Fight starts where the Brothers first engage Kenobi and Gallia. CAN NOT FALL BACK INTO THE TUNNELS.
Round 2
Florrum.
Dooku is smart enough to lure the brothers into the tunnel system, like Kenobi, to destroy the possibility that they combine their might and both press him frontally.
No one is allowed to run away from the engagement.
Dooku gets two sabers like Kenobi did.
Savage flanks him, like he did to Kenobi so he doesn’t get in Mauls way.
U can pick a team of 2 members here, and then basically there are 8 teams are you will debate for 3 rounds to decide the champion
Both rounds for the team? Or only round 1?
The bothers will still cooperate, so I actually doubt it's going to be a major advantage for Dooku. I think it all depends on if Dooku can dispatch Savage off the bad with force lightning. If so, then he can beat Maul. If not, then the team wins
Dooku wins. Medium difficulty maybe if you highball Maul
Savage is not making any difference here unless he's in brainwash mode. Trying to isolate the single instance of Savage landing one inconclusive hit and saying that means he wins is ignorant and ignoring Savages later inconsistencies. Despite apparently "growing stronger", Savage fails to replicate this feat with Kenobi, despite him being mentally hindered at the time, he failed to replicate this again on Florrum with either Adi or Kenobi, he failed to replicate this with Plo Koon, he failed to replicate this against Ventress, despite coming down from 7 feet above with all his weight in a full hammer blow. This is the same Ventress that Dooku can casually manhandle handle with strength. And as far the "bare" edge goes
Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress wage a combined attack against Dooku, whose abilities with the Force far surpass those of his apprentices.
Not really. Dooku far surpasses their combined powers. But let's be kind and say the two contradictory sources cancel each other out, we look at the source material itself.
Dooku easily dodges both Savage and Ventress' attacks, even when deprived of his lightsaber. The one fluke hit Savage lands is instantly negated by the Counts powers, he dodged the rest and it's made abundantly clear that the duo were on the verge of losing before Savage snapped.
At no point was Dooku "barely" doing anything. He had a timely and effective answer for everything they had even saberless, the only blow landed was Opress' one hit which he has never replicated even against weaker opponents after supposedly growing stronger. So that leaves us with
1. Savage could only perform this ability whilst in a Nightsister trance or the massive Dark Rage amp caused by breaking said trance, where he possessed singular focus and control.
2. Savage can perform this again. But simply never does. In which case it's about as useful as bringing up Koon's electric judgement or Maul knowing lightning. It's pointless if it's clear in character they will never use it.
Once again, Dooku wins. He could, not once, but twice gain breathing room against Obi-Wan and Anakin via physical strikes and force attack.
Maul's juyo leaves him vulnerable to counters the Count is more than happy to provide. Likewise if even Plo Koon can evade one of Savage's attacks and land a saber strike, Oppress is losing a limb here almost instantly.
I mean hell, Kenobi was able to push the brothers back for a time in order to get an opening for escape and a weapon retrieval.
And likewise despite being stuck in a confined space between the two brothers was able evade all of their coordinated attacks while hitting Savage with impunity.
Dooku is more than capable of pulling that off.
So no. Savage is not making any difference here. And Maul just loses.
Dooku is defeated by Season 3 Savage Opress in a lightsaber duel. - OFFICIAL SOURCES CONFIRMS;
''True or False? Dooku cannot be bested in a lightsaber duel.
False: Opress disarms him but is bested by Force lightning.''
Source: The Clone Wars: What is a Sith Warrior? (2012)
Source: The Clone Wars Season 3 Episode 14 (2011)
Maul on the other hand, easily deals with a more powerful Season 5 Savage Opress in a duel.
Source: The Clone Wars Season 5 Episode 01 (2012)
Season 5 Savage > Season 3 Savage that beat Dooku.
And Savage Opress is a threat to Count Dooku. Dooku admits this.
Dooku: ''I can sense him Grievous. That creature Savage Opress is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes.''
Grievous: ''You consider him a threat?''
