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Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) 9 months, 1 day ago

Poll: Darth Vader VS Mace Windu (Canon) (65 votes)

Darth Vader wins easily 9%
Darth Vader wins in a good fight 42%
Either way 15%
Mace Windu wins in a good fight 22%
Mace Windu wins easily 12%
No Caption Provided

Rules:

  • Canon material only
  • No prep or foreknowledge
  • Standard equipment
  • Fight takes place in the Sundari Royal Palace

Rounds:

Round 1: Lightsabers only

Round 2: Force only

Round 3: All out

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#51 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartankobe: Because he obviously stomped Sidious, amirite?

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#52 Posted by SpartanKobe (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartankobe: Because he obviously stomped Sidious, amirite?

Ye it was a clear stomp. Mace is so powerful he could take on Abeloth at full power.

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#53 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartankobe: Being unable to react let alone defend any of his comrades and being held at blade point obviously equates to Mace stomping Sidious. Obviously.

He absorbs Vader's dark side stuff with his Vapaad and he stomps.

Prove thats how Vaapad works in canon.

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#54 Edited by Erkan12 (8391 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon said:

@kilius: I don't think this necessarily contradicts anything i said. Though i think Ben's feats against Vader and Maul are still fair. Its true he beat Maul easier than he ever has before though its partially due to mind set. And he was able to hold his own against Vader who's implied to be stronger than Dooku who has low diffed obi wan a few times.

@blackpantherisb said:

Old Obi Wan has definitely improved since his fight with Anakin. A clear example of this is how he humiliated Maul in Rebels, when back in the clone wars they were a straight up match.

Even Ray Park knows that why the duel didn't last long, not because Ben Kenobi was stronger, it is because of the old samurai style.

No Caption Provided

--- Star Wars Insider 185

You don't see this kind of explanations for other one-sided quick and short duels.

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#55 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1429 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: it’s partially due to maul too. Keep in mind maul gets just like kenobi. And if it were his younger self, I don’t think maul would’ve made a mistake like that

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#56 Edited by Insanity_ (105 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader. Pretty easily since even with help, Windu struggled against Maul.

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#57 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

even with help, Windu struggled against Maul.

That's impressive deduction from a one panel fight.

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#58 Posted by Insanity_ (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: It lasted likely 30 seconds or more. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/yousufkhan1212/blog/darth-maul-vs-mace-windu-and-aayla-secura-context-/128415/

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#59 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@insanity_: "Likely"

What suggests that Mace "struggled"?

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#60 Edited by Deadlyeyes (253 posts) - - Show Bio

Canon only, I'm not too sure. Canon is certainly hyping up Vader with his own comic series, but Windu doesn't have much feats so it is hard to really say. You could bring up Mace's performance against Sidious, but who's to say Vader can't contend with Sidious in canon?

I favor Legends Mace over Legends Vader though after a really good fight.

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#61 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadlyeyes:

Windu doesn't have much feats so it is hard to really say.

He has few TK feats but they somewhat rival Vader's at least imo.

who's to say Vader can't contend with Sidious in canon?

Sure, he's more powerful than either apprentice but I doubt it's to the point where he's approaching Sidious' level. And as per Filoni, TCW Maul is pretty much on Vader's level while Sidious stated to be far beyond him.

I favor Legends Mace over Legends Vader though after a really good fight.

Eh, I doubt that its going to be a good fight.

In Legends, Mace has quotes stating his parity with Yoda even pre-RotS and he's able to actually compete with Sidious who is confirmed to have been going for the kill in sabers.

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#62 Edited by Deadlyeyes (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: I need a quote that TCW Maul is equal to Vader. I've never seen that brought up on this site

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#63 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadlyeyes:It doesn't necessarily say that they're outright equals, merely within the same ballpark. Credit to @i_like_swords for the quote:

“Maul is a super dangerous threat because he’s been trained for years, he’s really adept, but he’s broken. So he’s kind of in the Vader-realm, and he’s a bit severed from what he knew, which was having a master, but he’s well trained by Sidious in all types of Sith ways, not the least of which is manipulation.”

Dave Filoni, Director of The Clone Wars
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#64 Posted by Richard96 (5740 posts) - - Show Bio

Since when the fact Maul and Vader are in the same ballpark is a news?

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#65 Posted by Yamiyodare (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu stomps, the fanboys said the opposite of course.

