Darth Vader VS Revan

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deactivated-5be183e26f3e9

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*Morals are off, no prep, standard equipment, both want to kill each other

*Revan during the Revan novel and RotJ Vader. Legends and Canon feats for Vader are included

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Jackofalltrades2

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Novel Revan beats Vader every time.

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Azronger

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Vader beats novel Revan every time.

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TchallaisOpness

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#4  Edited By TchallaisOpness

Movie Vader was freaking terrible man... He couldn't even outmaneuver a Old Obi Wan

Revan stomps...

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deactivated-5be183e26f3e9

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nfactor1995

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They're pretty even. Might give a slight edge to Vader

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Jackofalltrades2

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@noah_ouellette:

INB4 Novel Vitiate is weaksauce and so is Novel Revan.Even though he has better feats than Yoda and Sidious as per Ritual of Nathema.

They're pretty even. Might give a slight edge to Vader

Vader is even with someone who had a chance of beating Vitiate in unfavorable circumstances?

Yeah,No.

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nfactor1995

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@jackofalltrades2: Considering you're like the biggest Old Republic fanboy on this site, your opinion means very little to me. For some reason you believe that Old Republic characters are vastly superior to PT characters and quite frankly that's just not the case.

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noah_ouellette

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@jackofalltrades2: @nfactor1995: jack isn't wrong. Revan is far superior to most PT characters. Vader isn't "close" to revan. His force power isn't close even with EU feats. And neither are his Lightsaber skills. Civil war revan? Sure. Very even. Prime revan? Don't be riciulous. Yeah people wank revan but don't put him beneath PT characters who lack the feats to contend.

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zilopher

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#12  Edited By zilopher

I guess revan vs anakin would be more even.

Here, revan with some effort.

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Azronger

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@noah_ouellette: Neither do you. Provide feats yourself before pointing fingers at others for not having posted feats.

But since you asked for it, here are the feats that would allow Vader to ragdoll Revan:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

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Jackofalltrades2

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>Contends with Vitiate and survives his bloodlusted Force Lightning,same Vitiate who absorbed all the energy generated during a ritual that atomically disintegrated every living being on an entire planet

<Gets ragdolled by Vader,who doesn't have a single feat anywhere close to that

@nfactor1995:

Instead of complaining about my views how about coming up with counters.

Vader wouldn't stand a chance against a Sidious tier opponent like Vitiate on his best days while Revan not at his best was capable of beating Vitiate.

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FFP

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@azronger: marek is waaay inferior to revan. Your argument is invalid.

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Azronger

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@ffp: Yours ain't any more valid than mine - no reasoning at all.

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GeorgeWBush

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Vader handily

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DarkDefender

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@ffp: Going by feats and showings that's simply not true.

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noah_ouellette

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@azronger: No one from force unleashed is any threat to revan. Except sidious. But force unleashed sidious cant do anything. I assume by this point anyone who knows anything about starwars is fully aware of everything revan has done. So. You should be if you are arguing so willingly against him. Revan stomps really. Full bodied anakin is way more fair.

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noah_ouellette

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@ffp: @darkdefender: @azronger: ffp is right. Marek is many times inferior to revan. Revan was capable of going toe to toe with vitiate while he was weakened. Marek lost to vader. And sidous. Vitiate=Sidious by feats. And in the revan novel it specifically states the fight between revan and vitiate couldve gone either way.

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DaDivineKing

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DarkDefender

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@noah_ouellette: Toe to toe with Vitiate? What are referring to? Scourge himself stated that all 3 of them together only had 50/50 odds against Vitiate.

Marek broke through Vader's telekinetic defenses in TFU and in TFUII he allows himself to be disarmed to get Vader to lower his guard. As for cutscenes I don't have a specified stance on them but if it's not supported by the other versions I'm honestly rather skeptical about their validity. What are Vitiate's feats that put him as an equal to Sidious? His Valkorian incarnation may very well be an equal but Vitiate in a weakened state wasn't even capable of breathing through The Hero of Tython's defenses.

No. It specifically states a fight between Revan and the team could have gone either way.

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nfactor1995

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Actually I change my answer to Revan for a slim majority.

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Jackofalltrades2

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#24  Edited By Jackofalltrades2
@darkdefender said:

@noah_ouellette: Toe to toe with Vitiate? What are referring to? Scourge himself stated that all 3 of them together only had 50/50 odds against Vitiate.

