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#1 Edited by Chronicplane (9409 posts) - - Show Bio

No Caption Provided
  • SSB Goku
  • SSB Vegeta
  • SSB Gogeta
  • SSB Vegito(Goku Black Arc)
  • SSB Copy Vegeta

vs.

No Caption Provided
  • Beerus
  • Champa
  • SSJ-Rose` Goku Black
  • Hit The Assassin
  • Anilaza

vs.

No Caption Provided
  • LSSJ Broly
  • SSJ2 Kefla
  • Merged Zamasu
  • Moscow
  • Android 17

vs.

No Caption Provided
  • Limit Breaker Jiren
  • LP Dyspo
  • Toppo
  • Sidra
  • SSG Goku

vs.

No Caption Provided
  • Golden Frieza
  • Kitera
  • Liqueur
  • SSJR Trunks(Spirit Sword)
  • SSJ Gohan

Stipulations:

  • In-Character
  • Win by any means(Hit is allowed to use his killing moves)
  • Standard gear
  • Random encounter, no prep
  • Goku black has his clones and scythe
  • No fusion(i.e, goku and vegeta can't just fuse in the middle of the fight), the only fusions that are allowed are ones that are present
  • Future Trunks has his spirit sword
  • Goku and Vegeta are restricted to MSSB only, No kaioken or evolve blue
  • Broly can keep increasing in power the moment the fight starts

Fight Takes Place:

  • All teams start visible towards eachother
  • Teams are 200 feet apart from eachother
On an indestructible planet, in the middle of the solar system
On an indestructible planet, in the middle of the solar system

Which team wins and why?

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#3 Edited by LoveEveryone (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

In order from Strongest

1- Team Blue

2- Team Purple

3- Team Red

4- Team Green

5- Team Yellow

Team Blue is the strongest due to SSJ Blue Gogeta. And if this is a hypothetical Broly Movie SSJ Blue Vegito, they definitely take this.

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#4 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

The two irrelevant teams are Jiren’s team and Frieza’s team.

Because the only mortals to date that can “Rival” the gods are Goku and Jiren. (Topo was still considered an incomplete god). MUI Goku and Jiren are only arguably god lvl. (Reason being, No one ever said that Jiren “WAS” stronger than THE gods of destruction. Whis only said vague statements about his strength, but never compared him to Beerus. Belmod only said that Jiren couldn’t be beaten. Is Jiren now stronger than the grand priest? Of course not. So it’s debatable wether or not Belmod was referring to mortals or GoD. Definitely not referring to angels or higher. And I’m gonna go under the assumption he’s not stronger than GoD, because of Whis’ Statement regarding Beerus. He specifically said, “Beerus has not yet MASTERED UI”. But guess what, neither has Goku. Maybe Beerus has mastered it to an even greater degree, just not on demand. And this would make him MUCH stronger than Jiren. UI is not a transformation, it’s a technique. Meaning Goku’s Powef Level isn’t increased by a vast margin. (Using the technique requires a high lvl of energy, but it’s not what causes the energy increase). What I’m saying is, since Beerus has a higher base energy than Goku, his UI would be on a completely different scale. He’d arguably stomp full power Jiren and MUI Goku. And Jiren is the only one on his team competing.

Frieza isn’t competing with anyone on team blue or purple either. And the gods on his team are (Anime) featless.

Broly is considered to be strong as Beerus or at least on par. Gogeta/Vegito should handle him easily still though. And I feel like Beerus should still be slightly above him. All that said, don’t see anyone else on his team making a difference besides merged Zamasu. Since he kind of was the entire universe and it took Zeno to stop him. I’d say, he’s potentially the strongest one on this list.

So teams blue/ Purple/Green are really the only ones of relevance.

It’s suggested by Whis (Anine) and in the Broly movie (By Goku’s statements to Broly) that SSB Gogeta is stronger than Beerus. And by that, we can power scale that Vegito should be stronger than Chanpa since Vados admitted that Beerus is the stronger of the two. Hit<Goku. Vegeta> SSJ Goku Black. Fake Vegeta is sting enough to mildly hold off Anilaza. But he’d end up losing daily bad. But no need to worry. Vegeta beats SSJ Goku Black relatively easily at this point and helps until one of the fusion characters can come smash him. See blue winning that.

