Darth Vader & Count Dooku Vs Luke & Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Rules

  • All are at full power
  • Morals off, bloodlusted (for jedi)
  • No lightning for Dooku
  • Vader in his best suit
  • Perfect Teamwork
  • ROTJ Luke, ROTS Dooku, ROTJ Vader, ROTS Obi-Wan
  • If the battle gets too one sided, either side gets savage as backup
  • Win by ko, incap etc.

Rounds

R1: Force Only

R2: Lightsabers Only

R3: All Out

Battle takes place here: Mustafar

Edited

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MyGod000

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just because i heard this and it cracked me up. Luke and Vader drops their swords, and hug it out then goes on to kill Ben and Dooku as Father and Son.

Realistically Vader is going to be hindered fighting his Son, so Luke is going to have the advantage. I think the Sith team is going to win, since Dooku is still better than ROTS Obi-wan.

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Necromancer76

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Probably the Sith.

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ProfessorRespect

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Dooku's fodderized Kenobi like two times considerably easy, so he could win again tbh, through no lightning is kinda annoying

Luke v Vader is a toss up and can go either way, it really depends on the mentality of the characters, Luke'll hold back as well as Vader to a extent. Could Luke take Dooku? Maybe.

With force powers only Dooku is gonna be pretty well off considering he's stalemated Yoda. No one here has something quite as good as that.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Lol, Dooku solos team 2 and Vader combined.

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Yourmaster

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Vader and Dooku. They could individually defeat either one of the Jedi. While Vader lost to Luke in Return of the Jedi, they make it pretty clear in the movie that he was conflicted throughout their duel and he defeated him, about only a year before.

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MyGod000

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Lord_Tenebrous

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DrunkHC

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Vader vs. Luke was a match determined by emotions and momentary power boosts.

Star wars for which still don't understand is a verse be comics, books or movies where the most powerful don't always wins !!!

Now when creating VS crossover fights you should take the plot factors out of the equation !!!

What is the difficulty of understanding the basics ???

don't get tired of being stupid?

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alextheboss

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#11 alextheboss  Online

Force only the sith team stomp. Dooku has already bullied Kenobi with the force on multiple occasions, Vader is even stronger than Dooku, and neither Luke nor Obi-wan has any counter to force lightning without a lightsaber.

Lightsaber only is pretty close. Vader is probably the best, with Luke arguably the next best due to scaling off of Vader, though Dooku and Kenobi wouldn't be far behind him, and while Luke may be good, it's really due to his overall connection with the force, and Dooku is way more experienced and his skill should be much more refined. For that reason I would give this round to the sith again.

All out also goes to the sith for the same reasons above.

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deactivated-5eadbe7fcf64f

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Yep have to side with the Sith here, overall better fighters and edge it out in the force as well.

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Redshift_Bacon

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#13  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

With Morals Off, Sith take all rounds and Savage aint doing much of anything to help except get choked and ragdolled. Vader can arguably take on any 2 of these fighters simutaniously and come out with the Majority.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

You can't handle the truth!

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Stop it you know nothing. There is your Sith Lord, On his knees praying to Anakin.

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Vader>Anakin.

Dooku's head is in Vader's Trophy case.

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deactivated-5e6c50bd36886

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Obi-Wan can hold Dooku off long enough for a bloodlusted Luke to stomp Vader.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@mygod000:

I wasn't insulting you by the way, I was quoting a movie. And, I know all of the things.

All of the things.  

Anakin beat Dooku with circumstances, like how Luke defeated Vader and Padawan Kenobi defeated Maul. 

Would Dooku struggle against priest Eeth Koth? Against past-prime Maul? Against Ahsoka? Against past-prime Kenobi? Dooku doesn't even struggle against prime Kenobi. 

Dooku smiles at Vader, and chops off his hand. Seniority for the win!

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MyGod000

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#17  Edited By MyGod000

@lord_tenebrous said:

@mygod000:

I wasn't insulting you by the way, I was quoting a movie. And, I know all of the things.

All of the things.

Anakin beat Dooku with circumstances, like how Luke defeated Vader and Padawan Kenobi defeated Maul.

Would Dooku struggle against priest Eeth Koth? Against past-prime Maul? Against Ahsoka? Against past-prime Kenobi? Dooku doesn't even struggle against prime Kenobi.

