Databooks VS Feats

@mcu-defender333: I think if databook information is in line with consistent type of info we receive from both on-panel source and other sources, it should be perfectly valid. It then serves as a back up source, and sometimes is even more valid than feats themselves because, again, some feats do not always portray the character accurately if you compare the consistency. For example, I'll take a guidebook quote that states Jay Garrick can move at relativistic speeds, over a feat of him going much faster than light, because the former falls in line with his consistent portayal on-panel (be it during actual fight or word of mouth). So I guess what I'm saying is, consistency and context is more important than whether a source comes from a guidebook, or comic page.

Feats, not even close.

@mcu-defender333: the naruto databooks don't have anti feats... just because they mention something being planetary and then no planetary feat happens in the manga. That by itself is not an anti feat. The manga would need to explicitly showcase planetary capabilities and then momo would need to fail to counter or produce on such levels. Otherwise essentially everyone should just scale to the statements, not the opposite. Anti feat=/= non feat

Sure, consistency is the real key, but in such a situation where databook vs original material and all other things are equal, the manga/comics wins.

To be planet-level, someone must perform planet-level feats (or show the capabilities for it, or if it is heavily implied, e.g. SS Vegeta's Galick Gun being planet-busting). Feats/power levels cannot come from the data book alone (not sure if that's what you were saying?).

@mcu-defender333: yes it can. why couldn't it? Unless a feat directly contradicts it, there's no reason to disbelieve info from The databook.

Databooks can be used too, as long as they are in line with the feats/intent.

Beware of “lightning fast” or “faster than light” or “unbreakable” and the other hyperboles.

Just use your brain and you’ll be fine.

Easier said than done for a lot of people on these boards.

No, it can't. Databooks exist to supplement the main material, nothing more.

Here's a thought: if a Naruto databook said Itachi could fire laser beams from his eyes, would you believe it? After all, nobody in the manga ever said Itachi couldn't fire laser beams and there are all sorts of powers in the Narutoverse. Maybe he just never thought they'd make any difference? Maybe it's a unique power that Kishimoto threw in the databook?

@mcu-defender333: I mean... generally speaking 99% of the time, databooks don't give characters powers, just "supplement" information about powers already shown. But yeah I'd believe it, itachi can set people on fire just by looking at them, laser beams would actually be weaker than his current capabilities, as it's easier to dodge.

Dear God, I know that, but I was giving an example. And I don't care if they're weaker, the point is that it would be inventing a powerset that has never been referenced in the main material and makes no sense. How about if a Marvel databook said that Spiderman can spawn daffodils from his asshole at will? I guess you'd buy into that too.

Nevermind, I'll leave this now as there are lots of other brick walls I need to bang my head against.

@mcu-defender333: of course you are. You didn't address my main point of databooks generally not adding powers, and then proceeded to come up with the silliest example ever as a counter point. If a databook added something like that might as well just dismiss the whole thing. That being said you're original specific example is just the databook giving supporting evidence of power levels with nothing to contradict it. Besides spiderman shooting dandelions out his butt is contradicted by the powerset spiderman powerset itself

“@mcu-defender333: However, yes, the exception is if there are outliers, which I don't think are as common as you are suggesting (even in a series as long as the original Dragonball, Roshi's moon buster is the only one I can think of).“

@bossmountain hold this L Lil dawg

“@soratoumiga: Feats, not even close.“

he said nothing about anything I've posted. and I don't disagree with anything he said either.

Again why are you trying to drag other people into this augment.I know that was originally the point of this thread but fight your own battles you look pathetic.

And consider that you have utter fail to counter even a single point I brought up how exactly as it's a win for you?

@bossmountain: dudeeee your smoking rocks. You said king Piccolo and Goku before z are moon busters stfu and stop with the nonsense your spouting.

Delusional and pathetic.

Everyone literally everyone on this thread agrees with me and disagrees with you. You said databooks over Feats I said feats over data books. Drops mic and slaps the s***t outta ya.

“@mcu-defender333: No, it can't. Databooks exist to supplement the main material, nothing more.

Here's a thought: if a Naruto databook said Itachi could fire laser beams from his eyes, would you believe it? After all, nobody in the manga ever said Itachi couldn't fire laser beams and there are all sorts of powers in the Narutoverse. Maybe he just never thought they'd make any difference? Maybe it's a unique power that Kishimoto threw in the databook?“

Okay so if Goku is fighting someone in DB who’s max power feat was only small country level and Goku is impressed by it does that scale him to small country level ? Despite the data book saying Goku at that time was able to destroy a moon ?

@token1300: lol how old are you?

Seriously that reply doesn't counter a single one of my points. It's like you can't actually debate at all. So your only option is to bring other people into debate by strawmanning my arguments.

via power scailing from Roshi direct on panel Feats which is also supported from the guides that directly states that Roshi and Goku can both bust the Moon . It's reasonable to assume they have the potential to reach Moon busting status at max power at least for a single attack.

Asking a bit too much from most of CV here.

@bossmountain: https://imgur.com/a/3y6KwCr

“Nerdy brokeback mountain voice (you): there is no contradiction about guidebook claiming Roshi to be a moon buster when he literally did it on panel. It’s just confirming what we seen him do”

You don’t know s**t about outliers and the fact that you think Roshi is legit moon buster when king piccolo Strongest attack was only city level is down right laughable and ignorant on your part. You don’t know what a Outlier is. When you go to Outlier page Roshi is the FIRST freaking one listed dude lmfao take your riddilin kid cus you acting slow asf.

https://m.imgur.com/a/kwXfgs2

Use your freakin BRAIN why would Roshi die against an OLDDD versionn of king Piccolo who can barely destroy cities if Roshi can blow up Moons ? Lol dude

@bossmountain: @token1300: Warning for insults to both of you. No need to make a contest of calling each other "pathetic" when it's clear you are not going to agree.

@wot_m8: @mcu-defender333: the whole “just use your brain” thing doesn’t just apply to databooks, but also statements and feats too. It’s just most apparent in databooks. I see the same logic being used too when people take scenes frame by frame to try and do their calcs, forgetting the fact that directors/authors aren’t paying attention to those little details.

Unfortunately most CV think that way with the exception of street level LA character threads, where people actually use intent in general rather than Muh feats and statements.

The DBZ Guidebooks showed that Ginyu's change attack involves an actual beam of light. Goku is faster than light because of that. Does it make sense? Reading the manga, it does. The old Marvel Universes said Drax was 50 class. Drax smashed a planet in his first appearance. Does it make sense? No. I take guidebooks with a bit of scrutiny. With smaller properties, I take their guidebooks more seriously because there is often not enough to reduce the credibility, but even then, some guide books go overboard. I say keep them in mind alongside the feats.

Databooks and guides are supplementary and meant to give info about characters and their abilities extra detail without wasting pages on exposition.

Both are valid most of the time

@wot_m8: trying to trigger someone without @ ?say my name like destiny child please and we can discuss

Feats are better than databooks and statements for sure but at the same time, it depends on the context.

Feats win. But if a data book isn't contradicted than data books count too (for instance the Naruto Data book entry on Madara's Light Fang)

@token1300: Dude, I don't legit what you are talking about. You may have the wrong person

I can´t vote at this point, and i will tell why:

Databooks are official manga trace-books, who gives you more detailed informations then in the manga. Based on charakters, history, abilities, etc. The statements are canon at this point, so there isn´t much scope.

BUT... we have to distinguish statements who describes the situation and statements, who are just hyperbole or NLF.

For example the Databooks in Naruto:

- Temari would never blow up an universe. This statement is just an introduction and more a metaphor.

- On the other hand, you have the light fang jutsu, who can moves with the speed of light. This is far more realistic at this point, based on the function and effectiveness.

- Amaterasu is hot like the sun, isn´t just a metaphor. It is more a historical explaination what/who Amaterasu was - The god of the sun and the light. But at this point feats will appear und you will see, that Amaterasu never has the heat of the sun.

There is also the point that Databooks has a expiry date: The Manga becames updates, the Databook at this point isn´t relevant anymore since feats proves, or debunks the statements in the Databook. At this point you have to wait of a new Databook, who brings the updates. Here is the problem the same. It is only current, as long the Manga doesen´t have prove, or debunked the statements later in the Manga.

Or in short: The Databooks can used as canon/official in debates, but the Manga has the authority to debunked those books. And that happend often.

I would say it depends on the situation, but i don´t have the poll to answer this.

Databooks and statements are legit when they follow feats. The only time statements are disregarded is when the story itself proves a statement wrong. Usually this happens on purpose as the writer intended. Also, when a databook is FULL of hyperbole like Naruto databooks are they are disregarded. Naruto has the most hyperbole that I've ever seen in its databooks. Dragon ball databooks don't have ANY hyperbole and explains special attacks, sometimes along with the scenario in which the special attack was used. DB databooks were also made by the creator himself. He only gathered a team together, bird studio, with him to collect all the information because Toriyama said it's too much work for one person.

People just don't know how to read stories properly. Some are willfully ignorant because databooks do give extra details sometimes that help put a character above another in the battle forums. So If your a biased person then it's just another way to misrepresent a character you're debating against.

what a great thread

Both are valid but when contradictions happen, feats always win.

Statements have to be taken in context and are often the weakest of the 3 and should only be used to support one of the 2 options mentioned above.

Here's how it goes imo:

Feats > scaling > data/guidebook statements >/= in-universe statements.

statements and databooks are valid as long as they're not disproved by feats.

Depends on a lot of circumstances. But in most cases feats.

Disregarding a databook statement with no contradictions or inconsistencies just because 'I will wait to see it happen first' is just an argument from incredulity and honestly just sub par debating. That being said, as Shirso said it's a case by case basis.

Feats first

If the Datebook from the Author himself then Feats = Datebook

Anyway Powerscaling godstomps both, seriously without Powerscaling Genos will destroy Jiren

This, except I would also add that the statements should be reasonable given the character's feats. Like I can imagine there would be some character/writer statements that don't have a direct contradiction in canon but also seem super unreasonable and far-fetched based on what the character has shown to be capable of. In those instances I feel the statements should not be taken as true

What Joviolma said.