Darth Vader (ROTJ) vs Darth Sidious (ROTS)

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Jueix

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Canon fight.

Fight takes place on the Death Star.

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deactivated-5edbb4007f071

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Sheev...

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God-Thanatos1

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The senate one should win.

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Warlockmage

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One could argue for Vader given the feats he's getting in his comics and such now... at this point this fight is determined by 2 things

1. How seriously you take statements over feats

2. how much you rely on Yoda's mountain feat (which tbh is probably an outlier for him at the moment)

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SuperNotebook

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Wasn't it expressly stated by Lucas that Suited Vader was about 80% of what the emperor's full power was? Vaders suit even has a built-in weakness to force lightning. Sheev Destroys.

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Alphamon

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Palp should take this

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Necromancer76

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Creamy Sheev

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firelordiroh

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If you believe Vader wins this than that means ROTJ Luke is a Yoda tier fighter.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Wasn't it expressly stated by Lucas that Suited Vader was about 80% of what the emperor's full power was? Vaders suit even has a built-in weakness to force lightning. Sheev Destroys.

Yes, it was. Not the Emperor's full power, but the ROTS Emperor.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Sidious one-shots.

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indominus

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indominus

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the one with unlimited power!!!

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MyGod000

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#14  Edited By MyGod000

@supernotebook said:

Wasn't it expressly stated by Lucas that Suited Vader was about 80% of what the emperor's full power was? Vaders suit even has a built-in weakness to force lightning. Sheev Destroys.

3 things wrong with your post.

  1. That was ROTS suit Vader that was 80% of ROTS Sidious.
  2. This is Vader 22 years Later after ROTS.
  3. that George Lucas quotes means very little in Disney Canon, since he has no authority in the new Disney canon.

ROTJ Vader is way more powerful than ROTS Sidious as even in ROTS Suit Vader was powerful enough to ragdoll Sidious with the force.

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This Vader is 22 years Weaker than ROTJ Vader. their is no sources in Disney canon that states Vader is 80% of Sidious...If so show me, George lucas statements hold no power in Disney.

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firelordiroh

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If you believe Vader wins this than that means ROTJ Luke is a Yoda tier fighter.

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Void_Reborn

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#17  Edited By Void_Reborn

@mygod000 said:
@supernotebook said:

Wasn't it expressly stated by Lucas that Suited Vader was about 80% of what the emperor's full power was? Vaders suit even has a built-in weakness to force lightning. Sheev Destroys.

3 things wrong with your post.

  1. That was ROTS suit Vader that was 80% of ROTS Sidious.
  2. This is Vader 22 years Later after ROTS.
  3. that George Lucas quotes means very little in Disney Canon, since he has no authority in the new Disney canon.

ROTJ Vader is way more powerful than ROTS Sidious as even in ROTS Suit Vader was powerful enough to ragdoll Sidious with the force.

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This Vader is 22 years Weaker than ROTJ Vader. their is no sources in Disney canon that states Vader is 80% of Sidious...If so show me, George lucas statements hold no power in Disney.

Ridiculous. Vader managed to knock Palpatine away ONE time because of MASSIVE rage and regret amp and Sids wasn't even expecting it. He then gets casually shut down by lightning right after this panel. How in the world is he stronger than Palps here?

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Void_Reborn

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ferriserris

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ROTJ luke ls ventress level, he can compete wlth vader but was only able to beat hlm to due to hls rage amp

OT: Palpatlne wlns wlth some dlffuculty, hes not stomplng

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Warlockmage

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@firelordiroh said:

If you believe Vader wins this than that means ROTJ Luke is a Yoda tier fighter.

lol simply not true at all... but keep believing it. Because it wasn't explicitly stated several times that Vader was holding back, not trying to kill his son, and convert him. Lucas also definitely didn't say Vader was massively stronger than RoTJ Luke either definitely didn't happen

Well, children love power because children are the powerless. And so their fantasies all center on having power. And who’s more powerful than Darth Vader, you know? And, some, you know, will be attracted to Luke Skywalker because he’s the good guy. But ultimately, we all know that Darth Vader’s more powerful than he is.