Dooku smiles at Vader, and chops off his hand. Seniority for the win!

Naw, you good I figured it was something like that. It all good, i already know you have a heart boner for Dooku, so nothing wrong with what you said.

which is why I showd you Anakin chopping Off Dooku head, he can never take out Vader now because he dead ;)

Edit: Eeth Koth is more powerful then most of the Jedi, also Vader didn't even struggle with him he literally ragdolled him, after he said Koth had more power than the Jedi order would ever let him have.

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blackpantherisb

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Luke only beat a conflicted Vader, overall I'd say that they're around equal (with Luke maybe having a very very small advantage). In terms of overall power-level Obi-Wan is at the very least Dooku's equal (maybe slightly superior based on his performance against Knightfall Anakin) but due to a bad form matchup for Obi-Wan Dooku will definitely beat him. That means that Dooku and Vader will tag-team Obi and drop him.

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@blackpantherisb: Luke was just as conflicted as Vader and the op said the Jedi are bloodlusted so Luke should be able to kill Vader before Dooku could take peak Obi-Wan which is arguable since he matched KF Anakin as you said.

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MyGod000

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#20  Edited By MyGod000

@dalootajr said:

@blackpantherisb: Luke was just as conflicted as Vader and the op said the Jedi are bloodlusted so Luke should be able to kill Vader before Dooku could take peak Obi-Wan which is arguable since he matched KF Anakin as you said.

Luke didn't want to fight his father that is true...but the difference that he is trying to tell you is Vader was par with Sidious...Luke no matter how much he was holding back wasn't par or peer with Sidious not even close.

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wholewheat

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sith win because obi is fodder. luke beats dooku 1v1, and can go even with vader, but he can't carry kenobi's heavy ass. Kenobi gets one shot by dooku's push. sabers only it's closer but kenobi still sucks.

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DarthAdi

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Sith probably

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deactivated-5e6c50bd36886

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@mygod000:

Confliction doesn't always equal a hindrance in battle, Obi-Wan was hindered against Anakin on Mustafar but it didn't affect his performance and the ROTJ comic says Vader brought "his full strength and power against the younger man" and that Luke had the edge against Vader even though he wasn't holding back even before his rage amp."The young Jedi has grown in interim and if there is any true advantage, it seems to have shifted to him." ROTJ Luke is => Vader. The comics are supported by the adult novel which if IIRC said Vader was fatigued trying to breach Luke's defences despite him fighting at full capacity. Until the final part of the duel when Vader threatened Leia, according to Lucas (I know u hate his quotes sorry lol), Luke wasn't "really fighting", Luke was able to match Vader while arguably holding back.

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playerx-tr

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Dooku solos

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Luke and Vader negate each other regardless of continuity, in which case Dooku takes Kenobi pretty easily, and then takes Luke. If Obi-Wan fights Vader he's winning because of his superiority/parity in a far weaker form to Vader. Luke can't take Dooku b/c Kenobi scaling + Yoda scaling.

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deactivated-5f88bc0ec7a4f

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Geez didn't realize kenobi was this trash.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

Confliction doesn't always equal a hindrance in battle, Obi-Wan was hindered against Anakin on Mustafar but it didn't affect his performance and the ROTJ comic says Vader brought "his full strength and power against the younger man" and that Luke had the edge against Vader even though he wasn't holding back even before his rage amp."The young Jedi has grown in interim and if there is any true advantage, it seems to have shifted to him." ROTJ Luke is => Vader. The comics are supported by the adult novel which if IIRC said Vader was fatigued trying to breach Luke's defences despite him fighting at full capacity. Until the final part of the duel when Vader threatened Leia, according to Lucas (I know u hate his quotes sorry lol), Luke wasn't "really fighting", Luke was able to match Vader while arguably holding back.

It does equal hindrance in battle...if you are not able to fully commit to something then you are not fully trying. Luke Didn't want to fight his father that is true, Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke if you read the novels Luke was in fact using His aggressive feelings against Vader every time they blade locked.

it's even stated in the movie that Sidious could Sense Luke's Anger swelling up. Luke overwhelmed Vader with an anger and furry he's never seen before, this in the novels as well. Yes, Luke wasn't trying to kill Vader but he most definitely was using his anger to fight Vader and we saw Anakin when he used the dark side for the first time he curb stomped Dooku.

