Darth Vader vs Qui Gon Jinn x2 (canon)

Darth Vader (suited)

Qui Gon Jinn x2

Rules

• Disney canon versions
• OT Vader. TPM Jinn
• Takes place in ROTJ throne room
• Morals off
• All out
• Start 10 feet apart

Bonus round - 3 Qui Gons instead of 2.

Vader ragdolls.

2 qui gons get nearly stomped. 3 qui gons have a shot but as soon as one gets taken out its over. bonus, vader wins 6-7/10

Vader handily beats 2 Qui-Gon's in his prime. Bonus would probably be Vader but if he can't quickly finish off one of the Qui-Gon's then he gets overwhelmed.

@gangorca: @wholewheat: @darthadi: Bonus bonus round - Vader vs 2 ANH Kenobi.

Still Vader for the bonus bonus, especially if he utilizes the force. Ben had no chance against ANH Vader in lightsabers or the force and Vader only got stronger later on.

I can see them having a shot in a duel but all out they're ragdoll bait.

Vader stomps both

immensely physically stronger and more powerful in the force with more powerful TK

Does ANH Ben x2 fare any better?

this

Yes, he arguably wins, considering one can go toe to toe with Vader.

@alextheboss: I don't think ANH Ben is that far above Jinn in canon, considering that the novel From A Certain Point of View said he had no chance of winning against Vader and that his entire body was burning. He is probably only slightly above Jinn.

@frozen: I would say more than slightly, at least in power.

In pure force power? Yes. In sabers though, I'm not really sure if ANH Ben would win. He declined a lot physically.

I think I'd back Vader. I don't think it's a stomp, but I'd give him a solid, maybe comfortable victory.

@frozen:

I don't think ANH Ben is that far above Jinn in canon, considering that the novel From A Certain Point of View said he had no chance of winning against Vader and that his entire body was burning. He is probably only slightly above Jinn.

How does having no chance against Vader and his body burning mean he is only slightly above Jinn? Barely any character in canon can beat Vader. Literally Sidious, Yoda, Luke, and maybe Mace are the only ones who have a shot. Dooku, prime Ahsoka, and prime Maul, both considerably above Qui-gon, have 0 chance against Vader. Kenobi held his ground, unlike Ahsoka, so he has a good argument for scaling above her, and he three shot Rebels Maul, who would beat Jinn, though the fight was partially circumstantial.

@alextheboss:

How does having no chance against Vader and his body burning mean he is only slightly above Jinn? Barely any character in canon can beat Vader. Literally Sidious, Yoda, Luke, and maybe Mace are the only ones who have a shot. Dooku, prime Ahsoka, and prime Maul, both considerably above Qui-gon, have 0 chance against Vader. Kenobi held his ground, unlike Ahsoka, so he has a good argument for scaling above her, and he three shot Rebels Maul, who would beat Jinn, though the fight was partially circumstantial.

Because he doesn't really have any notable feats. The novel explicitly confirms that he stood no chance against Vader and got wrecked. And while it is true that Jinn would also get wrecked, he at least has some feats/showings. All we really have for ANH Ben is the Maul fight (which is circumstantial and moreso a showing of intelligence/wit) and a Vader fight he badly lost.

Aside from that, all we know is that he is > ROTS Obi in the force, which is offset by the fact tha that he had a considerable physical decline.

Also I don't think he "held his ground". Vader fought cautiously and still drove Ben back. While this was happening, Ben confirmed he stood no chance. Ashoka and Koth did a lot better than that.

@frozen:

Because he doesn't really have any notable feats. The novel explicitly confirms that he stood no chance against Vader and got wrecked.

That's not really what it said. Anyone who fights to their limit will have their muscles burn and feel like crap. Even the winner of a tough fight would feel exhausted if it was a close fight. We also don't know what Vader was thinking in that fight, and Vader has robot arms and legs, meaning he can't actually get tired, so it isn't even a fair comparison.

And while it is true that Jinn would also get wrecked, he at least has some feats/showings. All we really have for ANH Ben is the Maul fight (which is circumstantial and moreso a showing of intelligence/wit) and a Vader fight he badly lost.

