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#1 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals are standard.

Standard equipment.

Caedus is at his peak, before getting his arm chopped off.

Sidious powerlevels, and the locations, are in the following rounds:

Round 1: Palpatine as he was throughout the novel Darth Plagueis. Before he kills his master. Takes place in the open streets of Coruscant. Nobody will interfere.

Round 2: Post-Plagueis, pre-RotS. Takes place on the bridge of the Anakin Solo. Nobody will interfere.

Round 3: Sidious as he was in RotS. Takes place in the Chancellor's office.

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#2 Posted by guttridgeb (4881 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say that Caedus would win round 1 pretty comfortably. Round 2 and 3 are pretty close, I'm not sure who would win there.

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#3 Posted by JamesKM716 (2018 posts) - - Show Bio
Round 1: Palpatine as he was throughout the novel Darth Plagueis. Before he kills his master.

Round 1 is pretty vague. Do you mean just before he kills Plagueis, or earlier?

Regardless, Round 2 and 3 i'd say Sidious wins.

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#4 Edited by shroudofsorrow (5461 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals? What morals? This is Palpatine we’re talking about. Caedus isn’t exactly a shining example of morality either.

But in any event it doesn’t matter at all.

Round 1 Caedus should win this, though I don’t know much about Palpatine as a Sith Apprentice. Rounds 2 and 3 Sidious should win handily.

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#5 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

Round 1: Palpatine as he was throughout the novel Darth Plagueis. Before he kills his master.

Round 1 is pretty vague. Do you mean just before he kills Plagueis, or earlier?

Regardless, Round 2 and 3 i'd say Sidious wins.

... that is essentially what I said. Any feats before Plagueis' death apply.

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#6 Posted by JamesKM716 (2018 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: AH, in that case, i'd give round 1 to Caedus, i think

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#7 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure why everyone thinks round 1 is such a clear victory for Caedus. Sidious by the time of Plagueis' death could fight faster than Maul could see, smash people's skulls, fall from over ten stories unharmed, telepathically manipulate other Sith Lords, use Choke on other Sith Lords, telekinetically crumble buildings, manipulate heat, etc., and he was a master of various martial arts forms and had outskilled Maul. Maybe Caedus does win that round, but the effort, or lack thereof, he is being suggested to win with is exaggerated.

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#8 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467:

Ah, went back to that avatar? Oddly suits you.

What do you think of this fight?

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#9 Posted by *Void* (1103 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: After A decent fight I would say Cad wins

Rounds 2 and 3: Sidious after another decent fight.

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#10 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

So does Round 3 allow interference?

Round 1 is a heavy duel before a victor is decided. It can actually still go two ways.

Round 2 and 3 definitely lean in Palpatine's favour, but not easily.

@JediXMan said:

Ah, went back to that avatar? Oddly suits you.

Certainly.

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#11 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

So does Round 3 allow interference?

Well, I figured it wasn't necessary. That location was empty, whereas the other two typically have people

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#12 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

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#13 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

They took the day off.

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#14 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: Seems everyone is commenting on my avatar today. But, yes, I like this one. The Fourth Precept is really good.
 
Not really sure. I think Caedus is probably the better duelist at this point. The only genuine skill feats Palpatine has by the time he killed Plagueis would be fighting Kursid warriors (not terribly overwhelming as a skill feat; this is more suited as a physical feat), outfighting Maul (which is decent under the circumstances that governed the fight: Maul was in a fit of rage that enhanced his combative powers beyond any fighting state he had before achieved, and Sidious held back profusely, only striking at Maul once or twice, after which he allowed Maul to vent his loathing until the latter exhausted himself, at which point Sidious disarmed him with the Force), and presumably sparring with Plagueis (I think it would be a reasonable inference to conclude that Plagueis and Sidious crossed blades, but the exact nature of those duels is unclear, not to mention I consider Caedus a more proficient swordsman than Plagueis as well). Caedus has beaten Kyle, Mithric, Valin, and Kolir while injured no less, and he fought well against Luke. On the other hand, he struggled against Mara as well, and Jaina fared better against him than she should have. But there is that LotF inconsistency for you. 
 
Now, power is an interesting matter. TK, I would probably lean toward Caedus, though Palpatine's telekinetic power is titanic as well. Lightning, difficult to tell, mostly because Palpatine has barely displayed Lightning at this point. Caedus has incapacitated Ben with Lightning easily enough, if I remember right, but admittedly, I can't recall many other Lightning feats from him. Versatility should be in Caedus' favor, though whether that would affect the outcome or not is arguable. Durability could be roughly equal, though Ceadus should have superior pain tolerance. Now, strength, not really sure on that, mostly because I remember no strength feats for Caedus aside from striking Luke with enough force to hurt him (I am confident Caedus has more feats than that). Speed is where this becomes complicated. 
 
Palpatine is monstrously fast. Deflecting fire from small armies, running invisibly fast before receiving training in the Force, fighting faster than extremely fast Sith Lords can see. He is difficult to compete with, even at this stage. With Caedus, the speed issue is hard to determine. On the one hand, while he was injured from his duel with Luke, Caedus threw several attacks at Kyle and the other three Jedi within the span of a few seconds (the novel repeatedly mentioned how many seconds had passed since the start of that confrontation). While Caedus was grazed by a blaster bolt that Valin deflected at him, that can be attributed to Caedus' weakened state at the time and the fact that he was distracted dueling Mithric and Kolir. And even after that, Valin deflected more blaster bolts his direction, and Caedus simply parried Mithric's saber strokes and simultaneously deflected the already-deflected blaster bolts away, one of which bolts he guided to strike Mithric. 
 
On two occasions, in Inferno and in Invincible, Caedus reacted to blows from Luke, who was less than happy to see him. Now, in Inferno, I think Luke was wounded to an extent but probably not enough to decrease his speed drastically. However, in Invincible, I vaguely remember the novel describing Luke as a brown blur, but whether that description was an objective third person description or whether it came from Caedus' perspective, I forget. If the latter, that could be incongruous with their previous duel, but on the other hand, Caedus was already fatigued by the time Luke rushed at him in Invincible, IIRC. However, the stupidity of that duel (and basically all of Luke's duels in LotF) should speak for themselves; Luke fighting his nephew in anger is silly to begin with, never mind the power inconsistencies. However, contending with Luke should render Jacen at least as fast as Yoda, but again, the problem is in finding consistency. How fast exactly is Legacy era Luke? Obviously, at his prime, when he ceases to hold back, Luke would be as fast as Palpatine, but I have long questioned whether Legacy era Luke genuinely is Luke in his prime (I think NJO Luke would be Luke at his peak, if anything). In some books in the Legacy era, Luke can fight faster than other Jedi can see and perceive events happening in nanoseconds, yet in other books, he can be tagged by only somewhat-above average Sith. This could be on account of him holding back, which he demonstrably did not do against Caedus, but that explanation is shaky. 
 
And even Caedus has his own inconsistencies. In Invincible, Caedus was sniped by Jaina...which, of course, makes no sense. It would be easier for me to tell how fast exactly Caedus is if I could remember more precise speed descriptions on his part. For instance, I remember in his duel with Luke in Inferno, after Luke pushed him into a brush of tendrils on the wall, Caedus moved his lightsaber so fast to cut himself out that he covered an entire corner of the chamber in light by his collective blurring motions, which is nothing to scoff at. Jacen also outran blaster bolts in Betrayal. But unfortunately, I don't remember many other descriptions of that sort which could give us a clearer picture of his speed or many reflexive feats on his part, like deflecting fire from groups of enemies. So, I really am not sure how to gauge speed between Sidious and Ceadus. Sidious' speed is far more consistent and is much more evident; Caedus' speed can be determined both through feats (many of which escape me right now) and through fights with other characters (which themselves have a level of ambiguity, once again because of LotF's failure to decide how powerful each character is). 
 
However, assuming Caedus is near or equal to Palpatine's speed (which I am unconvinced of), he would probably win. I think his skill and versatility would serve him well in that scenario, but it should be a good fight. 
 
Rounds 2 and 3, I will consider more, but honestly, I can only do that after we actually resolve how fast Caedus is. 
 
@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

They took the day off.

LOL.
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#15 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

And even Caedus has his own inconsistencies. In Invincible, Caedus was sniped by Jaina...which, of course, makes no sense.

I chalk that off to Luke's amp. He amped Jaina and was messing around with Caedus' head. It's possible that he was doing that a little even before they crossed blades.

Invincible was full of PIS, CIS, and WIS. All of them combined. I would have written the end fight very differently. Really, the fact that Tenal Ka and his daughter were in danger should not have made Caedus weaker; it should have made him want to rip Jaina apart because she stood in his way. At that point in his life, the absolute only thing he really cared about was his daughter. And he kind of Obi-Wan-style copped out and just let Jaina kill him. It was so stupid.

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#16 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said: 

I chalk that off to Luke's amp. He amped Jaina and was messing around with Caedus' head. It's possible that he was doing that a little even before they crossed blades.

I suppose. 
 

Invincible was full of PIS, CIS, and WIS. All of them combined. I would have written the end fight very differently. Really, the fact that Tenal Ka and his daughter were in danger should not have made Caedus weaker; it should have made him want to rip Jaina apart because she stood in his way. At that point in his life, the absolute only thing he really cared about was his daughter. And he kind of Obi-Wan-style copped out and just let Jaina kill him. It was so stupid.

Most of his previous duels were as well. Look at his duel with Mara. Setting aside the absurdity in Mara's characterization that, after being a Jedi for decades, she would suddenly enter Emperor's Hand mode to kill Jacen on her own without telling anyone, not only was Mara somehow gaining the advantage over Jacen at certain points, but she was capable of competing with him when they launched Force attacks at one another. Since when is Mara anywhere near as powerful as Jacen?
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#17 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

They took the day off.

LOL.

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#18 Posted by DarkScarecrow (574 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova: Who would win if Caedus fought Vader?
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#19 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkScarecrow: Caedus.

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#20 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

I found another speed feat for Caedus in Invincible . He waved his lightsaber quickly enough to form a a red fan and moved in an unidentifiable blur. None of that is particularly extraordinary, but he did this almost immediately after Jaina stabbed him through the gut (which she accomplished by catching him by surprise....again, makes no sense). Also, I remembered another one in in Inferno; when Caedus was dueling Luke, he fought so quickly that he disappeared behind the "ribbons" of light trailing behind the movements of his blade. Like I said before, it can be argued what parallels could be surmised between Caedus' speed and Palpatine's. 
 
Could Round 2 be clarified? Are we discussing AotC Sidious or Palpatine during the Clone Wars?

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#21 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467:

Well let me ask you: how wide are the gaps, would you say, between:

AotC Palpatine

Clone Wars

RotS

I want there to be somewhat of a gap so the rounds don't become too similar.

The feat in Invincible could be more a testament to his extreme pain threshold (which might exceed Palpatine. Caedus' ability to take pain and draw further power from it is rather consistent... usually... kinda...).

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#22 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: Hard to say. I believe Palpatine did progress in power and possibly skill between TPM and RotS, but what that rate of progression was or how extensive is not really apparent. He has few feats between TPM and RotS; so measuring the difference between them exactly could just become conjecture. 
 

The feat in Invincible could be more a testament to his extreme pain threshold (which might exceed Palpatine. Caedus' ability to take pain and draw further power from it is rather consistent... usually... kinda...).