--https://billmoyers.com/content/mythology-of-star-wars-george-lucas/

so go spread your lies somewhere else

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firelordiroh

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@warlockmage:

Lucas quotes don't hold any legitmacy in canon anymore remember he also thought Anakin was far stronger than Vader but that's not true in canon.

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The_Holocrom

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#22  Edited By The_Holocrom

Vader takes the cake. In the Darth Vader: Chosen one comic series directly after Vader gets off the operating table of ep 3, Vader was able to pin sidious to the wall and attempt a force choke, hence Vader at his most inexperienced and arguably weakest state was able to easily break sidious force wall.

By the time of ROTJ Vader has already dueled and defeated all the inquisitors at once, leaving every single one of them with an injury they would not forget, the 9th sister lost an eye..ouch, and one of the brothers lost an entire arm lol. He has one shotted the Grand Inquisitor, Has completely over powered ahsoka in their duel on malastre, with rebels ahsoka being a better duelist then Maul when he fought sidious and even better then Son of dathomir maul. In the Canon Maul is ranked #3 right below sidious in dueling skills. Vader has toyed with an enraged high council member eeth koth and after destroying him in the duel only to kidnap his daughter in front of him, then stabbed him in the back as koth weakly smiled at his daughter...bane would be so proud. He has the 2nd sister shaking in her boots to even look at him. On malastre maul didn't even attempt to fight Vader saying even with him Ezra Kanan and ahsoka they don't stand a chance. Also Vader has fought a cyborg who was one of cylos creation and said to be an upgraded version of grievious and Vader absolutely toyed with the man. Vader has been surrounded by a thousand rebels, multiple tanks and completely alone only to emerge from the battle the Victor. Also yet this is highly debatable, in the final issue if Darth Vader dark lord if the sith comic series when Vader enters the portal he sees his past life everything from shmi, to ahsoka, to obiwan. He enters one if the portals and encounters a group of Jedi masters (Yoda, Quinlan vos, shaak ti, mace windu, kirak infila, eeth koth etc) and proceeded to duel them all as they were the last obstacle to him resurrecting padme or bringing her with him through the portal? Idk? Anyway, Vader killed them all with Yoda being the last to fall. Yet it was in Anakins body not Vader's. It was basically Vader in the body of Anakin once he entered the portal and was able to slaughter the greatest of Jedi all at once. Can Anakin do that? Highly debatable if not NO! What was the difference? It was Vader mentality. His dueling skill, his force mastery, and his experience combined with anakins body turned him into an unstoppable monster. Or as sidious once said "He would become more powerful then the both of us".

Force feats? Vader has almost dismantled and crushed An AT-AT with the force. Has held the planetary oceans of mon calamari when master Barr attempted to crush him with the weight of water. He has survived being submerged in lava by creating a protective force buble, while simultaneously pulling an AT-AT for him to leap on. He has ripped open the fabric of the force creating a portal to the world between worlds...sadly he could not change his destiny unlike ezra. He has learned at the feet of lord momin the secrets of the force. He has been able to almost resurrect padme using the eon engine, the bright star and the force Nexus on mustafar. He has one shotted Jedi master cere and tanked a lightsaber stab to the stomach without a flinch. He has been able to will himself to move even if his suit is disabled, and is capable of holding exploded grenades in a force bubble.

EP 9 sidious lightning was capable of wiping out a navy fleet. In the ROS expanded edition novel it has been stated ROS Sidious was weaker then ROTJ sidious. So Vader is able to tank Lightning that can wipe out a navy fleet. Plus keep in mind Vader suit is more sensitive to it, so in reality the lightning was even stronger yet he still prevailed.

There is honestly no way sidious is winning this fight. 10/10 Vader, He is a better Duelist, more powerful in the force, and much much more knowledgeable. Rotj sidious is a much different story. The man spent 20 years not playing senator but practicing his force mastery. In the tarkin book we see sidious Visits the sith temple on coruscant attempting to wrestle the final secrets of the darkside, he believes that temple is the key and Vader is oblivious to the temple existence, however he admits that with Vader power they would finally know the secrets and go beyond what plagueis could achieve.

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ProfessorNobody

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@the_holocrom: In the ROS novel that says palpatine in ep 9 is weaker than in rotj. Is that ROS palpatine before or after his amp. Because his massive lightning feat was after the amp.

