Darth Sidious vs Count Dooku, Mace Windu, Grandmaster Yoda

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SirFizzWhizz

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#1  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

VS

No Caption Provided

Sidious is DE era. Team is CW era.

Battle in Jedi Temple.

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jt_gh

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#4  Edited By jt_gh

Team can take this but, it'd be close. And Dooku almost certainly bites the dust in the end.

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xolthol

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@sirfizzwhizz: lol the team will be murderstomp by the most powerful iteration of Sidious... Mace and Dooku will be just fodder or nearly and Yoda couldn't win here if he failed to win during ROTS

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SirFizzWhizz

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#6  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@xolthol said:

@sirfizzwhizz: lol the team will be murderstomp by the most powerful iteration of Sidious... Mace and Dooku will be just fodder or nearly and Yoda couldn't win here if he failed to win during ROTS

Outside Force Storm whic takes intense concentration, why is he so much more powerful than his RotJ self. Its funny how people talk this, but never show any feats or combat feats above what he did in RotS and RotJ.

It makes me laugh how certain SW fans treat SW characters like its Dragon Ball Z where everyone just gets stronger and scales higher for no good reason lol.

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@sirfizzwhizz: Sidious can open Force storms with a thought actually, and even as early as RotS he could swallow armies with his storms.

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Richard96

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#8  Edited By Richard96

@sirfizzwhizz:

“Outside Force Storm whic takes intense concentration, why is he so much more powerful than his RotJ self. Its funny how people talk this, but never show any feats or combat feats above what he did in RotS and RotJ.”

I think there is a quote which explicitly says that DE sidius is more powerful than his ROTJ iteration.

On topic, team takes sabers, sidius takes force, the all out can go either way

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SirFizzWhizz

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#9  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@richard96:

I think there is a quote which explicitly says that DE Sidius is more powerful than his ROTJ iteration.

More powerful in what meaningful way? By being younger with better stamina? Sure. There is always quotes of so and so being more powerful, yet its never by much. Anakin barely got any noticeable power boost from AotC to Clone Wars to Knightfall. He was mostly same level only slightly better. Hell, he had better feats as a padawan half the time :/

So much like DBZ logic.

If the Emperor was so much more powerful, DE level Luke should never cut his hand off and disarm him.

No Caption Provided

Sounds like empty wanking to me from what I read.

Feats > unquantifiable accolades or statements.

@i_like_swords said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Sidious can open Force storms with a thought actually, and even as early as RotS he could swallow armies with his storms.

Then in no way he should lost control now should he when he died.

No Caption Provided

His own words is a chaos even he cannot control. Stated as such. It was through simple use of using lightside to surge over Palpatine, and that was GG. Palpatine was consume by his own shit.

No Caption Provided

Some control. After reading the graphic novel, i see the wank people put into this shit now. Its powerful and cool, but something Im sure even Yoda byhimself could counter same way the inferior DE Luke and Leia had.

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Erkan12

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#10  Edited By Erkan12

Dark Empire was written in 1992, the prequels comes after. To say that the Emperor is stronger based on something written in 1992 when there was no Prequel Trilogy isn't the safe bet. People didn't know what Sidious could do in the Prequels when they wrote that. But even if I take that, I would say the difference would be minimum, and I doubt DE Sidious has reached the tier 10.

Yoda alone should able to fight with him, adding Mace Windu seals deal.

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Jooosh1996

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Team.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Then in no way he should lost control now should he when he died.

Aside from dying or being cut off from the storm, no, he has full control over them.

Its powerful and cool, but something Im sure even Yoda byhimself could counter same way the inferior DE Luke and Leia had.

It's not something I would rule out, actually. With Yoda and Mace I'm sure they would have some counter to the storm, hard for me to say what though.

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Richard96

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#13  Edited By Richard96

@sirfizzwhizz:

I found some quotes:

Soon he was ready to strike. Fully healed and in greater control of the Dark Side than ever, he finally acted to end the Mutiny.

Source: Dark Empire Sourcebook

His Force skills have increased significantly in the six years since he was last seen in Return of the Jedi.

Source: Dark Empire Sourcebook

Luke knew that without clones to inhabit, Palpatine's spirit would be consigned forever to the void. But Palpatine was able to transfer himself at the last moment. Within a new clone body, the Emperor was more powerful than ever.

Source: Handbook 3: Dark Empire

Yes, he grows continually more powerful in the way of the Dark Side.