I agree with that actually. One of the points I addressed on the previous page is that I would favor Caedus' pain tolerance above Palpatine's. Sidious has subsisted his powers on his pain before, as when he trained with Plagueis or when Mace deflected his Lightning back toward him, but Caedus has done so in more extreme situations. Caedus has had his arm severed, been stabbed through his torso, had bones fractured, been shot, etc., and he would just continue fighting anyway. Sidious' ability to indulge his pain is both less tested and, for the most part, less impressive. 
 
Also, I have to wonder: Between Sidious and Caedus, which do you think is superior with Concealment (and this is excluding Jacen's Fallanassi techniques, like Force Immersion, since Palpatine is not trained in those and those extend beyond simple invisibility in the Force but instead include literal invisibility as well; I am isolating this purely to Force Concealment)? On the one hand, Palpatine could stand in the Jedi council chamber without detection of his Force sensitivity; on the other hand, Caedus could even blind enemies during duels, such as when Jaina's precog was rendered largely obsolete because of her inability to sense Caedus in the Force.
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#23 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467:

Not to mention his ability to fight past the pain coming from the sonic pulses utilized by Thrackan Sal-Solo in Betrayal. He fought past the pain and destroyed the source. Not a bad feat at all.

@Silver2467 said:

Also, I have to wonder: Between Sidious and Caedus, which do you think is superior with Concealment (and this is excluding Jacen's Fallanassi techniques, like Force Immersion, since Palpatine is not trained in those and those extend beyond simple invisibility in the Force but instead include literal invisibility as well; I am isolating this purely to Force Concealment)? On the one hand, Palpatine could stand in the Jedi council chamber without detection of his Force sensitivity; on the other hand, Caedus could even blind enemies during duels, such as when Jaina's precog was rendered largely obsolete because of her inability to sense Caedus in the Force.

That's hard. While, yes, Palpatine's ability to hide his own presence from other Jedi is impressive, he did so when he wasn't utilizing his more impressive abilities, whereas Caedus was still using combative abilities in some of those circumstances. I'd tend to favor Caedus in this regard, but it's hard. It could go either way.

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#24 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan  said: 

That's hard. While, yes, Palpatine's ability to hide his own presence from other Jedi is impressive, he did so when he wasn't utilizing his more impressive abilities, whereas Caedus was still using combative abilities in some of those circumstances. I'd tend to favor Caedus in this regard, but it's hard. It could go either way.

True. Although we could infer on Palpatine's ability to do so in combat as well. For instance, he made Mace believe that he was afraid during their duel, when in fact "he wasn't worried at all," as the RotS novel said. That conveys misleading aural projections on Palpatine's part, which he generated during a duel. As well, Sidious has cloaked his presence from Maul on multiple occasions, and (I know you will disapprove of this source) Maul also commented that he could never fully glean impressions or information on Sidious through the Force very well. This is taking into consideration that Maul and Sidious have dueled each other before.
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But, yes, it is debatable, especially given the effects of their respective Concealment and the duration of its use between them. 
 
Moving on to RotS Sidious, on the subject of Lightning, I am at a loss to find a feat from Caedus that could rival Palpatine's. Caedus has casually wrecked Ben with Lightning, hurled Alema Rar across a room, hurled Jaina across a room, and charred Jaina's chest. All of that is well and good, but Sidious has transcended that level. Incapacitating foes is all right, but Palpatine has killed enemies with Lightning. Impacting Lightning with enough force to jolt someone across a room is fine, but Palpatine has thrown Mace far out a window with Lightning. Scorching a Jedi is decent, but Sidious has scorched a Sithspawn to ash. These really are the only showings with Lightning I have been able to dig up for Caedus so far; if you remember any more, let me know.
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#25 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (19685 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467:

@JediXMan:

Just wanted to say great discussion,wish more of the battle threads could be as well thought out as ones like these.

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#26 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrdecepticonleader: Thanks. 
 
@JediXMan: Between Caedus and RotS Palpatine, who would you consider the superior swordmaster?
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#27 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (19685 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Speaking of swordsmanship was there a point where Palpatine didn't use a lightsaber or carry one? I have heard that he vowed not to use one after ROTS,is that true?

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#28 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrdecepticonleader: No. After RotS, Palpatine dueled Luke twice (he also personally killed the rogue Hand Arden Lyn, though whether this was done with a lightsaber or not is undisclosed; maybe it was done with a weapon, maybe not). Palpatine did consider a lightsaber an inferior tool than the Force, but there was never a point where he resigned his lightsaber altogether.
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#29 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (19685 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: No. After RotS, Palpatine dueled Luke twice (he also personally killed the rogue Hand Arden Lyn, though whether this was done with a lightsaber or not is undisclosed; maybe it was done with a weapon, maybe not). Palpatine did consider a lightsaber an inferior tool than the Force, but there was never a point where he resigned his lightsaber altogether.

Okay but he fought Luke in a clone body,so maybe it had something to do with getting older,just a thought.He did have a lightsaber in Force Unleashed too.Though he didn't actually wield it.

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#30 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrdecepticonleader: Sidious still kept his lightsaber in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, and I have never seen any sources that say he retired his lightsaber. But really, the Emperor became reclusive during the Dark Times, and his appearances between RotS and TESB are not as numerable as before RotS, not to mention his appearances during the Dark Times are virtually always as a background figure (though that was the case, to an extent, during the earlier sections of the Rise of the Empire era as well but not as much). Most of what we know of his activities is that he dedicated himself to studying the Force, established his Dark Side Adepts (the Inquisitorius, the Hands, etc.), ordered the Imperial navy to constantly grow, commanded reconstruction of certain worlds, and subjugated more worlds (this was done to enslave particular species, exploit resources, expand the Empire, etc., though the subjection of worlds was accomplished both through his political maneuvering but also through sector governors without his direct micromanaging), but what types of new inspirations his Force studies engendered in his opinions on lightsabers, such as how it might have colored his thoughts on carrying a lightsaber, have never been stated.
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#31 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (19685 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Sidious still kept his lightsaber in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, and I have never seen any sources that say he retired his lightsaber. But really, the Emperor became reclusive during the Dark Times, and his appearances between RotS and TESB are not as numerable as before RotS, not to mention his appearances during the Dark Times are virtually always as a background figure (though that was the case, to an extent, during the earlier sections of the Rise of the Empire era as well but not as much). Most of what we know of his activities is that he dedicated himself to studying the Force, established his Dark Side Adepts (the Inquisitorius, the Hands, etc.), ordered the Imperial navy to constantly grow, commanded reconstruction of certain worlds, and subjugated more worlds (this was done to enslave particular species, exploit resources, expand the Empire, etc., though the subjection of worlds was accomplished both through his political maneuvering but also through sector governors without his direct micromanaging), but what types of new inspirations his Force studies engendered in his opinions on lightsabers, such as how it might have colored his thoughts on carrying a lightsaber, have never been stated.

Okay,thanks.

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#32 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan: Between Caedus and RotS Palpatine, who would you consider the superior swordmaster?

Hm. Honestly, I think Palpatine is more skilled in lightsaber combat. I think Caedus might be faster, however.

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#33 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said: 
 I think Caedus might be faster, however.
Really? Why?
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#34 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan said:
I think Caedus might be faster, however.
Really? Why?

*shrug* I just do. I have to go digging around my books to confirm some feats. I do think that matching Luke is impressive - something I don't see Palpatine at this level doing.

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#35 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan said:

I think Caedus might be faster, however.
Really? Why?

*shrug* I just do. I have to go digging around my books to confirm some feats. I do think that matching Luke is impressive - something I don't see Palpatine at this level doing.

As I said on the previous page, Invincible leaves us with some ambiguity as to whether Caedus could match Luke's speed or not; besides, even Lumiya could match a bloodlusted Legacy era Luke's speed (can't believe I actually have to use the word "bloodlusted" as a description of Luke... LotF sucks). And Lumiya definitely is not faster than Sidious, or even as fast. Honestly, Legacy era Luke can be fast, but none of his feats outweigh Palpatine's, only equal them. And the ludicrous irregularity of Luke's speed decreases the idea that he would be faster than Sidious. 
 