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AlexTheBoss

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Palpatine high difficulty. His dueling feat against Maul and Savage is better than any dueling feat Vader has, and force lightning is a big advantage.

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The_Holocrom

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#25  Edited By The_Holocrom

@alextheboss: not true at all. Rebels ahsoka is a better duelist then Maul in his fight with sidious and even SOD maul, let alone more powerful. Keep in mind she is the only Jedi to reverse the bleeding process of a kyber crystal and has transversed the world between worlds. As a Padawan she was able to contest with maul only leaving due to order 66 and the clone betrayal. In their second short duel, ahsoka was out classing him. Pushing him back, attacking from all angles and keeping the pressure on him...yes I know it's just normal form 4 but ahsoka was a master. The fact that maul ran from Vader where as Ahsoka confronted him also shows she is stronger then him in her confidence, yes she also went to save Ezra.

Also force Lightning is not as big an advantage as we were led to believe, if Rey can easily block it I garuantee Vader can aswell.

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The_Holocrom

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@professornobody: you are correct, it is after he sucks their life force. However I am not sure if the life force increased his connection to the force or simply restored his destroyed body so he doesn't have to be tied to the machine. I'll let you know tommorow morning when the book officially releases.

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ProfessorNobody

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PayneInTheAss

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#28  Edited By PayneInTheAss

Palps

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AlexTheBoss

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@the_holocrom:

not true at all. Rebels ahsoka is a better duelist then Maul in his fight with sidious and even SOD maul, let alone more powerful.

Prove it.

Keep in mind she is the only Jedi to reverse the bleeding process of a kyber crystal

Ok? How is that combat relevant?

and has transversed the world between worlds.

Only because Ezra pulled her through it... And that was after her fight with Vader. And again, not combat relevant.

As a Padawan she was able to contest with maul only leaving due to order 66 and the clone betrayal.

Lets wait and see what actually happens. In the book she had help from the clones as far as I'm aware.

In their second short duel, ahsoka was out classing him. Pushing him back, attacking from all angles and keeping the pressure on him...yes I know it's just normal form 4 but ahsoka was a master.

In their short fight they were pretty much even. Ahsoka even showed strain while fighting him.

The fact that maul ran from Vader where as Ahsoka confronted him also shows she is stronger then him in her confidence, yes she also went to save Ezra.

Maul didn't run from Vader, he fell of the pyramid.

Also force Lightning is not as big an advantage as we were led to believe, if Rey can easily block it I garuantee Vader can aswell.

Rey was being amped by the past jedi.

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MyGod000

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@the_holocrom: In the ROS novel that says palpatine in ep 9 is weaker than in rotj. Is that ROS palpatine before or after his amp. Because his massive lightning feat was after the amp.

He was weaker than his ROTJ during ROS. It stated, it also stated because He was a clone he wasn't as powerful as he could have been. That was before the Dyad.

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MyGod000

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Palpatine high difficulty. His dueling feat against Maul and Savage is better than any dueling feat Vader has, and force lightning is a big advantage.

Vader pinning Sidious to the wall says no.

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deactivated-5edbb4007f071

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@mygod000: he didn't pin him though. He caught him.off guard and was gradually overpowered.

Not to mention that was probably the biggest moment of anger he ever had in his life.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: he didn't pin him though. He caught him.off guard and was gradually overpowered.

Not to mention that was probably the biggest moment of anger he ever had in his life.

he was pinned....and that was the weakest Version of Vader as well. so if he was only gradually getting the upper hand after some time then he get owned by the much more powerful versions of Vader.

He wasn't caught off Guard as the ROTJ made it clear Sidious can see the future and can sense Vaders thoughts. so...try again. Vader would Smoke ROTS Sidious, especially Rebels and ROTJ Vader who are far more powerful than Vader duel ROTS.

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AlexTheBoss

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@mygod000: How many times to I have to tell you that was a surprise attack? Palpatine broke right out of that a second later.

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MyGod000

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#35  Edited By MyGod000

@alextheboss said:

@mygod000: How many times to I have to tell you that was a surprise attack? Palpatine broke right out of that a second later.

