Darth Sidious and Darth Vader vs. Thragg and Battle Beast

Darth Sidious and Darth Vader

Grand Regent Thragg and Thokk

Rules

• EU versions for Vader and Sidious, Invincible duo at their peak
• No prep
• Basic knowledge
• Morals off
• Good teamwork
• Takes place on Praxa
• Win by any means except BFR
• Start 100 ft apart

Bump

Thragg or BB solos easily

Sidious should win via hax.

Thragg or BB solo with blitz. They only lose if Sids preforms TP in time. Which Sids rarely does.

Thragg rams them to death

Either from team 1 solo

These. The power level and speed difference here are massive. I’m sure this thread will have the typical SW arguments that never claim they lose battles on this site, but this one should be pretty obvious IMO. Thragg blitzes in character. BB I’d argue would blitz this battle too, since he wouldn’t see these two as worthy opponents with the basic knowledge he has on them, and would just end this fight since he’d think it’s a waste of time battling characters so much weaker then himself. There’s not a single Sith or Jedi in the EU or Canon that has ever reacted to blitzes at this speed, or that have survived an attack of this magnitude.

Both of these characters should be resistant, if not invulnerable to light sabers also. Definitely Thragg is.

Either of the Invincible duo solo

Thragg is the deciding factor here. Dude's favorite hobby is blitzing. He also loves to go for the kill instantly, unless he holds a grudge against the opponent, or he wants to use them in the future. Don't think that applies with these guys, so he'll more than likely turn their heads into mush instantly.

AFAIK the SW team doesn't have the reactions to save themselves from a blitz. Thragg and BB should be able to get the W.

Thragg or Beast can solo.

@novaprime2: you're crazy if you think I'm going to debate against SW fanatics haha

EU SW characters have ridiculously strong hax but Thragg and BB are significantly faster (Thragg especially) to the point where they can just blitz them before they can do anything and turn the sith duo into a bloody stain.

Invincible Team wins

SW team stomps. Legends Kenobi would solo the Invincible team. Thragg was burned to death in the SURFACE of the sun. A blade as hot as the core of a star would cut through them like a hot knife through butter.

Speedwise? Sidious moves faster than eye to people who are lightspeed. He blitzes the team. Vader blitzing Ferus Ollin is also enough to do the same.

At AP both SW characters are firmly planetary. Vader overpowered a guy who could move the moon with enough speed to bust a small planet at least. Invincible characters would die from flying through the core of a dense planet.

Legends mid tiers like Darth Bane are enough to wreck this team. Sidious and Vader, even Plagueis, are complete overkill.

@eredin12 thoughts? This seems like a stomp in SW favour tbh. Vader in CANON took an explosion more powerful than the city vaping blast that made Mark coff blood. Legends mid-tiers are moon level and FTL.

@tparks said:@reaper4 said: Thragg or BB solos easily

@sirfizzwhizz said: Thragg or BB solo with blitz. They only lose if Sids preforms TP in time. Which Sids rarely does.

@advent_ said: Thragg rams them to death

These. The power level and speed difference here are massive. I’m sure this thread will have the typical SW arguments that never claim they lose battles on this site, but this one should be pretty obvious IMO. Thragg blitzes in character. BB I’d argue would blitz this battle too, since he wouldn’t see these two as worthy opponents with the basic knowledge he has on them, and would just end this fight since he’d think it’s a waste of time battling characters so much weaker then himself. There’s not a single Sith or Jedi in the EU or Canon that has ever reacted to blitzes at this speed, or that have survived an attack of this magnitude.

Both of these characters should be resistant, if not invulnerable to light sabers also. Definitely Thragg is.

Oh yeah, guy who died in the surface of the sun and got burns past 4th degree would resist a saber as hot as the core of a star. Guy who was KO'd by the shockwave of planet exploding thousands of km away from him is more powerful than a guy who made a planet sized explosion way before his prime and overpowered a force wizard with a weapon that could at least blow up a small planet. Totally.

Your English needs work took me a second to understand.

why would a lightsaber be that effective? The sun works through period of time and both Thragg and Mark tank multiple "Solar Ejections/Solar Flare" from the sun surface. Smart atoms break down in time to plasma temperature.

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Smart Atoms stated the temperatures of stars can be withstood but the atoms began to break down over time in such plasma tempratures.

