Darth vs Obi-Wan

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Strike3

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Darth Maul of Episode 1 vs Obi-Wan of Episode 3. Who wins?

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Redshift_Bacon

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Obi Wan stomps. Ep 1 Maul would have a tough time against AOTC Anakin or Obi Wan, let alone a Prime Obi Wan

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DirtyLuna

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Obi-Wan, after a decent fight.

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God-Thanatos1

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Obi wan wins

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AlexTheBoss

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Obi-wan wins but Maul would still make him work for it.

Obi Wan stomps. Ep 1 Maul would have a tough time against AOTC Anakin or Obi Wan, let alone a Prime Obi Wan

How would AOTC Anakin or Obi-wan give him trouble? Both of them got wrecked by Dooku, and both of them together are only a slightly better team than Qui-gon and TPM Obi-wan.

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Richard96

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Kenobi.

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King-Ragnar

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Obi Wan flattens him.

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Redshift_Bacon

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@alextheboss: IMO, TPM Maul is inferior to late CW Maul, who would lose to this Kenobi in a good fight.

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AlexTheBoss

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@redshift_bacon: I agree, but I don't think there is a massive difference between TPM Maul and CW Maul. Ep 3 Kenobi beats CW Maul with very high difficulty, and beats TPM Maul with mid difficulty.

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Redshift_Bacon

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@alextheboss: Yeah mid-diff makes sense I guess, but I see it going more like Rebels Maul vs Kenobi.

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AlexTheBoss

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@redshift_bacon: Rebel's Maul vs Kenobi was due to character state of mind more than anything. I agree the power gap may be similar, but ep 3 Kenobi is not a character who would win in three moves like rebels Kenobi was. There is a reason he switched stances multiple times. If he just went in head strong and tried to fight Maul might vs might, it would have probably been a tough battle, but he decided to use his head and bait Maul.

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firelordiroh

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Obi-Wan smacks him.

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deactivated-5ea0874809400

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Obi-Wan. He was equal to an even more powerful Maul and face off against a stronger Skywalker.

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firelordiroh

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@alextheboss: AOTC Anakin could definitely give Maul trouble and make him exert himself but he'd still lose nearly every time.

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Darkthunder

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Obi wan wins with or without the high ground

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Darkthunder

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#16  Edited By Darkthunder

@redshift_bacon: no way. Maul killed a council level duelist plus he nearly won against Obi wan. Aotc Anakin was annhilated by dooku who trained qui gon. I hate scaling but aotc Anakin ain't beating him

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Redshift_Bacon

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@darkthunder: Qui-Gonn is neigh-featless and is only a good duelist by hype. Being Council-Member level doesnt make you a god tier duelist in itself either. Council Members have been defeated by lesser opponents before (Savage Opress comes to mind)

AOTC Anakin lost to Dooku but the gap isnt as large as people think (Both improved until ROTS), and plus Dooku’s preferred form is Makashi (Form II) whereas Qui-Gonn uses Ataru.

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Darkthunder

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@redshift_bacon: qui gon and ataru?? I thought Yoda used that. Still Anakin was beaten. Dooku only lost in rots imo is because his fighting style was not ideal one against ankins. Otherwise there is a huge gap.

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Grinningf0x

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@darkthunder: A stylistic advantage only works if each opponent is relatively on par

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iknowwhoyouare

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What would happen if Maul didn't go into hiding but went back to Sidious for more training? How would he compare to this Obi-Wan?

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Redshift_Bacon

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@redshift_bacon: qui gon and ataru?? I thought Yoda used that. Still Anakin was beaten. Dooku only lost in rots imo is because his fighting style was not ideal one against ankins. Otherwise there is a huge gap.

Quote:

Jinn was incredibly skilled in the fourth form of lightsaber combat, Ataru, being considered one of the greatest masters of the form among the Jedi.

