a wall is something a human can actually attempt, fighting Thanos isn't. You say it unimpressive despite a person needing a high amount of strength to do so, this is a quantifiable feat because it's material that exist in real life. How you don't get how you example is way off basis is the only confusing part.

A thin wall with no plaster or reinforcement?

and you are pretending it's not impressive.

You don't reinforce a wall with wood inbetween if it's only thin plaster you dingus

It's pretty easy to find if you look around.

"lOok IT Up"

Of which Rocky took hundreds upon hundreds of them.

He didn't get punched hundreds of times by drago, he did in his career, but so do most boxers so.

Proof for Batman's counter boxer experience? That's not going over the fact that his armor makes this supposed style a lot easier to accomplish.

No Caption Provided

Upper cut a charging opponent, southpaw jab followed by a straight in standup.

This i exactly how an out fighter/ counter fighter fights.

Also how does his suite make him a better counter fighter?

The point of counter fighting is to not get hit, if anything having a suite of armor would make you more suited to be an in fighter lmao.

Where do we see him boxing?

His entire standup is comprised of boxing, jabs straights, hooks and upper cuts. It's pretty standard for most people stand up games.

I just did.

Look it up isn't a response

You can debate while Googling, I hope.

Imagine being in a debate and telling someone to google it. A debate is between the debaters and how good of an argument they can make, not on who looks up information. If this is the extent of your debating, save me the replies.

You can't argue while looking at feats?

I shouldn't have to, if a person is making a claim they should be able to back it up themselves otherwise they are wasting everyone's times.

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@professorrespect:

Of which he did. He used gear and whatnot to prep before the fight started.

And he only had his standard gear and had barely time to prep which was my point

Sure, I never said otherwise. He still had to prep.

Regular humans can't lift someone into a Rock Bottom? That's not exactly true: a Rock Bottom is merely picking someone up for a side slam, known as a Uranage, which is a common Judo move. Normal people do them all the time if you look online, it's the whole point of Judo.

Judo requires you taking their legs or throwing them over your shoulder

That's a Uranage mate, the twisting motion of which Batman does is a main feature of the move lol.

This is a rock bottom

Yep.

So no, people don't "do this all the time"

There's highlight videos of Uranage's in action that aren't assisted.

Milltary Press, yes. Not the same as a Rock Bottom.

He didn't preform a rock bottom, he lifted him above his head in a military press

Great! That's what I said above. A military Press usually requires assistance from the other person to get them up, which wasn't the case there.

Which it does. I've referenced some pointers in a earlier debate as stated multiple times.

I've re read your previous comment multiple times, at no point do you address this other

I've referenced the earlier debate, so I would say look it up for those in detail.

By the fact that random guys were stabbing him? Boxing feats for Batman?

The gifs I posted show batman use boxing for the majority of his standup

What part is boxing?

You get the point. Using IRL examples is only going to confuse you more.

Clearly you have no idea the point I am making, busting through a wall is something a human can actually attempt

Sure, but the whole "can you do it" is a bit silly. We can't do 90% of what street tiers can, that doesn't make it therefore impressive.

A thin wall with no plaster or reinforcement?

and you are pretending it's not impressive.

You don't reinforce a wall with wood inbetween

As you can see from your screenshots, the wall is pretty thin and not at all a proper reinforced one.

It's pretty easy to find if you look around.

"lOok IT Up"

If you can, sure.

Of which Rocky took hundreds upon hundreds of them.

He didn't get punched hundreds of times by drago

Going as much as he did the entire time, he was punched 236 times on screen, not counting off screen rounds between the highlight reel. That's sensational stuff and wasn't done with reinforced armor.

Proof for Batman's counter boxer experience? That's not going over the fact that his armor makes this supposed style a lot easier to accomplish.

Upper cut a charging opponent, southpaw jab followed by a straight in standup

Seems alright, but I'm not seeing any proper technique beyond basic big shots.

Where do we see him boxing?

His entire standup is comprised of boxing, jabs straights, hooks and upper cuts

Proof? The only showcase of this is 3 seconds of footage.

You can debate while Googling, I hope.

Imagine being in a debate and telling someone to google it

Google for major resources that can assist your knowledge of debating here? I would say that's a important part.

A debate is between the debaters

And their resources, naturally. This isn't Discord where people have to make up stuff and throw sources on the spot, I would hope. You should be more than capable of reading the source material.

You can't argue while looking at feats?

otherwise they are wasting everyone's times

You don't have to waste your time if you don't want to do so.

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@professorrespect:

That's a Uranage mate, the twisting motion of which Batman does is a main feature of the move lol.