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Eve Upgrade Mark. These are but a handful of pages. In 23 pages total Thragg and Invincible fight through the Corona Sphere and onto the Sun Surface. first 5 pages of the fight take place in the Corona Sphere which has temperatures 2,000,000° F. Next 18 pages take place on the Sun's Surface with is 9,940° F. It was not until few pages later Invincible dunk Thragg past the sun's surface, where they both start to burn badly. They continue to fight and burn 12 more pages before Thragg burns Add to this feat of Temperatures, is the Solar Flares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9owdmL2UWQ Solar Flares are stated by Science Channel to erupt at speeds of 4.5 million mph, and with the force of thousands (low end) to millions (higher end) modern day nukes. Thragg and Mark tank this. Multiple times. While their Smart Atoms were breaking down from sun temps.

A flash of temperature wont work though at all like a Lightsaber strike.

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Pre Work Out Invincible tanks a taser powered by a being ten times more powerful than lightning. lightning on earth 50,000 degrees Fahrenheit, thats 5 times hotter than the surface of the sun. Now times that by ten. 50,000 x10 = 500,000 degrees. Same heat as the second hottest part of the sun beside the core itself.

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A Alternate Universe Mark is capable of tanking country busting "plasma" attacks from Omega Jacket that surface wipe America with its heat.

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Mark casually tanks a explosive blast so powerful and hot, that is VAPORIZED a city. Not blow up or wrecked, vbut aporized all physical matter turn to gas. A city as large as Las Vegas. Mark was not even injured really. No lasting damage, just a single flehm of blood.

so why is a Lightsaber working well at all unless the Duo are pressed against it for a lengthy amount of time?

who made a planet sized explosion way before his prime and overpowered a force wizard with a weapon who could at least blow up a small planet. Totally.

This never happen. Ever.

@sirfizzwhizz: lawl, I will edit what I wrote above. Indeed several orthography mistakes, damn autorrector was set to my mother tongue.

Lol I don't blame you, it can get pretty heated with SW fans.

@sirfizzwhizz: "This never happen. Ever"

It did, Anakin made an explosion the size of a planet in the "Republic" comic series. In the Ewoks tv show a guy used Sunstar to merge two moons at MHS+ speeds and Vader overpowered Logray (most powerful force wizard) when he had the Sunstar.

@pedrolopesmateus:

It did, Anakin made an explosion the size of a planet in the "Republic" comic series.

Show me. Go ahead and show me this explosion size of a planet. Show me two or three more feats like it as well. I will wait.

In the Ewoks tv show a guy used Sunstar to merge two moons at MHS+ speeds and Vader overpowered Logray (most powerful force wizard) when he had the Sunstar.

This has nothing to do with fore strength at all. Its a literal spell/ritual. when the moons combine magically into one and split again when the ritual is done.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-vader-vs-the-immortal-2296201/

Debunked.

I also just notice Eredin deleted all his shit post and scaling in this thread when proven wrong lmao.

@pedrolopesmateus: Lightsabers have zero feats of burning at the temps close to the core of a Star. Zero. I get that guidebooks say that’s the temp, but no writers have ever had a feat of that happen, so using IRL physics applied to a fanfic battle doesn’t work, when the lightsabers don’t transfer heat like IRL physics would.

I get that their temps are contained, but if you’re trying to say anything they touch takes that heat, then you’re wrong, because that has never happened.

If that was the case, you’d need to show a lightsaber touching something, and it instantly burning away, along with the surrounding area, including the person holding the saber. Heat being transferred at those temperatures would do that.

You’d have to ignore literally every single feat of a lightsaber in order to make the claim that these two wouldn’t be resistant to it.

Vader also has never caused a planetary explosion. If you’re talking about the feat of him merely redirecting an escape pod, then that’s also wrong. That was a feat that took negligible force (not The Force) to do. The escape pod was moving at its own velocity, and Vader just nudged it off course so it would crash into the star, which then caused the explosion. Vader doesn’t create explosions.

@kaijuking said:

@pedrolopesmateus:

It did, Anakin made an explosion the size of a planet in the "Republic" comic series.

2-Show me. Go ahead and show me this explosion size of a planet. Show me two or three more feats like it as well. I will wait.

In the Ewoks tv show a guy used Sunstar to merge two moons at MHS+ speeds and Vader overpowered Logray (most powerful force wizard) when he had the Sunstar.

3-This has nothing to do with fore strength at all. Its a literal spell/ritual. when the moons combine magically into one and split again when the ritual is done.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-vader-vs-the-immortal-2296201/

Debunked.

I also just notice Eredin deleted all his shit post and scaling in this thread when proven wrong lmao.

1-@eredin12 didn't delete anything, his account was bugged and everything he had posted up to a certain point got deleted.

2-

The explosion is of considerable size even compared to the sun.

3-I know the moons were merged and not torn into pieces. The point is how fast they moved, the KE would be enough to blow up a small planet.

