Darth Vader vs Kyle Katarn/Jaden Korr

VS

Rules

• Standard morals and gear.
• Basic knowledge.
• Canon/EU allowed, of course.
• Fight takes place in the Death Star hangar.
• Start 30 feet apart.
• Win by death or KO.

Who wins and why?

@shootingnova@silver2467@dccomicsrule2011@i_like_swords@wollfmyth209@burnface@zapan87@eisenfauste@killerwasp@brightsteel@juiceboks

Kyle can Give Vader a Good Fight by himself. Adding Jaden in just seals the deal

team

Vader in both

Kyle isn't on his tier as a Lightsaber duelist, and Adding his student who is vastly inferior to the Dark lord won't help in sabers.

There is no debate what the outcome is once he utilizes his telekinesis

@burnface: IIRC Jaden has already beaten Kyle before.

I'll need to run through Jaden's feats again. If he beat a clone of Kyle in dueling, then yeah, the team takes everything.

Bump

Vader isn't very suitable for taking multiple opponents at the same time, and this team is skilled enough to take a majority.

Vader takes it.

LAWL @ Kyle giving Vades a good fight, I can agree it ain't a stomp but Kyle isn't exactly too near Vader level.

Vader wins.

Ooohhh nicee reading

This

@erkan12: Other than killing multiple Jedi in Rise of Darth Vader, killing 4 Jedi on Kessel, and killing scores of Lyleks with his lightsaber and telekinesis.

He's also faster than either of them in terms of feats.

Vader is a much better duelist than either of them and his general skill around his force powers is better and more precise.

@106me: Kyle isn't as skilled as Galen whose lightsaber skills were described as virtually unstoppable, was a master of multiple lightsaber forms, was repeatedly bested by Vader in TFU1 in sparring matches, and defeated One of the most skilled Jedi of the order a Shaak Ti. Nor is he as skilled as Ben Kenobi who bested A'Sharad Hett, and could fight off large Lyleks who could besiege entire cities.

Jaden fighting a random clone of Katarn, isn't saying much either seeing as Galen has better skill feats than either and Vader bested him and held back against his clone who inherited all of his fighting skill

@burnface:

Why do you bring up Galen, as he is highly irrelevant in this fight. Galen is much more powerful than Vader, so Jaden or Katarn being below him isn't anything to be ashamed of.

I'm going to have to brush up on Kyle, but I know for sure he isn't a non factor in this fight.

@106me

I never claimed it was anything to be ashamed of, only that Galen is a more impressive duelist than either in terms of feats. Galen's power isn't far ahead of Vader's, as he's never dominated him in the force and Vader has choked him and outskilled him as of the Force Unleashed 2.

was a master of multiple lightsaber forms,

Need a scan.

was repeatedly bested by Vader in TFU1 in sparring matches,

Those matches were in his early days. By the end of TFU1, he was able to defeat Vader without much difficulty.

That was before Vader had improved, and Vader had no problem defeating Starkiller by the second book.

One of the most skilled of that time period, maybe, but certainly not in all of star wars lore.

Its stated only the most skilled of the order could stand against her, and that was before her prime in The Force Unleashed. The Prequel trilogy is also stated as the Golden age of the Jedi, when they are at their combative peaks

So what if it's random? It's still a clone of Katarn he was able to beat, IIRC. Let's not grasp now...

Kyle really has nothing surpassing Galen or Starkiller in terms of skill is what I'm saying. Where is it stated that a clone would be as skilled as peak Kyle anyway?

The clone of Galen was unimpressive for the most part, I agree. He barely was able to beat Vader and had to rely on Dark Rage to do it. But, Vader was NOT able to beat Galen Marek by the end of TFU1. So again, I don't understand why you are bringing up an irrelevant powerhouse.

The point being Vader had improved and defeated the clone who inherited the fighting skill of the original that bested him. His power isn't relevant seeing as Vader outskilled him in their final duel. What does Katarn or Jaden have to compare?

@burnface: None of them were skilled as these two, and Lyleks are big enough to be an open target,

And then Vader gets criticism about his speed from a fodder jedi Kai Hudorra, someone such as Sha Koon, who is easily moved faster than him, or even Dark Woman in a one-on-one, or even a bounty hunter such as Awarru Tark, by going with his latest showings and Lucas' opinions where he was failing to beat Ben Kenobi, or didn't stomped ESB Luke, lastly he didn't stomp Kanan & Ezra duo, what should be a joke in comparison with him, and he wasn't doing any good against Cylo's Astarte twins who are not even a force sensitive beings.