And no. Anakin and Obi-Wan lost in AOTC because they used Ataru, a form that Dooku knew the ins-and-outs of completely, seeing as how his Master was Yoda (THE Ataru master) and his apprentice was Qui-Gon (another of the greatest masters of the form)

There is a gap between Anakin and Dooku in ROTS. In Anakins favor. He was faster, stronger, more powerful in the force. Dooku had no way of defeating ROTS Anakin, and it wasn't due to a stylistic advantage. Anakin held the advantage in all fronts, and unleashed one of the most aggressive and savage assaults on any duelist in history. He then tried this on Obi-Wan and failed.

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firelordiroh

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What would happen if Maul didn't go into hiding but went back to Sidious for more training? How would he compare to this Obi-Wan?

Since Maul had Palpatine level force potential he would have grown much quicker and most likely would have been able to kill Obi-Wan much easier.

That's if Palpatine even accepts him back.

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Darkthunder

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@redshift_bacon: please give me a source for qui gon being an ataru master quote

Also no. Anakin was stomped in Aotc. He was nowhere stronger than dooku. He win due to style advantage if rots Anakin was stronger than aotc then Obi wan should have been stronger too. Yet he was stomped both times. Obi wan is anakins master, Anakin lost to Obi wan in a duel. Ani may be strong in the force but dooku was more in control.

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Darkthunder

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@grinningf0x: no. Anakin and dooku were not on par with each other. If they were Obi wan would have stomped dooku

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Redshift_Bacon

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#25  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

Source is “The New Essential Guide to Characters”

Anakin was stomped in AOTC, but not because he was Weaker than Dooku, it was because he was less experienced and arrogant, plus he was using Ataru.

ROTS Anakin beat Dooku because he is better. As per the ROTS Novelization:

Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku’s defenses with the unstoppable power of a Meteor Strike. The Sith Lord spent lavishly with his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker— Skywalker was getting Stronger

Its furthermore emphasised that:

tapping into the dark side, Anakin felt his powers increasing

Its pretty evident that his victory didnt just come from a stylistic advantage, but also a large difference in Power.

meanwhile, We also know from the ROTS Novelization that Obi Wan defeated Anakin due to his arrogance and knowledge. Soresu allowed him to counter Djem So, for just long enough to make a mistake, and Obi Wan capitalized on it. That entire battle, Anakin has Kenobi on the defensive. Before he makes his fatal mistake he says “This is the end for you, my Master” and Kenobi doesnt disagree, he literally tries to get away. ROTS Anakin is above both Dooku and Kenobi. Dooku is above Kenobi due to a stylistic advantage, one which Darth Maul does not possess. And even if Darth Maul did, he isnt strong enough to capitalize on it like Dooku was.

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Redshift_Bacon

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@darkthunder:

Source is “The New Essential Guide to Characters”

VAnakin was stomped in AOTC, but not because he was Weaker than Dooku, it was because he was less experienced and arrogant, plus he was using Ataru.

ROTS Anakin beat Dooku because he is better. As per the ROTS Novelization:

Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku’s defenses with the unstoppable power of a Meteor Strike. The Sith Lord spent lavishly with his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker— Skywalker was getting Stronger

Its furthermore emphasised that:

tapping into the dark side, Anakin felt his powers increasing

Its pretty evident that his victory didnt just come from a stylistic advantage, but also a large difference in Power.

meanwhile, We also know from the ROTS Novelization that Obi Wan defeated Anakin due to his arrogance and knowledge. Soresu allowed him to counter Djem So, for just long enough to make a mistake, and Obi Wan capitalized on it. That entire battle, Anakin has Kenobi on the defensive. Before he makes his fatal mistake he says “This is the end for you, my Master” and Kenobi doesnt disagree, he literally tries to get away. ROTS Anakin is above both Dooku and Kenobi. Dooku is above Kenobi due to a stylistic advantage, one which Darth Maul does not possess. And even if Darth Maul did, he isnt strong enough to capitalize on it like Dooku was.