Jinn lost to a pre prime Maul with Obi-wan's help. Jinn is pretty good, but not Ben Kenobi good.

Also I don't think he "held his ground". Vader fought cautiously and still drove Ben back. While this was happening, Ben confirmed he stood no chance.

They barely moved positions, he held his position pretty well. Standing no chance doesn't mean much. Like I said, Ahsoka, Maul, and Dooku would all stand no chance. No chance doesn't mean he can't put up a good fight. Also George has said in the past Vader didn't use the force on Kenobi because Kenobi was too powerful, though you could argue that doesn't apply anymore.

Ashoka and Koth did a lot better than that.

No not really Ahsoka was constantly being pushed back and straining. Koth arguably did better because he landed some hits, but it was a pre prime Vader and Koth was fighting for his family.

Vader might be able to high diff it.

@alextheboss:

That's not really what it said. Anyone who fights to their limit will have their muscles burn and feel like crap. Even the winner of a tough fight would feel exhausted if it was a close fight. We also don't know what Vader was thinking in that fight, and Vader has robot arms and legs, meaning he can't actually get tired, so it isn't even a fair comparison.

Vader was confirmed to have fought "cautiously". We also know that he was driving Ben back while mocking Ben. Also Vader might not be able to get tired but he can most certainly struggle. We've seen Vader when he struggled against opponents (ROTJ Luke), and he makes audible signs of struggle in addition to it being visibly shown. There's not much to say he struggled against Ben.

This is what ANH Ben says at the time of his death in Disney canon

"Your powers are weak, old man." Our lightsabers clash. I try to push forward, only to be thrust violently back. It's like striking iron. There's no give in Vader's arms, and far too much in mine.

"You should not have come back," Vader tells me.

My resources are depleted, my body screaming with pain. I have no hope of winning this fight.

--I'm forced back, muscle burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing."

He is mocked, pushed back and basically beaten by his own admission. This is all the while Vader fought cautiously due to recalling his previous injuries.

Jinn lost to a pre prime Maul with Obi-wan's help. Jinn is pretty good, but not Ben Kenobi good.

There's no shame in losing to Maul. Also I don't rare Old Ben that highly. ROTS Obi is definitely way above Jinn, but I'm not confident in claiming the same for ANH Ben. He's got little in the way of showings in canon.

They barely moved positions, he held his position pretty well. Standing no chance doesn't mean much. Like I said, Ahsoka, Maul, and Dooku would all stand no chance.

Vader fought cautiously and still drove Kenobi back:

Kenobi was being pushed back per his own words:

• "I try to push forward, only to be thrust violently back"
  
• "--I'm forced back,muscle burning, breath ragged."

No chance doesn't mean he can't put up a good fight. Also George has said in the past Vader didn't use the force on Kenobi because Kenobi was too powerful, though you could argue that doesn't apply anymore.

George's words wouldn't hold up here. Old Ben is confirmed to have deteriorated physically and in saber skill in 2 separate guidebooks.

He also got tired from climbing a hill:

@frozen:

Vader was confirmed to have fought "cautiously".

Fighting cautiously doesn't mean he isn't going all out, it just means he is being careful, and there is no reason to be careful if the person he is fighting is significantly weaker. Kenobi has to have to be relatively close, especially in the force, as if not he could just force stomp him and be done with it.

He also got tired from climbing a hill:

Before running up the hill he ran across a portion of the dune sea.

It goes out of its way to specify that it was the hill that was responsible for his lack of breath.

@frozen: I'm convinced Vader is just a jobber or limited by his suit.

Lasting long against Vader seems to be doable for the most part, its beating him that's a problem.

Like a slow unstoppable force.

Likely the reason Ahsoka, Post prime Ben, Koth and others didn't get blitzed by level 9 Vader even though KFV likely could.

@kirkseven: I don't think he is a jobber, he has some amazing feats. It's more likely that movement is the issue. As you said, he doesn't really lose often.

@frozen: I guess he's harder to beat than someone like KFV but he doesn't kill you as fast either.