Vader I know isn't fast enough to compete with these guys, but you can think otherwise, since there is an inconsistency with this, I am not going to argue on this.

@burnface: Off the top of my head, Jaden beat a Marka Ragnos possessed force user and proceeded to beat Marka Ragnos himself. He also out-dueled two training bots that were set on Luke's training level when he was just an apprentice.

I don't have time for a full debate, so I will come back later when I have brushed up on Katarn.

@burnface:

Kyle isn't as skilled as Galen whose lightsaber skills were described as virtually unstoppable

If we want to use hyperbole, Kyle bested an amped Desann; someone who Luke considered a threat after facing him in a duel, and after fighting his way through hordes of: AT-ST's, Stormtroopers, Dark Jedi/ShadowTroopers/Reborn.

That hardly puts Galen above Katarn.

was a master of multiple lightsaber forms

Kyle is proficient in over 7, your point?

was repeatedly bested by Vader in TFU1 in sparring matches

Circular argument is circular.

and defeated One of the most skilled Jedi of the order a Shaak Ti.

I'm pretty sure he was on the losing end of the dueling portion of the bout. He won through superior Force power, not skill.

@dccomicsrule2011

On her last three words, she struck three blows that each partially found their mark. The first burned a sizzling line down the apprentice’s left shoulder. The second scored diagonally across his chest. The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin. He could feel his eyelashes and eyebrows burning. The right side of his sight was entirely blue.

She gasped and staggered backward. Her lightsaber and her gaze dropped. A full half meter of red blade emerged from her stomach, then the rest came free with a hiss.

He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex. She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time.

-TFU 1

If by using telekinesis to simply block her lightsaber and gutting her amidst her "desperate final assault", I'm not sure what that has to do with "using his superior power" seeing as he impaled her and she overextended resulting in her death.

@burnface: Isn't Galen's win against Ti generally regarded as PIS?

I think the Team can take this.

Jaden could almost take this alone.

So, I'm pretty conflicted on this, but I'm thinking I'm going to give the advantage to the Team, for now.

Kyle Katarn being considered a threat by Caedus, whom was definitely stronger than Darth Vader, is quite an accolade. Even if Kyle isn't as powerful as Vader, he isn't far from it at all, and adding in a decent Force user in Jaden Korr should be enough to give the team the advantage.

But, like I said, I'm not sure.

This isn't remotely true

Team, unless it's Canon Vader.

Vader wins (maybe stomps?) until I'm shown otherwise.

inferior physically and as a duelist

Prime vader>marek

Kyle might solo. With Jaden they win decisevely.

Vader disintegrates them, lmfao.

We are ressurecting a lot of death threads Vader

Vader stomps.

Not sure if Vader can beat the team in a duel, especially when Katarn was a deemed a threat to Caedus, but in a Force contest he'd one-shot them.

Vader.

Kyle doesn't match up with him in combat at all.

Kyle and Jaden, decisively

Vader stomps. Caedus being cautious about Kyle doesn't change the fact he couldn't touch him.

Why do you think so, mate?

Desann, while amped by the Valley of the Jedi nexus, was able to contend with (and arguably defeat) post-DE Luke Skywalker, someone who is easily in Vader's league, if not his outright superior.

Kyle defeated Desann. Few facts to consider:

• During their final fight, Desann was amped further by Yavin's nexus.
• Kyle would logically by hampered by Yavin's nexus.
• Kyle defeated Desann after cutting his way through Yavin's jungle swarmed with stormtroopers and Reborn warriors (some of which were wearing cortosis infused armors). In fact we can go further with this and say that his marathon covered Cairn Installation, Doomgiver and then Yavin.
• This was still at the very early stage of his Jedi carrier. He had 30 years to grow in power and skill.

Kyle has already been DE Luke's pear during the events of Jedi Outcast. That alone puts him well beyond Vader's ability to one-shot him.

Oh I don't think so

Team takes it.

@the_wspanialy: Which is all nice, but it's about skill (which I didn't express my judgement about) not power, and honestly, Luke often has trouble with people he should stomp, especially when you consider that he can contend with Palpatine himself in dueling, someone with infinitely greater training, power and potential than Desann. And Luke isn't even the only one with this kind of showings, there are multiple other characters who get challenged by people they should stomp. On top of that, Katarn has no Force accolades or feats to put him close to Vader.

@erkan12: I know it's late but

One month after ROTS Vader faced 8 Jedi and killed 6 of them, the rest were killed by the 501st. So, no.