Blue vs Green. Hate to do this, but green wins due to being the literal universe.

Broly loses to Gogeta. Kefla loses to Vegito. 17 loses to Vegeta. Featless god loses to Goku. Merged Zamazu defeats everyone.

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#5 Edited by Chronicplane (9409 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: @loveeveryone: Vegito is Goku Black Arc not current so he shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as Gogeta with current Goku/Vegeta. Anyways how do you suppose abilities like Hakai, Goku Blacks clones or Trunks's spirit sword could come into play or Hits time skip(especially since he isn't limited here) and what makes copy vegeta superior to Golden Frieza or Goku Black?

P.S GoDs have anime and manga feats.

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#6 Posted by Karkus (787 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411:

MUI Goku and Jiren are only arguably god lvl.

This shouldn't be something very arguable. There are already statements saying Jiren prior to breaking his limits reached God level and perhaps surpassed it, with surpassing the likes of Belmod.

Loading Video...

MUI Goku was stated to have power surpassing even a God.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But guess what, neither has Goku.

According to the narration he did.

No Caption Provided

UI is not a transformation, it’s a technique.

Usually, but Goku's hair color changes when he goes UI. Transformations do that, not techniques. Goku seems to have a transformation that also lets him use UI.

Meaning Goku’s Powef Level isn’t increased by a vast margin.

It must have been, as he was far superior to Base Jiren.

his UI would be on a completely different scale.

We have no idea how his UI compares to Goku's. It could just be the technique, it could be an inferior transformation.

He’d arguably stomp full power Jiren and MUI Goku.

Beerus thought MUI Goku alone might have surpassed him based on this guide.

No Caption Provided

I’d say, he’s potentially the strongest one on this list.

Infinite Zamasu doesn't have much raw power. This is an example of his blasts.

Loading Video...

They fail to kill Base Goku and Vegeta, or penetrate the Supreme Kai barriers.

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#7 Posted by DoctorDaMn (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: No the complete opposite was stated by belmond; toppo is no different than a god of destruction. Don't make up stuff just because your head canon tells you otherwise.

Hell, going off of feats which we do on these forums, toppo is stronger than all gods other than beerus, champa, belmond, and the rat since they are completely featless...

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#8 Edited by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn: @karkus: @chronicplane:

I took Vegito as in if Goku and Vegeta were to have used Potara against Broly. So whatever....

And I do remember their last fight with Black, Goku started s***ing on Black Goku. Before they fused.

Well in terms of Goku surpassing a GoD as MUI Goku, wouldn’t technically be wrong. Since Topo was GoD lvl and had no chance against MUI nor Jiren. That being said, it was said that Goku as SSB KKX20 was god lvl yet Whis stayed that Beerus was still superior. Beerus seems to think so and Goku. So just being GoD lvl doesn’t mean you’re strong as one. Just because you’ve surpassed regular god lvl doesn’t mean you’re stronger than all the gods. (Perfect ex: Vegeta and Trunks in the Android saga took on forms that ascended super Saipan lvl. Yet neither of them could take on Goku or Gohans SSJ forms??). Toppo got mashed by Vegeta’s self-explode thing. Yet, don’t see that doing anything to Beerus nor Champa based on lore. Topo is GoD lvl, so by lore MUI Goku and Jiren have surpassed that.

“According to the narration he did” - You.

Yea, and at the end of ToP he also said he hasn’t mastered it. So has he or not? He obviously hasn’t otherwise he’d use it whenever. Again, Whis specifically said Beerus hasn’t mastered meaning, he’s done it. Just not on demand. Whether he’s better at it than Goku is????? Meh...