First you say it's a rock bottom, now it's a Uranage(which it isn't)

An Uranage comprises of you using your weight to bring both you and your opponent to the ground, batman didn't do that, he deadass choke slamed him after flipping him over his shoulder.

Uranage in practice

Loading Video...

In the Movie

No Caption Provided

That's not the same move and Batman's actual move takes far more strength. So no, again for the 3rd time, it's not something people do or can do casually.

here's highlight videos of Uranage's in action that aren't assisted.

Uranage is never "assisted", that would literally break the point of Judo, and a Rock Bottom and a Uranage are far different. And Uranage requires you to use your opponents momentum, but you also sacrifice yourself by falling backward.

You were really confident about bringing that up to lmao

Great! That's what I said above. A military Press usually requires assistance from the other person to get them up, which wasn't the case there.

Hulk Hogan didn't need his assistance, but Rocky actually did when the originally filmed the scene, because hulk hogan almost being a foot taller makes it a lot easier from him to lift him up vs the opposite.

I've referenced the earlier debate, so I would say look it up for those in detail.

Referenced with no link to at all, cool, that's not an argument, it's just another "look it up" moment from you :/

What part is boxing?

Jabs, Haymakers and uppercuts. Should be pretty obvious unless you never scene boxing before.

Sure, but the whole "can you do it" is a bit silly. We can't do 90% of what street tiers can, that doesn't make it therefore impressive.

Depending on the character they are facing it would. I wouldn't say Batman's feat is impressive if he was fighting Black widow, but against Rocky, yeah no doubt.

As you can see from your screenshots, the wall is pretty thin and not at all a proper reinforced one.

It's two walls of plaster reinforced by wood, depending on the environment and state of the building, that would be a pretty common wall and would be difficult for even a peak human to break through it.

If you can, sure.

No, I don't think it's much of a debate if I actually explain my point in detail and provide evidence, but at the same time need to look up your evidence to prove your point?

Going as much as he did the entire time, he was punched 236 times on screen, not counting off screen rounds between the highlight reel. That's sensational stuff and wasn't done with reinforced armor.

In a boxing match, slower measured fights between heavyweights tend to come in at 30 punches a round or less, while faster, fights in the lower weight classes can contain as many as a 100 punches per round. Given the average between the two extremes of the spectrum and multiplying it by a twelve-round bout, you’ve got an average of 780 punches thrown between two people at an average of 65 punches per round.

https://shortboxing.com/average-punches-in-a-boxing-match/

Honestly, not that impressive as far as boxing goes.

Seems alright, but I'm not seeing any proper technique beyond basic big shots.

Jab isn't a big shot, and in fighters/sluggers usually rely on big shots anyways so whats your point?

Proof? The only showcase of this is 3 seconds of footage.

Yeah, 3 seconds of him using boxing techniques, you asked for footage of him boxing and i provided(could of just told you to look it up). You never specified it needed to be a certain amount of time.

Plus Rocky is a better boxer, he's a professional. The issue is, Batman hits hard enough to damage him, and he's faster as he showcased to dodge multiple opponents at once which is significantly better than dodging 1 fighter at a time.

Google for major resources that can assist your knowledge of debating here? I would say that's a important part.

I use google to find information to prove my point, that's why it's a good resource, not so I can tell the person who I am debating to prove my point for me. That's just lazy.

And their resources, naturally. This isn't Discord where people have to make up stuff and throw sources on the spot, I would hope. You should be more than capable of reading the source material.

You haven't linked or offered that source material, and no, telling me to look at an RT isn't using said source material to prove a point. You are basically telling me to do your debating for my self. If I wanted to debate myself why would I get in a debate with another person?

You don't have to waste your time if you don't want to do so.

This is true, but honestly hurts my ego to give up mid way. I have a tendency to see things through to the end until the other person convinces me to change my mind or the other person concedes. Consider it one of my inabilities.

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Yeah, cause DCEU batman has shown sooo many boxing skills 🙄. Rocky kills in in s straight up boxing match.

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#46  Edited By UUTH

None of the skill feats for Batman are applicable unless there are some isolated raw boxing feats. If Batman wins then its because of durability (outside the suit) or a massive speed advantage. I am backing Rocky on this one in a one-sided bout.

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@uuth: @sanmiguel1:

Considering Batman has fought 6 people at the same time while they where all armed, he should have a significant speed edge. And Considering Rockys fight style which is an infighter, I don't see how he's going to beat batman, even if Batman is not as skilled a boxer as he his(Which he isn't). Strength, Speed, and style give Batman the edge over a brawler/ infighter like Rocky. It's just not a good matchup for him Boxing wise.

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@professorrespect:

That's a Uranage mate, the twisting motion of which Batman does is a main feature of the move lol.

