Darth Sidious vs Superman

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Cybrilious4

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Rules:

- Darth Sidious gets 20 hours prep

- no morals for both

Fights on Kasshyk

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crest

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depends is the force considered a form of magic? if so hes got a chance if not curb stomp by sups

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JediXMan

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#3  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

Superman gets possessed.

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the_last_kryptonian

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I've rarely seen sidious do much more than shoot lightning. You guys are wanking him for all these 1 time feats.

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JediXMan

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#5 JediXMan  Moderator

I've rarely seen sidious do much more than shoot lightning. You guys are wanking him for all these 1 time feats.

Actually go into the EU and stop relying on the movies.

Until then, I shall disregard this post.

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Thedarklordpandamonium

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Holy sh*t

20 HOURS PREP?!

That's kind of overkill, mate. Sidious has waaaay too many resources for you to be giving him that much prep and pitting him against someone without the Force...

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crest

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#7  Edited By crest

@jedixman said:
@the_last_kryptonian said:

I've rarely seen sidious do much more than shoot lightning. You guys are wanking him for all these 1 time feats.

Actually go into the EU and stop relying on the movies.

Until then, I shall disregard this post.

but he has used the force from time to time hence why i said its his only chance

i just dont know enuff about the force is going to affect sups like magic or will it be like a low lvl telepathy with no morals sup will win every time unless the force works like magic then sups will win almost every time imop

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the_last_kryptonian

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I notice a lot of sidious wankers keep bringing up the instance of where he created a worm whole or mind controlled an entire planet or some OP crap. Ok, when has he ever done stuff on this caliber twice? Since when is making wormholes helpful in a direct battle? I mean seriously. He's capable of creating wormholes, but unable to stop Vader from simply lifting him up and throwing him down a pit. ._.

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JediXMan

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#9 JediXMan  Moderator

@crest:

Regardless, Palpatine's last-ditch ability would be to possess Superman's body, even if Superman were to blitz him. Superman has no way of stopping Palpatine's spirit, which he has complete control over.

I notice a lot of sidious wankers keep bringing up the instance of where he created a worm whole or mind controlled an entire planet or some OP crap. Ok, when has he ever done stuff on this caliber twice? Since when is making wormholes helpful in a direct battle? I mean seriously. He's capable of creating wormholes, but unable to stop Vader from simply lifting him up and throwing him down a pit. ._.

He made a Worm Hole more than once.

He was outright stated to know every Force technique.

He can possess other bodies. He can transfer the spirit of a victim from one body to another body.

He has been stated to utilize mass corruption more than once.

These feats occur more than once, and occurred in different sources.

Also, it's theorized that Vader was only able to do that because it was situational. He was only capable because it was destiny, not because he was stronger.

If we want to use ABC logic, then how would this make sense:

  • Luke beat Vader and had him at his mercy.
  • Next scene, Palpatine stomps Luke without trying.
  • Vader tosses Palpatine down a pit.

So... Vader > Palpatine > Luke... but Palpatine > Luke > Vader. See how ABC logic fails? It's a poor argument.

It took years of training for Luke to reach a level where he could fight Palpatine, and he still wasn't stronger than him; he would become stronger years later after he became the Grandmaster.

Please do research before attempting to discuss the Expanded Universe.

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the_last_kryptonian

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@jedixman said:

@crest:

Regardless, Palpatine's last-ditch ability would be to possess Superman's body, even if Superman were to blitz him. Superman has no way of stopping Palpatine's spirit, which he has complete control over.

@the_last_kryptonian said:

I notice a lot of sidious wankers keep bringing up the instance of where he created a worm whole or mind controlled an entire planet or some OP crap. Ok, when has he ever done stuff on this caliber twice? Since when is making wormholes helpful in a direct battle? I mean seriously. He's capable of creating wormholes, but unable to stop Vader from simply lifting him up and throwing him down a pit. ._.

He made a Worm Hole more than once.

He was outright stated to know every Force technique.

He can possess other bodies. He can transfer the spirit of a victim from one body to another body.

He has been stated to utilize mass corruption more than once.

These feats occur more than once, and occurred in different sources.

Also, it's theorized that Vader was only able to do that because it was situational. He was only capable because it was destiny, not because he was stronger.

If we want to use ABC logic, then how would this make sense:

  • Luke beat Vader and had him at his mercy.
  • Next scene, Palpatine stomps Luke without trying.
  • Vader tosses Palpatine down a pit.

So... Vader > Palpatine > Luke... but Palpatine > Luke > Vader. See how ABC logic fails? It's a poor argument.

It took years of training for Luke to reach a level where he could fight Palpatine, and he still wasn't stronger than him; he would become stronger years later after he became the Grandmaster.

Please do research before attempting to discuss the Expanded Universe.

I honestly didn't say anything about ABC logic, which you are assuming. Anyway, Sentry is stated to have the power of a million suns, yet we know that is not true. Until something is actually demonstrated, we can't just assume it's true. I could get a couple of friends to state I am the president of the United States, that wouldn't be true either. I'm not doubting his power or anything, I'm just saying. And can you please provide a scan of him creating a wormhole capable of devouring fleets twice? Or a scan of him mindwiping on a planetary level multiple times?

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Web_Flotsam

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With no morals, Superman just flies off and heat visions the planet from space.

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Lvenger

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#12  Edited By Lvenger
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Pharoh_Atem

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#13  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@the_last_kryptonian said:

@jedixman said:

@crest:

Regardless, Palpatine's last-ditch ability would be to possess Superman's body, even if Superman were to blitz him. Superman has no way of stopping Palpatine's spirit, which he has complete control over.

@the_last_kryptonian said:

I notice a lot of sidious wankers keep bringing up the instance of where he created a worm whole or mind controlled an entire planet or some OP crap. Ok, when has he ever done stuff on this caliber twice? Since when is making wormholes helpful in a direct battle? I mean seriously. He's capable of creating wormholes, but unable to stop Vader from simply lifting him up and throwing him down a pit. ._.

He made a Worm Hole more than once.

He was outright stated to know every Force technique.

He can possess other bodies. He can transfer the spirit of a victim from one body to another body.

He has been stated to utilize mass corruption more than once.

These feats occur more than once, and occurred in different sources.

Also, it's theorized that Vader was only able to do that because it was situational. He was only capable because it was destiny, not because he was stronger.

If we want to use ABC logic, then how would this make sense:

  • Luke beat Vader and had him at his mercy.
  • Next scene, Palpatine stomps Luke without trying.
  • Vader tosses Palpatine down a pit.

So... Vader > Palpatine > Luke... but Palpatine > Luke > Vader. See how ABC logic fails? It's a poor argument.

It took years of training for Luke to reach a level where he could fight Palpatine, and he still wasn't stronger than him; he would become stronger years later after he became the Grandmaster.

Please do research before attempting to discuss the Expanded Universe.

I honestly didn't say anything about ABC logic, which you are assuming. Anyway, Sentry is stated to have the power of a million suns, yet we know that is not true. Until something is actually demonstrated, we can't just assume it's true. I could get a couple of friends to state I am the president of the United States, that wouldn't be true either. I'm not doubting his power or anything, I'm just saying. And can you please provide a scan of him creating a wormhole capable of devouring fleets twice?Or a scan of him mindwiping on a planetary level multiple times?

This is perhaps the single most destructive Force power known. This power allows the Jedi to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook and Tales of the Jedi Companion

"One of the Emperor's Force Storms destroyed the Alliance base on the moon of Da Soocha and the entire fleet above it. Every day I'm reminded how lucky we are that Palpatine is lost to Chaos forever."

—Luke

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

For Force Storms

For planetary telepathy:

Almost mindless under the oppression of the Emperor's dark side influence, the people of Byss find their life energies constantly leeched off during the Emperor's vile machinations.

Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

You should really read upon a character before you comment on a thread involving said character.

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Sidious

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SpaceMash

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Superman

Supes rushes him, 1 punch, Sidious explodes.

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the_last_kryptonian

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@the_last_kryptonian said:

@jedixman said:

@crest:

Regardless, Palpatine's last-ditch ability would be to possess Superman's body, even if Superman were to blitz him. Superman has no way of stopping Palpatine's spirit, which he has complete control over.

@the_last_kryptonian said:

I notice a lot of sidious wankers keep bringing up the instance of where he created a worm whole or mind controlled an entire planet or some OP crap. Ok, when has he ever done stuff on this caliber twice? Since when is making wormholes helpful in a direct battle? I mean seriously. He's capable of creating wormholes, but unable to stop Vader from simply lifting him up and throwing him down a pit. ._.

He made a Worm Hole more than once.

He was outright stated to know every Force technique.

He can possess other bodies. He can transfer the spirit of a victim from one body to another body.

He has been stated to utilize mass corruption more than once.

These feats occur more than once, and occurred in different sources.

Also, it's theorized that Vader was only able to do that because it was situational. He was only capable because it was destiny, not because he was stronger.

If we want to use ABC logic, then how would this make sense:

  • Luke beat Vader and had him at his mercy.
  • Next scene, Palpatine stomps Luke without trying.
  • Vader tosses Palpatine down a pit.

So... Vader > Palpatine > Luke... but Palpatine > Luke > Vader. See how ABC logic fails? It's a poor argument.

It took years of training for Luke to reach a level where he could fight Palpatine, and he still wasn't stronger than him; he would become stronger years later after he became the Grandmaster.

Please do research before attempting to discuss the Expanded Universe.

I honestly didn't say anything about ABC logic, which you are assuming. Anyway, Sentry is stated to have the power of a million suns, yet we know that is not true. Until something is actually demonstrated, we can't just assume it's true. I could get a couple of friends to state I am the president of the United States, that wouldn't be true either. I'm not doubting his power or anything, I'm just saying. And can you please provide a scan of him creating a wormhole capable of devouring fleets twice?Or a scan of him mindwiping on a planetary level multiple times?

This is perhaps the single most destructive Force power known. This power allows the Jedi to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook and Tales of the Jedi Companion

"One of the Emperor's Force Storms destroyed the Alliance base on the moon of Da Soocha and the entire fleet above it. Every day I'm reminded how lucky we are that Palpatine is lost to Chaos forever."

—Luke

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

For Force Storms

For planetary telepathy:

Almost mindless under the oppression of the Emperor's dark side influence, the people of Byss find their life energies constantly leeched off during the Emperor's vile machinations.

Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

You should really read upon a character before you comment on a thread involving said character.

I didn't ask for scans describing what the power DOES, I asked for scans of him doing these techniques more than once. You should really make sure you comprehend a post before you reply to it.

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Pharoh_Atem

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#17  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

I didn't ask for scans describing what the power DOES, I asked for scans of him doing these techniques more than once. You should really make sure you comprehend a post before you reply to it.

Do you even read? It was stated in one of the quotes it destroyed a fleet:

"One of the Emperor's Force Storms destroyed the Alliance base on the moon of Da Soocha and the entire fleet above it. Every day I'm reminded how lucky we are that Palpatine is lost to Chaos forever."

—Luke

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

A quote from a book is just as good as a scan from a comic in Star Wars, again learn a thing or two about EU before entering a thread about it. And if it's a scan you want.........

No Caption Provided

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zr0c00l

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What can sidious do in 20 hours thatll save him from a speed blitz one shotting the head off his shoulders?

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the_last_kryptonian

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I didn't ask for scans describing what the power DOES, I asked for scans of him doing these techniques more than once. You should really make sure you comprehend a post before you reply to it.

Do you even read? It was stated in one of the quotes it destroyed a fleet:

"One of the Emperor's Force Storms destroyed the Alliance base on the moon of Da Soocha and the entire fleet above it. Every day I'm reminded how lucky we are that Palpatine is lost to Chaos forever."

—Luke

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

A quote from a book is just as good as a scan from a comic in Star Wars, again learn a thing or two about EU before entering a thread about it. And if it's a scan you want.........

No Caption Provided

Very well, but how would this help in a close encounter with Superman?

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tronboy

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Darth sidious would kill stomp superman

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deactivated-5d6746eab553d

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lets see Superman has FTL speed and Reactions and can lift a planet and absorbed energy that could level a galaxy. Sidious has Relativistic combat speed and superhuman durabilty and can summon a wormhole. Superman wins

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@xlab3000 said:

lets see Superman has FTL speed and Reactions and can lift a planet and absorbed energy that could level a galaxy. Sidious has Relativistic combat speed and superhuman durabilty and can summon a wormhole. Superman wins

What are you talking about? Superman doesn't have FTL speed and reactions (if you're talking about New 52, that's only travel speed). And when did he absorb enough energy to level a galaxy? Base Superman has NEVER been strong enough to take out a galaxy or survive a galaxy busting attack. Please, stop it.

Sidious wins in a godstomp.

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SpaceMash

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Can someone tell me why Supes can't just insta-kill Sid with a speed punch? This seems like a no-contest. Sidius would be red mist before he know what happened

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JediXMan

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#24 JediXMan  Moderator

Can someone tell me why Supes can't just insta-kill Sid with a speed punch? This seems like a no-contest. Sidius would be red mist before he know what happened

Because a physical death means nothing to Sidious. Sidious can possess Superman without trouble.

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Lvenger

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@jedixman: I do have a response to the possession feat though. I doubt Sidious can properly possess Superman given his past feats with possession.

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@jedixman said:

@spacemash said:

Can someone tell me why Supes can't just insta-kill Sid with a speed punch? This seems like a no-contest. Sidius would be red mist before he know what happened

Because a physical death means nothing to Sidious. Sidious can possess Superman without trouble.

This.

@lvenger said:

@jedixman: I do have a response to the possession feat though. I doubt Sidious can properly possess Superman given his past feats with possession.

Why cannot Sidious possess another body in the galaxy and then Mind Rape superman who has many poor showings vs Telepaths?

@xlab3000 said:

lets see Superman has FTL speed and Reactions and can lift a planet and absorbed energy that could level a galaxy. Sidious has Relativistic combat speed and superhuman durabilty and can summon a wormhole. Superman wins

Alot of this is unsupported in any New 52 comic. C'Mon now, lets try with real arguments.

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Lvenger

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#27  Edited By Lvenger

@cadencev2: What did you think of my possession response? I have to admit it posed a bigger threat than I made it out. It's the second biggest threat Sidious poses to Superman next to his telepathy. I wanted to make a response to my opponent's reply but then voting opened.

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Sidious gets 20 hours of prep? I don't think my boy Superman can beat him....unless he can get close to Sidious, then it's all over. Sidious doesn't have the reaction times Superman has.

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@lvenger said:

@cadencev2: What did you think of my possession response? I have to admit it posed a bigger threat than I made it out. It's the second biggest threat Sidious poses to Superman next to his telepathy. I wanted to make a response to my opponent's reply but then voting opened.

Like I said, if he cannot possess Supes, he will someone else in the galaxy. giving the Emperor many get out of jail free cards.

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Lvenger

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@lvenger said:

@cadencev2: What did you think of my possession response? I have to admit it posed a bigger threat than I made it out. It's the second biggest threat Sidious poses to Superman next to his telepathy. I wanted to make a response to my opponent's reply but then voting opened.

Like I said, if he cannot possess Supes, he will someone else in the galaxy. giving the Emperor many get out of jail free cards.

True but as per the conditions of the battle, Superman will have won it if that were to occur.

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hardcorefakes

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@lvenger said:

@cadencev2: What did you think of my possession response? I have to admit it posed a bigger threat than I made it out. It's the second biggest threat Sidious poses to Superman next to his telepathy. I wanted to make a response to my opponent's reply but then voting opened.

Like I said, if he cannot possess Supes, he will someone else in the galaxy. giving the Emperor many get out of jail free cards.

Doesn't that make him self-BFR if he goes across the galaxy possessing people left and right?

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@cadencev2 said:

@lvenger said:

@cadencev2: What did you think of my possession response? I have to admit it posed a bigger threat than I made it out. It's the second biggest threat Sidious poses to Superman next to his telepathy. I wanted to make a response to my opponent's reply but then voting opened.

Like I said, if he cannot possess Supes, he will someone else in the galaxy. giving the Emperor many get out of jail free cards.

Doesn't that make him self-BFR if he goes across the galaxy possessing people left and right?

Not really. Sidiuos can fight from a galaxy away. Does anyone say it is self BFR is Mirror Master was to fight from the Mirror Dimension?

As long as he can fight Supes, he can be wherever he want.

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I love superman, and don't let my name make me seem biased , but honestly Sidious has abilities that are beyond many comic characters to deal with. The soul transfer alone should make this fight quite simple for Sidious,,opening a wormhole wouldn't even be needed. Not to mention the force will alert palpatine to any attempt to Speedblitz. Not like it matters since as jediXman stated even if palpatines body is obliterated his spirit will live on and possess supes, making him an even bigger threat

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@uberhikari: Wasn't Superman's crazy bullcrap one of the reasons the DC reset happened?

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uberhikari

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@uberhikari: Wasn't Superman's crazy bullcrap one of the reasons the DC reset happened?

Yes, but that was Silver Age Superman. The reset happened in Crisis on Infinite Earths from 1985-1986. Superman after Crisis on Infinite Earths is known as post-Crisis Superman. Post-Crisis Superman is WAY weaker than Silver Age Superman. And this fight looks like it's between post-Crisis Superman and Darth Sidious. If so, Darth Sidious stomps.

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Lvenger

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#38  Edited By Lvenger

@bane_of_sith: Thanks, my opponent is lacking votes so I was hoping some other Star Wars experts could see whether my argument stands up to that analysis.

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#39  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

It is also worth adding with 20 hours prep, Palpatine can get one of his super weapons like the Galaxy Gun:

An immense space station built in the orbit above the Emperor's new Capital world of Byss,the Galaxy Gun Fired missiles equipped with particle disintegrator warheads. Each missile possessed a terrifyingly fast hyperdrive and could travel from the Galactic Core to the outermost frontier planet in a matter of hours. Upon emerging from hyperspace and homing in on the target world,the missile's formidable defenses would activate. Automated laser cannon turrets blasted fighter interceptors,while armor plating and advanced energy shields easily withstood blast from powerful ion cannons and turbolasers. Once within range,the particle disintegrator warhead,energizes by the missile's power core,triggered massive nucleonic chain reactions that spread like wildfire across the planets surface,explosively converting matter to energy. At the missiles's full power setting,the nucleonic reactions were sustained until all matter was converted,destroying the entire planet.

--Taken from Star Wars-The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

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#40  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

@lvenger:

When has Superman shown resistance to possession in the New 52?

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@jedixman: I was referring to Pre Flashpoint Superman, not New 52. If it was the New 52 version fighting Palpatine, Superman has no defense against Palpatine's TP or possession.

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#42 JediXMan  Moderator

@lvenger said:

@jedixman: I was referring to Pre Flashpoint Superman, not New 52. If it was the New 52 version fighting Palpatine, Superman has no defense against Palpatine's TP or possession.

Unless otherwise specified, it's the current version. Therefore, it would be New 52 Superman. So in the context of this thread, Palpatine is the clear victor.

Either way he is the clear victor. The TC states that Palpatine has prep - the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars canon gets prep, with the knowledge of almost every single Force technique in existence, including the ability to manipulate souls.

There's also the argument that the Force is a type of magic in its own right, especially powers of the Dark Side (words such as "alchemy," "Sith magic," "sorcery," and the like are common in Star Wars. Palpatine has knowledge of Sith Sorcery, which is a specific sect of the abilities. He is a master of Sorcery).

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@uberhikari: I dunno. Turning into a god, hearing in space, and holding a preformed black hole is pretty crazy.

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#44 JediXMan  Moderator

@uberhikari: I dunno. Turning into a god, hearing in space, and holding a preformed black hole is pretty crazy.

1. Not applicable to current Superman.

2. Still won't save him.

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No Caption Provided

@cadencev2: @uberhikari: skip to 1:54 on the 1st link. Superman absorbed anti-sunlight that could've blown up half of a galaxy. never said he could take out a galaxy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r14PJ2DbSEAlot of this is unsupported in any New 52 comic. C'Mon now, lets try with real arguments. I wasn't even talking about the New 52 comic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rds6aL_dW4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uYmwoNRODU
Superman does have FTL Speed and Reactions in the image above and the link below.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t507212.html
So tell me how does Palpatine beat Superman.

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With the force. Nothing beats the force an electricity hurts superman if you forgot

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@jedixman said:

@lvenger said:

@jedixman: I was referring to Pre Flashpoint Superman, not New 52. If it was the New 52 version fighting Palpatine, Superman has no defense against Palpatine's TP or possession.

Unless otherwise specified, it's the current version. Therefore, it would be New 52 Superman. So in the context of this thread, Palpatine is the clear victor.

Either way he is the clear victor. The TC states that Palpatine has prep - the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars canon gets prep, with the knowledge of almost every single Force technique in existence, including the ability to manipulate souls.

There's also the argument that the Force is a type of magic in its own right, especially powers of the Dark Side (words such as "alchemy," "Sith magic," "sorcery," and the like are common in Star Wars. Palpatine has knowledge of Sith Sorcery, which is a specific sect of the abilities. He is a master of Sorcery).

Yes he'd win with prep against pre Flashpoint Superman too. That much is clear. But seriously, you're making the sorcery argument? That's something of which you have no proof of whatsoever. The Force has never shown any specific mystical properties and I've never seen Palaptine use 'Sith Sorcery' in combat. You can't come out and make that claim with little to back that up.

Anyway, what I was referring to earlier is reliant on the fight being a random encounter with morals off like in my debate with @dccomicsrule2011. In the context of this battle, Palpatine stomps quite handily if he can get that weapon mentioned earlier along with some other prep with the Force. If he didn't have prep though and the fight was no morals with Pre Flashpoint Superman instead of New 52, I'd give Superman the edge. But as it stands, Palpatine can win this easily enough. Kind of unfair really.

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No morals at all? Superman can hear Palaptine plotting and planning from a solar system length away and would just laser eyes him from the same distance....20 hours of prep = Palpatine has no chance.

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#49  Edited By uberhikari

First, the scan you posted is absolutely unreadable. I don't know what's going on there.

skip to 1:54 on the 1st link. Superman absorbed anti-sunlight that could've blown up half of a galaxy. never said he could take out a galaxy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r14PJ2DbSE

I took a look at the video you linked and it proves nothing. I'm supposed to believe Superman can absorb enough energy to destroy a galaxy...because some person on youtube writes a caption under the scan that says, "Withstand & absorbs Megaddon power that could destroy a galaxy"? Really? The scan doesn't even say that, lol.

Moreover, even if it was true, and there's no evidence that it is, I would call PIS. Post-Crisis Superman has NO feats showing he possesses galaxy level durability or galaxy level energy absorption.

Alot of this is unsupported in any New 52 comic. C'Mon now, lets try with real arguments.

I wasn't even talking about the New 52 comic.