Source: Dark Empire Endnotes

Even now, as Luke appears to fall under the Emperor's ever-expanding power, massive engines of destruction are inflicting death blows to the floating cities of the Calamari, long-standing allies of the Rebel Alliance...

Source: Dark Empire

"You've grown very strong in the Force since we last met… But then, so have I!"

Source: Dark Empire

But the Emperor cannot be overcome so easily. He gives Leia a painful demonstration of his ever-expanding power, crowing in triumph that he has finally captured the last of the Jedi!

Source: Dark Empire

However, Luke beat palpatine at the end of DE only via plot device (the unlocking of his full potential thanks to leia). At the beginning of the story, Luke got stomped by sidius.

“More powerful in what meaningful way? By being younger with better stamina? Sure. There is always quotes of so and so being more powerful, yet its never by much. Anakin barely got any noticeable power boost from AotC to Clone Wars to Knightfall. He was mostly same level only slightly better. Hell, he had better feats as a padawan half the time :”

Well, anakin was stated by Gillard to have improved largely as a duelist, and he was stated even to have had a great boost of power after Ahsoka left the order. You can easily see his growth when he faces Dooku. In AOTC got rekt, in TCW was a match, in ROTS he stomped the count when enraged

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SirFizzWhizz

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#14  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@richard96: all you proven is the Emperor is more powerful due to Force Storm and Essence Transfer. You yet to show Sidious speed blitzig DE Luke (Luke cut off his hand in the duel) and you failed to show more powerful TK or Lightning feats. These accolades means nothing when the feats dont support it.

Thats all im saying. SW wankers tend to treat these empty statements as tangible power levels from DBZ or some other power creep base anime. It gets old fast.

Also Dooku had issues beating AotC Anakin. Breathing heavy at the end. Anakin did not get rekt at all unlike Obi. Anakin further match Dooku several times before Episode 3 in the clone wars show too. All well before a power boost. Saying there is a power boost means shit comparing feats. If there is a power boost its vague or barely noticeable.

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Richard96

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#15  Edited By Richard96

@sirfizzwhizz:

“all you proven is the Emperor is more powerful due to Force Storm and Essence Transfer.”

Hell, no. Have you read the quotes? They say that sidius became more skilled and more powerful in the force. He has a “greater control” on the DS, and he grows continually more powerful in the way of the Dark Side.

“Luke cut off his hand in the duel”

A ridiculously and circumstancially amped Luke. A luke that is stronger than Palpatine. That doesn’t mean sh!t.

“These accolades means nothing when the feats dont support it.”

First, who says this? We have authorial statements saying sidius grew stronger after ROTJ, it is all we need. Second, his feats of tearing apart entire fleets are his best feats.

“Thats all im saying. SW wankers tend to treat these empty statements as tangible power levels from DBZ or some other power creep base anime. It gets old fast.”

SW wankers often give automatically more power to a character only cause he ages. They equate having time to improve with improve. But in this case, we have a base of authorial statements.

“Also Dooku had issues beating AotC Anakin. Breathing heavy at the end.”

Mah, a lot of sources state anakin was easily defeated and that there was no match. The breathing heavy disappears as son as yoda walks in, I would put little credit in it.

“All well before a power boost. Saying there is a power boost means shit comparing feats. If there is a power boost its vague or barely noticeable.”

??? The difference between AOTC anakin and late TCW/ROTS anakin is barely noticeable???

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SirFizzWhizz

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@richard96:

Hell, no. Have you read the quotes? They say that sidius became more skilled and more powerful in the force. He has a “greater control” on the DS, and he grows continually more powerful in the way of the Dark Side.

Only due to using Essence Transfer and Force Storm. Two major things he never had ROTS or ROTJ time lines.

A ridiculously and circumstancially amped Luke. A luke that is stronger than Palpatine. That doesn’t mean sh!t.

How was Luke Amped eh? The comic makes no mention of a amp during the fight.

First, who says this? We have authorial statements saying sidius grew stronger after ROTJ, it is all we need. Second, his feats of tearing apart entire fleets are his best feats.

SW wankers often give automatically more power to a character only cause he ages. They equate having time to improve with improve. But in this case, we have a base of authorial statements.

Stronger how? Stamina issues? Faster? Can lift more weight? Its vague as to what it means and his feats are no better than Legends ROTJ. That simple.