Don’t misinterpret, I meant his actual (Base) power lvl doesn’t. His base lvls shoot up usually when he awakens a new form. SSJ his base power seemed to have increased dramatically. And hiss SSJG transformation did as well. We don’t see that with UI. Although, I did point out in my last post that it seems they need to have a certain lvl of power to achieve UI. Hence Goku having to constantly power up to awaken it. Jiren he absorbed SB energy + SSBKKX20. Kefla, just kept powering up past his limits. Final Jiren fight.....

Beerus and all the gods respected that a mortal obtained the technique. They themselves couldn’t master it. Again, Goku hasn’t either. And that form that the gods are arguably more proficient at than Goku since they’ve already been training for it for much longer. And again, it’s not a power boost in and of itself!! So Goku’s base power hasn’t changed!! Beerus’ base power is much higher. So why wouldn’t his UI be much much better.

And the Zamasu thing is relevant. Since he not only merged with it on a spacial lvl, but also in terms of time!!

I’m so glad you agree with me that Topo has no feats suggesting he can actually take on a GoD. Beerus and Champa s*** on him. Nor at any point in the anime/manga does it say flat out that Jiren is stronger than “X” GoD. Again, I’ll use this point. Just because you’ve ascended to or past a certain lvl doesn’t make you as strong as others that claim that title. For instance Goten went SSJ, can his SSJ fight evenly with Gohan? They’re both SSJ lvl.. or how about Vegeta and Trunks (Android Saga) ascending past SSJ. Can their ascended forms defeat Goku or Gohan reg SSJ forms?? Beerus, Champa, etc are like Goku/Gohan here. They’ve each trained to perfect UI for years, they’ve also mastered their GoD ki. Topo like Goten would get wrecked by a veteran user of the form. Jiren just like Trunks/Vegeta would debateably get defeated by a GoD even though he’s surpassed the bottom line lore of the title. And who knows, maybe they were talking about GoD Topo couldn’t defeat him. Wouldn’t that make sense??

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#9 Posted by DoctorDaMn (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: What?! I was just trying to make the point that god toppo would win against featless gods by default. I already know that the likes of beerus would school him...

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#10 Edited by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn:

Ok then, tell me how I’m supposed to suggest a featless character takes on SSB Vegito? Or Gogeta?

And be the least bit factual about it

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#11 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Blue should stomp considering Blue Goku > UIO Goku, and SSB Gogeta > a more powerful Goku than ToP

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#12 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio

Very interesting thread, I'll get back to this.

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#13 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio

@chronicplane: Can Goku use Blue Kaioken and Vegeta Blue Evolution, or is that a no-go?

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#14 Posted by Lord_Doom159 (322 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 wins, Team 1 has a time limit problem with the fusions without it they can win this, Team 3 has a very weak GoD and Broly is not ready yet to beat Beerus IMO, Team 4 and 5 can’t compete

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#15 Posted by Chronicplane (9409 posts) - - Show Bio

@chronicplane: Can Goku use Blue Kaioken and Vegeta Blue Evolution, or is that a no-go?

Should've specified but Goku and Vegeta are restricted to MSSB only, no Kaioken or Evolve Blue. Though are current, Vegito is Goku Black Arc.

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#16 Edited by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio

@chronicplane said:
@hittheassasin said:

@chronicplane: Can Goku use Blue Kaioken and Vegeta Blue Evolution, or is that a no-go?

Should've specified but Goku and Vegeta are restricted to MSSB only, no Kaioken or Evolve Blue. Though are current, Vegito is Goku Black Arc.

Alright, my final question would be, what on Earth is a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan, and whether Toppo can use his GoD mode?

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#17 Posted by Chronicplane (9409 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

The yellow team wins.

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#20 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

Blue wins, Gogeta and Vegito are on the team. 1 is massively above the destroyers and another is said to possibly be stronger then Beerus

Team green comes second thanks to Broly maximum growth and Mosco support, Broly is already probably stronger then Beerus, add some of that maximum growth and he is a major threat.