First you say it's a rock bottom, now it's a Uranage(which it isn't)

I said the Rock Bottom is a Uranage: which it is, the Bottom is just modified so that it doesn't have a twist in the move like how Batman does it. As you can see, the Uranage involves such a movement.

An Uranage comprises of you using your weight to bring both you and your opponent to the ground, batman didn't do that, he deadass choke slamed him after flipping him over his shoulder.

That's just a high-end Uranage. It's not hard to see considering Batman's martial arts invfulences, unless he really likes wrestling all of a sudden.

here's highlight videos of Uranage's in action that aren't assisted.

Uranage is never "assisted"

Never stated as such.

Great! That's what I said above. A military Press usually requires assistance from the other person to get them up, which wasn't the case there.

Hulk Hogan didn't need his assistance, but Rocky actually did when the originally filmed the scene

Great! In universe that would make him superhuman, given how Rocky was billed as being 5'11 (he's not in real life) and was huge at that point: it would take a insane amount of strength to casually pick up someone as large as he was over your head and throw them out of a ring, especially when not cooperating.

I've referenced the earlier debate, so I would say look it up for those in detail.

Referenced with no link to at all

I did say you can look it up, through you don't seem to want to be able to do so.

As you can see from your screenshots, the wall is pretty thin and not at all a proper reinforced one.

It's two walls of plaster reinforced by wood, depending on the environment and state of the building, that would be a pretty common wall

It's still extremely thin and wouldn't be hard for a guy with diamond enforced gauntlets to bust through with a suit on.

Going as much as he did the entire time, he was punched 236 times on screen, not counting off screen rounds between the highlight reel. That's sensational stuff and wasn't done with reinforced armor.

In a boxing match, slower measured fights between heavyweights tend to come in at 30 punches a round or less, while faster, fights in the lower weight classes can contain as many as a 100 punches per round. Given the average between the two extremes of the spectrum and multiplying it by a twelve-round bout, you’ve got an average of 780 punches thrown between two people at an average of 65 punches per round.

Impressive IRL example, but this is a movie. Drago punching him 236 times (again, that's only counted on screen) when Drago was already a extreme heavyweight world champion who punched beyond the limits of actual boxers is far beyond any of these examples.

Plus Rocky is a better boxer, he's a professional. The issue is, Batman hits hard enough to damage him

What's Bruce's punching potency without the armor?

Google for major resources that can assist your knowledge of debating here? I would say that's a important part.

I use google to find information to prove my point

So do so. Rocky's RT is just a click away if you want to be more informed.

And their resources, naturally. This isn't Discord where people have to make up stuff and throw sources on the spot, I would hope. You should be more than capable of reading the source material.

You haven't linked or offered that source material

You can find it on Google as the top or second search. Not sure why you don't want to learn more about the fight instead of arguing one position and acting like it isn't easy to do the opposite because of "debating" which apparently you only research one conclusion?

Source is here albeit not sure if you would be able to click on it. This took about 10 seconds to do.

You don't have to waste your time if you don't want to do so.

This is true, but honestly hurts my ego

Must be hard to be you then.

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@professorrespect:

I said the Rock Bottom is a Uranage: which it is, the Bottom is just modified so that it doesn't have a twist in the move like how Batman does it. As you can see, the Uranage involves such a movement.

It isn't though, a Uranage is closer to an STO in wrestling.

That's just a high-end Uranage. It's not hard to see considering Batman's martial arts invfulences, unless he really likes wrestling all of a sudden.

No one does an Uranage like that, as the biggest upside of an uranage is scraficing your postion, there is no such thing as this being a "high end" version of that since Judo itself has limitations to what the human body can do, and a human body cannot do that without significant strength, unless you can show me a video of someone who can actually replicate it.

Never stated as such.

here's highlight videos of Uranage's in action that aren't assisted.

I inferred you meant there were Uranage that were since you were trying to show me ones that weren't.

Great! In universe that would make him superhuman, given how Rocky was billed as being 5'11 (he's not in real life) and was huge at that point: it would take a insane amount of strength to casually pick up someone as large as he was over your head and throw them out of a ring, especially when not cooperating.

An inch taller? so what, and he is still only 178 pounds and was stunned when he lifted him up, not much struggling from him.

No Caption Provided

When don't even see how he lifts him up too so again, you are wrong.

I did say you can look it up, through you don't seem to want to be able to do so.

Do you understand burden of proof, you make a claim, you need to back up that claim. Thats how a debate works, you don't tell someone to look it up unless you are unable to back up your claim which seems to be the case here. You are unable to make your claims and back them up, and rely on me looking for your debates to prove your points and take your word for?

Seems to me you've conceded since you are incapable of backing your arguments.

It's still extremely thin and wouldn't be hard for a guy with diamond enforced gauntlets to bust through with a suit on.