Based on what are they faster? They may be faster in vacuum of space like MCU Captain Marvel, who has even better feats than them in space , but in atmosphere where this takes place? Not even close. Blasters are consistently confirmed to be light speed in Legends and Obi Wan was able to deflect those blasters from army of 10 000 droids, all firing at him at once, from all sides:

Of Course, Den mused, she obviously used the Force to warn her of lasers or particle beams blasts that were about to be fired at her. No one was fast enough to block something travelling at or near light-speed. - Street of Shadows

It wasn’t the deflection of blasterfire with a bare hand that shocked him—he had fought plenty of Sith capable of that trick. What amazed Luke was the speed with which Taalon had moved. In the nanosecond it had taken the first bolt to cross the distance between them. -Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

"Though the transparisteel in the doors at the end of the main hall he could see distant flashes, narrow red bolts heading one way at the speed of light." - The New Jedi Order: Enemy Lines II - Rebel Stand.

"The wave of charged particles blew over her at lightspeed, nearly - but not quite - generating enough static to drown out Gavin's fierce cry of exultation." - The New Jedi Order: Edge of Victory - Book II.

I-Five suddenly whipped up his left hand, index finger extended, and fired a laser beam at Jax. The beam splashed off the ionized fire that suddenly coated the length of the blade, which Jax had automatically raised to block the beam. "That's how", I-Five said. "The speed of light is just under three hundred thousand kilometres per second. You are currently seven-point-three meters away from me. Your Force-augmented anticipatory reflex action is obviously working fine. - Star Wars: Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows.

An instant later the Force had him hurtling through a storm of blasterfire as every combat droid in the control center opened up on him at once. Letting go of intention, letting go of desire, letting go of life, Obi-Wan fixed his entire attention on a thread of the Force that pulled him toward Grievous: not where Grievous was, but where Grievous would be when Obi-Wan got there...

Leaping girder to girder, slashing cables on which to swing through swarms of ricocheting particle beams, blade flickering so fast it became a deflector shield that splattered blaster bolts in all directions, his presence alone became a weapon: as he spun and whirled through the control center's superstructure, the blasts of particle cannons from power droids destroyed equipment and shattered girders and unleashed a torrent of red-hot debris that crashed to the deck, crushing droids on all sides.

Revenge of the Sith novel

and Vader and Sidious are far above Obi Wan, not to mention precog they have and far superior power along with hax that bricks like IC duo have absolutely no counter for, force storms telepathy, drain basically anything they chose to use would one shot these bricks.

Not to mention that Thragg got literally atomized in the sun, while lightsabers are as hot as core of star

"Throughout the generations, lightsaber technology was refined from those first high-maintenance 'captive bolt' lightsabers to the lightweight modern lightsabers, which utilizes a stablized, massless plasma beam that burns as hot and bright as the core of a star." - SW: Force & Destiny Core Rulebook.

They do actually, SW characters are faster than IC characters in atmosphere/ in combat as you can see above , likewise basically any hax they chose to use will one shot due to utterly non existent hax resistance on brick team.

@eredin12: This, Sidious can just drain their life forces. Easy win.

Yea, or in many other ways. These bricks have virtually zero hax resistance after all.

Invincible characters are far faster than the Sith duo in Atmosphere. They just damage the planet they are on doing it.

As seen in the Null fight, the again weaker version of jacket was shooting stated lasers, and Null dance around them while Jacket kept up and banter with the super being. The lasers are in slow motion to both of them in comparison. This was in atmosphere.

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Supreme characters are stated Nano Second reaction time. Mean Supreme is flat out able to fight at lightspeed.

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Omni Man matches speed and blow for blow Mean Supreme. In atmosphere.

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Omni Man and Mark in a clear showing of on panel lightspeed, through atmosphere, is able to keep up with the Laser. A showing of reaction and combat speed as Mark is smiling to his father as his father helps pull him closer. All in Atmosphere.

Racer stated he could somewhat keep track of the battle across the planet at rapid rates between Battle Beast and Thragg. As both Thragg and Beast threw hands across the planet surface, Racer could not keep up what was going on in the fight even though he has proven FTL reaction feats already. All in Atmosphere.

The only thing is they will likely damage the planet doing so which is worse for Vader and Palpatine.

Either alone low diff

@eredin12: Viltrumites can use their speed on planets, they just choose not to because it would heavily damage them. We also saw this on Amazon when Omni-Man destroyed the Flaxan civilization.