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Necromancer76

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Kenobi

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Darkthunder

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@redshift_bacon: my post wasn't about maul Vs Kenobi but the fact that you said aotc anakin would beat him

Ani himself said my powers have grown in rots. Implying that in Aotc he was not as powerful as dooku.

Obi wan won due to his knowledge then it means Obi wan was better

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MasteredSpeed

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Kenobi stomps.

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Redshift_Bacon

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@darkthunder: Obviously ROTS Anakin > AOTC, thats self-evident. But so is CW Maul > TPM Maul.In canon, Qui-Gonn is featless and TPM Kenobi’s only feat is defeating Maul. Mauls best feat is defeating a featless character, and his worst feat is being too slow to react to Padawan Kenobi. Meanwhile, AOTC Anakin entertained Dooku, and has feats suggesting he is superior to TPM Maul in terms of pure saber combat:

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Erkan12

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#31  Edited By Erkan12

@redshift_bacon said:

@darkthunder: Obviously ROTS Anakin > AOTC, thats self-evident. But so is CW Maul > TPM Maul.In canon, Qui-Gonn is featless and TPM Kenobi’s only feat is defeating Maul. Mauls best feat is defeating a featless character, and his worst feat is being too slow to react to Padawan Kenobi. Meanwhile, AOTC Anakin entertained Dooku, and has feats suggesting he is superior to TPM Maul in terms of pure saber combat

First of all, posting full page scans is not permitted due to copyright issues.

Second of all, your posts in this thread are ridiculous.

Let's start with your full page scans about Anakin; it means nothing. That's just Anakin's imagination about Maul, and he constructed that training droid on his own, no one who is an expert about Maul, constructed that training droid. To assume that Anakin could replicate that ''cheap-shot'' feat against Maul over defeating a training droid is ridiculous.

As for TCW Maul > TPM Maul, the power difference is minimum. And Maul was still a tier 8 even in the TPM according to Nick Gillard, just like Dooku and Obi-Wan was a tier 8 in Episode III. While Kit Fisto was tier 7. Since TCW Maul was still not a tier 9 after getting more powerful, the difference is not that huge between TPM Maul and TCW Maul.

And then TCW S4 Maul defeated TCW S4 Kenobi (a late 20 BBY, very close to 19 BBY RotS), when Maul didn't get stronger in the Clone Wars yet. It means that, TPM Maul actually defeated TCW Kenobi in a duel. And TCW / AotC Kenobi > TCW / AotC Anakin until the late TCW.

And calling TPM Kenobi as padawan is not true. Qui-Gon specifically said that Obi-Wan was ready to become a Jedi knight in TPM, and he becomes one at the end of TPM and he takes Anakin as his Jedi apprentice.

They said that Obi-Wan was even faster in the Episode I than he was in Episode III.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/star-wars-universe/4015-57038/forums/tpm-kenobis-speed-rots-kenobis-speed-2060281/

And being too slow to react to Kenobi? That gives me a laugh, thanks. Maul was off-guard when he was toying with Kenobi after disarming him in the duel,

No Caption Provided

--- It's from Starwars.com

That cheap-shot is not a dueling feat for Kenobi at all. Maul already defeated Rage amped Kenobi and disarmed him after killing Qui-Gon.

Even if we ignore the legends feats for Qui-Gon, in the canon it's confirmed that the Jedi council level Jedi masters are superior to someone like the Grand Inquisitor (who was a Jedi guardian), so that's canon.

Dave Filoni: ''If the any member of the Jedi council survived, the Grand Inquisitor would be a lot harder pressed in that battle.''

Source: ForceCast Radio interview

Which means that Qui-Gon, who would be in the Jedi council if not for his defiant nature, would be superior to other Jedi knights who are not members of the Jedi council in the canon.

