Darth Plagueis vs. Palpatine's Apprentices

Avatar image for kingofblades1
KingofBlades1

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#151  Edited By KingofBlades1

@thebluedragon20: in legends canon policy GL is still the highest authority. So his statements are canon in the legends continuity. Like it or not if he says Vader is comparable to obi wan then he is.

Avatar image for thebluedragon20
thebluedragon20

393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kingofblades1 By that logic because GL said vader is 80% of sidious, vader can stomp half of the sw mythos. Both statements are ridiculous without context and evidence backing them up.

Avatar image for kingofblades1
KingofBlades1

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@thebluedragon20: the 80% quote means absolutely nothing. There's no reference point so we can't quantify the 20% gap. This doesn't tell us Vader is more or less powerful than anyone because we dont know what percentage they are to Sidious. Yoda could be 85% of Sidious,90% or even 60%. We don't know. So that quote can't be used to place Vader above or below anyone. All it tells us is that Vader is weaker than Palpatine but by how much we dont know. Its only through GL's other statements do we find a clearer picture of Vader's placement. And that placement is around Ben kenobi's level

Avatar image for thebluedragon20
thebluedragon20

393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kingofblades1 Exactly....my point author statements have no context. GL can say whatever he wants, but what do you do if he says something that contradicts what he said before? You cant ignore some quotes and use others. that's why you should not base an entire argument on statements. Instead use feats, logic, and only use statements as tie ins with evidence.

Avatar image for kingofblades1
KingofBlades1

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@thebluedragon20: If he says something that contradicts a previous statement then the new statement retcons the old. But GL's statement that Vader is comparable to Ben Kenobi has not been retconned so it stands. And even if you want to go by feats Vader had major problems fighting Ben Kenobi. If thats not vindication of the Lucas quote, Idk what is.

Avatar image for thebluedragon20
thebluedragon20

393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kingofblades1 I don't know if dont get what i'm saying or if your just not listening.

Hypothetical debate Obi Wan vs dooku

It is far easier to prove your argument by saying dooku threw obi wan across the room in ROTS.

your opponent askes "was there any other outside circumstances for that feat? was obi wan tired?"

you can say "no, they fought for a short while, then dooku force gripped him and threw him across the room therefore dooku is stronger than obi wan"

It is far harder to say GL said that Dooku was equals with Windu, Windu beat sidious therefore Dooku stomps obi wan. Do you get what I mean?

OT some feats - Dooku has liften multiple large obelisks with the force, lifted a shuttle, consistently broken through the forcewalls of multiple jedi and has shown lightning deflection.

-Vader has held ti fighters with the force, broken through force walls of jedi, and held up large pieces of a broken ATAT.

-Maul has constantly hurled obi wan, and pulled a shuttle off a cliff.

With these feats, all three of them together can withstand whatever plagueis throws at them with the force and individually all are = or greater than plagueis in lightsaber combat. Team wins.

Avatar image for kingofblades1
KingofBlades1

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@thebluedragon20: you're a feats only person. I can understand that. I however hold accolades and feats roughly at the same level of authority. Normally I'd agree about authors not having crazy authority but GL is a special case. He has the authority equivalent to the word of god in legends continuity. Which is why I take his word over all other information.

Avatar image for thebluedragon20
thebluedragon20

393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kingofblades1 Than I'm sorry but your just going to keep going around in circles with ohmygod because right now neither of you are providing a compelling argument and neither of you are listening to each other.

Avatar image for kingofblades1
KingofBlades1

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#159  Edited By KingofBlades1

@thebluedragon20: Its not compelling to you because my argument isn't feat based. While i don't agree with your feats only philosophy I can respect it. Most other people put stock in the authority of Lucas and other G canon sources. And Mygod00 does believe in accolades and GL statements he just has terrible logic interpreting them and recognizing which statements matter more than others.

Avatar image for thebluedragon20
thebluedragon20

393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kingofblades1 Nah he just thinks vader is a better duelist than sidious :)

Avatar image for azureamaterasu
AzureAmaterasu

885

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Team wins all three mainly because of Vader being the MVP. By the way this is a really nice post...

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#162  Edited By MyGod000

TOP Kek

>Says I have Terrible Logic Interpreting things

>Says ROTJ Luke=Vader

No Caption Provided

You Took a Statement from GL About ESB that Said Ben Kenobi is "Perhaps" as strong as Vader As GL Saying that Ben was Stronger and Ran with it. <-----Straight God Awful interpretation skills you have sir. so how are you going to talk about someone else interpreting skills when your's is pathetic that it sad?

You never learn Kingofblades1, instead of calling a spade a spade you still keep using that statement saying that "Ben could be 81%" you need to first Look up the meaning of "Perhaps" then Come back and debate when you have a better grasp of the word.

I don't focus on just Statement only as you do, I got off GL Statements, Accolades, as well as Character statements because they fill in holes.

No Caption Provided

How many sources does this Fact Appear in matters, which you lean on just one Statement while all others say a different.

You can't keep saying Ben=>Vader because you are going off a Perhaps Statement which means unsure or uncertain. Then there is ROTJ Vader who claimed is more powerful than ever, so regardless of what you thought about Ben Kenobi and ESB Vader, it doesn't correlation to ROTJ Vader who is more powerful.

Then you interpret Luke's Duel with Vader as them being equals, but you omit the fact that Luke was using the Darkside in that duel to Amp his powers to engage Vader.

Obi-wan is far weaker than Vader because Vader is 80% of ROTJ Sidious, which is far more than we can say for Obi-wan who only ranks as Maybe a 6 during the end of his life.

take that with the fact that Sidious said Vader is strong enough to kill him, we can see clearly that Obi-wan doesn't stand a chance as Yoda said Obi-wan even in his prime didn't stand any chance against Sidious while Vader has the possibility of being strong enough to kill him.

No Caption Provided

If Obi-wan could have done this he wouldn't have allowed himself to be so easily killed by Vader and continued to live so that he could train Luke to fight Vader Better.

Like I said let all Agree to disagree.

OT: Vader carries the team, with Dooku who is more than enough to Takedown Plaggy

Avatar image for kingofblades1
KingofBlades1

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mygod000: Bruh kms I just wrote a full response and it didnt save. Ill re write it later when I have more free time.

Avatar image for g_race
G_Race

379

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#164  Edited By G_Race

@mygod000: He is his equal though... Man why cant you get it?? Put the fanboyism down already...

By the time of the Battle of Endor, Luke Skywalker has studied some Lightsaber technique from Obi-Wan's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, such advancement would have been impossible for most, but Skywalker's unparalleled aptitude makes him a match for Darth Vader in their fateful duel on board the second Death Star. Both are limited, Vader by his cybernetic body parts and Skywalker by his relative lack of experience dueling. But Skywalker's skill at blaster deflection is highly refined, and his Lightsaber technique so superb that he is able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing - and finally able to defeat a man who is a powerful living product of the ancient Jedi sword traditions from time immemorial. Such an achievement with little formal training is a testament to Skywalker's innate abilities and instinctive skill.Tremendously strong with the Force, Skywalker never crosses the line into Sith hatefulness and ceases his attack immediately upon rendering his foe helpless - an even more impressive demonstration of self-mastery than his Lightsaber skills.

Insider #62: Fightsaber

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

The Official Star Wars Fact File 111

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#165  Edited By MyGod000

@g_race said:

@mygod000: He is his equal though... Man why cant you get it?? Put the fanboyism down already...

By the time of the Battle of Endor, Luke Skywalker has studied some Lightsaber technique from Obi-Wan's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, such advancement would have been impossible for most, but Skywalker's unparalleled aptitude makes him a match for Darth Vader in their fateful duel on board the second Death Star. Both are limited, Vader by his cybernetic body parts and Skywalker by his relative lack of experience dueling. But Skywalker's skill at blaster deflection is highly refined, and his Lightsaber technique so superb that he is able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing - and finally able to defeat a man who is a powerful living product of the ancient Jedi sword traditions from time immemorial. Such an achievement with little formal training is a testament to Skywalker's innate abilities and instinctive skill.Tremendously strong with the Force, Skywalker never crosses the line into Sith hatefulness and ceases his attack immediately upon rendering his foe helpless - an even more impressive demonstration of self-mastery than his Lightsaber skills.

Insider #62: Fightsaber

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

The Official Star Wars Fact File 111

Like I said Vader is only my 2nd favorite he isn't my favorite and I don't let my Feelings for character cloud my judgment.

No Caption Provided

Stated that Vader was equally formidable as Palpatine during Empire Strikes Back.

Impossible for him to be nearly equal to the Emperor and Be Equal with Obi-wan who you guys are saying is weaker than his ROTS Counterpart. Logical fallacy.

Not saying Luke didn't get strong after his first Duel with Vader. I am saying he used the Darkside which was stated in the script of ROTJ, that Luke used Wrathful emotions to boost his powers to fight Vader.

To ignore that you are ignoring logic and just think Luke Got equal with Vader with training alone when its state in the fight that Luke.

Anakin Skywalker: The Story of Darth Vader where He specifically states that Luke was using his rage to Amp his attack, saying: "Again the young Jedi allowed his anger to bleed away”.

If you are going to talk about Luke Equaled Vader make sure you mention that he was using his rage otherwise it feels like you are intentionally lying by leaving out information pertaining to the battle to dictate the debate.

Lastly, what you guy ignore is that If Vader was so far apart in power from Sidious then a Simply Force Lighting Would have wrecked him instantly like it did Luke regardless if he was on guard or not. But it didn't, which proves my point.

Avatar image for g_race
G_Race

379

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mygod000:

Okay, sorry for your perception of confusion. Let me clarify it. Luke used darker emotions during his fight on the DS 2. He foiught as an equal..... better ?

Also, Vader did in fact take Palps lightning, & it nearly killed him or was largely responsible for it.. Like Luke... what does this change exactly ?

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#167  Edited By Erkan12

Lol at Plagueis one-shotting Maul but not Dooku.

Some people really have issues with that Maul > Dooku thing. Right here and says hello :))

No Caption Provided

Anyways, Plagueis loses to this team, imagine Maul + Savage was able to push Sidious in a saber round only, pushing him to use his Force powers against them. Maul + Vader + Dooku would be a nightmare for him.

Plagueis loses, I would say even Sidious loses too.

@mygod000 said:

Vader stomps Dooku hard.

My Empire, so perfect in vision, has at times proved infuriating in its implementation because of the sloth and stupidity of my underlings. Even Vader, my minor masterpiece, is often weak and indecisive. It is fortunate that I have an eternity to outlive his errors.

-- Book Of Sith: Secrets From The Dark Side

Vader is Sidious greatest a minor masterpiece. Which places him higher than Dooku regardless of what you think of Vader.

Sidious was passively able to Force choke Dooku, he has never done such things to Vader, even while Vader has openly disobeyed him.

This source is vastly outdated tbh.

But the fact that Dooku was just a ''proton torpedo'' for Vader,

Sidious: ''And my apprentices? Darth Maul was a loss, but Darth Tyranus... He was a proton torpedo.''- Darth Vader #20: End of Games, Part I

And Vader didn't lose any power due to loss of limbs according to the new and updated sources,

No Caption Provided

I would say yes, it's official that Vader > Dooku.

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#169  Edited By MyGod000

@g_race said:

@mygod000:

Okay, sorry for your perception of confusion. Let me clarify it. Luke used darker emotions during his fight on the DS 2. He foiught as an equal..... better ?

Also, Vader did in fact take Palps lightning, & it nearly killed him or was largely responsible for it.. Like Luke... what does this change exactly ?

You forget when he tanked the Force Lighting he was WEaker than he had ever been.

Which was said in all Sources. He died Because of the Cybernetic was Made to be extremely weak Against Force lighting, not because of an Arbitrary power difference.

this was also stated by GL.

at the End of the Day, he still tanked it long enough to kill Sidious. you are the one not listening to facts now.

Avatar image for richard96
Richard96

5996

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@erkan12:

“Maul + Savage was able to push Sidious in a saber round only”

Still with this comedy? LOL

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@richard96: Sorry I blocked you before I didn't see the notification.

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@mygod000 said:
@g_race said:

@mygod000:

Okay, sorry for your perception of confusion. Let me clarify it. Luke used darker emotions during his fight on the DS 2. He foiught as an equal..... better ?

Also, Vader did in fact take Palps lightning, & it nearly killed him or was largely responsible for it.. Like Luke... what does this change exactly ?

You forget when he tanked the Force Lighting he was WEaker than he had ever been.

Which was said in all Sources. He died Because of the Cybernetic was Made to be extremely weak Against Force lighting, not because of an Arbitrary power difference.

this was also stated by GL.

at the End of the Day, he still tanked it long enough to kill Sidious. you are the one not listening to facts now.

I am afraid that's also outdated.

No Caption Provided

Vader survives a Force lightning blast from Sidious, although Sidious wasn't using his full power on Vader in here obviously.

Vader simply died in RotJ because he didn't have any lightsaber to deflect it and Sidious was using full power, and even if he had a lightsaber, he couldn't use that in that position when he was throwing Sidious to the reactor shaft.

Avatar image for wolfrazer
Wolfrazer

16822

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#173  Edited By Wolfrazer

Vader extremely weak to lightning? ....He’s not really any weaker than others and in fact better at withstanding. TFU 1 and 2 show this, as does ROTJ and other sources with electrical attacks. Enough with this false information it never was really a thing.

He’s also tweaked his suit for better protection against it.

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@erkan12: I understand what you are saying. We were discussing Legends Vader, not Canon Vader we all know Canon Vader is more powerful.

I was saying that GL said Vader only died against Sidious was mainly due to his Cybernetic. It didn't help that Vader was extremely weakened while he was Tanking those Force lighting.

Avatar image for g_race
G_Race

379

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mygod000: Luke fought as an equal. it is & has been stated, im not even sure what we are duscussing anymore. Lightning messed them both up.

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#176  Edited By MyGod000

@g_race said:

@mygod000: Luke fought as an equal. it is & has been stated, im not even sure what we are duscussing anymore. Lightning messed them both up.

What we are discussing is you not admitting that Luke used wrathful emotion to battle Vader.

You guys are using Double Standards.

The Emperor hissed. 'Your fleet is lost - and your friends on the Endor Moon will not survive...' He pushed a comlink button on the arm of his throne and spoke into it with relish. 'Commander Jerjerrod, should the Rebels manage to blow up the shield generator, you will turn this battle station onto the Endor Moon and destroy it.'

'Yes, Your Highness,' came the voice over the receiver, 'but we have several battalions stationed on-'

'You will destroy it!' the Emperor's whisper was more final than any scream.

'Yes, Your Highness.'

Palpatine turned back to Luke - the former, shaking with glee; the latter, with outrage.

'There is no escape, my young pupil. The Alliance will die - as will your friends.'

Luke's face was contorted, reflecting his spirit. Vader watched him carefully, as did the Emperor. The lightsaber began to shake on its resting place. The young Jedi's hand was trembling, his lips pulled back in grimace, his teeth grinding.

The Emperor smiled. 'Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless - take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey toward the dark side will be complete.' He laughed, and laughed.

Luke was able to resist no longer. The lightsaber rattled violently on the throne a moment, then flew into his hand, impelled by the Force. He ignited it a moment later and swung it with his full weight downward toward the Emperor's skull.

In that instant, Vader's blade flashed into view, parrying Luke's attack an inch above the Emperor's head. Sparks flew like forging steel, bathing Palpatine's grinning face in a hellish glare.

Luke jumped back, and turned, lightsaber upraised, to face his father. Vader extended his own blade, poised to do battle.

The Emperor sighed with pleasure and sat in his throne, facing the combatants - the sole audience to this dire, aggrieved contest.

...

Slowly, Luke and Vader circled. Lightsaber high above his head, Luke readied his attack from classic first-position; the Dark Lord held a lateral stance, in classic answer. Without announcement, Luke brought his blade straight down - then, when Vader moved to parry, Luke feinted and cut low. Vader counterparried, let the impact direct his sword toward Luke's throat... but Luke met the riposte and stepped back. The first blows, traded without injury. Again, they circled.

Vader was impressed with Luke's speed. Pleased, even. It was a pity, almost, he couldn't let the boy kill the Emperor yet. Luke wasn't ready for that, emotionally. There was still a chance Luke would return to his friends if he destroyed the Emperor now. He needed more extensive tutelage, first - training by both Vader and Palpatine - before he'd be ready to assume his place at Vader's right hand, ruling the galaxy.

So Vader had to shepherd the boy through periods like this, stop him from doing damage in the wrong places - or in the right places prematurely.

Before Vader could gather his thoughts much further, though, Luke attacked again - much more aggressively. He advanced in a flurry of lunges, each met with a loud crack of Vader's phosphorescent saber. The Dark Lord retreated a step at every slash, swiveling once to bring his cutting beam up viciously - but Luke batted it away, pushing Vader back yet again. The Lord of the Sith momentarily lost his footing on the stairs and tumbled to his knees.

Luke stood above him, at the top of the staircase, heady with his own power. It was in his hands, now, he knew it was: he could take Vader. Take his blade, take his life. Take his place at the Emperor's side. Yes, even that. Luke didn't bury the thought, this time; he gloried in it. He engorged himself with its juices, felt its power tingle his cheeks. It made him feverish, this thought, with lust so overpowering as to totally obliterate all other considerations.

He had the power; the choice was his.

And then another thought emerged, slowly compulsive as an ardent lover: he could destroy the Emperor, too. Destroy them both, and rule the galaxy. Avenge and conquer.

It was a profound moment for Luke. Dizzying. Yet he did not swoon. Nor did he recoil.

He took one step forward.

For the first time, the thought entered Vader's consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City - not to mention the boy's timing, which was honed to a thought's-breadth. This was an unexpected circumstance. Unexpected and unwelcome. Vader felt humiliation crawling in on the tail of his first reaction, which was surprise, and his second, which was fear. And then the edge of the humiliation curled up, to reveal bald anger. And now he wanted revenge.

These things were mirrored, each facet, by the young Jedi who now towered above him. The Emperor, watching joyously, saw this, and goaded Luke on to revel in his Darkness. 'Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Yes! Let the hate flow through you! Become one with it, let it nourish you!'

Luke faltered a moment - then realized what was happening. He was suddenly confused again. What did he want? What should he do? His brief exultation, his microsecond of dark clarity - gone, now, in a wash of indecision, veiled enigma. Cold awakening from a passionate flirtation.

He took a step back, lowered his sword, relaxed, and tried to drive the hatred from his being.

In that instant, Vader attacked. He lunged half up the stairs, forcing Luke to reverse defensively. He bound the boy's blade with his own, but Luke disengaged and leaped to the safety of an overhead gantry. Vader jumped over the railing to the floor beneath the platform on which Luke stood.

'I will not fight you, Father,' Luke stated.

'You are unwise to lower your defenses,' Vader warned. His anger was layered, now - he did not want to win if the boy was not battling to the fullest. But if winning meant he had to kill a boy who wouldn't fight... then he could do that, too. Only he wanted Luke to be aware of those consequences. He wanted Luke to know this was no longer just a game. This was Darkness.

Luke heard something else, though. 'Your thoughts betray you, Father. I feel the good in you ... the conflict. You could not bring yourself to kill me before - and you won't destroy me now.' Twice before, in fact - to Luke's recollection - Vader could have killed him, but didn't. In the dogfight over the first Death Star, and later in the lightsaber duel on Bespin. He thought of Leia, briefly now, too - of how Vader had had her in his clutches once, had even tortured her ... but didn't kill her. He winced to think of her agony, but quickly pushed that from his mind. The point was clear to him, now, though so often so murky: there was still good in his father.

This accusation really made Vader angry. He could tolerate much from the insolent child, but this was insufferable. He must teach this boy a lesson he would never forget, or die learning. 'Once again, you underestimate the power of the dark side ...'

Vader threw his scintillating blade - it sliced through the supports holding up the gantry on which Luke was perched, then swept around and flew back into Vader's hand. Luke tumbled to the ground, then rolled down another level, under the tilting platform. In the shadow of the darkened overhang, he was out of sight. Vader paced the area like a cat, seeking the boy; but he wouldn't enter the shadows of the overhang.

'You cannot hide forever, Luke.'

'You'll have to come in and get me,' replied the disembodied voice.

'I will not give you the advantage that easily.' Vader felt his intentions increasingly ambiguous in this conflict; the purity of his evil was being compromised. The boy was clever indeed - Vader knew he must move with extreme caution now.

'I wish no advantage, Father. I will not fight you. Here ... take my weapon.' Luke knew full well this might be his end, but so be it. He would not use Darkness to fight Darkness. Perhaps it would be left to Leia, after all, to carry on the struggle, without him. Perhaps she would know a way he didn't know; perhaps she could find a path. For now, though, he could see only two paths, and one was into Darkness; and one was not.

Luke put his lightsaber on the ground, and rolled it along the floor toward Vader. It stopped halfway between them, in the middle of the low overhead area. The Dark Lord reached out his hand - Luke's lightsaber jumped into it. He hooked it to his belt and, with grave uncertainty, entered the shadowy overhang.

He was picking up additional feelings from Luke, now, new crosscurrents of doubt. Remorse, regret, abandonment. Shades of pain. But somehow not directly related to Vader. To others, to ... Endor. Ah, that was it - the Sanctuary Moon where his friends would soon die. Luke would learn soon enough: friendship was different on the dark side. A different thing altogether.

'Give yourself to the dark side, Luke,' he entreated. 'It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you, son. Your feelings for them are strong, especially for-'

Vader stopped. He sensed something.

Luke withdrew further into shadow. He tried to hide, but there was no way to hide what was in his mind - Leia was in pain. Her agony cried to him now, and his spirit cried with her. He tried to shut it out, to shut it up, but the cry was loud, and he couldn't stifle it, couldn't leave it alone, had to cradle it openly, to give it solace.

Vader's consciousness invaded that private place.

'No!' screamed Luke.

Vader was incredulous. 'Sister? Sister!' he bellowed. 'Your feelings have now betrayed her, too ... Twins!' he roared triumphantly. 'Obi-Wan was wise to hide her, but now his failure is complete.' His smile was clear to Luke, through the mask, through the shadows, through all the realms of Darkness. 'If you will not turn to the Dark Side, perhaps she will.'

This, then, was Luke's breaking point. For Leia was everyone's last unflagging hope. If Vader turned his twisted, misguided cravings on her ...

'Never!' he screamed. His lightsaber flew off Vader's belt into his own hand, igniting as it came to him.

He rushed to his father with a frenzy he'd never known. Nor had Vader. The gladiators battled fiercely, sparks flying from the clash of their radiant weapons, but it was soon evident that the advantage was all Luke's. And he was pressing it. They locked swords, body to body. When Luke pushed Vader back to break the clinch, the Dark Lord hit his head on an over-hanging beam in the cramped space. He stumbled backward even farther, out of the low-hanging area. Luke pursued him relentlessly.

Blow upon blow, Luke forced Vader to retreat - back, onto the bridge that crossed the vast, seemingly bottomless shaft to the power core. Each stroke of Luke's saber pummeled Vader, like accusations, like screams, like shards of hate.

The Dark Lord was driven to his knees. He raised his blade to block yet another onslaught - and Luke slashed Vader's right hand off at the wrist.

The hand, along with bits of metal, wires, and electronic devices, clattered uselessly away while Vader's lightsaber tumbled over the edge of the span, into the endless shaft below, without a trace.

Luke stared at his father's twitching, severed, mechanical hand - and then at his own black-gloved artificial part - and realized suddenly just how much he'd become like his father. Like the man he hated.

Trembling, he stood above Vader, the point of his glowing blade at the Dark Lord's throat. He wanted to destroy this thing of Darkness, this thing that was once his father, this thing that was ... him.

Suddenly the Emperor was there, looking on, chuckling with uncontrollable, pleased agitation. 'Good! Kill him! Your hate has made you powerful! Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!'

Luke stared at his father beneath him, then at the Emperor, then back at Vader. This was Darkness - and it was the Darkness he hated. Not his father, not even the Emperor. But the Darkness in them. In them, and in himself.

And the only way to destroy the Darkness was to renounce it. For good and all. He stood suddenly erect, and made the decision for which he'd spent his life in preparation.

He hurled his lightsaber away. 'Never! Never will I turn to the dark side! You have failed, Palpatine. I am a Jedi, as my father was before me.'

The Emperor's glee turned to a sullen rage. 'So be it, Jedi. If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.'

Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke: blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingers, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the boy's insides, looking for ground. The young Jedi was at once confounded and in agony - he'd never heard of such a power, such a corruption of the Force, let alone experienced it.

But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful - the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them, convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.

Vader crawled, like a wounded animal, to his Emperor's side.

...

On the Death Star, Luke was nearly unconscious beneath the continuing assault of the Emperor's lightning. Tormented beyond reason, betaken of a weakness that drained his very essence, he hoped for nothing more than to submit to the nothingness toward which he was drifting.

The Emperor smiled down at the enfeebled young Jedi, as Vader struggled to his feet beside his master.

'Young fool!' Palpatine rasped at Luke. 'Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!'

He laughed maniacally; and although it would not have seemed possible to Luke, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increased in intensity. The sound screamed through the room, the murderous brightness of the flashes was overwhelming.

Luke's body slowed, wilted, finally crumpled under the hideous barrage. He stopped moving altogether. At last, he appeared totally lifeless. The Emperor hissed maliciously.

At that instant, Vader sprang up and grabbed the Emperor from behind, pinning Palpatine's upper arras to his torso. Weaker than he'd ever been, Vader had lain still these last few minutes, focusing his every fiber of being on this one, concentrated act - the only action possible; his last, if he failed. Ignoring pain, ignoring his shame and his weaknesses, ignoring the bone-crushing noise in his head, he focused solely and sightlessly on his will - his will to defeat the evil embodied in the Emperor.

Palpatine struggled in the grip of Vader's unfeeling embrace, his hands still shooting bolts of malign energy out in all directions. In his wild flailing, the lightning ripped across the room, tearing into Vader. The Dark Lord fell again, electric currents crackling down his helmet, over his cape, into his heart.

Vader stumbled with his load to the middle of the bridge over the black chasm leading to the power core. He held the wailing despot high over his head, and with a final spasm of strength, hurled him into the abyss.

Palpatine's body, still spewing bolts of light, spun out of control, into the void, bouncing back and forth off the sides of the shaft as it fell. It disappeared at last; but then, a few seconds later, a distant explosion could be heard, far down at the core. A rush of air billowed out the shaft, into the throne room.

The wind whipped at Lord Vader's cape, as he staggered and collapsed toward the hole, trying to follow his master to the end. Luke crawled to his father's side, though, and pulled the Dark Lord away from the edge of the chasm, to safety.

Both of them lay on the floor, entwined in each other, too weak to move, too moved to speak.

Return of the Jedi novelization

Out of the window and on the view screens, the Rebel fleet is being decimated in blinding explosions of light and debris. But in here there is no sound of battle. The Emperor turns to Luke.

EMPEROR: "Your fleet has lost. And your friends on the Endor moon will not survive. There is no escape, my young apprentice. The Alliance will die...as will your friends."

Luke's eyes are full of rage. Vader watches him.

EMPEROR: "Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete."

Luke can resist no longer. The lightsaber flies into his hand. He ignites it in an instant and swings at the Emperor. Vader's lightsaber flashes into view, blocking Luke's blow before it can reach the Emperor. The two blades spark at contact. Luke turns to fight his father.

...

Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to attack.

EMPEROR (laughing): "Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hate flow through you."

Luke looks momentarily toward the Emperor, then back to Vader, and realizes he is using the dark side. He steps back, turns off his lightsaber, and relaxes, driving the hate from his being.

VADER: "Obi-Wan has taught you well."

LUKE: "I will not fight you, father.

Vader walks back up the stairs to Luke.

VADER: "You are unwise to lower your defenses."

Vader attacks, forcing Luke on the defensive. The young Jedi leaps in an amazing reverse flip up to the safety of the catwalk overhead. Vader stands below him.

LUKE: "Your thoughts betray you, father. I feel the good in you...the conflict."

VADER: "There is no conflict."

LUKE: "You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before, and I don't believe you'll destroy me now."

VADER: "You underestimate the power of the dark side. If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny."

Vader throws the laser sword and it cuts through the supports holding the catwalk, then returns to Vader's hand. Luke tumbles to the ground in a shower of sparks and rolls out of sight under the Emperor's platform. Vader moves to find him.

EMPEROR (laughs): "Good. Good."

...

Vader stalks the low-ceilinged area on the level below the throne, searching for Luke in the semi-darkness, his lightsaber held ready.

VADER: "You cannot hide forever, Luke."

LUKE: "I will not fight you."

VADER: "Give yourself to the dark side. It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for..."

Vader stops and senses something. Luke shuts his eyes tightly, in anguish.

VADER: "Sister! So...you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will."

LUKE: "Never-r-r!"

Luke ignites his lightsaber and screams in anger, rushing at his father with a frenzy we have not seen before. Sparks fly as Luke and Vader fight in the cramped area. Luke's hatred forces Vader to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his father further toward defeat.

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased agitation.

EMPEROR: "Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!"

Luke looks at his father's mechanical hand, then to his own mechanical, black-gloved hand, and realizes how much he is becoming like his father. He makes the decision for which he has spent a lifetime in preparation. Luke steps back and hurls his lightsaber away.

LUKE: "Never! I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

The Emperor's glee turns to rage.

EMPEROR: "So be it...Jedi."

...

Luke stands still, as the Emperor reaches the bottom of the stairs. The Emperor's laughter has turned to anger. He raises his arms toward Luke.

EMPEROR: "If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed."

Blinding bolts of energy, evil lightning, shoot from the Emperor's hands at Luke. Even in his surprise, the young Jedi tries to use the Force to deflect them. At first he is half successful, but after a moment the bolts of energy are coming with such speed and power the young Jedi shrinks before them, his knees buckling. The wounded Vader struggles to his feet, and moves to stand at his master's side.

EMPEROR: "Young fool...only now, at the end, do you understand."

Luke is almost unconscious beneath the continuing assault of the Emperor's lightning. He clutches a canister to keep from falling into the bottomless shaft as the bolts tear through him.

EMPEROR: "Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid the price for your lack of vision."

Luke writhes on the floor in unbearable pain, reaching weakly up toward where Vader stands watching.

LUKE (groans): "Father, please. Help me."

Again Vader stands, watching Luke. He looks at his master, the Emperor, then back to Luke on the floor.

EMPEROR: "Now, young Skywalker...you will die."

Although it would not have seemed possible, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increases in intensity, the sound screaming through the room. Luke's body writhes in pain.

Vader grabs the Emperor from behind, fighting for control of the robed figure despite the Dark Lord's weakened body and gravely weakened arm. The Emperor struggles in his embrace, his bolt-shooting hands now lifted high, away from Luke. Now the white lightning arcs back to strike at Vader. He stumbles with his load as the sparks rain off his helmet and flow down over his black cape. He holds his evil master high over his head and walks to the edge of the abyss at the central core of the throne room. With one final burst of his once awesome strength, Darth Vader hurls the Emperor's body into the bottomless shaft.

The Emperor's body spins helplessly into the void, arcing as it falls into the abyss. Finally, when the body is far down the shaft, it explodes, creating a rush of air through the room. Vader's cape is whipped by the wind and he staggers, and collapses toward the bottomless hole. Luke crawls to his father's side and pulls him away from the edge of the abyss to safety. Both the young Jedi and the giant warrior are too weak to move.

Return of the Jedi script

Both those G-Canon Sources I posted Says Luke used The Darkside to fight Vader. I highlighted them so you would see. We are talking about this because you are being Inconsistent with your logic, and therefore being a Hypocrite.

You have no Problem saying Anakin Used the Darkside to lol Stomp Dooku, but you are unwilling to say the same for Vader vs Luke. Only speaking for this because if I had not Said anything about it you wouldn't even say a word about it and have people believe that Luke with Training Alone equaled Vader which isn't True.

Stop Being so hypocritical and be inconsistent with your logic and Arguments. ROTJ Luke+Darkside Amp=Vader.

Luke was beaten by Casual force Lighting from Sidious. while it was stated in G-canon that Vader tanked the Full potent power of Sidious force lighting while Weaken.

saying it the same is False Equivalency.

Avatar image for shioz
Shioz

6

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Vader solo. Dooku could give Plagueis a good fight.

Avatar image for g_race
G_Race

379

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mygod000: I did say he used dark emotions... wtf man can you read? Just look at my posts. Any fight by anyone requires emotions...........

Luke fought as Vader’s equal. It’s stupid, but it’s true. Equal is equal.

They both got pretty messed up by lightning. Vader’s cybernetic grip was the reason he survived long enough to throw Sheev down the shaft. The lightning did its part.

Also @erkan12. Piss off with your god damn scan. It’s still Dooku over Maul. Everyone has covered this over and over. *just get it Kanye*...

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#179  Edited By MyGod000

@g_race said:

@mygod000: I did say he used dark emotions... wtf man can you read? Just look at my posts. Any fight by anyone requires emotions...........

Luke fought as Vader’s equal. It’s stupid, but it’s true. Equal is equal.

They both got pretty messed up by lightning. Vader’s cybernetic grip was the reason he survived long enough to throw Sheev down the shaft. The lightning did its part.

Also @erkan12. Piss off with your god damn scan. It’s still Dooku over Maul. Everyone has covered this over and over. *just get it Kanye*...

You never mentioned it until I said something about. Don't Backtrack on me now, man up about it that you tried to be underhanded in the debate. Like I said Vader got "fucked" up by Sidious Full power Force Lighting Luke Got "Fucked" by Sidious casual Force lighting.

This is stated in G-canon so why are you trying to downplay it like Luke took the full brunt of the force light Like Vader?

That isn't my point...My point is while Luke could Do Nothing Vader was strong enough to tank the force Lighting while Weakened and Kill Sidious. That is Something Luke couldn't do at all, he took on small Dose of it and Dropped to the ground in pain while Vader ignored the Pain and killed Sidious.

that pretty much proves that Vader was pretty much above a non-amp Luke by a lot.

