*Morals are off, no prep, standard equipment, both want to kill each other
*Revan during the Revan novel and RotJ Vader. Legends and Canon feats for Vader are included
INB4 Novel Vitiate is weaksauce and so is Novel Revan.Even though he has better feats than Yoda and Sidious as per Ritual of Nathema.
They're pretty even. Might give a slight edge to Vader
Vader is even with someone who had a chance of beating Vitiate in unfavorable circumstances?
@jackofalltrades2: @nfactor1995: jack isn't wrong. Revan is far superior to most PT characters. Vader isn't "close" to revan. His force power isn't close even with EU feats. And neither are his Lightsaber skills. Civil war revan? Sure. Very even. Prime revan? Don't be riciulous. Yeah people wank revan but don't put him beneath PT characters who lack the feats to contend.
>Contends with Vitiate and survives his bloodlusted Force Lightning,same Vitiate who absorbed all the energy generated during a ritual that atomically disintegrated every living being on an entire planet
<Gets ragdolled by Vader,who doesn't have a single feat anywhere close to that
Instead of complaining about my views how about coming up with counters.
Vader wouldn't stand a chance against a Sidious tier opponent like Vitiate on his best days while Revan not at his best was capable of beating Vitiate.
@azronger: No one from force unleashed is any threat to revan. Except sidious. But force unleashed sidious cant do anything. I assume by this point anyone who knows anything about starwars is fully aware of everything revan has done. So. You should be if you are arguing so willingly against him. Revan stomps really. Full bodied anakin is way more fair.
@ffp: @darkdefender: @azronger: ffp is right. Marek is many times inferior to revan. Revan was capable of going toe to toe with vitiate while he was weakened. Marek lost to vader. And sidous. Vitiate=Sidious by feats. And in the revan novel it specifically states the fight between revan and vitiate couldve gone either way.
@noah_ouellette: Toe to toe with Vitiate? What are referring to? Scourge himself stated that all 3 of them together only had 50/50 odds against Vitiate.
Except Scourge specifically saw Revan's triumph or defeat,not their or the teams.
Scourge and Meetra wouldn't matter either way.Nyriss schooled them lmao,Vitiate could one shot them without trying.
"The Force washed over him like a wave, and a million different possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some, the Emperor was no more. In others, he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room. He saw variations of his own life and death, played out over and over in every concievable way, shape and form."
The reason Scourge betrayed them was because he saw Vitiate defeated at the hands of HoT.Revan's victory was not guaranteed,HoT's was.Revan was ultimately weaker than Vitiate but still close.Backed up by him tanking Vitiate's TK without much trouble and his tutaminis feat against his FLS while weakened,along with Scourge's vision of certain realities where Revan triumpher over the Emperor.
It says Novel Revan in the OP.
Novel Vitiate is powerful, but his Nathema feat seems to be A: An incredible feat of sorcery, maneuvering, telepathy with trickery, and prep, and B: Shows the increased power he got.
Not exactly a combat showing.
Besides, Revan is drugged in the novel, so I'm assuming he is in this battle (unless we're not using Revan reborn), and I wouldn't say knocking Vitiate off his feat, then later being fried by Vitiate's lightning, is enough to suggest that this Revan would beat Vader for a majority.
Why is the title Darth Revan?
He only triumphed over Vitiate in conjunction with the team.
Why are you ignoring the text which clearly mentions Revan and Revan alone?
Even if we took your intepretation Meetra and Scourge got wrecked by Nyriss alone who is complete fodder to Vitiate.They are not factors at all against a wary Emperor.
When did Revan tank Vitiate's TK? Also he never used tutaminis against Vitiate's lightning. Only blocked or knocked it to the side with his lightsaber.
Did you read the novel or no?
@jackofalltrades2: It says Revan's victory not Revan and Revan alone. Revan led the team to fight Vitiate. The team was present. If they had been victorious it would have been due to the team's effort. And you say I'm ignoring context.
The team was present indeed,and yet Scourge makes no mention of him or Meetra.
And could you please explain how two characters who got punked by Nyriss would prove relevant against Vitiate?
Vitiate was not wary, that's the point. He thought he'd destroyed all of his competition at that point ( I.E. the Dark Council ). Regardless Vitiate wasn't even able to effect them with TP per the Revan novel and Meetra's presence is what saved Revan's life as she knocked the blade out of Vitiate's hand with a saber throw.
..The Dark Council was already wiped out by that point.And of course Vitiate was wary,he had already fought Revan and got surprised by Meetra once.Now all 3 are standing against him and you suppose he would get caught off guard again?
"Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor’s mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation."
Yeah, Scourge and Meetra totally can resist the Emperor.
I have. It was a while ago though so maybe I've forgotten that particular feat. Can you quote it for me?
You'll have to look for it.Vitiate charges up his TK and unleashes on Revan who tanks it without problem.
I forgot we could use Karness Muur for comparison lol.
Dark Times Vader along with Karness Muur is confident enough to ponder going against Sidious,with Karness Muur bringing the overwhelmingly majority of the power.(Considering how Dark Times Vader is nowhere near Sidious,and Vader himself believes he'll simply trade a master for another.)
Flash forward to ROTJ and Vader doesn't dare face Sidious at all.Or even think of it.Simply because he is not powerful enough to do jack.So Dark Times Vader+Karness Muur>>>>>ROTJ Vader.