Qui-Gon also has feats like deflecting countless blaster bolts at the same time in the new canon, and while doing that he at the same time carries someone on his back.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/star-wars-universe/4015-57038/forums/qui-gons-new-lightsaber-deflection-feat-1990813/

Also Qui-Gon has a new accolade in the new canon, such as being a ''Great Jedi knight'' as well.

Count Dooku: ''You said earlier that you knew my apprentice. Master Qui-Gon Jinn.''

Jedi Jak'zin: ''Of course. He was a great Jedi.''

Source: Age of the Republic - Count Dooku (2019)

And Nick Gillard said that there is a lightsabers duelists line such as Yoda > Dooku > Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Anakin in the PT.

And Qui-Gon belongs to that great lightsaber users line, there is a reason why Obi-Wan was also a great lightsaber duelist, just like Dooku and that's why Anakin has become that good. Qui-Gon was also responsible for that, just like Yoda and Dooku was.

Secondly, Maul as a lightsaber user > Dooku as a lightsaber user in the new canon.

No Caption Provided

--- It's from; Star Wars Absolutely Everything You Need to Know (2015)

This is new canon, and it applies to TPM Maul as well.

So this is not really different than a usual Maul vs. Kenobi fight, however since TCW Maul was slightly stronger than TPM Maul, and since TCW Maul and RotS Kenobi are equals as duelists, then RotS Kenobi is slightly better as a duelist than TPM Maul, but he is still inferior in the Force.

I say Maul wins a slight victory such as 6/10.

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YousufKhan1212

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Kenobi wins in a pretty decent fight.

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zgtfreak

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Obi Wan stomps. Ep 1 Maul would have a tough time against AOTC Anakin or Obi Wan, let alone a Prime Obi Wan

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MyGod000

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#34  Edited By MyGod000

I'd say Obi-wan wins but I don't think it's by any means a stomp.

TPM Maul is pretty much the nearly the Strongest Version of Maul.

Clone Wars Season 5 Maul>TPM Maul>Clone Wars Season 4 Maul

Maul gives him a hard Fight before Going down, Too much time had gone By for Maul. Had he not got injured the way he did during TPM he would have been a lot more powerful.

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YousufKhan1212

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@mygod000 said:

I'd say Obi-wan wins but I don't think it's by any means a stomp.

TPM Maul is pretty much the nearly the Strongest Version of Maul.

Clone Wars Season 5 Maul>TPM Maul>Clone Wars Season 4 Maul

Maul gives him a hard Fight before Going down, Too much time had gone By for Maul. Had he not got injured the way he did during TPM he would have been a lot more powerful.

This is the correct answer.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000 said:

I'd say Obi-wan wins but I don't think it's by any means a stomp.

TPM Maul is pretty much the nearly the Strongest Version of Maul.

Clone Wars Season 5 Maul>TPM Maul>Clone Wars Season 4 Maul

Maul gives him a hard Fight before Going down, Too much time had gone By for Maul. Had he not got injured the way he did during TPM he would have been a lot more powerful.

This is the correct answer.

it subject to change, I just don't know how powerful Maul is going to be in new Season of Clone wars...and I don't want to really assume how strong he is because of circumstances.

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YousufKhan1212

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@mygod000: I think the safest assumption is that he retains what he had in TCW S5/SoD because that didn't happen too long before S7.

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El_mago

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obi wan low diff

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: I think the safest assumption is that he retains what he had in TCW S5/SoD because that didn't happen too long before S7.

yea, but it always safe to wait before the final Judgement on S7.

I do think S5 maul>TPM Maul>S4 Maul is correct.

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YousufKhan1212

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@darkthunder: Obviously ROTS Anakin > AOTC, thats self-evident. But so is CW Maul > TPM Maul.In canon, Qui-Gonn is featless and TPM Kenobi’s only feat is defeating Maul. Mauls best feat is defeating a featless character, and his worst feat is being too slow to react to Padawan Kenobi. Meanwhile, AOTC Anakin entertained Dooku, and has feats suggesting he is superior to TPM Maul in terms of pure saber combat:

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Anakin defeating a simulation of Maul that he himself created based entirely off of what Obi-Wan described Maul's moves to be like years after their actual fight in no concievable way scales him to the real Maul.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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OT: Maul wins every single time, with difficulty. He's faster, stronger, more agile, stylistically superior, more skilled, more durable, and more powerful.

