@wollfmyth209
Yet it would.
No, it wouldn’t.
It wasn't decades. It was just barely a decade.
Still considerably pre-prime. And Vader actually spent that time honing his combat abilities, whereas Plagueis concentrated on the more otherworldly aspects of the Force. His improvement as a combatant was minimal compared to Vader’s.
Ah, two of his hearts? You mean, besides the brain, literally the most important organs? A Muun can't survive with just a single heart, they needs three to bump enough blood for their extraordinarily large body. And the trachea is needed for proper breathing. So Plagueis cardiovascular and respiration(besides the nervous system, basically the most important ones) systems were extremely damaged. Y'know, that still makes the feat damn impressive.
Never said it was impressive; I said you were exaggerating his injuries.
He shook it with the telekinetic outburst.
No, he didn't.
“Plagueis moved his eyes just enough to fix the locations of some of the two dozen assassins that had survived the Sun Guards’ counterattack; then he dug deep into the Force, and catapulted himself on his feet. The closest of the assassins swung to him with raised vibroblades and rushed forward, only to be flung backward off the canted stage and against the room’s curved walls. Others Plagueis felled with his hands, snapping necks and putting his fists through armored torsoes. Spreading his arms wide, he clapped his hands together, turning every loose object in the vicinity into a deadly projectile. But the Maladians were far form run-of-the-mill murderers. Members of the cult had killed and wounded Jedi, and in response to confronting Force powers, they didn’t shrink or flee, but simply changed tactics, moving with astounding agility to surround Plagueis, and wait for openings.
The wait lasted only until Plagueis attempted to unleash lightning, his second subsidiary heart failed, paralyzing him with pain, and nearly plunging him into unconsciousness. The assassins waisted not a moment, throwing themselves at him in groups, though in a vain attempt to penetrate the Force shield he raised. Again he rallied, this time with a ragged sound, drenched from deep inside, that erupted from him like a sonic weapon, shattering the eardrums of those within ten meters, and compelling the rest to bring their hands to their ears.
In blinding motion, his hands smashed skulls and windpipes. He stopped once to conjure up a Force wave that all but atomized the bodies of six Maladians. He spun through a turn, dragging the wave halfway around the room, to kill a half a dozen more. But even that wasn’t enough to deter his assailants; they flew against him again, making the most of his momentary weakness, to open gashes on his arms and shoulders.
Down on one knee, he levitated a Sun Guard blaster from the floor and called it toward him, but of the assassins succeeded in altering the course of its trajetory, by hurling himself into the path of the airborne weapon.
With nothing more than the Force of his mind, Plagueis rattled the floor, knocking some assassins off their feet, but others rushed in to take their places, slashing at him with their vibroblades from every angle.
He knew he had life enough to conjure one final counter-offensive. He was a moment from loosing hell on the Maladians, when he sensed Sidious enter the room.”
–Darth Plagueis.
He didn’t shake the floor alongside the Force wave or Force bellow; he used them separately.
So they weren't Force sensitives, doesn't take away from the feat.
It does, though not significantly.
Great, Vader pulverizes armoured bugs, Plagueis disintigrates armoured assassins with physical stats that rival Jedi. Just looking at it at face value Plagueis' feat is better, or at least equal. Take into consideration Plagueis' near-death state, he's decades before his prime, most of his power was focused on keeping him alive and you see who's better.
You completely ignored the excerpt I posted that countered your notion that they were totally disintegrated. As I said before, it’s a hyperbole, and the aftermath clearly described amputations.
The Maladians’ physicals are irrelevant, since they aren’t blaster-resistant, whereas the lyleks are. Pulvering blaster-resistant things > pulverizing non-blaster-resistant things – no matter whether they rival Jedi or not.
The only thing that makes Plagueis’ feat less inferior is the state he was in.
Not at all. Luceno confirmed Plagueis is more powerful,
- It’s his opinion.
- I’ve never seen that quote. For all I know, it could be completely fabricated.
and Plagueis sent out a Force Wave while drunk and half asleep and never genuinely meant to hurt Palpatine -- he was purposefully letting Palpatine disable his mask so he can test his midi-chlorian manipulation...
it failed because Plagueis was a drunk, arrogant idiot at the time, but his Force Wave was never intended to full-on blast Sidious away and decimate him.