Team purple comes third thanks to Beerus and Champa, 2 consistent power houses however Broly is stronger than either one of them andMosco is at least close or = to either on of them

Team red comes 4th thanks to Jiren however Sidra can pull his weight a bit. Jiren alone isn't enough and Sidra is weaker then Champa and Beerus

Team Gold comes last

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#21 Posted by Chronicplane (9409 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio

This is such an interesting thread that I'll actually write a full-length analysis on how each team fairs against every other team, starting off with Team Blue.

Team Blue vs Team Purple

SSJB Goku, SSJB Goku, SSJB Copy-Vegeta, SSJB Vegito and SSJB Gogeta Vs Hit, SSJR Goku Black, Anilaza, Champa and Beerus

Like almost all of these fights, this is a very hard one. Like with practically all of the teams, we have 2 fighters on each side substantially beyond the rest of them, so I'll be splitting the fights into those two sides respectively; for this battle, that'd be SSJB Gogeta and SSJB Vegito vs Beerus and Champa, as well as SSJB Goku, Vegeta and Copy-Vegeta vs SSJR Goku Black, Hit and Aniraza. I'm of the opinion that Gogeta and Vegito should get a rather decisive victory over Beerus and Champa. Vegito is definitely GoD level, and almost equal to either Champa or Beerus simply due to the raw difference in power between him and regular SSJB's, that is apparent in literally every Potara fusion ever created throughout the series. Gogeta is outright superior to either of them by a considerable margin due to his stomping of Broly, someone who has multiple sources proclaiming him as around the level of a God of Destruction, if not superior.

However, the other section of the battle goes to Team Purple decisively. Copy Vegeta is U6-Arc SSJB level, which is something everyone on the other team has already easily dealt with. Goku and Vegeta have already demonstrated considerable inferiority to Aniraza individually in these forms, and Goku Black and Hit also have better performances against stronger characters individually, along with their hax.

In the end, this fight will almost definitely come down to SSJB Gogeta and maybe SSJB Vegito vs Goku Black, Hit and Anilaza. While I do believe Team Blue would have definitely taken more damage from their fights(along with the issue of defusing), Vegito and especially Gogeta have such a power advantage over the other team to the point that Gogeta can probably one or twoshot almost of them by himself, so they should win regardless.

All-in-all, Team Blue wins in a great fight; extreme difficulty.

Team Blue vs Team Green

SSJB Goku, SSJB Vegeta, SSJB Copy-Vegeta, SSJB Vegito and SSJB Gogeta Vs FPBroly, Merged Zamasu, SSJ2 Kefla, Moscow and A17

Splitting them up again, for this battle, it'd be Gogeta and Vegito vs Broly and Moscow, along with SSJB Goku, Vegeta and C-Vegeta vs Kefla, Zamasu and Android 17. Gogeta and Vegito would beat Broly and Moscow decisively, seeing as to how Moscow has got basically nothing to his name apart from being solidly God of Destruction level, and minimally weaker than Beerus, which puts him only around the same level as SSJB Vegito, while Gogeta has already stomped GoD tier people(incidentally, Broly himself) and will do so again here.

On the other hand, Team Green would win the other section handily. While Android 17 would lose to everyone on Team Blue except for maybe C-Vegeta, Kefla and Merged Zamasu are vastly beyond SSJB level, with both having statements and feats placing them as superior to even Kaioken Blue. Plus, both of them have already stomped SSJB's only slightly weaker than the ones they're facing here.

The final fight would be SSJB Gogeta (and maybe Vegito) vs Merged Zamasu, Kefla (and maybe A17). Once again, the same issue as last time arises. SSJB Gogeta is massively superior to any one on the Green side, and could probably solo, unless his time limit hinders him beforehand, though I reckon he would definitely have trouble with the combined might of Zamasu, Kefla and 17, he should still win.

All-in-all, Team Blue wins in a great fight again; extreme difficulty.