This could be why characters that would lose swiftly to KFV can stall the more powerful, brutish Vader.

He just breaks you down hit after hit, while KFV would likely use higher mix of speed and agility, but less strength. Even if he's no slouch in strength either.

Vader wins

Vader wins comfortably but it’s not a stomp.

Darth Vader kill him

@kirkseven: Well he made the climb after crossing part of the dune see, which would make the climb harder, and I'm sure he didn't just walk up it, he probably force speed ran up it or something. And he may not have been in his best shape, but that doesn't mean he is weak. It's like when sometimes the old master might not be as in good condition as the young guy, but can win if it's a quick fight with their skill. I'll agree Ben Kenobi doesn't have the best stamina, but he is still a powerful force wielder.

Darth Vader beats 2 Qui-Gons with mid-difficulty. Qui-Gons feat of lasting a while against Maul is a good one, also considering that TCW Maul, who is not significantly more powerful than his TPM self was able to hold his own against Sidious.

Bonus Round: Vader still beats 3 Qui-Gons although with high difficulty. I can see some arguments that side with Qui Gon since the OP stated that morals are off.

Vader

Qui-Gon on an individual basis would be an exceptionally tough match -- Vader hasn't the slightest chance here. His entire life is marked by failing to stomp combatants of a grounded level.

• Asajj Ventress
• IG-102
• Obi-Wan Kenobi
• Cin Drallig
• Eeth Koth
• Ahsoka Tano
• Ben Kenobi
• Commander Karbin
• Luke Skywalker

But sure he stomps 2 of Qui-Gon, when 1 was nearly equal to prime Maul. Because obscure cereal box quotes. Clearly rivals the Emperor.

Vader ragdolls the both of them

@thebatmeme368 said:

Agreed.

^ This.

The problem with your reasoning is that the official guidebooks have explicitly noted that his movements slowed down with age in ANH. While choreography isn't a valid metric, in this case there is an attempt to provide in universe explanations for why he appeared so slow in ANH. Really the fact that the comic panel makes a specific point of mentioning how climbing a hill is taxing to him is quite telling ~ its conveying the intent that he is in a state of physical decline.

Honestly, he puts up a better fight than old Ben on account of his physical decline.

Two make for a winning combination I would think.

I personally believe the Qui-Gons win. One I think would be a pretty good fight, as I dont even have Qui-Gon far below ROTS Kenobi at all; he lost in a good fight to Maul despite running from the Trade Federation for days prior, and then battling his way through part of a city. A fresh Qui-Gon wouldnt have as much of a stamina issue as he did during the Maul fight, and two of them together could win I think.

Bonus: I dont know, I think that two ANH Ben Kenobi's would be way more skilled than Vader in the force and together would probably do better with defending, but I dont see either of them having the strength or speed to get through Vader's defenses. I think I'd narrowly back Vader, since he has monumentally better stamina than Ben.

@frozen: Kenobi said he was a fool in that comic, so he clearly would have improved himself since then, and his only other fight after that comic is where he three shots Maul. And Ben Kenobi was stated to be more powerful in the force than he was in ep 3, who was already probably stronger than Qui-gon, though we don't know for sure.

Vader kills them both with ease.

Do you think 2 Qui Gons could beat Knightfall Vader or Dooku though?

I think the quickness, flexibility and agility of KFV help is better suited against multiple foes better than Post ROTS Vader.

KFV is a different beast entirely from Suited Vader, I think he'd beat Old Ben in far less time than Suited Vader did. His speed and agility would allow him to block from multiple angles and faster than suited Vader should be able to. Suited Vader can't even turn is head, look up, or even move his arms directly above his head as far as intent goes.

Dooku's familiarity with Jinn would serve him really well, his Sith boost would be something Jinn would not be accustomed to as well.

Bump.

Darth Vader.

The non-canon comic people refer to has a clone of Maul kicking Vaders ass and taunting him for most of the fight

Maul is simply better than young Vader, younger Vader was chopped up by Obi-Wan and Maul is also stronger, better and faster than old Robo-Vader guy that wheezes but has all those Force feats

Vader with ease.