This means Karness Muur posesses a huge of fraction of ROTJ Vader's power and is certainly within his tier.Quite possibly he is ROTJ Vader's equal,although I have Vader superiour.
Revan in the novel is described as being more powerful than his KOTOR incarnation,who had already surpassed Karness Muur.Vader doesn't remotely stand a chance here.Revan kicks his mechanical butt lmao.
@jackofalltrades2: That doesn't matter though. Revan's victory would have been brought about partly because of Scourge and Meetra's aid. If Blackbeard sacked a port they would call it Blackbeard's victory. Not Blackbeard and crew's victory.
...You're still talking about Scourge and Meetra as if they are relevant against a vastly more powerful opponent than the one that stomped them, why?
He saw reealities where Revan won and lost,why wouldn't he say we if he was talking about the trio?
“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.” - Revan.
Glad we agree. :)
I'll take your word for it.
What Revan taught or did not is not specified nor mentioned.
What is known is that Vitiate simply brushinhg Scourge's mind for a second brings him to his knees.
Also about Karness Muur and Vader, its obvious from context I forgot to add alone about Vader facing Sidious.
DT Vader+Karness Muur>>>>>ROTJ Vader>Karness Muur>>>>Dark Times Vader.
Revan is superiour to Ajunta Pall pre-KOTOR end game and is also above Nihilus as of the Mandalorian Wars.He is comfortably above Karness Muur at his peak at the end of KOTOR.
Novel Revan had a good chance of taking him down, so novel Vitiate can be scaled from him, but Revan can't be scaled from Vitiate because the latter's only combative feats are against novel Revan and novel Scourge, who's not comparable to either in combat prowess.
Novel Vitiate is slightly above novel Revan, and thus is considerably above guys like Dooku.
But Vader... Vader is in a league of his own. Starkiller's raw power is above anything Revan has showcased (Note: I'm simply referring to raw power; I'm not saying Starkiller > novel Revan overall). Vader ragdolled Starkiller, yet Vitiate failed to ragdoll Revan. I think you get my point.
Because in the fight itself they showed they were capable of impacting its outcome. I.E. Meetra saving Revan's life.
That was at the end of Vitiate vs Revan solo fight where he was distracted , which wouldn't happen again as he would know of Meetra's and Scourge's presence.
I'm talking about Round 2 where Revan, Meetra and Scourge were standing 3 on 1 against Vitiate.Thats when Scourge had the visions.
Because Revan was leading them and any victory against Vitiate would most likely come about mostly due to Revan with Meetra and Scourge acting as support.
Except Scourge and Meetra wouldn't matter against a wary Vitiate.One finger flick and they would be gone.It seems you dont realize how far above Nyriss Vitiate is.
He states right before the fight that he's going to show them how to shield their minds from Vitiate and given Vitiate didn't dominate either Scourge or Meetra like he did in the example you posted above which occurred prior to Scourge allying himself with Revan one can only assume that they successfully learned said ability and were able to shield their minds from Vitiate.
And what is known is that Revan tells them he's going to teach them a technique to defend from Vitiate's mental attacks and then Vitiate is unable to successfully down any of the team with TP.
So he failed at doing something he never tried (In the case of Scourge and Meetra).What a revolutionary observement.
Sidious is superior to any incarnation of Vader and Vader's not stupid. He would never face the Emperor alone because even at his maximum potential post suit he only has 80% of the Emperor's power.
...Thats the point.Vader at his weakest along with Karness Muur makes him feel powerful enough to seriously wonder about overthrowing Sidious.ROTJ Vader doesn't dare do anything but kiss his Masters ass on his own.
Revan being above Nihilus is not supported by feats regardless of statements by Meetra therefore there's nothing to put him substantially above Muur.
Why are you ignoring Ajunta Pall?
Revan contending with novel Vitiate would be as impressive as you make it sound if Vitiate himself had more feats than rituals which cannot be used in combat.
I wonder how many times I need to explain this...
Vitiate destroying life on Nathema being a ritual is completely irrelevant.He began the ritual along with 8000 mindraped Sith and atomically destroyed everything living on the planet,absorbing the energy and lifeforce generated during the ritual.The energy is his now and lies at his disposal, how he got it is not relevant, just that he has it.
The amount of energy generated and absorbed by Vitiate puts him at the top of the food chain as far as feats go.Sidious doesn't have feats on par with that instead relying on dubious statements.Yoda doesn't have feats anywhere near that.Starkiller and Vader would have zero chance of beating Vitiate when he's sporting that much raw power.
But Vader... Vader is in a league of his own.
Vader is in the league of Karness Muur.
Starkiller's raw power is above anything Revan has showcased (Note: I'm simply referring to raw power; I'm not saying Starkiller > novel Revan overall). Vader ragdolled Starkiller, yet Vitiate failed to ragdoll Revan. I think you get my point.
Starkiller being above the guy who could have beaten a Sith who has the Raw power of 8000 Sith Lords and a planets worth of Force energy?Lolno.Revan's tutaminis feat against Vitiate's FLS shits on Starkiller's feats.
Also,Vader and Starkiller are potrayed as rivals across TFU-TFU 2.Neither of them can ragdoll the other at that point at least.Wii version doesn't override the main games.
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