Except Scourge specifically saw Revan's triumph or defeat,not their or the teams.

Scourge and Meetra wouldn't matter either way.Nyriss schooled them lmao,Vitiate could one shot them without trying.

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DarkDefender

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#25  Edited By DarkDefender

@jackofalltrades2: I'm pretty sure it mentions all 3 of them specifically. I'll pull out my Revan novel and get the quote for you.

Apparently Scourge was confident enough that Revan couldn't defeat Vitiate even with their help that he was willing to wait hundreds of years and let a war that likely killed billions if not trillions of beings to ensure Vitiate's death at the hands of the Hero of Tython.

Also you're forgetting this is Darth Revan. Not Revan Reborn or SoR Revan.

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DarkDefender

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#26  Edited By DarkDefender

"Scourge shook his head, trying to push away the remnants of his dream. But the memory stayed with him, and he began to realize that what he had seen was something more than a mere nightmare. The experience lacked the hazy, surreal feel of a dream. It had been too vivid, the details too sharp and precise to be a figment manifested by his subconscious. There was only one possible explanation for what had happened: the Force had given Scourge a vision." - Revan.

"The Force washed over him in a wave, and a million possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some the Emperor was no more; in others he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form. He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely outcome, or what actions of his would lead to which results. Revan had said visions could guide the Jedi, but for Scourge they brought nothing but confusion. The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything seemed to be happening in slow motion. Revan and Meetra stepped forward, ready to initiate the final confrontation. Scourge knew he had to act now; he had to make his choice. In a sudden moment of clarity he saw the Emperor lying defeated at the feet of a powerful Jedi… but that Jedi was neither Revan nor Meetra. And the Sith Lord knew what he had to do. Instead of advancing with his two companions, Scourge stepped to the side so that he was standing directly behind Meetra. There was a flicker in his consciousness as the universe snapped back to full speed, and he slid the blade of his lightsaber between her shoulders." - Revan.

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Jackofalltrades2

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@darkdefender:

"The Force washed over him like a wave, and a million different possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some, the Emperor was no more. In others, he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room. He saw variations of his own life and death, played out over and over in every concievable way, shape and form."

The reason Scourge betrayed them was because he saw Vitiate defeated at the hands of HoT.Revan's victory was not guaranteed,HoT's was.Revan was ultimately weaker than Vitiate but still close.Backed up by him tanking Vitiate's TK without much trouble and his tutaminis feat against his FLS while weakened,along with Scourge's vision of certain realities where Revan triumpher over the Emperor.

It says Novel Revan in the OP.

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noah_ouellette

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@darkdefender: Also on a point jack didnt mention. HoT was immune to vitiates life drain. By far his strongest power. Vitiate tried numerous times on him and he is like jokes on you. Im invulnerable to that.

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DarkDefender

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@noah_ouellette: Where does it state he was immune to it? And even if he was what does that have to do with Vitiate's fight with the strike team?

@jackofalltrades2: He only triumphed over Vitiate in conjunction with the team. When did Revan tank Vitiate's TK? Also he never used tutaminis against Vitiate's lightning. Only blocked or knocked it to the side with his lightsaber.

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Emperor339

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#30  Edited By Emperor339

Vader defeats DARTH Revan.

Edit: Oh wait, during the revan novel? So it's not DARTH Revan then.

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noah_ouellette

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@darkdefender: The game says he was. You mentioned vitiate losing to HoT. So i thought i would clarify he wasnt able to use his strongest power.

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DarkDefender

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@noah_ouellette: Can you provide the quote?

But he would have drained Revan, Meetra and Scourge if he was capable of doing so successfully especially if you're trying to say that was his strongest ability. Personally I think telepathy is given the feats he accomplished in his Vitiate incarnation. Drain might be his most powerful ability as Valkorian though.

@emperor339:I think the OP meant Revan Reborn.

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AmethystGravity

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Novel Vitiate is powerful, but his Nathema feat seems to be A: An incredible feat of sorcery, maneuvering, telepathy with trickery, and prep, and B: Shows the increased power he got.

Not exactly a combat showing.