Mah, a lot of sources state anakin was easily defeated and that there was no match. The breathing heavy disappears as son as yoda walks in, I would put little credit in it.

Meh, lot of statements are contradicting as shit. I can show you DOZENS that Dookua nd Yoda were nearly matched in power while you can find several more they were not match at all. So I take the Movie as proof enough. More so when Clone Wars Anakin gave Dooku several even fights where Dooku ran away or needed Magna Guards to hold Anakin off.

??? The difference between AOTC anakin and late TCW/ROTS anakin is barely noticeable???

by feats? Yes. Skill is noticeable, thats all. ROTS best TK feats match Padawan Anakins own. Same for speed, and strength of blows. SW is inconsistent as shit Legends wise or the difference is just not that great.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Only due to using Essence Transfer and Force Storm. Two major things he never had ROTS or ROTJ time lines.

Wat? He had Force storm as early as RotS. And merely knowing of Essence Transfer does not increase your power. Bane learned how to use Essence Transfer and nowhere was it indicated he became more powerful.

However there are numerous quotes saying Sidious' control over and skill with the Force increased, and that his power had grown and was continually growing.

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SirFizzWhizz

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@i_like_swords:

Wat? He had Force storm as early as RotS.

I never seen him use Force Storm like in DE at all before DE . Scans?

And merely knowing of Essence Transfer does not increase your power. Bane learned how to use Essence Transfer and nowhere was it indicated he became more powerful.

He never seem able to pull off Essence transfer till forced too from death.

However there are numerous quotes saying Sidious' control over and skill with the Force increased, and that his power had grown and was continually growing.

Skill with the force, younger body that can handle strain, and able to whip out more powerful techniques exactly describe more powerful and skilled in the force as the quotes say. Because there is zero feats above his other Legend's base ones to say he grew in speed, strength, TP, or TK manipulation. Thats my point.

Feats > Vague and unquantifiable Statements

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LordWhis2

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I personally think that DE Sidious takes this. He was just something else. The guy was warping the fabric of the space-time continuum.

Also, Dooku doesn't belong here.

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AlphaQ

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#20  Edited By AlphaQ

SFW has a point here. If we're told a character gets stronger all we can really pull away from that is that they're just above their previous incarnation until feats or scaling quantifies the increase.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

“This technique can be increased into a Force Storm

[...]

It may take decades to master this art, but once I have perfected it, I will be invincible.”

--Darth Sidious, Book of the Sith

“From the context, I believe Palpatine assembled this volume soon after declaring himself Emperor, or sometime around 19-18 B.B.Y.”

--Luke Skywalker, Book of the Sith

“It must be understood that anger can funneled through the body and released near the heart at the ‘vital gate.’ The destruction can can be unleashed by this method is immense. Thousands of enemies can be annihilated in a single act of malice.”

--Darth Sidious, Book of the Sith

“The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space.”

--Darth Sidious, Book of the Sith

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/star-wars-universe/4015-57038/forums/darth-sidioussheev-palpatine-super-respect-thread-1877280/?page=1#js-message-18709541

Skill with the force, younger body that can handle strain, and able to whip out more powerful techniques exactly describe more powerful and skilled in the force as the quotes say.

It's stated his "Force skills have increased significantly" since Return of the Jedi, which is a general statement of power. And then there are three further statements pointing out that his power is constantly increasing.

His Force skills have increased significantly in the six years since he was last seen in Return of the Jedi.

Source: Dark Empire Sourcebook

Yes, he grows continually more powerful in the way of the Dark Side.

Source: Dark Empire Endnotes

Even now, as Luke appears to fall under the Emperor's ever-expanding power, massive engines of destruction are inflicting death blows to the floating cities of the Calamari, long-standing allies of the Rebel Alliance...

Source: Dark Empire

But the Emperor cannot be overcome so easily. He gives Leia a painful demonstration of his ever-expanding power, crowing in triumph that he has finally captured the last of the Jedi!

Source: Dark Empire

----

Because there is zero feats above his other Legend's base ones to say he grew in speed, strength, TP, or TK manipulation. Thats my point.

Feats > Vague and unquantifiable Statements

Not sure what you mean, here. Sidious hadn't fully mastered the Force storm by Return of the Jedi, and his best feats with the ability all take place during Dark Empire. Force Storm is a natural extension of Force lightning and Force maelstrom, and very much depends on personal power, so his increasing ability to control and create Force Storms very much proves his power had increased significantly.