How many times do I have to tell you that it wasn't a surprise attack when Sidious can read Vaders mind and has always been able to do that.

what does that have to do with Sidious still be pinned to the wall by Vader force powers is beyond me.

this is Vader at his weakest and sidious ROTS is only barely able to stop Vader from Force choking him yet he was still pinned to the wall.

If ROTS Vader can do that to Sidious, then ROTJ Vader handily beats ROTS Sidious. Sidious only chance is to overload Vader suit.

It time for you to face facts, it time for you to realize that ROTJ Vader is far more powerful than ROTS Sidious. If his weakest form is a peer of ROTS Sidious, then a 22 Years of training Vader is going to destroy ROTS Sidious.

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Richard96

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Sidious wins.

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El_mago

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vader dies

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AlexTheBoss

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@mygod000:

How many times do I have to tell you that it wasn't a surprise attack when Sidious can read Vaders mind and has always been able to do that.

If Sidious knew it was coming he would have stopped him. Either that or he wanted it to happen.

what does that have to do with Sidious still be pinned to the wall by Vader force powers is beyond me.

He wasn't... I've been over this with you before. The walled was partially caved in and he was just resting on it. He was only pushed up against the wall by Vader for a second. The rest of the time he was just sitting/leaning against the wall.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

How many times do I have to tell you that it wasn't a surprise attack when Sidious can read Vaders mind and has always been able to do that.

If Sidious knew it was coming he would have stopped him. Either that or he wanted it to happen.

what does that have to do with Sidious still be pinned to the wall by Vader force powers is beyond me.

He wasn't... I've been over this with you before. The walled was partially caved in and he was just resting on it. He was only pushed up against the wall by Vader for a second. The rest of the time he was just sitting/leaning against the wall.

He did know. the novels stated that Sidious knew vader every thoughts.

No, he was still pushed up against the wall. like I said that was Vader at his absolute weakest. Vader has far greater feats than ROTS Sidious.

Maul duel means nothing when Ahsoka as a padawan can survive a duel against him, and rebels ahsoka being so powerful that she was the only one who can stand up to Rebels Vader and Sidious. which is a far more powerful Sidious than ROTS sidious.

that alone put vader above ROTS Sidious in dueling who lost against Mace windu. ahsoka is stated to be the 3rd best Light saber duel of all time in the jedi Order.

the fact that Vader surpassed Anakin complete proves that. Dark side Anakin is stated to be superior to ROTS Sidious.

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AlexTheBoss

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@mygod000:

No, he was still pushed up against the wall.

He was clearly sitting up straight and his back wasn't even touching the wall. I'm ok with the opinion of prime Vader being stronger than ROTS Palpatine, but your lies need to stop. It's just wasting everyone's time.

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Maul duel means nothing when Ahsoka as a padawan can survive a duel against him,

Lets wait and see what actually happens in the duel before we start making assumptions.

and rebels ahsoka being so powerful that she was the only one who can stand up to Rebels Vader and Sidious. which is a far more powerful Sidious than ROTS sidious.

Rebels Maul already fought on par with her for a bit anyways so it doesn't even matter. He did better against the inquisitors than her too. They are around the same level.

that alone put vader above ROTS Sidious in dueling who lost against Mace windu.

Palpatine may have threw the fight.

ahsoka is stated to be the 3rd best Light saber duel of all time in the jedi Order.

That was from Kanan's voice actor. It isn't an official statement. Palpatine's actor said Palpatine threw the fight with Mace, so if you go with actor statements your argument crumbles away.

Dark side Anakin is stated to be superior to ROTS Sidious.

No he isn't. Yoda flat out said the emperor was more powerful in the movie.

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Redshift_Bacon

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Rebels Vader > ROTS Anakin/Vader

If we’re expected to believe that Dooku+Ventress could match Sidious, and Anakin defeated Dooku... then to say that by ROTJ, when Vader is stated Prime, and 14 years AFTER Vader surpassed ROTS Anakin during Rebels, I mean, cmon. At some point you have to accept that Legends ROTS Sidious > Canon ROTS Sidious, and that ROTJ Vader > Canon ROTS Sidious.

ROTJ Vader also believes that he can defeat ROTJ Sidious with Luke, a Sidious far more powerful than his ROTS Self.