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#66 Posted by BreakOfDawn (2041 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace. While he lacks feats, his performance against Sidious and apparent position as easily in the top 5 lightsaber duellists of all time should put him fairly ahead of Vader in sabers and around or above him in Force power.

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#67 Edited by Kilius (1612 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems more like an internal comparison tbh, what with them both being "broken-men" and "a bit severed from what they knew". They were both skilled warriors who lost everything to the dark side. Not seeing how the context points to them being combatively on par.

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#68 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3871 posts) - - Show Bio

There's literally almost no way to compare them in canon in terms of saber showings.

Either way.

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#69 Posted by MYGOD101 (512 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadlyeyes:It doesn't necessarily say that they're outright equals, merely within the same ballpark. Credit to @i_like_swords for the quote:

“Maul is a super dangerous threat because he’s been trained for years, he’s really adept, but he’s broken. So he’s kind of in the Vader-realm, and he’s a bit severed from what he knew, which was having a master, but he’s well trained by Sidious in all types of Sith ways, not the least of which is manipulation.”

Dave Filoni, Director of The Clone Wars

Maul needed help from like 3 other Jedi just to confront Vader.

that implies he isn't at all in his realm. Asoka would be consider a Master level Jedi by the time of Rebels. during an interview the actor for maul said: if Maul ever encountered Vader it would be very bad for maul.

Vader wins here if we are taking the new comic for Vader into consideration than Vader should pretty much win hands down.

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#70 Posted by Helloman (29844 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader wins.

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#71 Edited by Deadlyeyes (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: Not sure what to think of that quote as it is a bit too vague IMO. As you pointed out, it doesn't directly state Maul is Vader's equal in TCW. I think Filoni is comparing Maul's broken state in TCW to that off Vader who was also broken. It doesn't really suggest anything about their power levels.

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#72 Posted by MYGOD101 (512 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: Not sure what to think of that quote as it is a bit too vague IMO. As you pointed out, it doesn't directly state Maul is Vader's equal in TCW. I think Filoni is comparing Maul's broken state in TCW to that off Vader who was also broken. It doesn't really suggest anything about their power levels.

Exactly. Maul lost like half of his body, even in the rebels series they said that Maul is half droid because of his mechanical body.

people will downplay Vader for no reason at all.

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#73 Edited by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader is canonically above Sidious in canon, proof Mace wins.

@dawn_of_ages Delete this abomination or call for it to be locked.

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#74 Posted by Lord_Tenebrous (2056 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 = stalemate. Both are indisputably above Sidious in sabers, as the SN novel account is no longer canon, removing any basis for the win being illegitimate. Neither has accomplished anything better than that, so yeah, a stalemate.

Round 2 = Vader every time. Vader has more impressive feats. Crushing and levitating an AT-AT > shoving an AT-TE, or downing whatever machine Mace threw in the new comics.

Round 3 = Vader every time. Equal in sabers with a clear edge in Force Power.

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#75 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio
@jacensolo77 said:

@dawn_of_ages Delete this abomination or call for it to be locked.

No Caption Provided

@mygod101 said:

Maul needed help from like 3 other Jedi just to confront Vader.

that implies he isn't at all in his realm.

Obviously he didn't because Maul ended up betraying and trying to kill the Jedi even before Vader arrived.

during an interview the actor for maul said: if Maul ever encountered Vader it would be very bad for maul.

Actor statements are canon now? Okay, I guess Kenobi is superior to Sidious and Rey would beat Anakin and Mace.

people will downplay Vader for no reason at all.

If I was trying to downplay for him for any reason I wouldn't have argued for him in multiple threads nor contributed countless materials to Vader's RT.

@deadlyeyes said:

@dawn_of_ages: Not sure what to think of that quote as it is a bit too vague IMO. As you pointed out, it doesn't directly state Maul is Vader's equal in TCW. I think Filoni is comparing Maul's broken state in TCW to that off Vader who was also broken. It doesn't really suggest anything about their power levels.

The entire discussion beforehand was about who is and isn't worthy of being a RoT Sith, about who has the power/abilities/training etc. needed and who doesn't. Filoni explains that Ventress and Savage didn't have the chops while Maul did. He explains how Maul's training from Sidious sets him apart and makes him more comparable to Vader than to the likes of Ventress and Savage.

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#76 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16523 posts) - - Show Bio

Fascinating fight; Vader wins.

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#77 Posted by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio