Darth Plagueis vs. Palpatine's Apprentices

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rogueshadow

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#201  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

@g_race: Please see to it that whatever issue you have with erkan stops here, if you can't debate with civility, don't bother.; you will simply get yourself permanently banned.

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Redshift_Bacon

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Vader solos arguably in the highest diff fight hes been in. Adding Dooku and fodder Maul just makes this one-sided

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dark_globe

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@redshift_bacon:
no one is soloing . not even vader .
team wins though , RoTS dooku and RoTJ vader would be enough .
maul is kinda useless here .

KF vader might solo by sheer brutality and raw power .

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Redshift_Bacon

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@dark_globe: Id make an argument for Vader.

EU Vader > EU Plags

EU Plags > Canon Vader (Post-Mustafar)

Canon Plags is featless

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BrainDrain

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Team takes sabers narrowly, maul gets oneshotted, Vader gets speed blitzed and Dooku just barely managed to get by Yoda whose strikes even while withdrawn were threatening to cleave him in two. However 3 sabers to one isnt happening.

They get utterly obliterated in the force round, Plagueis simply existing might make Maul and Dooku a stain on the wall. Vader just gets bent over and spanked with minimal difficulty. The all out round plays out exactly the same only this time he might embarrass one of them in sabers before nuking the team.

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Erkan12

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#206  Edited By Erkan12

Maul nearly defeated Sidious at Hypori despite being heavily wounded; (Legends)

Anger and hatred welled up in Maul, and he drew renewed strength from the dark side. Hurling himself at Darth Sidious, he nearly bested his master with a flurry of deadly lightsaber blows. Sidious barely deflected them all. Eventually Maul spent his fury, and Darth Sidious still stood. Maul prepared himself for death-but Sidious only laughed. By giving in to his rage and hatred to kill his own master-by wanting to kill his own master-Maul had in fact passed the final test. Now he was a Sith Lord-Darth Maul, Dark Lord of the Sith.''

- The Darkside Sourcebook

Later Sidious confirmed that Maul ''fought well''; (Legends)

''Plagueis looked over his shoulder, his eyes narrowed in question. “You’ve fought him in a serious way?” Reconstructed vocal chords and trachea imparted a metallic quality to his voice, as if he were speaking through an enunciator. “I stranded him on Hypori for a month without food and with only a horde of assassin droids for company. Then I returned to goad and challenge him All things considered, he fought well, even after I deprived him of his lightsaber. He wanted to kill me, but was prepared to die at my hand.”

- Darth Plagueis Novel

Plagueis approved Maul's mastery of Jar'Kai; (Legends)

''Plagueis watched as droid after droid was impaled on the opposing crimson blades. “It strikes me as unnecessary, but I won’t deny his mastery of the Jar’Kai technique.

- Darth Plagueis Novel

As for Canon;

Maul pushes Sidious back during the duel.

No Caption Provided

Maul kicks Sidious in a duel.

No Caption Provided

- The Clone Wars: Season 5 Episode 16

Plagueis will not do any better than Sidious, and we know that Sidious is a better lightsaber duelist than Plagueis,

As for Vader; he can move at tier 9 level speeds. (Legends)

''It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda.''

- Last Of The Jedi Secret Weapon

Vader has been stated to be a better lightsaber duelist than Sidious; (Canon)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

- Star Wars Absolutely Everything You Need to Know (2015)

Plagueis isn't beating Vader, or Maul ''easily'' let alone one-shot or blitz, that's simply impossible even for Sidious let alone Plagueis who is Sidious' inferior in saber combat.

Together they beat Plagueis, Plagueis could seperate them as Sidious did to Sith brothers at Mandalore, or Maul did to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at Naboo, it's a Sith tactic, and I am pretty sure Plagueis knows that too. But he can't do that trick to 3 at the same time. Team wins round 1 and round 3.

Plagueis only wins round 2 if he fights smart by using his versatility.

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RedHeathen

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#207  Edited By RedHeathen

@erkan12 said:
said:

Also @erkan12. Piss off with your god damn scan. It’s still Dooku over Maul. Everyone has covered this over and over. *just get it Kanye*...

Oh another new guy that I've blocked. I didn't see the notification.

''Everyone'' :)) that reminds me this guy;

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-maul-vs-count-dooku-748956/?page=16

@erkan12 said:

You want to refresh your memory?

@lichvanastrea said:
@erkan12 said:.

How the hell you can ''debunk'' a list? :)) It's not a theory or an argument? It's a canon list.

A list that no one but you takes seriously.

@lichvanastrea said:

You're one to talk about bias. And yes, you're not the only one. Another person who carries the same asinine logic as you is using it too. I'm pretty many users in the past have told you to stop taking that list seriously.

And then;

@erkan12 said:
@lichvanastrea said:

Like I said, you and Erkan are the only people that take that list seriously.

Stop lying.

@redheathen said:

It's not one. It is many, and the only supposed official anything that the list haters have come up with is Matt Martin's statement, which Martin has now said is personal opinion and not valid. I've given MANY official links and official statements on the book's and list's canonicity, which is what actually got Martin to publicly state that his opinion is nothing more than opinion and not official, and he went further and said that what i said was "completely true." what i said was all sourced from interviews such as with kathleen kennedy, and links to things such as stuff bray and chee and others have said, including the liveblog link on sw dot com, which i also got matt martin to publicly state was an official and legit page.

so please,

  1. tell me again how the list has been debunked,
  2. how i only had one statement,
  3. who exactly debunked it across the board, and
  4. what board, specifically, was it debunked across?
  5. i did. my counter was enough to turn matt martin to say that what all i said, which i shared on here a couple times, as being "completely true,", but you guys just don't want to accept it, which
  6. is the very illustration of not only bias, but confirmation bias. you are flat out ignoring all the official pieces of sourcing that i provided, more than once, on this forum.

You can lol and say Post Prime Maul all you want, but he is still Maul at a time that was post TPM, which means he was canonically stronger, thus giving greater merit that Maul > Dooku as of Rebels. Maul's prime was at least TCW, which places him post TPM, when Maul was on tier with Tyranus.

@gaoron said:

If offcial source says Vader is better then it must be true..

@rgr said:

Hard to say for sure, but for now, most evidence seems to back Darth Vader:

1. As has been said, Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know ranks Vader above Sidious as a lightsaber wielder. The list is crearly in order, since it depicts numbers. It also seems to be based on combat prowess, since the descriptions refer to it instead of fame (also, there’s no Kylo Ren on the list, even though the book depicts him in the same page).

The sourcebook has been updated without the Story Group changing this ranking the second time it was published, and Leland Chee himself has said that, as far as the Holocron database is concerned, he categorizes info from the sourcebook as canon: https://twitter.com/Holocronkeeper/status/832028228885704704

@bigg_z said:

Proud Vader voter here.

Don't get too bent out of shape because he is > Sidious both in the minds of the officials and the public.

This again? I am not sure why anyone continues this argument...

@erkan12 here is a pic from the very nice Prequel Chronicles reference book (thanks go to Darth Ant for this) to add to the collection:

No Caption Provided

This is about The Phantom Menace Maul. It's not exact, but it's a fantastic gauge. I didn't know if you had a copy of it or not and thought you'd like to have it.

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G_Race

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@erkan12: Just because you have posted many times hardly means I owe you an apology, or any bit of belief you command clout around here; It ain't coming comrade.

Secondly I have no idea about countdooufan77's message!? Also, not me.

Thirdly just for my own personal amusent can you post that lightsaber scan again? Im not sure we have all seen it yet.

On topic Team.

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Erkan12

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#209  Edited By Erkan12
@redheathen said:

This again? I am not sure why anyone continues this argument...

@erkan12 here is a pic from the very nice Prequel Chronicles reference book (thanks go to Darth Ant for this) to add to the collection:

No Caption Provided

This is about The Phantom Menace Maul. It's not exact, but it's a fantastic gauge. I didn't know if you had a copy of it or not and thought you'd like to have it.

It's safe to say that Sidious and Maul were the best lightsaber duelists that RoT Sith Order has ever produced.

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YousufKhan1212

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This is mind boggling.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@redheathen:

You realize Dooku has like a dozen of those but with Yoda, right?

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Lord_Tenebrous

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As I said before, this battle is a primarily legends discussion with canon material being just permitted, as per the OP. These Disney sources are overruled by the old canon.

As for the fight, I stand by my previous post. Plagueis is individually superior to any of his opponents, but Dooku is Yoda-tier and would give Plagueis hell by himself. Assuming that the remaining two are in their primes(ROTJ & TPM), they can each hold their own. Combined, Plagueis cannot win.

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RedHeathen

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