Dooku: ''He is a threat to all of us...''
Source: The Clone Wars Season 4 Episode 21 (2012)
Maul is more powerful than Savage;
''No love lost: They might have been fellow Nightbrothers, but it was Darth Maul who was very definitely in charge. Savage Opress accepted his role as apprentice to the more powerful Maul, at least for a time.''
Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File Remake #044 (2014)
Season 5 Savage is far stronger than Season 3, Dooku fans are desperate as usual.
Dooku is smart enough to lure the brothers into the tunnel system, like Kenobi, to destroy the possibility that they combine their might and both press him frontally.
Dooku is not smart to do this because he has never used Sokan before. This again proves that you are a Dooku fan.
Maul used Sokan before,
"That's it. Come to me.[…]You think you're driving me back. You have no idea that I'm in control. You don't know where I'm taking you."
- Wrath of Darth Maul
Dooku never did, if anyone can use a territorial advantage, it's Maul, as I said you must be definitely a Dooku fan in disguise, evidences are clear.
Obi-Wan can use it, because he also used it against Anakin at Mustafar, Dooku never did.
Not even mention Dooku fans always uses ABC logic like you do, but when it comes to Dooku getting stomped by Anakin, then Anakin loses to Obi-Wan, they forget about this ABC Logic, their ABC Logic gives error.
Amped TCW S5 Obi-Wan using the environment to defeat Savage then still gets KOed by Maul is the same thing as Obi-Wan wins against Anakin at mustafar.
I don't see Dooku fans claiming Dooku would defeat Anakin at Mustafar, just because Obi-Wan did it. Dooku's and Obi-Wan's styles are very different. Dooku has weakness against power and kinetic attacks, Obi-Wan doesn't have.
Dooku can't defend himself against Savage's or Maul's strikes, see how he ended up against weaker Savage's strike in Season 3, (Savage is stronger in Season 5)
@erkan12: While I am not partaking in this debate, you just showed that you are desperate to label people as a Dooku fanboys.
I put the Sokan thing in because it makes it easier for Dooku, to give him a chance. It doesn’t mean Dooku could do this, but in this scenario he gets the chance.
Also: Kenobi wasn’t amped as explained in my blog. Don’t turn into another Kenobi vs Maul. This is Dooku vs Maul and Savage.
@erkan12: While I am not partaking in this debate, you just showed that you are desperate to label people as a Dooku fanboys.
I put the Sokan thing in because it makes it easier for Dooku, to give him a a chance. It doesn’t mean Dooku could do this, but in this scenario he gets the chance.
If you are not a Dooku fan, then why you believe Dooku will use Sokan against Maul, when he never ever use it before? That didn't make sense.
You claim that ''Dooku is smart enough to lure Brothers'' LOL, in what world he has done this before? He never did. This is why and it's easy to see.
While between Dooku and Maul, only Maul used Sokan before.
If anything, Maul should lure Dooku, because he has done this before, and stomp him.
Why you want to ''give Dooku a chance'' here when its obvious that he can't win and it's a mismatch why are you forcing this idea that Dooku should solo them in 2 v 1? You admit that you are biased.
Also: Kenobi wasn’t amped as explained in my blog. Don’t turn into another Kenobi vs Dooku. This is Dooku vs Maul and Savage.
If a person's death gives him extra focus, yes it's amplification. Adi Gallia's death triggered Kenobi's superior focus, and there is no reason that Kenobi shouldn't be fully focused before fighting Maul, only through Adi Gallia's death he reaches that even superior focus level, which is amplification. Kenobi can't bring people every single time he fights Maul and needs to see their death to reach that higher level of focus to fight Maul equally (still ended up getting KOed though), LOL.
Your blog has been debunked by me and @hellothere5432 easily.
Filoni even said there was a ''provocation'', and he specifically says ''Kenobi isn't going to lose in that situation'', that situation is special, which means Kenobi was amped due to Adi Gallia's death.
“Why you want to ''give Dooku a chance'' here when its obvious that he can't win and it's a mismatch why are you forcing this idea that Dooku should solo them in 2 v 1? You admit that you are biased.”
Because some people like yourself think that Maul is much better, some think that Dooku is stronger and easily owns Maul and Savage. You deal in absolutes, Erkan.
“If a person's death gives him extra focus, yes it's amplification. Adi Gallia's death triggered Kenobi's superior focus, and there is no reason that Kenobi shouldn't be fully focused before fighting Maul, only through Adi Gallia's death he reaches that even superior focus level, which is amplification. Kenobi can't bring people every single time he fights Maul and needs to see their death to reach that higher level of focus to fight Maul equally (still ended up getting KOed though), LOL.“
Focus does not mean he is better in saber fighting. Especially since Filoni linked his victory to his saber skill. And in ROTS Kenobi can use empty meditation at will. He was probably mastering it in the clone wars. Kenobi getting knocked out means nothing since he was well enough to chase the running maul out of the tunnels.
“Not only that when adi gallia dies, he gains even more focus and has to kind of right that wrong. He is a very skilled swordsman, so he’s not going to loose that fight in that situation, so it’s really maul and savage who kind of overextended.”
Kenobis skill doesn’t magically increase.
“character strength can overcome strength in numbers”
-fortune cookie if revival
“What I really took away from the screening last night was that when obi wan rises up with his two lightsabers and defeats maul and opress the while theatre went nuts”
That versions of Maul and Savage were defeated by Obi-wan.
Why are you using Amped TCW S5 Obi-Wan, when Dooku himself fought Savage? LOL.
Not even mention, Kenobi got stomped by this duo before, Ventress barely saved Kenobi's life, Kenobi got KOed in the end when he was even amped and lost Adi Gallia.
That's how Dooku fans are;
- Dooku fought Savage
- Obi-Wan fought Savage too
-Dooku fans: ''lets use Obi-Wan as an example for fighting Savage instead of Dooku fighting Savage.''
Dooku was defeated by weaker Season 3 Savage,
''True or False? Dooku cannot be bested in a lightsaber duel.
False: Opress disarms him but is bested by Force lightning.''
Source: The Clone Wars: What is a Sith Warrior? (2012)
Source: The Clone Wars Season 3 Episode 14 (2011)
And Maul KOed amped Kenobi, after killing Adi Gallia. Maul was superior to even super amped TCW S5 Kenobi.
“Why you want to ''give Dooku a chance'' here when its obvious that he can't win and it's a mismatch why are you forcing this idea that Dooku should solo them in 2 v 1? You admit that you are biased.”
Because some people like yourself think that Maul is much better, some think that Dooku is stronger and easily owns Maul and Savage. You deal in absolutes, Erkan.
Lol, that's not an answer to my question, you deny that you are a Dooku fan, then you admitted that you want to ''give a chance'' to Dooku against Maul and Savage.
How you want to give chance?
By giving an ability to Dooku that Dooku never used before; Sokan.
Maul used Sokan before, not Dooku. If anything Maul lures Dooku to another place, not Dooku.
That's how I proved you are being a Dooku fan.
This is like I am saying that Maul will use Makashi to win, when he never did.
This is exactly you being biased; you say Dooku will use Sokan to win, when he never did, LOL.
“If a person's death gives him extra focus, yes it's amplification. Adi Gallia's death triggered Kenobi's superior focus, and there is no reason that Kenobi shouldn't be fully focused before fighting Maul, only through Adi Gallia's death he reaches that even superior focus level, which is amplification. Kenobi can't bring people every single time he fights Maul and needs to see their death to reach that higher level of focus to fight Maul equally (still ended up getting KOed though), LOL.“
Focus does not mean he is better in saber fighting. Especially since Filoni linked his victory to his saber skill. And in ROTS Kenobi can use empty meditation at will. He was probably mastering it in the clone wars. Kenobi getting knocked out means nothing since he was well enough to chase the running maul out of the tunnels.
Filoni literally says ''in that situation'', that situation is special, if you aren't a hater or a biased person, you would clearly see this that Filoni is talking about a special situation where Kenobi reached with Adi Gallia's death, not because he decided, Adi Gallia dying was the trigger.
Kenobi getting KOed means Maul is superior to even Amped TCW S5 Kenobi, which Dooku never even fought.
Maul only retreated because Savage was injured, and Pirates (same Pirates captured Dooku before) try to capture Maul, but they failed to capture Maul, when they captured Dooku before.
Kenobi didn't chase Maul at all, LOL. Maul needed to retreat because of Savage's injury and Pirates attacking him.
“Not only that when adi gallia dies, he gains even more focus and has to kind of right that wrong. He is a very skilled swordsman, so he’s not going to loose that fight in that situation, so it’s really maul and savage who kind of overextended.”
Kenobis skill doesn’t magically increase.
“character strength can overcome strength in numbers”
-fortune cookie of revival
Being a hero is Kenobis character. He is courageous and focused. In his normal metal state he overcame maul. Not with some magical amp.
“What I really took away from the screening last night was that when obi wan rises up with his two lightsabers and defeats maul and opress the while theatre went nuts”
-Dave Filoni
He defeats Maul and Savage, Erkan.
It's amazing that how biased you must be to read that quote and still say he is not amped, LOL.
''in that situation'' , ''when adi gallia dies he gains even more focus''
Situation / Adi Gallia's death are the trigger for Kenobi to deal with that, otherwise he couldn't as he even escaped to the tunnels, he couldn't do it with Amplification alone, he also needed territorial advantage.
Amplification + territorial advantage, only cuts Savage's arm and gets KOed in the end.
Defeat in a sense that Maul failed to capture Kenobi due to Savage's injury and Pirates turning against him. Kenobi never proved he is even equal to Maul in combat. He needed to be amped and use a special territory to defeat Savage.
Maul KOed Kenobi in 1 v 1 at the end for a reason.
Imagine Maul KOs Sidious, LOL, since you gave example from Sidious, you should use it here. And see how biased and hater you are to say Kenobi is even close to Maul.
“Filoni literally says ''in that situation'', that situation is special, if you aren't a hater or a biased person, you would clearly see this that Filoni is talking about a special situation where Kenobi reached with Adi Gallia's death, not because he decided, Adi Gallia dying was the trigger.”
That situation is referring to a stable Kenobi. Shortly before this he talked about hindered Kenobi having to run from maul and savage because of his MENTAL hinderance. Stable Kenobi>Maul. In ROTS Kenobi can “amp” himself at any given moment. I debunked you, Erkan.
“Defeat in a sense that Maul failed to capture Kenobi due to Savage's injury and Pirates turning against him. Kenobi never proved he is even equal to Maul in combat. He needed to be amped and use a special territory to defeat Savage.”
No, they overextended against Kenobi. They reached their limit in skill. They run from Kenobi.
Maul DID NOT KNOW that the pirates turned against him.
“Chirrot ready the men, we are leaving.” - Maul
“My men aren’t going anywhere with you, look at them how powerful can they be, they are RUNNING AWAY FROM KENOBI.”
Stop twisting reality, Erkan.
“Kenobi never proved he is even equal to Maul in combat.“
He did when he beat Maul twice in season 4 while massively hindered.
He did when he easily dismissed maul on Florum when he tried to safe Gallia.
He did when he took on maul and savage in a 2v1 and out skilled maul and cut off savages arm.
Savage as of season 5 equal or better to season 4 maul. Kenobi still won, chasing the brothers who were running, Erkan.
“ territorial advantage”
He made that advantage, maul failed to get him out of there and than refused to 1v1 when savage was safe, he ran from the 1v1.
“Maul KOed Kenobi in 1 v 1 at the end for a reason.”
Because he needed to run. Afraid of the 1v1, Erkan. Maul and savage were defeated at that point.
“What I really took away from the screening last night was that when obi wan rises up with his two lightsabers and defeats maul and opress the while theatre went nuts”
-Dave Filoni
“And see how biased and hater you are to say Kenobi is even close to Maul.”
And see how biased and hater you are to say Maul is even close to Kenobi, see:)
Lol at the above arguments. Erkan's headcanon suited to lowball Dooku to sub Savage level is easily refuted as per usual. Season 5 Savage coming even close to beating Dooku is extremely far fetched, so the notion that Season 3 Savage is going to stomp Dooku is utterly laughable.
OT: Team wins in a tough fight, Maul gives him a pretty good fight alone and Savage seals the deal.
Reasons as to why a combatant who faced yoda and managed to escape, faced Kenobi and Anakin multiple times and survived/ held his own, faced Windu and held his own, defeated a squad of night sisters and Ventress while blinded, beat vos, beat grievous, beat savage, held his owns against Ventress and savage gets “slaughtered”???
“Filoni literally says ''in that situation'', that situation is special, if you aren't a hater or a biased person, you would clearly see this that Filoni is talking about a special situation where Kenobi reached with Adi Gallia's death, not because he decided, Adi Gallia dying was the trigger.”
That situation is referring to a stable Kenobi. Shortly before this he talked about hindered Kenobi having to run from maul and savage because of his MENTAL hinderance. Stable Kenobi>Maul. In ROTS Kenobi can “amp” himself at any given moment. I debunked you, Erkan.
Lmao, Filoni never talk about Kenobi is being unstable on Florrum, you lie as usual.
Filoni literally says Kenobi is much more focused and ready, when Adi Gallia dies he gets even more focus, if you want to keep lying you only debunk yourself with these pathetic lies.
“Defeat in a sense that Maul failed to capture Kenobi due to Savage's injury and Pirates turning against him. Kenobi never proved he is even equal to Maul in combat. He needed to be amped and use a special territory to defeat Savage.”
No, they overextended against Kenobi. They reached their limit in skill. They run from Kenobi.
Kenobi is the one who run from them first, so he can use the territory against them, that's how he managed to cut Savage's arm, with territory, not only with amplification.
Amplification wasn't even enough for him to do it, you can cry all you want.
If Kenobi's skill was enough, Maul wouldn't stop him with ease in 1 v 1.
Source: The Clone Wars - Season 5 Episode 01 (2012)
Maul DID NOT KNOW that the pirates turned against him.
“Chirrot ready the men, we are leaving.” - Maul
“My men aren’t going anywhere with you, look at them how powerful can they be, they are RUNNING AWAY FROM KENOBI.”
Stop twisting reality, Erkan.
Yes, because Savage was injured, Maul wouldn't run from Kenobi alone if he had his Pirates gang, all Pirates attacked him alongside with Kenobi, you are the one twisting it.
Maul literally says ''this plan has failed'', what plan?
Their plan was to capture Kenobi alive, they couldn't capture him, and their plan has failed, he didn't even want to kill Kenobi as he said that while killing Satine.
“What I really took away from the screening last night was that when obi wan rises up with his two lightsabers and defeats maul and opress the while theatre went nuts”
-Dave Filoni
“And see how biased and hater you are to say Kenobi is even close to Maul.”
And see how biased and hater you are to say Maul is even close to Kenobi, see:)
It’s fine though. Thanks for the input.
Oh you don't listen Filoni when he says Kenobi is amped due to Adi Gallia dying, and they were going to lose in TCW S4 duel when Ventress saving him?
Maul was clearly superior to Amped TCW S5 Kenobi, between the two of them; Kenobi got KOed, Kenobi never KOed Maul in that duel, or even touch him with his sabers.
He only defeated Savage with amplification and territory, then he get KOed in the end, let Maul destroy his spaceship even LOL.
“Lmao, Filoni never talk about Kenobi is being unstable on Florrum, you lie as usual.”
He talked about season 4 Kenobi. In the situation where Kenobi is mentally unstable he has to run. When he is not, he beats maul and opress.
“Kenobi admitted both Ventress and him are outmatched against Maul.”
When he was mentally hindered. Prior to dun much hindered Kenobi wrecked Maul and beat him 2 times. Maul admitted he couldn’t beat Kenobi with out dun much ins Star Wars the clone wars: stores of the light and dark. Nice try Erkan.
Kenobi also says that he is a match for savage and maul. Must be a fact since you trust kenobi so much. Ridiculous.
Their plan was to capture Kenobi alive, they couldn't capture him, and their plan has failed, he didn't even want to kill Kenobi as he said that while killing Satine.
“Maul made TCW S5 Kenobi run, and blasted Amped TCW S5 Kenobi later”
Kenobi repositioned in a 2v1. Maul ran from a 1v1. Get ur facts straight.
“I guess you can't comprehend this simple thing; Savage was injured and Maul needed to save his apprentice, unlike Kenobi could save Adi Gallia.“
Savage was safe the moment the tunnel collapsed. If maul was good enough he would have tracked kenobi down and killed him.
“What I really took away from the screening last night was that when obi wan rises up with his two lightsabers and defeats maul and opress the while theatre went nuts”
-Dave Filoni
“By letting Adi Gallia die and failing to kill Savage he made that advantage? LOL, you should cry less.”
Because adi gallia died he created an environment which didn’t give the brothers the advantages of outnumbering an opponent 2v1 usually does. Still it was a 2v1 and maul lost.
“Oh you don't listen Filoni when he says Kenobi is amped due to Adi Gallia dying“
Kenobis saber skill defeated maul and savage. Not some kind of amp.
“He is a very skilled swordsman, so he’s not going to loose that fight.”
“Kenobi admitted both Ventress and him are outmatched against Maul.”
When he was mentally hindered. Prior to dun much hindered Kenobi wrecked Maul and beat him 2 times. Maul admitted he couldn’t beat Kenobi with out dun much ins Star Wars the clone wars: stores of the light and dark. Nice try Erkan.
Kenobi also says that he is a match for savage and maul. Must be a fact since you trust kenobi so much. Ridiculous.
Their plan was to capture Kenobi alive, they couldn't capture him, and their plan has failed, he didn't even want to kill Kenobi as he said that while killing Satine.
Maul was much more hindered than Kenobi in TCW S4, so this is not an excuse;
Losing legs, getting use to new legs, not fighting for 10 years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obi-Wan's hindrance
Not even close.
Maul still beat Kenobi despite that huge disadvantages.
Even Filoni mentioned that Maul did pretty good despite having those disadvantages in that fight.
“What I really took away from the screening last night was that when obi wan rises up with his two lightsabers and defeats maul and opress the while theatre went nuts”
-Dave Filoni
“By letting Adi Gallia die and failing to kill Savage he made that advantage? LOL, you should cry less.”
Because adi gallia died he created an environment which didn’t give the brothers the advantages of outnumbering an opponent 2v1 usually does. Still it was a 2v1 and maul lost.
If he did then Adi Gallia would be alive and Savage would be dead in that fight. Opposite thing happened, cry more.
I don't know where Filoni said that, but seeing this made me believe Maul >>>>>>>>>>> Kenobi so much that when Kenobi never touched or KOed Maul, and instead Kenobi got KOed, he sees this as a victory for Kenobi ,because that's how inferior Kenobi is to Maul, too much difference.
“Oh you don't listen Filoni when he says Kenobi is amped due to Adi Gallia dying“
Kenobis saber skill defeated maul and savage. Not some kind of amp.
“He is a very skilled swordsman, so he’s not going to loose that fight.”
Amped Kenobi never even touched Maul with his saber or never KOed Maul in that fight, Maul KOed Kenobi, no amount of headcanon fanboy nonsense can change that fact, watch that episode again and again, actually since you are biased enough to deny what Filoni says about Kenobi being amped after Adi Gallia's death, then you shouldn't be using any statement from this guy, since you really can't read.
@hellothere5432: 3 inquisitors=holding back yoda? He didn’t even stomp them. He fought them u too back up arrived.
“Maul stomped Savage.”
Outlast for savage. Maul also had a knowledge advantage on the saber staff. Savages feats>Maul in TCW.
“against Mace and Aayla in SOD”
He got bailed out by mandos. Ayala is fodder in canon. Anakin and Obi Wan are both much impressive than Aayla. Mace is better than both Kenobi and ani at this point but not by that much.
Anakin and Kenobi>Ayla and mace as a duo.
“Also, Obi Wan used Ataru against Dooku till ROTS per the ROTS Novel and Obi Wan is far worse with Ataru so these feat's are heavily overblown.”
He did not. He used suresu and effortlessly stone walled dookus offense. Although Utapau Kenobi>IH Kenobi where he fully embraced Soresu.
I know of the book which says Kenobi used ataru, however this is contradicted by the novel.
Kenobis ataru was enough to overmatch mauls form 7.
“Lost to him in DD.“
And won
“A vastly pre-prime Yoda“
Dooku still managed to hold out before he made an escape.
At the height of Savage Opress' portrayal, he could not lay a finger on someone so agile and skillful as Darth Tyranus -- nor could Asajj Ventress, for that matter. Darth Maul, though past his prime, should be pretty much equal to Ventress, but therein lies the issue -- Ventress and Opress were no match for Count Dooku.
Give Maul a far less formidable opponent -- season 5 Savage -- and the fight becomes all the more one-sided. As it happens, the two brothers found themselves decisively outmatched against Obi-Wan Kenobi. As at ease as Dooku appeared against Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker, this will be even less of a challenge. With a combined assault, they can loosely contend for a time, but the outcome will never be in question. Darth Tyranus handily defeats his predecessor and former pupil.
“Was comparing it to the Dooku vs Nightsister's feat. And Maul was casually kicking them around at every turn.”
Not one of the inquisitors is as powerful as Ventress and maul wasn’t drugged.
“Based on nothing. Maul far outperformed Savage against Obi Wan on Florrum and against Sidious on Mandalore. As well as a wealth of other sources affirming Maul's far superiority to Savage.”
Maul didn’t do jack. Savage has a much better track record against Kenobi. He 1v2s him and Anakin two times, he fights evenly with Ventress just like maul.
Maul also had a height advantage, something savage never encountered in an opponent before.
Maul<Savage is not even debatable.
Kenobi focused savage on Florrum, Maul was lucky as Kenobi showed he could to the same thing to him if he wanted.
Base maul didn’t do jack to Sidious either, it was savage who landed the hit without rage.
"easily beaten," Grievous in saber's far”
Never happened. Literally never happened.
He used the force. They duelled evenly before Maul used THE FORCE. S.2 Kenobi can do that. SOD Maul is a peer of Grievous while ROTS Kenobi is far beyond him.
S.5 Maul<S.5 Kenobi
S.5 Kenobi>=S.5 Grievous
SOD Grievous=SOD MAUL
ROTS Kenobi>Grievous
ROTS Kenobi>SOD Maul
“ It's clear in S6, Kenobi was using Ataru, hence all the acrobatics. Which Kenobi is not only garbage with, compared to Soresu, but Dooku also has a knowledge advantege per training Qui Gon, per the ROTS Novel. The same Novel which also says Kenobi only started using Soresu against Dooku on the IH, meaning he was using Ataru beforehand.”.
That’s what I said.
“Baseless and flat out wrong.“
Irrelevant opinion, not backed up bay feats. Watch the episode:
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74
Maul is forced into a defensive position by
Kenobis ataru and Jar’Kai “Which Kenobi is not only garbage with, compared to Soresu”.
So yeah. Kenobi landed kick on maul, he overmatched mauls form 7 and easily dogged his and savages blows.
“Yeah but it's not as impressive as you think because Yoda was pre-prime. It would be like me saying Maul nearly beating Sidious on Hypori means he's ROTS Sidious level.”
So AOTC yode is Dooku level but ROTS is Sidious level. Uhm ok. Yoda was holding back but it is still more impressive than mauls performance.
“ Baseless and flat out wrong:”
Maul was never going to touch him. Sidious one shorted maul and savage and toyed with them. I already posted that earlier so I won’t pull out the screens.
This thread is already a mess I see, also comparing Savage's fight against TCW Dooku isn't applicable if we're using Legends EU Dooku. EU C-Canon Dooku isn't the same as TCW Dooku, that version benefits from practically everything that TCW doesn't have.
EU Dooku is gonna wipe the floor with the Brothers if we just go by TCW.
Team both rounds. Doors could barely fend off Ventress and a less skilled Savage.
Given the circumstances he might be able to win round 2 but my issue is Kenobi wasn't just out maneuvering the brothers, he was actively blocking them at points. I don't think Dooku is physically capable of replicating the same feats given his style involves a lot of fluid motions so a cave may actually hinder him.
Wasn’t Dooku on the backfoot against a weaker version of Opress? And it can can be argued that Maul is much, much more powerful than Ventress. Team wins mid diff.
The Dooku wank. Maul solos. He has the feats and statements to prove it. Also when will people learn that abc logic does not work in Star Wars. Just because Obi Wan can sometimes defeat Maul doesn't mean Dooku can do the same. Obi Wan's style is soresu which is the ultimate defense form which is why he does so well against opponents with aggressive styles like Maul and Anakin. Dooku's is makashi and we have seen numerous times that makashi is weak against aggressive styles like when Savage sent Dooku flying when Quinlan Vos beat Dooku in Dark Disciple and all his duels with Anakin. Maul's form 7 will batter through Dooku's makashi
Dooku wins. Medium difficulty maybe if you highball Maul
Savage is not making any difference here unless he's in brainwash mode. Trying to isolate the single instance of Savage landing one inconclusive hit and saying that means he wins is ignorant and ignoring Savages later inconsistencies. Despite apparently "growing stronger", Savage fails to replicate this feat with Kenobi, despite him being mentally hindered at the time, he failed to replicate this again on Florrum with either Adi or Kenobi, he failed to replicate this with Plo Koon, he failed to replicate this against Ventress, despite coming down from 7 feet above with all his weight in a full hammer blow. This is the same Ventress that Dooku can casually manhandle handle with strength. And as far the "bare" edge goes
Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress wage a combined attack against Dooku, whose abilities with the Force far surpass those of his apprentices.
Not really. Dooku far surpasses their combined powers. But let's be kind and say the two contradictory sources cancel each other out, we look at the source material itself.
Dooku easily dodges both Savage and Ventress' attacks, even when deprived of his lightsaber. The one fluke hit Savage lands is instantly negated by the Counts powers, he dodged the rest and it's made abundantly clear that the duo were on the verge of losing before Savage snapped.
At no point was Dooku "barely" doing anything. He had a timely and effective answer for everything they had even saberless, the only blow landed was Opress' one hit which he has never replicated even against weaker opponents after supposedly growing stronger. So that leaves us with
1. Savage could only perform this ability whilst in a Nightsister trance or the massive Dark Rage amp caused by breaking said trance, where he possessed singular focus and control.
2. Savage can perform this again. But simply never does. In which case it's about as useful as bringing up Koon's electric judgement or Maul knowing lightning. It's pointless if it's clear in character they will never use it.
Once again, Dooku wins. He could, not once, but twice gain breathing room against Obi-Wan and Anakin via physical strikes and force attack.
Maul's juyo leaves him vulnerable to counters the Count is more than happy to provide. Likewise if even Plo Koon can evade one of Savage's attacks and land a saber strike, Oppress is losing a limb here almost instantly.
I mean hell, Kenobi was able to push the brothers back for a time in order to get an opening for escape and a weapon retrieval.
And likewise despite being stuck in a confined space between the two brothers was able evade all of their coordinated attacks while hitting Savage with impunity.
Dooku is more than capable of pulling that off.
So no. Savage is not making any difference here. And Maul just loses.
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