Fair enough. I re-read the passage, and Sidious himself admitted they were equals. You were right.
Sure, Starkiller > Maul, but Vader ain't dominating either.
He will dominate Maul, and did dominate Starkiller. It is domination when your opponent is helpless for like a half a minute.
Canonical superiority points to Plagueis being superior to them in nearly every field. TK is included.
No, it doesn’t. It simply means Plagueis is better than all his predecessors at combat. It does not specifify how; it’s only a generalized statement. Vader himself is canonically superior to Gethzerion, who has one-shot Luke, a feat beyond Vader’s TK capablities.
Vader has yet to excert superiority over someone more powerful than a planet-ravaging nexus
Quote about Bane being “more powerful than a planet-ravaging nexus”? Anyway, Starkiller > Bane.
or broken the barrier of someone who shielded several strongholds through TK.
Magnitude ≠ radius. We’ve no idea how strong Gravid’s barriers actually were, only that they encompassed a large area.
Rage has often weakened foes.
When? Everything I know states the opposite. And you can’t seriously claim every time an enraged opponent has been dominated for more than twenty seconds he was weakened by rage.
Especially Force Rage which has been noted as exhausting ones Force reserves
He literally went enraged two seconds before being Force-gripped by Vader. And what proof do you have he got exhausted during the fight?
and supposedly lowering their defenses,
Keyword: supposedly. It’s a logical argument, but until definitive proof is presented, it remains untrue. And besides, if he could’ve broken free, he would’ve.
yet boosting their physical condition/augmentation.
On that note, Vader was stalemating an enraged Starkiller, and when both went enraged, Vader began rapidly pushing Starkiller back. The potency of his physical empowerment does translate into telekintetic power as well. It all comes from a single reserve of Force energy.
Plus being "combat-ready" doesn't mean you're gonna have your Force Shields up at a 100%.
Of course it doesn’t, but the result is often a Force push that the target retaliates from immediately, not a full-on Force grip that prevents the target from doing anything and just hanging there helplessly.
The platforms were something Starkiller didn't even attempt to throw back, IIRC.
No, but he clearly struggled to stop the movement of one platform, and didn’t even attempt to influence the others.
And he didn't disarm him via TK,
Yes, he did.
plus 'Killer purposefully let him disarm him in a pure duel so he can exploit a lul in Vader's defenses and start abusing his Force powers against him.
Only in the novel, which doesn’t take precedence over any other version of TFU II.
Actually, it happens in the game. A primary way to beat Vader in-game is too hold him onto a pillar during a cinematic and he has trouble breaking free from the grip.
He was constantly being electrocuted by high-voltage lightning, distracting him, so of course it was easier for Starkiller to keep him pinned there. And his chest isn’t sliced open in-game.
Plus the creators themselves said Starkiller is meant to be a rival to Vader.
He does rival, not equal.
You're not a rival if he dominates you.
The creators disagree with you, then.
And Vader's casually came back from being slashed on the chest-plate several times(just ask Galen Marek and Sha Koon).
Galen Marek and Sha Koon are inferior to the clone. And we never even see the context of Vader being “pinned” to the pillar. For all we know he was simply pushed and the combination of electricity and his slashed-open chest-plate took him out of the fight.
So easily it weakens him and his life support considerably. And a Plagueis decades pre-prime has a feat of deflecting omnidirectional fire. Not impressed.
Plagueis’ feat is irrelevant here, since he’s attacking, not defending with lightning. Vader can block it from every angle – that was my point.
I never said it would. Granted, nobody has yet made a case as to how Plagueis can't use it on a foe inferior to him in the Force.
It took Plagueis roughly a minute in concentration to kill Veruna, a being with roughly 2500 midi-chlorians per cell. It would take him a lot longer to kill a being with 10000+ midi-chlorians while in concentraion, not to mention when he’s in active combat.
So how does knowledge help Plagueis here?
Also, why bump a thread after its dead for several days?
This thread has been bumbed when it was dead for almost two years, and again, when it was dead for another year. I even had something to add to the discussion, so how is what I did such a big crime?
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