Combined with his feats against Sidious in the comics, I think that to claim that ROTS Sidious can take a majority against ROTJ Vader, is downplaying Vader by a lot.

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MyGod000

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#42  Edited By MyGod000

@alextheboss:

He was clearly sitting up straight and his back wasn't even touching the wall. I'm ok with the opinion of prime Vader being stronger than ROTS Palpatine, but your lies need to stop. It's just wasting everyone's time.

when Did I lie? I never said any lie. you are the one omitting the facts, and making up every excuse in the book to dismiss feats.

No Caption Provided

Sidious was literally able to sense Vader mind and knew he was mad. You making up the excuse that he was caught off guard doesn't make any sense from a narrative perspective at all when Sidious has always been able to Sense Vaders Mind.

since we are using the movies here you go Sidious literally was sensing Vader mind and thoughts.

Loading Video...

Stop making up excuses...Sidious got Ragdolled back and couldn't stop it at all prepared or not.

Lets wait and see what actually happens in the duel before we start making assumptions.

It not an assumption...it literally stated what happened in the untold story of it that Ahsoka was able to survive the duel with Maul.

Rebels Maul already fought on par with her for a bit anyways so it doesn't even matter. He did better against the inquisitors than her too. They are around the same level.

No, she was able to overpower maul in the blade-lock.

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then We saw Failed Jedi Padwan Kanan topple Maul in the same sense so clearly Ahsoka would have beat maul if she was seriously trying to kill him.

Palpatine may have threw the fight.

maybe in Legends or George Lucas Canon...but in Disney Canon no such statements has ever been stated. Mace Beat Sidious in fair Combat.

That was from Kanan's voice actor. It isn't an official statement. Palpatine's actor said Palpatine threw the fight with Mace, so if you go with actor statements your argument crumbles away.

Considering Ahsoka could handle and survive both fights with Vader and Rebels Sidious...then that easily put Her in top 3 best in the order ever. Mace Struggled with Sidious 14 years Weaker than Rebels Sidious. By logic and Common sense...Ahsoka would need to be at least around the level of Mace and Dooku in dueling.

No he isn't. Yoda flat out said the emperor was more powerful in the movie.

That was Yoda just talking trash, Just like when he said that he was going to end Sidious rule and failed. Since we saw Vader Stomping Jedi masters with one hand and a light saber. Show me Yoda Doing the same to a Jedi Master.

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Vader stomped Dooku pretty easily in their duel, Something Yoda didn't do in his duel with Dooku.

Edit: you missed my point since everything I say to you goes over your head. Me being up suit Vader in ROTS pinning ROTS sidious was to show they are peers in force.

so...22 years later after ROTS Vader would destroy ROTS Sidious. you be on every thread saying ROTS Sidious beats ROTJ Vader and Rebels vader when that doesn't make sense at all. ROTS suit Vader is already enough to ragdoll him with the force easily, so much more powerful version of Vader would easily beat That Sidious.

especially since the novels explain that ROTJ Vader=<ROTJ Sidious.

who is the strongest Version of Sidious until Dyad and even then that Sidious wasn't as powerful as Sidious would have been if he hadn't died and used a clone body.

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MyGod000

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#43  Edited By MyGod000

@redshift_bacon said:

Rebels Vader > ROTS Anakin/Vader

If we’re expected to believe that Dooku+Ventress could match Sidious, and Anakin defeated Dooku... then to say that by ROTJ, when Vader is stated Prime, and 14 years AFTER Vader surpassed ROTS Anakin during Rebels, I mean, cmon. At some point you have to accept that Legends ROTS Sidious > Canon ROTS Sidious, and that ROTJ Vader > Canon ROTS Sidious.

ROTJ Vader also believes that he can defeat ROTJ Sidious with Luke, a Sidious far more powerful than his ROTS Self.

Combined with his feats against Sidious in the comics, I think that to claim that ROTS Sidious can take a majority against ROTJ Vader, is downplaying Vader by a lot.

Exactly. Especially since Dark side Anakin was already on ROTS Sidious and ROTS Yoda tier already, in both Continuities.

Dark side Amp Anakin>=ROTS Sidious>ROTS Yoda.