Clearly again, you have no idea what your talking about, reinforcing your hands doesn't increase your strength, it only allows you to uses the max of your strength without fear of injury, which is literally the reason Boxers wear gloves for the same reason, they don't punch harder, they protect their hands.

Impressive IRL example, but this is a movie. Drago punching him 236 times (again, that's only counted on screen) when Drago was already a extreme heavyweight world champion who punched beyond the limits of actual boxers is far beyond any of these examples.

True, tanking the punches from Drago is better than IRL boxers, but I was talking about the amount of punches him taking in the ring is similar to a lot of boxers. Also there are a magnitude of hits he took, jabs, hooks, uppercuts. This means not even the entirety of those punches were at max strength, because literally boxers don't fight like that.

What's Bruce's punching potency without the armor?

Shouldn't matter unless the suit specifically increases his power. Both him and Rocky will be wearing Gloves to protect their hands.

So do so. Rocky's RT is just a click away if you want to be more informed.

I've already read Rocky's RT, i'm not arguing against the points in the RT, but the points you are making against Batman. You could literally copy and paste that here, are you that lazy?

You can find it on Google as the top or second search. Not sure why you don't want to learn more about the fight instead of arguing one position and acting like it isn't easy to do the opposite because of "debating" which apparently you only research one conclusion?

A debate is between two people to concisely argue their positions, at no point should i have to find information about the claims you are making. You have the burden of proof, offer your proof.

Clearly you have no point to be made since you can't even bother to make a concise argument. Instead you expect me to find your arguments in the RT.

Must be hard to be you then.

Not really, debating is a fun way for me to pass the time when I am off duty.

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@professorrespect:

I said the Rock Bottom is a Uranage: which it is, the Bottom is just modified so that it doesn't have a twist in the move like how Batman does it. As you can see, the Uranage involves such a movement.

It isn't though, a Uranage is closer to an STO in wrestling

STO is a completely different thing in which the person is tripped over and there's no lifting involved. No idea where the comparison comes from.

That's just a high-end Uranage. It's not hard to see considering Batman's martial arts invfulences, unless he really likes wrestling all of a sudden.

No one does an Uranage like that

Welcome to comic book movies, I guess?

as the biggest upside of an uranage is scraficing your postion

Batman's position changes as he does it if you notice.

Great! In universe that would make him superhuman, given how Rocky was billed as being 5'11 (he's not in real life) and was huge at that point: it would take a insane amount of strength to casually pick up someone as large as he was over your head and throw them out of a ring, especially when not cooperating.

An inch taller? so what, and he is still only 178 pounds and was stunned when he lifted him up, not much struggling from him

Because he's so strong, naturally.

When don't even see how he lifts him up too

Right, I'm sure Rocky just let him do such a thing? Sounds a bit silly to me.

I did say you can look it up, through you don't seem to want to be able to do so.

Do you understand burden of proof, you make a claim, you need to back up that claim

As stated posts back, you can find the info rather easily and I wouldn't copy and paste info shamelessly either.

It's still extremely thin and wouldn't be hard for a guy with diamond enforced gauntlets to bust through with a suit on.

Clearly again, you have no idea what your talking about

Busting a wall with gear that assists in that would definitely help in such a thing.

reinforcing your hands doesn't increase your strength, it only allows you to uses the max of your strength

Diamond material would definitely assist in allowing to punch harder, not sure what this means.

Impressive IRL example, but this is a movie. Drago punching him 236 times (again, that's only counted on screen) when Drago was already a extreme heavyweight world champion who punched beyond the limits of actual boxers is far beyond any of these examples.

True, tanking the punches from Drago is better than IRL boxers, but I was talking about the amount of punches him taking in the ring is similar to a lot of boxers

To weaker men? Sure. Drago is a whole different case and many wouldn't be able to take even less than half of his strikes without literally dying.

What's Bruce's punching potency without the armor?

Shouldn't matter unless the suit specifically increases his power

The suit is designed to increase his strength in punching. Even Synder when wanking the guy says that and the BvS additional information docs in the DVD that state it was laced with lead in the hands and feet. You can't scale both of them for obvious reasons

So do so. Rocky's RT is just a click away if you want to be more informed.

I've already read Rocky's RT

Cool. You could've said that earlier.

You can find it on Google as the top or second search. Not sure why you don't want to learn more about the fight instead of arguing one position and acting like it isn't easy to do the opposite because of "debating" which apparently you only research one conclusion?

A debate is between two people to concisely argue their positions, at no point should i have to find information about the claims you are making

If it's easy to find, then I think it's not hard to do that. I've researched multiple positions just to figure out if someone is legit or not, it's not a scary thing like you make out.