Besides, Revan is drugged in the novel, so I'm assuming he is in this battle (unless we're not using Revan reborn), and I wouldn't say knocking Vitiate off his feat, then later being fried by Vitiate's lightning, is enough to suggest that this Revan would beat Vader for a majority.

Why is the title Darth Revan?

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noah_ouellette

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@amethystgravity: He threw vitiate into the wall twice. And actually he did use tutaminas. Took most of his energy to negate all that dark side flow but he did.

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AmethystGravity

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Jackofalltrades2

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#37  Edited By Jackofalltrades2

He only triumphed over Vitiate in conjunction with the team.

Why are you ignoring the text which clearly mentions Revan and Revan alone?

Even if we took your intepretation Meetra and Scourge got wrecked by Nyriss alone who is complete fodder to Vitiate.They are not factors at all against a wary Emperor.

When did Revan tank Vitiate's TK? Also he never used tutaminis against Vitiate's lightning. Only blocked or knocked it to the side with his lightsaber.

Did you read the novel or no?

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DarkDefender

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#38  Edited By DarkDefender

@jackofalltrades2: It says Revan's victory not Revan and Revan alone. Revan led the team to fight Vitiate. The team was present. If they had been victorious it would have been due to the team's effort. And you say I'm ignoring context.

Vitiate was not wary, that's the point. He thought he'd destroyed all of his competition at that point ( I.E. the Dark Council ). Regardless Vitiate wasn't even able to effect them with TP per the Revan novel and Meetra's presence is what saved Revan's life as she knocked the blade out of Vitiate's hand with a saber throw.

I have. It was a while ago though so maybe I've forgotten that particular feat. Can you quote it for me?

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Jackofalltrades2

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@jackofalltrades2: It says Revan's victory not Revan and Revan alone. Revan led the team to fight Vitiate. The team was present. If they had been victorious it would have been due to the team's effort. And you say I'm ignoring context.

The team was present indeed,and yet Scourge makes no mention of him or Meetra.

And could you please explain how two characters who got punked by Nyriss would prove relevant against Vitiate?

Vitiate was not wary, that's the point. He thought he'd destroyed all of his competition at that point ( I.E. the Dark Council ). Regardless Vitiate wasn't even able to effect them with TP per the Revan novel and Meetra's presence is what saved Revan's life as she knocked the blade out of Vitiate's hand with a saber throw.

..The Dark Council was already wiped out by that point.And of course Vitiate was wary,he had already fought Revan and got surprised by Meetra once.Now all 3 are standing against him and you suppose he would get caught off guard again?

"Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor’s mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation."

Yeah, Scourge and Meetra totally can resist the Emperor.

I have. It was a while ago though so maybe I've forgotten that particular feat. Can you quote it for me?

You'll have to look for it.Vitiate charges up his TK and unleashes on Revan who tanks it without problem.

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DarkDefender

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#40  Edited By DarkDefender

@jackofalltrades2: That doesn't matter though. Revan's victory would have been brought about partly because of Scourge and Meetra's aid. If Blackbeard sacked a port they would call it Blackbeard's victory. Not Blackbeard and crew's victory.

Because they did? I mean it was because of Meetra that Vitiate was disarmed of his lightsaber and Revan's life was saved. Scourge was stated to be Meetra's equal on Dromund Kaas.

"The Dark Council was already wiped out by that point."

That's what I just said...

Wait, you're saying he would have been wary confronted by threats? Well yes, that's technically true but so would pretty much every other character when confronted with circumstances like those. It's not like he had prep or anything.

"Yeah, Scourge and Meetra totally can resist the Emperor."

“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.” - Revan.

Glad we agree. :)

I'll take your word for it.

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Jackofalltrades2

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I forgot we could use Karness Muur for comparison lol.

Dark Times Vader along with Karness Muur is confident enough to ponder going against Sidious,with Karness Muur bringing the overwhelmingly majority of the power.(Considering how Dark Times Vader is nowhere near Sidious,and Vader himself believes he'll simply trade a master for another.)

Flash forward to ROTJ and Vader doesn't dare face Sidious at all.Or even think of it.Simply because he is not powerful enough to do jack.So Dark Times Vader+Karness Muur>>>>>ROTJ Vader.

This means Karness Muur posesses a huge of fraction of ROTJ Vader's power and is certainly within his tier.Quite possibly he is ROTJ Vader's equal,although I have Vader superiour.