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wholewheat

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#29  Edited By wholewheat

if this were anh or rebels kenobi it would be super even, as i put anh ben around dooku. as it stands, if we add savage it becomes savage + kenobi vs dooku. i think dooku wins 6/10. he can just intermittently lightning savage while dealing with kenobi. however he would lose if he can't deal with savage+kenobi faster than luke wins a coinflip over vader, in which case he gets hard shat on.

also lol@people saying dookie solos. Luke solos dookie 9/10. His skill is worthless in the face of higher physical stats.

PSS: post ROTJ leia also probably beats dooku 7+/10

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MyGod000

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if this were anh or rebels kenobi it would be super even, as i put anh ben around dooku. as it stands, if we add savage it becomes savage + kenobi vs dooku. i think dooku wins 6/10. he can just intermittently lightning savage while dealing with kenobi. however he would lose if he can't deal with savage+kenobi faster than luke wins a coinflip over vader, in which case he gets hard shat on.

also lol@people saying dookie solos. Luke solos dookie 9/10. His skill is worthless in the face of higher physical stats.

PSS: post ROTJ leia also probably beats dooku 7+/10

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You didn't have to say all that, but I do agree with it after her training was done with Luke.

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GodGate

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#31  Edited By GodGate

ROTJ Luke solo wins 10/10 by himself since he's the chosen one, meaning infinite force potential when he needs it in a fight.

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@mygod000:

"Luke Didn't want to fight his father that is true, Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke if you read the novels Luke was, in fact, using His aggressive feelings against Vader every time they blade locked." Vader was trying to kill Luke he just couldn't and Luke will be using those aggressive feelings since the op said Jedi are bloodlusted and morals off Luke should kill Vader in this fight and Obi-Wan can hold off Dooku long enough for Luke to come in and kill Dooku similar to how Anakin did.

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MyGod000

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#33  Edited By MyGod000

@mygod000:

"Luke Didn't want to fight his father that is true, Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke if you read the novels Luke was, in fact, using His aggressive feelings against Vader every time they blade locked." Vader was trying to kill Luke he just couldn't and Luke will be using those aggressive feelings since the op said Jedi are bloodlusted and morals off Luke should kill Vader in this fight and Obi-Wan can hold off Dooku long enough for Luke to come in and kill Dooku similar to how Anakin did.

I never said they weren't Bloodlusted. I said VAder wasn't trying to kill Luke he just wanted to turn him into the Dark side.

Like I Luke has an inherent advantage over VAder just by being his son.

say it a toss up with them, unless Vader is Bloodlust no Plot restricting him then he stomps.

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@mygod000:

"I never said they weren't Bloodlusted. I said VAder wasn't trying to kill Luke he just wanted to turn him into the Dark side." There are sources supporting this and others saying differently I guess Luke vs Vader was full inconsistencies.

"unless Vader is Bloodlust no Plot restricting him then he stomps." Agreed but not as hard as a bloodlust Luke :)

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

"I never said they weren't Bloodlusted. I said VAder wasn't trying to kill Luke he just wanted to turn him into the Dark side." There are sources supporting this and others saying differently I guess Luke vs Vader was full inconsistencies.

"unless Vader is Bloodlust no Plot restricting him then he stomps." Agreed but not as hard as a bloodlust Luke :)

If you think Luke in ROTJ with 3 years of Training is powerful enough that it would require Vaders full power....then Tell me again why are you so much against Me saying Vader surpassed ROTS Sidious in 22 Years when It stated Vader/Anakin's Potential>Luke's Potential?

That the part i don't understand, there are alot of inconsistency

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"If you think Luke in ROTJ with 3 years of Training is powerful enough that it would require Vaders full power....then Tell me again why are you so much against" Luke's Jedi training was incredibly different to Anakin's and Obi-Wan's Jedi training. Jedi in the temple were learning about politics, different species biologies and star-fighting. Luke's training was a lot more hardcore and as you've said in another post-IIRC Luke is as strong as the plot needs him to be which is = Vader by ROTJ. Savage Opress had like a day of training although he was amped by Magicks you could say Luke was amped by the plot lol.

"Me saying Vader surpassed ROTS Sidious in 22 Years when It stated Vader/Anakin's Potential>Luke's Potential?" Luke has arguably the same potential as Anakin and Vader lost a lot of he's power his potential is only 80% of Palpatine. So Anakin => Luke >>>>>>>>> Vader in potential.