Vader handily takes out ROTS Sidious.

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MyGod000

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welp it pretty much implied in the novel that If Leia trained she would be more powerful than Luke.

Full potential Vader>>Full Potential Leia=>Full Potential Luke>Any Version of Sidious

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AlexTheBoss

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@mygod000:

when Did I lie?

One time you said Vader held Sidious against the wall for over a minute even though it was only for one page. And now you are saying he was constantly holding him up against the wall when we clearly see Palpatine stopping it on panel.

I never said any lie.

I just gave you two examples.

you are the one omitting the facts, and making up every excuse in the book to dismiss feats.

No. You are completely blinded by your bias.

I'll explain each page for you since you clearly aren't understanding what's happening in them.

Sidious uses the force to stop Vader.

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Palpatine is completely free and fine and overpowers Vader with lightning.

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Sidious was literally able to sense Vader mind and knew he was mad. You making up the excuse that he was caught off guard doesn't make any sense from a narrative perspective at all when Sidious has always been able to Sense Vaders Mind.

Knowing Vader was mad and knowing he would push him are two different things. It's not like Vader planned to push Palpatine. He just impulsively decided to do it out of anger.

since we are using the movies here you go Sidious literally was sensing Vader mind and thoughts.

I know Palpatine can read Vader's thoughts...

Stop making up excuses...Sidious got Ragdolled back and couldn't stop it at all prepared or not.

Being pushed back isn't being ragdolled. Another one of your lies/exaggerations.

It not an assumption...it literally stated what happened in the untold story of it that Ahsoka was able to survive the duel with Maul.

Yes, because she had the help of clones and lead him into a ray shield trap.

No, she was able to overpower maul in the blade-lock.

Slightly pushing back his saber doesn't prove anything. If that was enough proof she would win, then Maul would have known he would have lost as well. Pushing someone's saber back a few inches has never been proof of anything.

then We saw Failed Jedi Padwan Kanan topple Maul in the same sense so clearly Ahsoka would have beat maul if she was seriously trying to kill him.

First off, Kanan was never a failed padawan. He already beat the grand inquisitor who was already easily as strong as some jedi masters. Second off, Maul was overconfident and Kanan was amped.

but in Disney Canon no such statements has ever been stated. Mace Beat Sidious in fair Combat.

Show me where Disney canon states this.

That was Yoda just talking trash, Just like when he said that he was going to end Sidious rule and failed.

How is Yoda telling Obi-wan to fight Anakin because the emperor was too strong for him talking trash?

Show me Yoda Doing the same to a Jedi Master.

Yoda doesn't even need a lightsaber to beat someone who is jedi master level.

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This is about how Anakin stacks up to Sidious and Yoda.

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Vader stomped Dooku pretty easily in their duel, Something Yoda didn't do in his duel with Dooku.

Dooku is old. He had to fight Anakin and Obi-wan at the same time, and then Anakin called on his anger and started bashing on Dooku. Dooku only fought Yoda for about 20-30 seconds before running away anyways. His fight against Anakin and Obi-wan was longer.

Edit: you missed my point since everything I say to you goes over your head.

No, I know exactly what you are saying, it's just that pretty much everything you say his your head canon.

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MyGod000

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#46  Edited By MyGod000

@alextheboss:

One time you said Vader held Sidious against the wall for over a minute even though it was only for one page. And now you are saying he was constantly holding him up against the wall when we clearly see Palpatine stopping it on panel.

Why are you lying? I never once said he pinned him for a minute. I said him pinning Sidious up against the Wall put ROTS suit Vader as a peer to Sidious.

I just gave you two examples.

No, you didn't. You literally just lied saying that I said he held him on the wall for a minute when the point was That Vader being able to ragdoll Sidious while at his weakest proves the later versions of Vader stomps ROTS Sidious.

No. You are completely blinded by your bias.

I'll explain each page for you since you clearly aren't understanding what's happening in them.

I have no bias. I not the one going on every thread like you are, and saying ROTJ Vader is weaker than ROTS Sidious when Dark amped Anakin is already greater than ROTS Sidious.

Vader 5 years after ROTS>Dark Side amp Anakin>=ROTS sidious>Yoda.