It doesn't matter if you're talking about New 52 Supes or post-Crisis Supes. Neither of them have shown FTL reaction/combat speed or galaxy level durability or galaxy level energy absorption.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rds6aL_dW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uYmwoNRODU

I'm not watching these videos. Almost all of the scans are unreadable, so you don't know if they really say what the uploader claims; and some of these scans don't even appear to be for post-Crisis Superman, some of them are for All-Star Superman, for example. If you want me to take a look at specific scans, please post readable scans.

Superman does have FTL Speed and Reactions in the image above and the link below.

Like I said, the scans are unreadable and I'm not watching those videos.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t507212.html

The scans posted in this forum don't show that Superman has FTL combat/reaction speed.

First, the scan where Superman sees Barry run passed him, Barry isn't running at FTL speeds or even light speed. Barry even states, "We're approaching a never ending instant. The ultimate stop sign. Have to reach superluminal velocity." If they have to reach superluminal velocity, that means they haven't reached it yet. It's actually not clear how fast they're running. In any event, even if I concede that Barry is running at superluminal speeds, which he isn't, at best that scan just shows that Superman is able to PERCEIVE objects moving at that speed NOT that he can REACT or FIGHT at that speed. Superman never moves in the scan.

Second, the scan showing Superman tracking light speed signals...is just that, Superman TRACKING light speed signals. Again, he's NOT REACTING or FIGHTING that fast.

Third, the scan of Superman rebuilding Metropolis in moments is useless as well. We don't know how fast Superman was moving.

So tell me how does Palpatine beat Superman.

Palpatine beats Superman in a number of ways: 1) Palpatine has relativistic+ or near relativistic+ reaction and combat speed; 2) Palpatine has galactic TP; 3) Palpatine's Force enhanced precognition allows him to know what his opponents will do before they even know what they will do, this applies to both their immediate intentions and their long term strategy; 4) Force storms that ravage planets and can shatter time and space; 5) Telepathy that can drain the life energy from a planet with a population of 20 billion people, subjugate their wills, and cast an illusion of serenity and peace on them; 6) Expert light saber combatant, he's mastered all styles of light saber combat; 7) He's also an empath, which allows him to discern the thoughts and emotions of those around him; 8) He can rip the knowledge of his opponents abilities out of their minds; 9) And if the Force counts as magic, which it is given the fact that it is a mystical property of the universe, then Palpatine has an inherent advantage because Superman is weak against magic; etc.

There are more than enough ways for Palpatine to utterly rapestomp Superman.

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#50 JediXMan  Moderator

@lvenger said:

@jedixman said:

@lvenger said:

@jedixman: I was referring to Pre Flashpoint Superman, not New 52. If it was the New 52 version fighting Palpatine, Superman has no defense against Palpatine's TP or possession.

Unless otherwise specified, it's the current version. Therefore, it would be New 52 Superman. So in the context of this thread, Palpatine is the clear victor.

Either way he is the clear victor. The TC states that Palpatine has prep - the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars canon gets prep, with the knowledge of almost every single Force technique in existence, including the ability to manipulate souls.

There's also the argument that the Force is a type of magic in its own right, especially powers of the Dark Side (words such as "alchemy," "Sith magic," "sorcery," and the like are common in Star Wars. Palpatine has knowledge of Sith Sorcery, which is a specific sect of the abilities. He is a master of Sorcery).

Yes he'd win with prep against pre Flashpoint Superman too. That much is clear. But seriously, you're making the sorcery argument? That's something of which you have no proof of whatsoever. The Force has never shown any specific mystical properties and I've never seen Palaptine use 'Sith Sorcery' in combat. You can't come out and make that claim with little to back that up.

I wasn't using it as the basis for my argument, but he can use it. Essence Transfer falls under Sorcery, and yes, he can use it - which gives more to back up the idea that Superman would have no defense against it. If memory serves, so does his ability to rip the soul out of his victims - difficult to use against another Force user, but he wouldn't have a reason not to use it here.

I wasn't bringing it up as an argument; I was just saying that it can be used. We both know Palpatine wins here regardless.