Team Blue vs Team Red

SSJB Goku, SSJB Vegeta, SSJB Copy-Vegeta, SSJB Vegito and SSJB Gogeta Vs LB Jiren, Sidra, Toppo, Dyspo and SSJG Goku

Right, so adressing Gogeta and Vegito vs Sidra and Jiren, that's a ridiculously close fight. Vegito's versatility, better feats and Sidra's lack of actual determination should give him a slight edge over the latter. Conversely, I think Limit Breaker Jiren and Gogeta are almost perfect equals, with maybe a slight nod to Jiren, since he was actually besting MUI Goku, someone above GoD level, albeit in a close fight. In other words, Jiren =/> Gogeta and Vegito > Sidra. This fight can go either way, it's a perfect draw, IMO.

As for Goku, Vegeta and C-Vegeta vs Toppo, Dyspo and SSJG Goku, this comes down largely to whether Toppo can transform into his God of Destruction mode and whether Dyspo can use light speed mode, which they can. SSJG Goku obviously loses to everyone in Team Blue, since they all have access to a transformation a step above his own. On the other hand, Toppo can honestly stomp everyone on Team Blue 1v1 using his GoD mode, looking at what he did to Golden Frieza, someone at least on-par with everyone on Team Blue. I'd say Dyspo can beat Copy Vegeta in a good fight, looking at his performance against Golden Frieza(slowly overwhelming him via speed), and should be at least a match for both Goku and Vegeta due to his incredible speed, even if his raw power is inferior. All-in-all, I think Team Red gets the edge here, mainly due to the other Team's inability to handle Toppo's raw power and Hakai.

In the end, I think Team Red would win in a great fight with extreme difficulty, since they're just a slight bit better on average, when looking at the sub-GoD level characters.

Team Blue vs Team Yellow

SSJB Goku, SSJB Vegeta, SSJB Copy-Vegeta, SSJB Vegito and SSJB Gogeta Vs Golden Frieza, Kitera, Liqueur, SSJR Trunks and SSJ Gohan

This fight is pretty easy to judge, IMO. You have 2 nigh-featless GoD tier characters vs one-GoD tier character and one significantly above GoD tier character(Gogeta), so Team Blue already wins in that regard.

When it comes to the weaker characters they honestly win as well, since Frieza is only equal to either Goku or Vegeta, Gohan loses decisively to anyone on Team Blue due to his position as a mere Super Saiyan, and Trunks already lost to Goku Black prior to his latest power-up, someone who's inferior to current SSJB Goku and Vegeta. The Spirit Sword is also meh, since people at Goku's level can simply dodge it and then disarm Trunks. It only worked on Zamasu in the first place because his power had gone done by a whole lot due to Vegito.

All-in-all, Team Blue wins with medium to high difficulty here.

Verdict

This analysis alone makes it pretty easy to determine who I think is strongest, since Team Blue won against everyone but Team Red. If I had to rank all of them it would go like so:

  1. Team Red, LB Jiren and GoD Toppo along with yet another average GoD is just too much for any other Team to handle, especially in combination with the SSJB+ level Dyspo.
  2. Team Blue, Gogeta and Vegito Blue are just too great a force for almost every other team to handle.
  3. Team Green/Team Purple, both have 2 solidly GoD level characters along with 2 characters waaaay beyond baseline SSJB level.
  4. Team Yellow, both have 2 solidly GoD level characters as well, but the other 3 are all at best SSJB level, with Gohan falling way below that mark.

That should sum it up. It's been a while since I've posted such a long analysis for a regular battle thread, but this one really interested me.

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#23 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

You clearly know a lot about DBS. Although I am curious, could you look at posts 4 and post 8, and see if I missed something in terms of power scaling. It’s just something I’ve been curious on. Didnt really seem like there was a strong enough statement to flat out say Jiren is stronger than Beerus nor do I think MUI Goku is. But I am curious if you heard/interpreted something I didn’t?

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#24 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

Though I do disagree with MUI Goku and Jiren being equals. Goku s*** on Jiren once he got pissed and seemed to take his power even higher. Jiren even layed down and said “I lose”.