Sidious stopped Vader from force choking him by using the force he didn't stop Vader from ragdolling him on the wall. Vader Tanks that force lightning while at his weakest so what?

Knowing Vader was mad and knowing he would push him are two different things. It's not like Vader planned to push Palpatine. He just impulsively decided to do it out of anger.

Head canon. We are shown that Sidious can read every bit of Vaders mind and knows what he is thinking.

I know Palpatine can read Vader's thoughts...

Then their is no way Sidious was Caught off Guard then...since we know Sidious was scared of Anakin returning back even before ROTJ and Sidious knew Vader would betray him as it is stated in the novels. so...there is no Surprise attack that Vader can do to catch Sidious off Guard when he knews every thing Vader is going to do.

Being pushed back isn't being ragdolled. Another one of your lies/exaggerations.

Being send back crashing into a metal table and cracking it is being ragdolled. you not wanting to accept that isn't my problem. so far, you I've lied saying That I said held Sidious for a minute...where did it even say he was in that position for a minute anyways?

Yes, because she had the help of clones and lead him into a ray shield trap.

The clones didn't do anything in that scene where I just showed you Anakin Killing a Jedi Master. stop Lying.

Slightly pushing back his saber doesn't prove anything. If that was enough proof she would win, then Maul would have known he would have lost as well. Pushing someone's saber back a few inches has never been proof of anything.

the fact that She Could survive Vader and Sidious while Maul at his best couldn't even handle TCW Sidious who is vastly weaker.

First off, Kanan was never a failed padawan. He already beat the grand inquisitor who was already easily as strong as some jedi masters. Second off, Maul was overconfident and Kanan was amped.

Okay, and Kanan never finished his training since his master died before he could finish to become a Jedi Knight. also, Vader after getting his new suit during a couple of days after ROTS could one shot the Grand inquisitor. Vader while Toying around owned and destroyed Kanan in a duel. Ahsoka lasted longer against Vader than Maul lasted against Kanan. so clearly proves she would beat maul pretty handily if she was seriously trying to kill him or rage amped.

Show me where Disney canon states this.

You can't shift Burden of proof on me. you are the one who claimed Sidious throw the fight. I am telling you no such thing was ever said in Disney canon so you need to show me the proof of where you got that idea from. If you mention George Lucas Just know he also stated dark side Anakin beats Sidious.

How is Yoda telling Obi-wan to fight Anakin because the emperor was too strong for him talking trash?

Because Anakin was Mentally unbalance and vulnerable.

Yoda doesn't even need a lightsaber to beat someone who is jedi master level.

that is nice, now show me him doing that against Dooku, Who Dark side Anakin Stomped. I don't see how a Dark side Anakin wouldn't be able to do the same thing since he is more powerful than ROTS Sidious.

This is about how Anakin stacks up to Sidious and Yoda.

Head canon. Because Sidious couldn't even do that against Maul and Sidious>Yoda.

Dooku is old. He had to fight Anakin and Obi-wan at the same time, and then Anakin called on his anger and started bashing on Dooku. Dooku only fought Yoda for about 20-30 seconds before running away anyways. His fight against Anakin and Obi-wan was longer.

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So...now Dooku is old and weak when Anakin beat him handily and easily.

The Same Dooku+Ventress team up had Sidious a few months Before ROTS Scared completely. Dark side Anakin and ROTS Suit Vader are both already more powerful than Dooku ever was in the force even in prime Dooku would get owned by Anakin or Vader.

Base Anakin is already on par with Obi-wan. Dark Side Anakin>>>Obi-wan.

Vader 5 years after ROTS>Dark amped ROTS Anakin>ROTS Sidious>ROTS prime Yoda

No, I know exactly what you are saying, it's just that pretty much everything you say his your head canon.

you're the only one using Head canon in this debate.

you tried to use a force Vision from Yoda to claim Anakin would lose to Sidious. as a Evidence of your findings....SMH

If that is the Case I can use a Vision of Vader where he killed Sidious.

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the only time Sidious has Beaten Vader with force lightning was when Vader didn't have his light saber. as mace showed you can block sidious force lightning with a light saber easily, and Rey showed that you can block Sidious force Lightning with a light saber...so why wouldn't Vader be able to do that when he far better than Mace and Rey.