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MyGod000

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#37  Edited By MyGod000

@dalootajr said:

"If you think Luke in ROTJ with 3 years of Training is powerful enough that it would require Vaders full power....then Tell me again why are you so much against" Luke's Jedi training was incredibly different to Anakin's and Obi-Wan's Jedi training. Jedi in the temple were learning about politics, different species biologies and star-fighting. Luke's training was a lot more hardcore and as you've said in another post-IIRC Luke is as strong as the plot needs him to be which is = Vader by ROTJ. Savage Opress had like a day of training although he was amped by Magicks you could say Luke was amped by the plot lol.

"Me saying Vader surpassed ROTS Sidious in 22 Years when It stated Vader/Anakin's Potential>Luke's Potential?" Luke has arguably the same potential as Anakin and Vader lost a lot of he's power his potential is only 80% of Palpatine. So Anakin => Luke >>>>>>>>> Vader in potential.

what you fail to understand is Vader never lost his potential in canon. His potential stayed the same. VAder/Anakin>Luke. That is Old canon you are citing how many times must it be reiterated to you before you understand the message you can't mix old canon with Disney canon. It was never said Vader was 80% otherwise show me in Disney canon where that was said.

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@mygod000:

Does it need to be said it's obvious? Anakin was 22 and was closing on Palpatine and Yoda by ROTS. Vader had 25 years to grow and overtake Palpatine but couldn't.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

Does it need to be said it's obvious? Anakin was 22 and was closing on Palpatine and Yoda by ROTS. Vader had 25 years to grow and overtake Palpatine but couldn't.

Taht is headcanon. and you are omitting the fact that Palpatine was also getting more powerful. you can't compare ROTJ Sidious to ROTS Sidious. ROTJ Sidious made it clear that Sidious got much more powerful. in the Disney it stated that the last two Sith are more powerful than the Jedi.

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MyGod000

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#40  Edited By MyGod000
@dalootajr said:

@mygod000:

Does it need to be said it's obvious? Anakin was 22 and was closing on Palpatine and Yoda by ROTS. Vader had 25 years to grow and overtake Palpatine but couldn't.

Vader while pre-prime could already Force slam ROTS Sidious and Tank his lightning. like I said Anakin is already stated to be on ROTS Sidious and Yoda level yet you refuse to acknowledge that Vader surpassed Anakin and it was stated he did as well.

Also, Vader Killed Sidious. like I've been telling It was said Vader got much more powerful after his injuries, if you are trying to use Old canon to debate then you need to concede because Sidious feared Vader in both continuity of the series.

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CyberBlades22

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#41  Edited By CyberBlades22

Team 1 wins all 3 rounds

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@mygod000:

"Taht is headcanon. and you are omitting the fact that Palpatine was also getting more powerful. you can't compare ROTJ Sidious to ROTS Sidious. ROTJ Sidious made it clear that Sidious got much more powerful. in the Disney it stated that the last two Sith are more powerful than the Jedi." Palpatine growing more powerful shouldn't have stopped Vader from surpassing him if he truly retained his potential. Anakin was 50 years younger than Palpatine and grew fast enough to almost reach his level Vader should have killed Palpatine 2-5 years after ROTS if he truly had his potential.

"Vader while pre-prime could already Force slam ROTS Sidious and Tank his lightning." A Vader who was amped by the death of Padme powering him up.

"Also, Vader Killed Sidious." Anakin killed him and it was because of his prophecy he just got his ass stomped by Luke he would have died if the Chosen One prophecy didn't play a part in it.

"Sidious feared Vader in both continuity of the series." Palpatine was also scared of force-sensitive children he was always superstitious.

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MyGod000

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#43  Edited By MyGod000

@dalootajr said:

@mygod000:

"Taht is headcanon. and you are omitting the fact that Palpatine was also getting more powerful. you can't compare ROTJ Sidious to ROTS Sidious. ROTJ Sidious made it clear that Sidious got much more powerful. in the Disney it stated that the last two Sith are more powerful than the Jedi." Palpatine growing more powerful shouldn't have stopped Vader from surpassing him if he truly retained his potential. Anakin was 50 years younger than Palpatine and grew fast enough to almost reach his level Vader should have killed Palpatine 2-5 years after ROTS if he truly had his potential.

