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Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2407 posts) 7 months, 27 days ago

Poll: Darth Vader VS Mace Windu (Canon) (65 votes)

Darth Vader wins easily 9%
Darth Vader wins in a good fight 42%
Either way 15%
Mace Windu wins in a good fight 22%
Mace Windu wins easily 12%
No Caption Provided

Rules:

  • Canon material only
  • No prep or foreknowledge
  • Standard equipment
  • Fight takes place in the Sundari Royal Palace

Rounds:

Round 1: Lightsabers only

Round 2: Force only

Round 3: All out

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#2 Posted by dark-sith123 (4870 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader, good fight.

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#3 Posted by AnonymousJedi (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

I think mace wins 1, but vader takes the rest

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#4 Posted by Richard96 (5643 posts) - - Show Bio

Can go either way. Mace is a superior duelist, but Vader is stronger in the force.

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#5 Posted by Zapan871 (2002 posts) - - Show Bio

Canon? Mace wins.

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#6 Posted by RGR (366 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it could go either way.

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#7 Posted by dark-sith123 (4870 posts) - - Show Bio

The gap in dueling isn't as great in Canon, and Vader should still be well ahead of Mace in power. I'd say he wins in a good fight, though it's not a stellar contest that Mace actually could win for a majority.

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#8 Edited by Aka_aka_aka_ak (2907 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace gives him the Kirak treatment.

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#10 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

Very close round 1 is Mace, 2 is Vader, 3 is either way.

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#11 Posted by Vivec3629 (446 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader wins in a grueling fight. Canon Mace is closer to him in dueling, but it's not enough to save him. Vader's strength in the Force exceeds him markedly. Mace makes him work for each, but the outcome is pretty much the same each time.

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#12 Posted by echostarlord117 (5576 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace > Sidious > Vader

loljk I'll say it could probably go either way.

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#13 Posted by Hope_w (2835 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace takes sabers, Vader takes round 2 however the all out can go either way but I have to favor Mace as Vader just simply isnt coming out the gates dominating in the force.

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#14 Edited by RedHeathen (2225 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

IT'S ALWAYS VADER.

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#15 Posted by ElSebbe (319 posts) - - Show Bio

Windu.

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#16 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6001 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader.

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#17 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2407 posts) - - Show Bio

The support for Canon Vader is pleasing

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#18 Posted by ironjedi2019 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it is vader just because he has a longer period of time to learn about the force. plus he has more feats.

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#19 Posted by Jerrah13 (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Vivec3629 said:

Vader wins in a grueling fight. Canon Mace is closer to him in dueling, but it's not enough to save him. Vader's strength in the Force exceeds him markedly. Mace makes him work for each, but the outcome is pretty much the same each time.

Ditto this.

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#20 Posted by peypey (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace. Period.

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#21 Edited by Kilius (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace. Unless you think Vader is equal to RotS Sidious who to the best of my knowledge didn't improve by any source in canon by RotJ.

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#22 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

Anakin>Vader so, Windu>Anakin = Windu>Vader.

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#23 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: Well, ill respect your opinion. But they did state if Anakin's legs never got cut off he would've been sooooo much more powerful. And his lightsaber combat was a lot better as Anakin, his suit made him slow and clunky.

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#25 Edited by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar said:

@americanspeeddemon: Well, ill respect your opinion. But they did state if Anakin's legs never got cut off he would've been sooooo much more powerful. And his lightsaber combat was a lot better as Anakin, his suit made him slow and clunky.

That's because Anakin's potential by having more midichlorian due to still having his legs and his arms, only an ''what if'' scenario, Anakin never reached his true potential.

Later the several sources states that Vader is more powerful than Anakin.

Pablo Hidalgo : ''This is Vader and his prime. You've got to remember how far we've come from the character when he was Anakin.''

Source: Rebels Recon #2.01: Inside "The Siege of Lothal"

''Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.''

Source: Star Wars Beware the Sith

“This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words.”

Source: Star Wars A New Hope Novel

And;

''He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it broken, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

(...)

When man and machine were one, he no longer felt the absence of his legs or arms, the pain of his flesh, but the hate remained, and the rage still burned. Those, he never relinquished, and he never felt more connected to the Force than when his fury burned.

(...)

The armor separated him from the galaxy, from everyone, made him singular, freed him from the needs of the flesh, the concerns of the body that once had plagued him, and allowed him to focus solely on his relationship to the Force.''

Source: Star Wars Lords of the Sith
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#26 Posted by dark-sith123 (4870 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader, though Mace makes him work for it.

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#27 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar: Anakin had more potential but he never reached it. Vader isn't all Anakin could be but he's more than or at least equal to how Anakin was.

I also don't think his lightsaber combat is better as Anakin. He's slower as Vader but still fast enough to keep up with everyone he's fought so far. And he uses a custom fighting style that makes him a tank. Vader hasn't dueled anyone i would say is as skilled as Dooku (though Ahsoka and Old Ben probably aren't too far away) but Vader has stomped a few jedi masters, an android stronger than Greivous and a sith lord.

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#28 Edited by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: I will say Vader was a lot better with the force than Anakin, because of the fact that he was crippled and couldn't move like he used to, Though I do believe Anakin would've been just as powerful in the force with practice. But Vader's saber combat also got affected. And was significantly worse than Anakin's.

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#29 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar: I don't think Vader is significantly worse. By feats Anakin might even be inferior.