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#25 Posted by DoctorDaMn (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: They don't; they would get stomped... Of course since they're destroyers, they are in the god tier but since they're completely featless and hypeless as well, we have to put them at the bottom of the barrel. At least vegito (black arc) has hype putting him close or equal to beerus, a top tier god... Someone like Helles hasn't done anything nor does she have any supporting character statments to back her up.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying someone like krillin would stand a chance against helles. Even though she's featless, we know she in a much higher tier than he is.

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#26 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn:

Yes, I agree with you 100% on everything. I think you misinterpreted what I meant, which would’ve been easy to do as I admittedly wasn’t clear as to what I meant.

I mean, the weakest character on team blue is fake Vegeta. And considering that, everyone else on team blue absolutely dominates Topo. And we’d have to put all these featless gods on Topo lvl since he’s the weakest GoD we’ve seen. And as you said, “Beerus is a top tier.” We can’t just have them all equal Beerus and Champa.

I’m just saying, in this fight, it’s be hard to say he beats/loses to a character since I don’t know much/anything about him. So I have to give Vegeta/Goku/Vegito/Gogeta the win over him since all of them are a good lvl or two past Topo. Which makes the featless character irrelevant due to low-ball.

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#27 Edited by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: You clearly know a lot about DBS. Although I am curious, could you look at posts 4 and post 8, and see if I missed something in terms of power scaling. It’s just something I’ve been curious on. Didnt really seem like there was a strong enough statement to flat out say Jiren is stronger than Beerus nor do I think MUI Goku is. But I am curious if you heard/interpreted something I didn’t?

I distinctly remember Whis flat out stating Jiren was strong, just like a God of Destruction, and that he had reached that state, perhaps even surpassed it. Considering he was referencing base Jiren, who's ki increased dramatically once he broke his limits, I think it's fair to say that that perhaps surpassed becomes a definitely surpassed when talking about the level of GoD and Limit Breaker Jiren. In addition, Jiren's feats are just better, both in the anime and the manga. Then there's also that databook statement that has Beerus say that MUI Goku(the one that fought Jiren just before unlocking MUI) had perhaps surpassed him and how decisively Jiren was portrayed as way above Toppo, who was already stated to be "no different from a God of Destruction". All-in-all, I just feel that Jiren and MUI Goku's feats in comparison to the level of GoD as a whole are just better than Beerus', if that makes sense.

Though I do disagree with MUI Goku and Jiren being equals. Goku s*** on Jiren once he got pissed and seemed to take his power even higher. Jiren even layed down and said “I lose”.

I agree. When I said that, I meant MUI Goku prior to powering up even further due to his love for his friends. Before that, Jiren held a clear advantage. In other words Friendsforce MUI Goku > LB Jiren > MUI Goku > Full Power Jiren.

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#28 Posted by infamous5445 (464 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Actually it was MUI Goku that Beerus thought surpassed him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenXyro/status/1026341411283763202

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#29 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8519 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Actually it was MUI Goku that Beerus thought surpassed him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenXyro/status/1026341411283763202

I see, thank you very much.

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#30 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

I was also gonna comment that it was indeed MUI that Beerus said he thought surpassed him. Which brings us to my point, Beerus thought Goku had FULL mastery over the form. In other words, could use it on demand and maintaine it. Which we all know he can’t. He can’t even use the lower levels of UI on demand. And keep in mind, Beerus said, “POSSIBLY surpassed me”. That could even be taken as Beerus thinks Goku’s suppressing his full 100% MUI power. I hate to bring this up like this, but I do feel like it’s worth at least mentioning. If one character ever surpasses another, they never say “Probably surpassed”. They say, “Wow he’s stronger than (X)”. And the whole “They’ve each surpassed GoD” thing could be referring to Goku and Jiren surpassing Topo, which they have. But that in no way insinuates that Topo can match Beerus or Champa, etc.

In closing. I’m gonna refer back to my point about the Android saga (Vegeta/Trunks both surpassed regular SSJ lvl and even got a new form to show that.) yet neither of them could defeat Goku/Gohan regular SSJ transformations. If that makes any sense? Jiren/Goku could be like the Vegeta/Trunks here, over GoD lvl, but not able to defeat a mastered GoD. Again, every time they compare Goku/Jiren to the gods it’s always SUPER SUPER VAGUE. And never flat out compare either of them to a specific god.