"Vader while pre-prime could already Force slam ROTS Sidious and Tank his lightning." A Vader who was amped by the death of Padme powering him up.

"Also, Vader Killed Sidious." Anakin killed him and it was because of his prophecy he just got his ass stomped by Luke he would have died if the Chosen One prophecy didn't play a part in it.

"Sidious feared Vader in both continuity of the series." Palpatine was also scared of force-sensitive children he was always superstitious.

It doesn't matter that Vader was Amp by Padme death. Because Vader 5 years later Surpassed Anakin. Anakin is =>ROTS Sidious=>Yoda.

The is a False equivalency Fallacy. He was scared that the force Sensitive children would form a new set of Jedi rendering all his plans fail, While Sidious Feared Vader's immediate power.

He also feared Dooku+ Ventress teaming up to over throw him, while he saw Vader as a bigger threat then Dooku+Ventress ever was.

Again, My point that you are just ignoring VAder>>ROTS Sidious.

you do realize the Novels stated Vader when he killed Palpatine was at his weakest ever? he wasn't even at full power when he did and still killed him, as I just established to you Vader>Anakin.

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MyGod000

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@dalootajr:

Let looks at the proof then shall we?

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Vader weaker than he's ever been. grabbed ROTJ Palpatine, who struggled in his grip.

Palpatine with the force couldn't even break free from a Vader at his weakest, I was telling you and some other members to Show me a Strength feat from Palpatine that put him above Vader and you couldn't. Vader can rip off steel doors casually, so Palpatine isn't overpowering Vader. Vader already has nearly as much power in the force as ROTJ Sidious who is much more powerful than ROTS Sidious.

like I said he already had the power to kill Palpatine, and Snoke Recognizes Vader as the strongest and most powerful Sith.

Luke needed to use the dark side beat Vader, as I've proved If Vader truly wanted to kill Luke with all of his being and just fully commit to the dark side he would have easily stomped Luke Since Vader is ROTJ Sidious Level. the fact that ROTJ Sidious was able to completely destroy Vaders Suit with force lightning even after he upgraded it to be much more resistant to Force lightning proves that ROTJ Sidious Force lightning>>>>ROTS Sidious Force lightning.

Vader tanked ROTS Sidious Force lightning with barely any damage, the same lightning knocked out Yoda and sent him flying.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#45  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@mygod000:

Vader was weak before, but he became massively amped and wasn't Vader anymore, he was Anakin when he picked up Sidious. And it still killed him. Vader didn't "tank" Sidious' lightning any more than Mace did. Tanking lightning is what Yoda did in the TCW vision.

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@mygod000:

Vader being supposed> ROTS Palpatine is irrelevant to the discussion. According to you, Vader has more potential than Luke and Palpatine who the latter he never surpassed and the former with 3 years of training surpassed him.

"Vader weaker than he's ever been. grabbed ROTJ Palpatine, who struggled in his grip.

Palpatine with the force couldn't even break free from a Vader at his weakest, I was telling you and some other members to Show me a Strength feat from Palpatine that put him above Vader and you couldn't" If you think the Chosen One prophecy didn't play a part in Anakin killing Palpatine than I give up like seriously it's common sense.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

Vader being supposed> ROTS Palpatine is irrelevant to the discussion. According to you, Vader has more potential than Luke and Palpatine who the latter he never surpassed and the former with 3 years of training surpassed him.

"Vader weaker than he's ever been. grabbed ROTJ Palpatine, who struggled in his grip.

Palpatine with the force couldn't even break free from a Vader at his weakest, I was telling you and some other members to Show me a Strength feat from Palpatine that put him above Vader and you couldn't" If you think the Chosen One prophecy didn't play a part in Anakin killing Palpatine than I give up like seriously it's common sense.

You were just arguing he doesn't have the chosen one power up anymore since you said he lost all his potential. I am telling you he didn't. it should be common sense if nothing is ever stated then you can't assume he lost something that was never stated.

Vader is stated to have the highest potential in the series of Star wars, Snoke supports this with his comments so end the end it doesn't matter waht you think, because star supports the idea that VAder's Potential>>>Palpatine.

i already explained to you when he got injured he got weakened from where he as at as Anakin=>ROTS Sidious. it took me 5 years to finally catch back up to being more powerful than ROTS Sidious.

what do you think Sidious is doing in that time? Getting stronger, it's not about surpassing ROTJ Sidious, it about ROTS Sidious since that was the Sidious Anakin was compared to and yes, as I told you 100s of time he surpassed ROTS Sidious.