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#30 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: Well, if you push feats out the window and look at it realistically. Anakin is just a better saber fighter plain and simple. Vader just had such slow movements that were easy to overcome. And Vaders strength is a non factor if he fought a faster opponent.

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#31 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar: Ahsoka was faster but Vader has really good defense and so it didn't matter. Vader has a slower fighting style but he is by no means slow especially in reactions.

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#32 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Fetts (6232 posts) - - Show Bio

I just can't wait until someone brings up the most recent issue of Darth Vader and tries to use this as proof...

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#34 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar: Luke, Obi Wan, Eeth Koth, Karbin. Vader has no shortage of feats fighting master level opponents. Also Ahsoka has feats against Grievous and Ventress to scale to.

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#35 Posted by freesid_stf123 (537 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader probably.

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#36 Posted by SpartanKobe (1118 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace stomps. He stomped Vader's master.

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#37 Posted by Kilius (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

Well a freshly suited Vader did ragdoll Sidious...

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#38 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2407 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, obviously Sidious wouldn't be able to break free from it like Kirak did.

Kirak>>>Sidious, eat ****, Sheevites

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#39 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2407 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace stomps. He stomped Vader's master.

So I guess Mace being unable to react to Sidious' initial attack, then getting driven back and held at blade point by Sidious, who for some reason decides not to stab through him equates to Mace stomping?

Yeah, obviously.

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#40 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: Did you just use the old obi wan vs Vader fight as an example?😂 Obi wan was wayyyyyyy out of practice.. and, well.. old. And Kenobi wanted him to kill him either way.

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#41 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar: old obi wan was younger than count dooku, qui gon, yoda, sidious. He wasn't out of practice in fact its stated he improved. And he beat Maul easier than he had ever done before showing his improvement.

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#42 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: If were talking about the time when he was living on Tatooine, so he could protect Luke if need be. And during this time he actually hadn't touch his lightsaber in years, for an exception of saving Luke from certain threats only a couple times, including maul, otherwise they were fodder, like sand people. But yes he did improve toward when he was nearing the end of protecting Luke, because thats when most of the threats started appearing. And obviously he was gaining more knowledge of the force.

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#43 Posted by Kilius (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon:

Even in Disney Canon it's implied in ANH that Kenobi is post-prime:

"I'm getting to old for this sort of thing" "Your powers are weak old man".

And when asked, Matt Martin said he would bet on RotS Kenobi over Ben Kenobi:

https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1008077670393901056

Dave Filini's quote, about growth is misinterpreted often:

Dave Filoni :

“It was a much-discussed thing on how that was gonna go down,” Filoni said. “The instinct would be, and probably, I admit, the expectation, is for some kind of prolonged lightsaber battle. But I’ve done a lot of prolonged lightsaber battles over the years and I think what’s most important about any kind of confrontation is what’s riding on it. What’s the tension going into it? It starts to matter less and less how you swing a sword or how creatively you do it if there’s not a lot riding on it.”

Filoni said the inspiration for the fight was Kyuzo, the master swordsman in Akira Kurosawa’s Seven Samurai, and his duel which he doesn’t want to fight because he knows it will be over quickly. Plus, Filoni saw an opportunity to really highlight their characters with a quick, decisive battle.

“I felt strongly Obi-Wan, if he could help it, would really rather not kill Darth Maul. Obi-Wan is at a point, in my mind, where he’s become rather enlightened. He’s been in the desert discovering who he is, really evolving as a character. He’s not that young brash kid that went into a fight with Maul out of anger for the fact his master was killed. It can’t be that same situation this is so many years later. Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That’s where his life went wrong. He can’t let it go.”

Nothing in that quote often used to hype Ben's growth has anything to do with combative prowess, just spiritual enlightenment and growth as a character, it doesn't preclude him being past his combative prime and being "too old for this sort of thing" by ANH.

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#44 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: I don't think this necessarily contradicts anything i said. Though i think Ben's feats against Vader and Maul are still fair. Its true he beat Maul easier than he ever has before though its partially due to mind set. And he was able to hold his own against Vader who's implied to be stronger than Dooku who has low diffed obi wan a few times.

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#45 Posted by blackpantherisb (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

Old Obi Wan has definitely improved since his fight with Anakin. A clear example of this is how he humiliated Maul in Rebels, when back in the clone wars they were a straight up match.

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#46 Posted by Madscientist224 (1460 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 mace, r2 Vader, r3 mace

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#47 Posted by Kilius (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon:

Twin Suns was WIS+CIS. It was only short for stylistic reasons not because post prime Maul is in post prime Kenobi’s stomping range.

Ben was hard pressed against Vader in the Canon SS “From a certain point of View”.

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#48 Posted by Kilius (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackpantherisb:

Maul was confirmed to be post prime by Matt Martin and the fight was short for stylistic reasons.

And it’s clearly stated by Kenobi himself that he “ is getting too old for this sort of thing”.

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#49 Posted by Grinningf0x (1467 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader should win both rounds

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#50 Posted by SpartanKobe (1118 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartankobe said:

Mace stomps. He stomped Vader's master.

So I guess Mace being unable to react to Sidious' initial attack, then getting driven back and held at blade point by Sidious, who for some reason decides not to stab through him equates to Mace stomping?

Yeah, obviously.

Mace stomps HARD. He absorbs Vader's dark side stuff with his Vapaad and he stomps.