I would say that Beerus feats in his fight with Goku were better than ToP feats. Goku was canceling Beerus punches, yet the universe was still about to blow up. And if Beerus/Champa were to fight, they’d destroy both their universes.

Don’t get me twisted though, I completely understand your side of the power scaling breakdown. Nor am I trying to suggest what I’m saying is fact. I could honestly still be swayed to believe that Jiren/Goku are indeed stronger than Beerus. I just personally don’t feel like it. And another thing to consider, Goku never heard the discussion between Whis and Beerus about Beerus himself not mastering the MUI technique. So in Goku’s head, Beerus>MUI. And he also said Broly>= Beerus. Since Broly is canon, by this logic wouldn’t that mean Goku flat out said, “Broly>MUI>Jiren”?

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#31 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

Sorry to keep hittin you with such long posts btw 😅

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#32 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Blue should stomp considering Blue Goku > UIO Goku, and SSB Gogeta > a more powerful Goku than ToP

This is as close to being objectively wrong about power scaling in Dragon Ball as you can get. It's pretty clearly established that UIO Goku>Blue Goku. Jiren was stomping SSBKKx20 Goku yet when Goku first tapped into UIO, which was also his weakest version of Ultra Instinct, he was capable of posing more of a challenge to Jiren as noted by Piccolo.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Not to mention UIO Goku ragdolled Toppo and Dyspo, who are both SSB and SSG tier fighters respectively.

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Honestly the fact I of all people am picking you up on this is surprising.

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#33 Posted by Shadow411 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn:

Meant to tag you in my last post. Gonna ask you the same thing. Since in the ToP Goku wasn’t listening to Whis say that Beerus himself hasn’t mastered UI. And Goku keeps talking like Beerus is still stronger than himself. Wouldn’t that mean Goku thinks Beerus>MUI. And he also thinks Broly >=Beerus.

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#34 Posted by LoveEveryone (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah it’s not rocket science that Jiren is above the GoDs. The fairy tale of there being a mortal that surpasses the GoDs stated by Beerus and Whis is out there....and the mortal was most likely Jiren The Grey. All the GoDs were freaking out in the MUI Goku vs Jiren battle, almost as if they were watching two mortals that were stronger than themselves. That’s the reaction and feeling I got from it.

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#35 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (918 posts) - - Show Bio

Assuming Fused Zamasu does not merge with the Multi-Universe when he dies, Team Blue wins hilariously, followed by Purple then Red.

Gogeta outpowers everybody on this list by a good margin, meaning techniques like Hakai will be ineffective. Vegito is speculated to be Beerus level, the same as LSSJ Broly, and we all saw what happened in Broly vs Gogeta. I can't reliably put Vegito at Beerus level, but what we can say for sure about the characters in this fight is that:

Gogeta >> LB Jiren > Beerus >/= Vegito, LSSJ Broly >/= Other GoDs of Destruction+Toppo >> Everybody Else

No other team has a character Rivaling Beerus AND a character that is definitely above Beerus. Beerus showed in his fight against the other GoDs that he could probably beat all of the characters below the GoDs, indeed probably even some of the GoDs on this list with 1 hand.

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#36 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Power levels are not static, there’s not really a “SSG” or “SSB” tier. Saitama get stronger while fighting and after fights due to Zenkai. For example we clearly see Goku was able to match hit after the 7 vs 6 tournament with just SSB even tho he needed the x10 KK during the tournament. Pre UIO was getting smoked by Jiren while post UIO SSB was standing up to him

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#37 Posted by Chronicplane (9409 posts) - - Show Bio

bump.

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#38 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2810 posts) - - Show Bio

Purple team wins, too many powerhouses

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#39 Posted by Chad_Duby (5681 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren’s team.