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Void_Reborn

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Obi-Wan with immense difficulty.

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Redshift_Bacon

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#44  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

@lord_tenebrous: Palpatine thought it was impressive.

I dont think this changes AOTC-ROTS Era scaling, I just have Canon TPM Maul amd Qui-Gon Jinn as lower than their Legends counterparts in relation to the high-tiers.

I do agree with your conclusion on this fight tho. Hes not massively above Maul in any one area, hes just slightly better across the board.

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Kilius

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#45  Edited By Kilius

RotS Kenobi.

Kenobi is the one with the style advantage. I doubt Maul can create offensive pressure greater than Anakin.

Is TPM Maul faster than Kenobi? Is TPM Kenobi faster than his older counterpart for that matter? I wouldn't rule it out, but I as previously stated I doubt Maul is faster than Anakin and Obi-Wan handled it just fine. Timing negates speed, which is probably why Jinn who is slower than TPM Kenobi was able to compete him in that area. Grievous is faster than Maul and Kenobi had no difficulty negating his speed advantage.

Other intangibles includes Kenobi's knowledge advantage and possibly a conviction amp do to their past history.

Agility is of little advantage against a Kenobi playing defense. If anything it will more likely tire him out quicker.

In the long hall Kenobi's more likely to keep his focus while Maul gets more and more frustrated and creates openings for Kenobi to exploit. Kenobi can also rattle Maul with deft counterattacks and goad him into taking more chances, as he did to Ventress, TCW Maul, and Anakin.

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nfactor1995

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Kenobi. Definitely not a stomp, Maul should be able to give him hell.

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YousufKhan1212

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#47  Edited By YousufKhan1212

The only relevant areas I see Maul being superior is in agility, durability and martial arts mastery, but that's not going to be enough for him to achieve victory against Kenobi because Kenobi is more skilled with a lightsaber, is much more experienced, is more versatile, is more powerful, is quite familiar with Maul's fighting style and has the perfect against Maul's offensive style. Kenobi wins in a fairly competitive duel.

SoD Maul is equally as good as Kenobi in technical skill, but Kenobi has a mental advantage over him, and he has the perfect counter for Maul's offensive style.

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HellfireUnit

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Kenobi is better at almost anything. He wins with mid difficulty if Maul performs the best fight of his lifetime.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#49  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous  Online

@kilius said:

Kenobi is the one with the style advantage. I doubt Maul can create offensive pressure greater than Anakin.

@yousufkhan1212 said:

The only relevant area I see Maul being superior in agility, durability and martial arts mastery, but that's not going to be enough for him to achieve victory against Kenobi because Kenobi is more skilled with a lightsaber, is much more experienced, is more versatile, is more powerful, is quite familiar with Maul's fighting style and has the perfect against Maul's offensive style. Kenobi wins in a fairly competitive duel.

Kenobi has a mental advantage over him, and he has the perfect counter for Maul's offensive style.

Juyo is stylistically superior to Soresu, which is otherwise regarded as an impenetrable defense against the other forms:

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Juyo is the ultimate offensive form, with a dangerous focus on attack attack attack, which leaves one vulnerable to counters. A good counter form would be balanced techniques like Makashi or Niman. By contrast, Soresu is all defense, no counters, and its defenses just aren't capable of withstanding the chaotic, disconnected manuevers of a Juyo burst.

If Maul & Obi-Wan are closely matched in skill, Maul blazes through him via a superior style.

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firelordiroh

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Obi-Wan is superior to a stronger Maul, he should win this with decent difficulty.