There is no instance anywhere in Star Wars where a character increases in Force power generally, but then select skills like telekinesis or speed remain static. That doesn't happen. Individual abilities increase if you hone those individual abilities, but if your command of and connection to the Force as a whole increases, all of your abilities increase, because you are a greater vessel for Force energies.

The idea that Sidious' power could be continually growing, but specific powers like telekinesis and Force speed remained stagnant, while his Force storms became more powerful, doesn't have any basis.

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SirFizzWhizz

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#22  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@i_like_swords:

Not sure what you mean, here. Sidious hadn't fully mastered the Force storm by Return of the Jedi, and his best feats with the ability all take place during Dark Empire. Force Storm is a natural extension of Force lightning and Force maelstrom, and very much depends on personal power, so his increasing ability to control and create Force Storms very much proves his power had increased significantly.

I agree as you just did with me. Its do to mastering Force Storm and Essence Transfer in a way no Sith has that made him more powerful. Nothing applying or refereeing to his speed, stats, or even TK.

There is no instance anywhere in Star Wars where a character increases in Force power generally, but then select skills like telekinesis or speed remain static. That doesn't happen.

Individual abilities increase if you hone those individual abilities, but if your command of and connection to the Force as a whole increases, all of your abilities increase, because you are a greater vessel for Force energies.

Thats flat out false. Luke is comparable to Vader in power as per ROTJ, yet had shitty use of TK. Mace Windu was stated so powerful in the force, yet his own TK and abilities were not on par with Dooku. Only his dueling and stats. Obi Wan was very powerful in the force, but ragdolled by Dooku in TK till the end lol.

So saying it all applies to speed and Tk and such is flat out lie. Here is a better argument, show me where Sidious TK was better than anything we seen per ROTJ era. Just one feat DE better than anything he done before.

The idea that Sidious' power could be continually growing, but specific powers like telekinesis and Force speed remained stagnant, while his Force storms became more powerful, doesn't have any basis.

You have zero proof of any basis his TK or speed was better. None. You are just assuming base on your personal opnoion how the Force works like its Dragon Ball Z power levels. Increase power suddenly means all energy and stats increase across the board. So false. Unless you can prove it. I can easily disprove such things and already mention examples.

Here is what we do know for facts, Jedi do not get increase in power to all force abilities via power growth, only increase via skill in said force abilities. Thats why Mace Windu learn and hone Shatter Point to a masterful degree. Thats why Cade Skywalker ability with Shatter Point Healing was equal to Krayts own even though Krayt was superior in force power. Darth Traya power was weaker than Revans, yet Traya use of Telepathy and Farsight outweigh Revans own. Same for Bastila being weak as shit but skilled and gifted in Battle meditation :/

None of this is force power growth alone. Its all proven force training and just mastering said abilities. With force power being attach to it.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

You have zero proof of any basis his TK or speed was better.

If a Force user is on a Force nexus, all of their abilities become more powerful, correct? Because their ability to draw on the Force is increased, their power with all of their abilities is increased.

So if a Force user increases their connection to the Force, how is it any different from being on a nexus in function?

I mean, to give you an example: Cade Skywalker couldn't heal Darth Krayt, so Krayt stuck him in the Embrace of Pain in order to heighten his power with the dark side. Cade's skill with healing was directly linked to his power in the Force. It does not follow, then, that as one becomes more powerful, only some of their abilities become more powerful. Every ability draws on the same energy source - the Force - so if one is better at drawing on the Force, one's abilities will increase.

Thats flat out false. Luke is comparable to Vader in power as per ROTJ, yet had shitty use of TK.

Luke had three years of training, so this example makes no sense. He did not have the time to develop every single one of his abilities, which is why his dueling skill was far more developed than his other skills. And that doesn't prove that Luke's telekinesis didn't increase alongside his increasing Force connection, it just proves that he is inexperienced with TK compared to Vader.

Mace Windu was stated so powerful in the force, yet his own TK and abilities were not on par with Dooku. Only his dueling and stats.

They are nearly equals, so again, this makes no sense. It could also be the case that Dooku's TK is superior to Mace's, but again, that doesn't prove that general power increases don't increase telekinesis as well... it just means Dooku's TK is better.

Obi Wan was very powerful in the force, but ragdolled by Dooku in TK till the end lol.

Because Dooku is more powerful than Kenobi?

So saying it all applies to speed and Tk and such is flat out lie.

No... it's just a fundamental fact which you aren't grasping.

Increase power suddenly means all energy and stats increase across the board. So false. Unless you can prove it.

If increasing your connection to the Force doesn't increase any of your abilities with the Force, what does it increase? Does it increase nothing? When Bane attaches orbalisks to himself and draws on their power, do none of his abilities increase?

None of this is force power growth alone. Its all proven force training and just mastering said abilities. With force power being attach to it.

You can absolutely further your mastery with a skill and not increase in Force power. But that doesn't mean your ability to use telekinesis is left unchanged after increasing in Force power substantially.

You attributed Sidious' increase in power to his younger body... that's because his younger body isn't 88 years old and decaying like in Return of the Jedi. He can devote more energy to his powers and less to maintaining his older body. By that same logic, having more Force power at your disposal would make you more powerful in general. You've just shot yourself in the foot.

If you want to keep bringing up erroneous examples and denying basic facts, be my guest. But the idea that Sidious could increase in power "significantly" and constantly over the course of six years, but his telekinesis would remain exactly the same makes absolutely zero sense.

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SirFizzWhizz

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#24  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@i_like_swords: meh, we be in circles now as your points already been countered, and you yet shown one feat, just one feat of better speed or TK or telepathy or anything outside ET and FS abilities for DE Sidious. I love you bro, but you cannot really act like its fact with no support of feats.

If you want to keep bringing up erroneous examples and denying basic facts, be my guest. But the idea that Sidious could increase in power "significantly" and constantly over the course of six years, but his telekinesis would remain exactly the same makes absolutely zero sense.

Makes Zero sense he is any better when he has no feats to support it. Even if its better by how much mate? How can you quantify the power when its vague. Is it a few tons more? that is better than before right? Feats mate, that is what this forum is about. Proof of feats, or at the least statements that we can quantify lol.

As a debater of feats and quantifiable things like statements with numerical values attach to them, I expect you to understand how this works ;)

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Even if its better by how much mate? How can you quantify the power when its vague. Is it a few tons more? that is better than before right?

In some cases you can quantify it, in others you can't. I'm not the biggest Sidious expert so I'm not sure how to quantify it exactly.

However, the idea that a power increase doesn't exist just because we can't quantify it, is an illogical argument. The power increase itself is a fact. Dark Empire Sidious > RotJ Sidious is a fact. Just because we cannot put that fact into mathematical certainty does not mean it is any less of a fact.

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If he really isn't that much stronger than RoTS, Yoda and Mace should beat him, I guess.

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If he really isn't that much stronger than RoTS, Yoda and Mace should beat him, I guess.

He is way more powerful than he is in Revenge of the Sith. There's about a 30 year gap between the two, and his Force storms go from army level to fleet/moon level. There's no comparison.

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@i_like_swords: Don't they consume anything on sight, incluiding him? Don't seem like the kind of thing he could pull in a close combat fight.

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SirFizzWhizz

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Even if its better by how much mate? How can you quantify the power when its vague. Is it a few tons more? that is better than before right?

In some cases you can quantify it, in others you can't. I'm not the biggest Sidious expert so I'm not sure how to quantify it exactly.

However, the idea that a power increase doesn't exist just because we can't quantify it, is an illogical argument. The power increase itself is a fact. Dark Empire Sidious > RotJ Sidious is a fact. Just because we cannot put that fact into mathematical certainty does not mean it is any less of a fact.

but then you have to PROVE how much stronger. if you cannot we cannot assume and make wild claims.

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LordOfTheLight

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#30  Edited By LordOfTheLight

Sidious should win. Not too much of a struggle either.

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LordOfTheLight

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Also, DE Sidious is a lot more powerful than even ROTJ Sidious.

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Azronger

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Sidious decimates

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Richard96

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@sirfizzwhizz:

“Only due to using Essence Transfer and Force Storm. Two major things he never had ROTS or ROTJ time lines.”

I am talking to a wall. The quotes are general, they don’t mention essence transfer or force storm. That is an additional info you are adding.

“How was Luke Amped eh? The comic makes no mention of a amp during the fight.”

He had leia’s force harmony helping him:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4788465-luke+and+leia+use+force+harmony.png

“Stronger how? Stamina issues? Faster? Can lift more weight? Its vague as to what it means and his feats are no better than Legends ROTJ. That simple.”