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#40 Posted by Supermanthor (21787 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren team

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#41 Edited by Yamiyodare (1715 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Jiren

Team Goku ( Vegito black goku bow is much less strong than a hypothetical post top, and fusion does not last long (black goku bow )

Team Broly

Team Beerus

Team Freezer

I may have made mistakes in the rankings, without really knowing which team is better than the other, but potentially, the Goku team can claim the top spot, for the most part.

If the Goku team is with the current characters (post top), they outweigh the others.

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#42 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@yamiyodare: Why would there be a time limit in this hypothetical matchup? Look at what the power that Kefla has through Potara, imagine how strong SSB Vegito is.

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#43 Edited by baph (2368 posts) - - Show Bio

Either Team 1 or Team 2.

Hit is going to be the MVP under these rules, while everyone is fighting he can pretty much one-shot most of the characters that are below SSB Kaio-Ken level, and help his teammates against the Big guns.

And given how most of these characters have no knowledge about Hit's dimension, he call just chill and spam phased ki blasts.

That, plus Beerus + Champa's versatility, and Black Goku's clones can give them the win.

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#44 Edited by Yamiyodare (1715 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock said:

@yamiyodare: Why would there be a time limit in this hypothetical matchup? Look at what the power that Kefla has through Potara, imagine how strong SSB Vegito is.

That's why I placed the Goku team in second place, but it's very close. If we take the current characters, the team Goku wins hands down. But here, goku can not use kaioken and Vegeta can not use blue evolution. Gogeta will be busy for a while with Jiren, when the others will have two gods of destruction, goku god and Dyspo, and I do not think that the Vegeto Black bow is enough. But again according to the scenarios (Gogeta joins him for example), everything can change quite quickly.

And in the ranking, I assume the fact that the gods of destruction are overwhelmed by LB Jiren, SSJB Gogeta and LSSJ Broly.

Only Vegeto is behind because it is far behind in history (black arc)

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#45 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@yamiyodare: Back in black arc Vegito was stated to be about = to Beerus.

Considering it’s been stated that Gogeta is just as useful as Vegito, SSB Gogeta should be around MUI level on its own considering SSB Goku was able to push Jiren to use a higher power after his UIO went out.

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#46 Edited by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock: But during the Universal Survival arc there was a clear SSG and SSB tier. Toppo held his own against SSB Goku and Dyspo kept SSG Goku on his toes. Yet both of them were casually countered by UIO Goku at his weakest. Also, you're being disingenuous about how well SSB Goku did. Jiren consistently fodderised both SSB Goku and Vegeta throughout the TOP and was holding his own against SSBKKx20 Goku and Vegeta in his Evolved SSB form without using his full power. He only noted that their strikes were getting sharper and one of the Kais or Whis said that Goku and Vegeta's lack of coordinated teamwork threw Jiren off (which makes no sense honestly)

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#47 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: and then we see Jiren have to power up even more than he had to against UIO, even when Goku is just fighting him alone pushing him back. Showing a clear increase in power. Belmod even says he hasn’t seen him go this far in a long time and Goku says he’s never taken a punch that hard

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#48 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock: Which part are you talking about? The one where Jiren launches an attack at Goku that the Supreme Kai of Universe 11 describes as a casual punch for Jiren? Or the part where Jiren powers up whilst facing Goku, Vegeta, Android 17 and Frieza after Toppo is knocked off? Because the former is explicitly noted to be a basic attack by the Supreme Kai and the first time Jiren used that attack, Goku dropped out of Blue out of pure shock. Whereas the other instance is not just against Goku but the remaining U7 fighters. You're overlooking very obvious context in your arguments.

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#49 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta would slap the dog shit out of MUI

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#50 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: https://youtu.be/VFRMlWQsJCc

We literally see after UIO. Goku is able to contest Jiren even as Super Saiyn Blue despite him getting stomped even using KKx20 before.

Then at 22 minutes we see Jiren power up and Belmod says he hasn’t seen him this way in a long time, meaning he has to use more power against Blue Goku than he had to use against UIO. Goku then gets hit and says he’s never felt a punch that strong before.