Revan in the novel is described as being more powerful than his KOTOR incarnation,who had already surpassed Karness Muur.Vader doesn't remotely stand a chance here.Revan kicks his mechanical butt lmao.

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AmethystGravity

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@darkdefender: I haven't read the novel in a while, but I'm pretty sure Revan's tutaminis was not against TK but against the Emperor's lightning, which overwhelmed his defenses, and IIRC was melting his flesh to his mask until T3-M4 deployed his flamethrower against the Emperor.

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DarkDefender

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#43  Edited By DarkDefender

@jackofalltrades2: Wait, what? Why do you think you can use Karness Murr for comparison?

Dark Times Vader after having encountered the Muur Talisman takes Galen Marek as his apprentice to overthrow Sidious with and is constantly seeking out ways to overthrow his master. Given he always saw himself as the superior in his and Galen's relationship that would heavily imply he believed that he could defeat the Emperor with a comparably powerful ally at his side by that point.

Are you kidding. The entire conflict between Luke and Vader is that Vader wants Luke to turn to the Dark Side so they can overthrow Palpatine.

While your logic is faulty the result is true. DT Vader and Karness Muur are superior to RotJ Vader.

Again faulty logic but your result is fine.

Where the heck does it state Revan is more powerful then Karness Muur?

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TheVivas

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#44  Edited By TheVivas

Yeah, Vader wins.

Not surprised to see Jack wanking the hell out of Revan, though.

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Jackofalltrades2

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@jackofalltrades2: That doesn't matter though. Revan's victory would have been brought about partly because of Scourge and Meetra's aid. If Blackbeard sacked a port they would call it Blackbeard's victory. Not Blackbeard and crew's victory.

...You're still talking about Scourge and Meetra as if they are relevant against a vastly more powerful opponent than the one that stomped them, why?

He saw reealities where Revan won and lost,why wouldn't he say we if he was talking about the trio?

“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.” - Revan.

Glad we agree. :)

I'll take your word for it.

What Revan taught or did not is not specified nor mentioned.

What is known is that Vitiate simply brushinhg Scourge's mind for a second brings him to his knees.

Also about Karness Muur and Vader, its obvious from context I forgot to add alone about Vader facing Sidious.

DT Vader+Karness Muur>>>>>ROTJ Vader>Karness Muur>>>>Dark Times Vader.

Revan is superiour to Ajunta Pall pre-KOTOR end game and is also above Nihilus as of the Mandalorian Wars.He is comfortably above Karness Muur at his peak at the end of KOTOR.

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DarkDefender

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#46  Edited By DarkDefender

@jackofalltrades2: Because in the fight itself they showed they were capable of impacting its outcome. I.E. Meetra saving Revan's life.

Because Revan was leading them and any victory against Vitiate would most likely come about mostly due to Revan with Meetra and Scourge acting as support.

He states right before the fight that he's going to show them how to shield their minds from Vitiate and given Vitiate didn't dominate either Scourge or Meetra like he did in the example you posted above which occurred prior to Scourge allying himself with Revan one can only assume that they successfully learned said ability and were able to shield their minds from Vitiate.

And what is known is that Revan tells them he's going to teach them a technique to defend from Vitiate's mental attacks and then Vitiate is unable to successfully down any of the team with TP.

Sidious is superior to any incarnation of Vader and Vader's not stupid. He would never face the Emperor alone because even at his maximum potential post suit he only has 80% of the Emperor's power.

I don't disagree with that scaling.

Revan being above Nihilus is not supported by feats regardless of statements by Meetra therefore there's nothing to put him substantially above Muur.

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Azronger

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#48  Edited By Azronger

@jackofalltrades2: @noah_ouellette: Revan contending with novel Vitiate would be as impressive as you make it sound if Vitiate himself had more feats than rituals which cannot be used in combat.

Novel Revan had a good chance of taking him down, so novel Vitiate can be scaled from him, but Revan can't be scaled from Vitiate because the latter's only combative feats are against novel Revan and novel Scourge, who's not comparable to either in combat prowess.

Novel Vitiate is slightly above novel Revan, and thus is considerably above guys like Dooku.