But it would help if you could confirm feats for me. Specifically, I need speed and Lightning feats from Caedus, if you can dig up any more of those. I would appreciate it whenever you have the time.
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#36 Posted by JediXMan (42085 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467:

I have some reading and writing I have to finish up before I can dedicate some time to actively researching and not going off my own memory. I'll try to do what I can when I am able.

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#37 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15173 posts) - - Show Bio

round 1 darth caedus round 2 and 3 is palpatine

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#38 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I know Silver is absent at the moment but to my knowledge you've been compiling feats for Caedus for his respect thread, yes? Do you have any changes to your opinion, or anything to supplement it? I mostly agree with Silver but I am certainly going to be more lenient in respects to Caedus's speed and leave them at equals. I agree that Caedus wins the first round, but with difficulty.

To be honest, Jaina faring better than she should have still makes sense. Invincible definitely didn't have the best plot but it at least made sense, as compared to Mara's performance in Sacrifice. Now, seeing as though I did make her respect thread recently, I have every respect for the character, but she shouldn't be nearly overwhelming Jacen as she did in that fight.

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#39 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (9802 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#40 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

Caedus.

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#41 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious in RotS beats Caedus. AotC Sidious is just too vague.

Caedus probably beats TPM Sidious, though, in an excellent fight.

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#42 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11132 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure.

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#43 Posted by deactivated-59c0eef934dfe (918 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump!

I could see Sidious winning all three.

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#44 Edited by Greysentinel365 (5626 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious sweeps.

I'm open to hear a compelling reason why he does not

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#45 Posted by Wolfmaster7 (90 posts) - - Show Bio

Round One goes to Caedus in a good fight and the other two go to Sidious

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#46 Posted by Azronger (4276 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious sweeps.

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#47 Edited by Erkan12 (8254 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious for all 3, even TPM Sidious was regarded as ''most powerful Sith Lord in the history'' and he force choked TPM Maul from another planet which rivals his RotS Force feats. As for his lightsaber feats, yeah, I don't think he even practiced with his lightsabers until 19 BBY timeline (where he duels with Maul and Savage, and Yoda / Windu). So he was even more prepared due to his multiple training duels with Maul in TPM. In RotS, he didn't even duel for years yet he was easily rival to the likes of Yoda / Windu. TPM Sidious must be same or even better in that department as well.

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#48 Posted by JediTraining101 (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

Sidious for all 3, even TPM Sidious was regarded as ''most powerful Sith Lord in the history'' and he force choked TPM Maul from another planet which rivals his RotS Force feats. As for his lightsaber feats, yeah, I don't think he even practiced with his lightsabers until 19 BBY timeline (where he duels with Maul and Savage, and Yoda / Windu). So he was even more prepared due to his multiple training duels with Maul in TPM. In RotS, he didn't even duel for years yet he was easily rival to the likes of Yoda / Windu. TPM Sidious must be same or even better in that department as well.

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#49 Posted by bigsambino87 (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious sweeps.

I'm open to hear a compelling reason why he does not

Read the above comments from Nova and Silver. That's everything you'll need to know. At worst, Caedus is equal to Plagueis. Being able to contend with a "bloodlusted" Luke, whom at this point was quite a bit stronger than ROTS Sidious, is a great feat. It doesn't matter that Luke was nursing a previous injury. He messed Caedus up, and Caedus never slowed down (he sliced into his kidney during the fight.)

I feel like Caedus wins round 1, with difficulty, but he's the definite winner. Round 2, if he can win, it's by the skin of his teeth. Most likely though, Sidious wins. Round 3, Sidious wins, with difficulty.

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#50 Posted by Emperordmb (1949 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious sweeps.