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@mygod000:

"because star supports the idea that VAder's Potential>>>Palpatine." Then why didn't he overthrow him??

"what do you think Sidious is doing in that time? Getting stronger" That doesn't change anything Vader should be growing at a higher rate than Palpatine, Anakin was 23 and almost = to Palpatine.

As I've said before Vader being > ROTS Palpatine is irrelevant I'm not arguing for that or against it you said Vader kept his potential which just isn't true and makes no sense, I agree that Vader surpassed Anakin in canon but he didn't have the same potential anymore.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

"because star supports the idea that VAder's Potential>>>Palpatine." Then why didn't he overthrow him??

"what do you think Sidious is doing in that time? Getting stronger" That doesn't change anything Vader should be growing at a higher rate than Palpatine, Anakin was 23 and almost = to Palpatine.

As I've said before Vader being > ROTS Palpatine is irrelevant I'm not arguing for that or against it you said Vader kept his potential which just isn't true and makes no sense, I agree that Vader surpassed Anakin in canon but he didn't have the same potential anymore.

my dude...How many times do I have to explain this to you? It literally stated the only Reason Vader didn't kill Sidious sooner is because Palpatine was all Vader had left in life and he was a father figure. Vader actually went out to openly Challenge Sidious when He thought Sidious put out a Hit on him. Is in no Rush to fight Vader because their is a good Chance he will lose if he did. even when Sidious had 2 other apprentice he trained for 20+ Years to replace Vader, they out right said the can't beat Vader even after 20+ years of Sidious training them for that specific reason.

It's called plot. Palpatine like I said was consuming knowledge from the Jedi and Sith Holocrons that over 1000+ years of knowledge+ Windows into the Ancient History of the Force, which I kept telling you made ROTS Sidious much more powerful.

No Caption Provided

Just Talent and Potential Alone isn't going be enough to surpass someone who is studying all aspects of the force to gain Knowledge. You act like you need to be spoon feed here and it couldn't be made more simpler.

What doesn't make Sense here is when you called me out for what you said was "Headcanon", because I was giving out my thoughts about what is generally accepted by the Star wars community on how much more powerful ROTJ Sidious was to ROTS Sidious. You said Since I have no evidence or proof he got that much stronger it Headcanon.

Now, you are here doing the same thing you accused me of doing. You have no proof that Vader lost his potential, no canon statements have come out and said Vader lost potential. Yet you are saying he lost potential and using headcanon. It doesn't matter if it make sense or not, the fact is he never lost his potential and has always had the power to kill Sidious. practice what you preach.

I asked you to show me a statement in canon that says Vader lost potential and i'll concede my point about him not losing potential...So far you are just using headcanon on what you think...which isn't evidence but your opinion. so Your concession is accepted.

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@mygod000:

"It literally stated the only Reason Vader didn't kill Sidious sooner is because Palpatine was all Vader had left in life and he was a father figure." Show me the statement then I'll concede but this panel says otherwise Vader didn't care for father figures anymore

No Caption Provided

"ROTJ Sidious was to ROTS Sidious. You said Since I have no evidence or proof he got that much stronger it Headcanon." Yes, I know Palpatine grew in power but Vader should be growing at a faster rate with a lot more efficiency.

"Palpatine like I said was consuming knowledge from the Jedi and Sith Holocrons that over 1000+ years of knowledge+ Windows into the Ancient History of the Force" He was most likely doing that before even ROTS yet Anakin caught up to him.

"What doesn't make Sense here is when you called me out for what you said was "Headcanon" Not once have I accused of headcanon your the one doing it now even though your arguments are illogical.

"Now, you are here doing the same thing you accused me of doing. You have no proof that Vader lost his potential, no canon statements have come out and said Vader lost potential." There are tons of George Lucas quotes that still hold relevance but you'll get mad if I post them so I haven't.

"It doesn't matter if it make sense or not, the fact is he never lost his potential and has always had the power to kill Sidious." Show me a statement that his potential was never lost please so we can stop this.

This discussion is clearly going nowhere since we both aren't willing to endorse one another's views, I leave by saying this Luke > Vader in potential.