I am tired to repeat the same things to a wall. HE IS STRONGER PER OFFICIAL SOURCES. The way he is stronger, he had a power boost or he simply gained more knowledge, i don’t care. He is stronger than in ROTJ. END. And his feats are better, anyway. His force storms are stronger than ever in DE.

“Meh, lot of statements are contradicting as shit. I can show you DOZENS that Dookua nd Yoda were nearly matched in power while you can find several more they were not match at all. So I take the Movie as proof enough. More so when Clone Wars Anakin gave Dooku several even fights where Dooku ran away or needed Magna Guards to hold Anakin off.”

In fact, the majority of the sources state Dooku held his own against yoda. Anyway, if you want to take the movie as major source, anakin managed to hard press a caught off guard and barely trying Dooku only for few blows before being swiftly pushed back and disarmed of one blade. Then, he had to exploit a darker corner of the chamber to last a bit more. Without it, the fight would have been even shorter. Already in TCW movie, only few months after AOTC, anakin put up a definitely better fight against Dooku on Tatooine.

“by feats? Yes. Skill is noticeable, thats all. ROTS best TK feats match Padawan Anakins own. Same for speed, and strength of blows. SW is inconsistent as shit Legends wise or the difference is just not that great.”

Ok. Then I have to assume even AOTC anakin could stomp Dooku on the Invisible Hand... Anakin was faster and stronger than the count while in AOTC he was easily outmatched in this departments. Are you realizing the bullsh!ts you are saying?

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SirFizzWhizz

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@richard96: You say i am like talking to a wall, but you and every other SW fan is kinda the same when this topic comes out. You keep saying Sidious is stronger but failed to show how so outside Force Storm and Essence Transfer. Is he faster by how much? Stronger in TK by how much? Stonger in telepathy by how much? Ect ect. You can shout all day till blue in the face "He is stronger' and yet fail to show how much so in this "Battle forum" discussion to determin who wins by using feats and logic :/

He had leia’s force harmony helping him:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4788465-luke+and+leia+use+force+harmony.png

Wrong. Luke already fought and cut off Sheevs arm before that moment. Here is what happen panel by panel.

Luke talks shit, gets Force lightning. Emepror states Luke can be stronger than Vader, implying Luke is only Vader level here still. Luke attacks again, cuts off Sidious arm. Sidious decides to use Force Storm. Luke and Leia then and only then link up together to cut the Emperor off from his power. That is what happen.

Luke was not amped at all when he fought and cut off Sheevs arm. So much for Sidious being so much stronger it matters :/

Also, DE Sidious is a lot more powerful than even ROTJ Sidious.

prove it. Its easy to make empty claims and not back it with feats. How much stronger? What are his limits with this unquantifiable "Stronger".

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Thoromdil

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Windu + Yoda can take this pretty comfortably. Both of them matched Sidious in the past and would actually defeat him if it wasn't for plot devices. Yeah he got a serious buff since then but now it's 2 vs 1. And that's a very obvious advantage.

Dooku is a non factor... this is a top hightier fight. Dooku is a high midtier at best. Im pretty sure Sidious can initially force stomp him if he could do it even through a hologram in TCW.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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#36  Edited By Dawn_of_Ages

Sidious should win. Not too much of a struggle either.

Also, DE Sidious is a lot more powerful than even ROTJ Sidious.

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xolthol

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@sirfizzwhizz: Again I think you should read the super-RT of Azronger about sidious, you will find every single quote, accolades, feats that you want showing that:

-DE sheev is far above his other iteration

-that he will just murderstomp the likes of Dooku and Windu and then deal with Yoda.

But we already disagree about Windu vs palps on other thread so I know that you didn't want to debate about this.

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ProteusXManRxis

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laflux

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@sirfizzwhizz: He can open them easily enough, but it takes more concentration to control them.

I think the team wins to be honest though, especially if Mace gets any type of Vapaad Amp.