We did saw that they can fly at fast speed in atmosphere yes, Nolan just moved at MHS+ speeds when he destroyed Flaxan civilization. Basically, , he was going across continent in second, that is good but nowhere near light speed for example. While Obi Wan ( Legends version) deflected light speed projectiles from army of 10 000 all firing at him at once, form all directions

That is why I say they cannot blitz them in atmosphere, they simply never moved that fast in atmosphere, just like MCU Captain Marvel never did, even though she also moved at MFTL speeds in space, crossing thousands of light years in minutes, but it would be disengenious to act like MCU Carol will blitz with that kind of speed in atmosphere and same is here, that is my point

As seen in the Null fight, the again weaker version of Tech Jacket was shooting stated lasers, and Null dance around them while Jacket kept up and banter with the super being. The lasers are in slow motion to both of them in comparison. This was in atmosphere.

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Supreme characters are stated Nano Second reaction time. Mean Supreme is flat out able to fight at lightspeed.

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Omni Man matches speed and blow for blow Mean Supreme. In atmosphere.

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Omni Man and Mark in a clear showing of on panel lightspeed, through atmosphere, is able to keep up with the Laser. A showing of reaction and combat speed as Mark is smiling to his father as his father helps pull him closer. All in Atmosphere.

Racer stated he could somewhat keep track of the battle across the planet at rapid rates between Battle Beast and Thragg. As both Thragg and Beast threw hands across the planet surface, Racer could not keep up what was going on in the fight even though he has proven FTL reaction feats already. All in Atmosphere.

I just shows several Invincible characters moving near or at lightspeed on planets.

The only thing is they will likely damage the planet doing.

As proven in the stated Encyc when they travel to fast on planets and shown in Kirkmen written Episode 2 of the series.

MHS+ riiiight if you mean MHS+ Near Lightspeed. as stated and shown. causing irreparable harm to the planet. Not looking good for the slow ass Sith in comparison.

Here is a thought, show me Obi wan exploding the planet with his speed attacks. Go ahead you SW wanker. I love to see it. Oh right, it dont exist only in your mental gymnastics thought process.

@kaijuking:

I just shows several Invincible characters moving near or at lightspeed on planets.

Honestly I do not even care to argue against that, because near light speed/light speed Invincible team in atmosphere, is fine by me. Issue is, blasters are also consistently, over the years, confirmed to be that fast, hence my point, they are not blitzing SW duo here, who can statue those blasters. Pretty simple right? In fact, thanks for proving my point, as your own guidebook scan states " Nolan can attain near light speeds in vacuum of space" clearly noting that they can move faster in vacuum than in atmosphere:

Still them being near light speed in atmosphere is also fine, but that is not blitzing SW team unless you ignore half of their feats

MHS+ riiiight if you mean MHS+ Near Lightspeed. as stated and shown. causing irreparable harm to the planet. Not looking good for the slow ass Sith in comparison.

I am talking about Nolan scene, he went across continent in second, which is basically MHS+ speed. Characters much weaker than likes of Vader and Sidious on the other hand, such as flash of brilliance AOTC Anakin( who got humiliated by Dooku) can blitz an entire small army at such speeds that other force users who can see and deflect light speed projectiles are unable to se them and are simply frozen in comparasion:

Never had Obi-Wan seen such a display of the Force from a Padawan. From the great Jedi Masters, yes. From Qui-Gon, near the end of his life.But from someone so young? Anakin's power astonished him. He had glimpsed it before, but now he had seen it unfurl, and it staggered him.

He had not had a chance to move, to help. Anakin had been a blur. He had seemed to be everywhere at once. He had destroyed ten attack droids, disarmed his aggressors, and disabled two laser cannons without hesitation, with even a slight smile on his face.

In fact, while Dooku was toying with that version of Anakin, he is plainly confirmed by narrator himself to be fighting at FTL speeds, not near light speed like Nolan, but FTL speed itself. So even if someone wanted to ignore every confirmations blasters have of being light speed, fact that characters who have shown to be faster than those blasters are plainly confirmed to be fighting at faster than light speeds by narrator himself, simply cements that:

With two lightsabers, the young Jedi attacked anew. Bur Dooku blocked every thrust and, step by step, drove Anakin back. He slashed through one lightsaber, extinguishing its blade. Then, with a stroke faster than light, he cut through Anakin's right arm at the elbow.

-Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones Junior Novelization

So again, you want to argue that Invincible characters are near/light speed in atmosphere? I am fine with that. Unlike you, I do not try to lowball characters I argue against to hell, but that is simply not enough to blitz SW characters, at all, which has been my point.

Here is a thought, show me Obi wan exploding the planet with his speed

Goku has never done that either, I guess that makes him slower than Amazon Nolan lol