But Vader... Vader is in a league of his own. Starkiller's raw power is above anything Revan has showcased (Note: I'm simply referring to raw power; I'm not saying Starkiller > novel Revan overall). Vader ragdolled Starkiller, yet Vitiate failed to ragdoll Revan. I think you get my point.

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Jackofalltrades2

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Because in the fight itself they showed they were capable of impacting its outcome. I.E. Meetra saving Revan's life.

That was at the end of Vitiate vs Revan solo fight where he was distracted , which wouldn't happen again as he would know of Meetra's and Scourge's presence.

I'm talking about Round 2 where Revan, Meetra and Scourge were standing 3 on 1 against Vitiate.Thats when Scourge had the visions.

Because Revan was leading them and any victory against Vitiate would most likely come about mostly due to Revan with Meetra and Scourge acting as support.

Except Scourge and Meetra wouldn't matter against a wary Vitiate.One finger flick and they would be gone.It seems you dont realize how far above Nyriss Vitiate is.

He states right before the fight that he's going to show them how to shield their minds from Vitiate and given Vitiate didn't dominate either Scourge or Meetra like he did in the example you posted above which occurred prior to Scourge allying himself with Revan one can only assume that they successfully learned said ability and were able to shield their minds from Vitiate.

And what is known is that Revan tells them he's going to teach them a technique to defend from Vitiate's mental attacks and then Vitiate is unable to successfully down any of the team with TP.

So he failed at doing something he never tried (In the case of Scourge and Meetra).What a revolutionary observement.

Sidious is superior to any incarnation of Vader and Vader's not stupid. He would never face the Emperor alone because even at his maximum potential post suit he only has 80% of the Emperor's power.

...Thats the point.Vader at his weakest along with Karness Muur makes him feel powerful enough to seriously wonder about overthrowing Sidious.ROTJ Vader doesn't dare do anything but kiss his Masters ass on his own.

Revan being above Nihilus is not supported by feats regardless of statements by Meetra therefore there's nothing to put him substantially above Muur.

Why are you ignoring Ajunta Pall?

@azronger said:

Revan contending with novel Vitiate would be as impressive as you make it sound if Vitiate himself had more feats than rituals which cannot be used in combat.

I wonder how many times I need to explain this...

Vitiate destroying life on Nathema being a ritual is completely irrelevant.He began the ritual along with 8000 mindraped Sith and atomically destroyed everything living on the planet,absorbing the energy and lifeforce generated during the ritual.The energy is his now and lies at his disposal, how he got it is not relevant, just that he has it.

The amount of energy generated and absorbed by Vitiate puts him at the top of the food chain as far as feats go.Sidious doesn't have feats on par with that instead relying on dubious statements.Yoda doesn't have feats anywhere near that.Starkiller and Vader would have zero chance of beating Vitiate when he's sporting that much raw power.

@azronger said:

But Vader... Vader is in a league of his own.

Vader is in the league of Karness Muur.

@azronger said:

Starkiller's raw power is above anything Revan has showcased (Note: I'm simply referring to raw power; I'm not saying Starkiller > novel Revan overall). Vader ragdolled Starkiller, yet Vitiate failed to ragdoll Revan. I think you get my point.

Starkiller being above the guy who could have beaten a Sith who has the Raw power of 8000 Sith Lords and a planets worth of Force energy?Lolno.Revan's tutaminis feat against Vitiate's FLS shits on Starkiller's feats.

Also,Vader and Starkiller are potrayed as rivals across TFU-TFU 2.Neither of them can ragdoll the other at that point at least.Wii version doesn't override the main games.

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DarkDefender

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@jackofalltrades2: But that would force him to spread out his attention to the other two which would negatively impact his ability to combat Revan. Thus their presence is a favorable factor for Revan.

That's what I'm talking about as well.

Except Vitiate didn't do that because Revan was there and could have erected a barrier to defend them. Bane could have killed Raskta with the Force but Farfalla erected a barrier around her. That doesn't mean Raskta wasn't a benefit to the Jedi strike team. In fact she was the main reason they did as well against Bane as they did.

If he could have done it why wouldn't he have? That makes no sense. You're trying to say that because he could have done that ( assuming Meetra and Scourge weren't taught the ability Revan said he was going to teach them ) Meetra and Scourge wouldn't have had an impact on the fight even though we know Revan is not as powerful as Vitiate.

Yes and?

Because Pall is literally featless?