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Richard96

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#40  Edited By Richard96

@sirfizzwhizz:

“You say i am like talking to a wall, but you and every other SW fan is kinda the same when this topic comes out. You keep saying Sidious is stronger but failed to show how so outside Force Storm and Essence Transfer. Is he faster by how much? Stronger in TK by how much? Stonger in telepathy by how much? Ect ect. You can shout all day till blue in the face "He is stronger' and yet fail to show how much so in this "Battle forum" discussion to determin who wins by using feats and logic :/”

If you fail to accept a simple canonical statement, I can do nothing. Darth Sidious is canonically stated to have grown IN THE WAYS OF THE DARK SIDE. HE IS CANONICALLY STATED TO have a ever-expanding power. He is canonically stated to be more powerful than even in DE. More clear and general than this, it is impossible. And yes, his main demonstration of his higher level of power are force storms (he never created multiple force storms at the same time in different places of the galaxy before DE) and essence transfer. But what is the point here?! Force storms are his best feat ever.

“Luke talks shit, gets Force lightning. Emepror states Luke can be stronger than Vader, implying Luke is only Vader level here still. Luke attacks again, cuts off Sidious arm. Sidious decides to use Force Storm. Luke and Leia then and only then link up together to cut the Emperor off from his power. That is what happen.”

Have you realized than in every scan you post, even the one in which Luke cuts sheev’s hand, there is leia meditating, right? She is there, standing with eyes closed. It is blatantly already using force harmony to help Luke.

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SirFizzWhizz

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@richard96:

Look, I get it I really do. I can understand what your saying, I just disagree with why that matters in a discussion about feats and such. Agree to disagree.

Have you realized than in every scan you post, even the one in which Luke cuts sheev’s hand, there is leia meditating, right? She is there, standing with eyes closed. It is blatantly already using force harmony to help Luke.

Not really. Nothing in the comic states she is doing anything outside meditating. nothing says its for Lukes advatage until the very end when he clearly is stated to join her. So from my view, its not amping him at all.

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dark-sith123

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Sidious wins. Dooku is fodder, and Mace won't last long either.

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Richard96

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@sirfizzwhizz:

“Look, I get it I really do. I can understand what your saying, I just disagree with why that matters in a discussion about feats and such. Agree to disagree.”

Well, you can argue that Sidious’ growth was a matter of improved knowledge/skill and a younger body with no effect of the DS corruption, and not a boost of power. That is OK. But somehow DE Sidious is better than the ROTJ version. The sources are clear. However, feel free to disagree, if you wish.

“Not really. Nothing in the comic states she is doing anything outside meditating. nothing says its for Lukes advatage until the very end when he clearly is stated to join her. So from my view, its not amping him at all.”

That’s grasping at straws. I mean, there is her brother fighting the most powerful sith ever, she stays with her @$$ meditating without helping him, and she starts helping him only after he cut Sidious’ hand? Nonsense. Besides, in the first panel you posted we have already luke saying that “the way of the Jedi is not a solitary path” with leia on the background meditating. I think it is pretty clear. Going even further, even at the beginning of DE Sidious and Luke fought, and Luke got easily defeated by an holding Palpatine (he was simply trying to submit the Jedi). It is obvious that he needed help to defeat so swiftly palpatine.

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Vitisid

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Sidious stomps.

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dark-sith123

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ArkhamAsylum3

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#46  Edited By ArkhamAsylum3

Sidious. Mace and Dooku get basically one shotted (Mace lasts slightly longer due to Vaapad) and Yoda ROTS Sidious a fight so he doesn't get rekt as hard as Mace and Dooku but he dies quickly.

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deactivated-5bf470b432518

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Sidious because the team are fodder except Yoda.

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SithRevenant

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Both Yoda and Windu were his equals in ROTS. I do not believe Sidious' powers grew extensively by ROTJ as his inability to easily overpower Galen Marek in TFU; a sub-Yoda Jedi, suggests little significant growth on his part. His power probably reached its zenith by some point after ROTS due to his aging body having a counteracting effect, as we saw occur to Krayt.

Much like Krayt, Sheev went through a rebirth where his power finally exploded beyond the limitations imparted by physical age and decades of dark-side degradation. So now there's finally reason to consider that DE Sheev was vastly more powerful than he was during Knightfall.

But I still don't see a reason why Windu and Yoda; with someone as strong as Dooku for back-up, don't absolutely win this.

Especially considering that the supposed B-team 'blitz' is just a lie propogated by Sheevites.

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In-sidiousvader

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Make it ROTS Sidious and we will talk.

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fairtrade

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#50  Edited By fairtrade

This is one of the few battles where I see tactics and teamwork actually being a factor. Plus the Temple would enhance Mace and Yoda if it's in pre-Order 66 condition.

The trio take this, but Sidious isn't going down easily.