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AlexTheBoss

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@mygod000:

Why are you lying? I never once said he pinned him for a minute. I said him pinning Sidious up against the Wall put ROTS suit Vader as a peer to Sidious.

You said it in a few weeks ago in another thread.

"how is someone surprised for a whole 2 mins? that doesn't even make Sense at all, the point was Sidious couldn't break out of Vader's Grip, which was strong enough to overpower Sidious. which means Sidious Couldn't overpower Vader."

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-maul-and-darth-vader-vs-darth-sidious-2067937/?page=4

So you actually said it was 2 minutes, which is even worse. You made me waist my time, but I proved you were a liar, and now I caught you in your lie. Either that our you have a bad memory and I just proved you just say random crap to make Vader seem stronger than he is.

I have no bias. I not the one going on every thread like you are, and saying ROTJ Vader is weaker than ROTS Sidious when Dark amped Anakin is already greater than ROTS Sidious.

But you are going on every thread saying Vader is stronger... So this argument makes no sense at all. It makes me sense your rationality.

you I've lied saying That I said held Sidious for a minute...

You are right, you actually said two minutes LMAO. So yeah, there really isn't much proof debating you if you just lie about the things you say and then call me a liar when I call you out is there?

You can't shift Burden of proof on me. you are the one who claimed Sidious throw the fight. I am telling you no such thing was ever said in Disney canon so you need to show me the proof of where you got that idea from.

There is no definite proof either way. I have given plenty of evidence on why Palpatine threw the fight before, I'm not going to get into that again.

Until there is proof he didn't throw the fight, using it as an anti feat for him doesn't hold much weight.

Because Anakin was Mentally unbalance and vulnerable.

Yoda doesn't know that, and nothing in the movie even directly states that.

that is nice, now show me him doing that against Dooku, Who Dark side Anakin Stomped.

Anakin didn't stomp him.

I don't see how a Dark side Anakin wouldn't be able to do the same thing since he is more powerful than ROTS Sidious.

He isn't stronger than Sidiouis, and both Yoda and the Emperor acknowledged this.

So...now Dooku is old and weak when Anakin beat him handily and easily.

No, Dooku is old and powerful. But his age is still a hindrance. Anakin was physically superior and he used it to his advantage.

The Same Dooku+Ventress team up had Sidious a few months Before ROTS Scared completely. Dark side Anakin and ROTS Suit Vader are both already more powerful than Dooku ever was in the force even in prime Dooku would get owned by Anakin or Vader.

He was completely scared, he just wanted to get rid of a threat. Dooku + Ventress would beat Anakin anyways.

Base Anakin is already on par with Obi-wan. Dark Side Anakin>>>Obi-wan.

Obi-wan beat dark side Anakin, so no.

you tried to use a force Vision from Yoda to claim Anakin would lose to Sidious. as a Evidence of your findings....SMH

I never said it was proof, but Anakin beat Dooku just like he did in ep 3, and it was a mental attack on Yoda that was supposed to be realistic.

If that is the Case I can use a Vision of Vader where he killed Sidious.

That's a bit different as that's just a personal vision, while Yoda's vision was a result of sith alchemy.

But like I said, I don't think Yoda's vision is proof. I just think with current canon feats that was pretty accurate.

Sidious also casually force choked Dooku. There is no reason he can't catch Anakin off guard with the force and zap him with lightning.

as mace showed you can block sidious force lightning with a light saber easily

It clearly wasn't easy. Look at his face in the gif you posted.

and Rey showed that you can block Sidious force Lightning with a light saber...

Rey was amped by all of the jedi, and it was shown two lightsabers were better than one.

so why wouldn't Vader be able to do that when he far better than Mace and Rey.

All jedi Rey is arguably more powerful than Vader. Mace is weaker than Vader, but Palpatine purposefully stopped shooting force lightning, so Mace didn't actually overpower it.

Vader can definitely block Palpatine's lightning, but he can always get caught off guard mid fight and get his circuits fried.

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AlexTheBoss

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@the_holocrom: right click on the image you want, hit copy image address, and then click the image symbol above where you type, hit url address, and paste it there.