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#180  Edited By Erkan12

@g_race said:

Also @erkan12. Piss off with your god damn scan. It’s still Dooku over Maul. Everyone has covered this over and over. *just get it Kanye*...

Oh another new guy that I've blocked. I didn't see the notification.

''Everyone'' :)) that reminds me this guy;

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-maul-vs-count-dooku-748956/?page=16

@erkan12 said:

You want to refresh your memory?

@lichvanastrea said:
@erkan12 said:.

How the hell you can ''debunk'' a list? :)) It's not a theory or an argument? It's a canon list.

A list that no one but you takes seriously.

@lichvanastrea said:

You're one to talk about bias. And yes, you're not the only one. Another person who carries the same asinine logic as you is using it too. I'm pretty many users in the past have told you to stop taking that list seriously.

And then;

@erkan12 said:
@lichvanastrea said:

Like I said, you and Erkan are the only people that take that list seriously.

Stop lying.

@redheathen said:

It's not one. It is many, and the only supposed official anything that the list haters have come up with is Matt Martin's statement, which Martin has now said is personal opinion and not valid. I've given MANY official links and official statements on the book's and list's canonicity, which is what actually got Martin to publicly state that his opinion is nothing more than opinion and not official, and he went further and said that what i said was "completely true." what i said was all sourced from interviews such as with kathleen kennedy, and links to things such as stuff bray and chee and others have said, including the liveblog link on sw dot com, which i also got matt martin to publicly state was an official and legit page.

so please,

  1. tell me again how the list has been debunked,
  2. how i only had one statement,
  3. who exactly debunked it across the board, and
  4. what board, specifically, was it debunked across?
  5. i did. my counter was enough to turn matt martin to say that what all i said, which i shared on here a couple times, as being "completely true,", but you guys just don't want to accept it, which
  6. is the very illustration of not only bias, but confirmation bias. you are flat out ignoring all the official pieces of sourcing that i provided, more than once, on this forum.

You can lol and say Post Prime Maul all you want, but he is still Maul at a time that was post TPM, which means he was canonically stronger, thus giving greater merit that Maul > Dooku as of Rebels. Maul's prime was at least TCW, which places him post TPM, when Maul was on tier with Tyranus.

@gaoron said:

If offcial source says Vader is better then it must be true..

@rgr said:

Hard to say for sure, but for now, most evidence seems to back Darth Vader:

1. As has been said, Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know ranks Vader above Sidious as a lightsaber wielder. The list is crearly in order, since it depicts numbers. It also seems to be based on combat prowess, since the descriptions refer to it instead of fame (also, there’s no Kylo Ren on the list, even though the book depicts him in the same page).

The sourcebook has been updated without the Story Group changing this ranking the second time it was published, and Leland Chee himself has said that, as far as the Holocron database is concerned, he categorizes info from the sourcebook as canon: https://twitter.com/Holocronkeeper/status/832028228885704704

@bigg_z said:

Proud Vader voter here.

Don't get too bent out of shape because he is > Sidious both in the minds of the officials and the public.

Avatar image for lichvanastrea
LichVanAstrea

2362

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@erkan12 I don't know why you tagged me, unless you legit want to start up more drama.

Dooku beats Maul still, btw.

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#183  Edited By Erkan12

@countdookufan77 said:
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Dooku is more powerful than Maul, friends.

Sorry, those are outdated and old sources, (similar to the ones that says Maul wasn't a true sith lord and he wasn't a loss to Sidious)

Try to new and the updated ones;

No Caption Provided

--- Source: Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know (2015)

No Caption Provided

Sidious : ''Darth Maul was a loss, but Darth Tyranus... He was a proton torpedo.''

Source: Darth Vader #20 (2016)

Dooku : ''I foresee we will do great things together, I shall teach you the ways of the Dark Side. Soon, your powers will rival that of the Great Sith Lord Darth Maul.''

Source: The Clone Wars: Season 3 Episode 13 (2011)

Maul: ''You're Dooku... The Jedi betrayer? I've heard much of you since my rebirth. I expected... more.''

Source: Son of Dathomir (2014)

Avatar image for lord_tenebrous
Lord_Tenebrous

3115

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

As per the description, this is a battle with the legends versions of these characters, canon material is allowed but not final. The "new and updated" fanon that is constantly spammed has little to no bearing here.

OT: Plagueis is individually superior to any of these, but Dooku alone is Yoda-tier and would prove an exceptional challenge. Adding a prime Vader (ROTJ in legends, NOT contradicted by Lucas' statements) + a prime Maul (TPM, not TCW, as per Lucas' own rules regarding injuries and loss of power) closes the gap and makes this a win for the trio every time.

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#185  Edited By MyGod000

All these logical fallacies in here. The only thing Vader can't do is those Acrobatic that Anakin was known for, He will never be able to do that again because of his suit. he Still was able to tank Sidious Force lighting a far stronger one at that, who by this time is way beyond Plagueis even Lowballed Sidious is. he is Clearly more powerful otherwise he would have never been able to kill Sidious or touch him in the first place because of Force Light being far too strong.

It doesn't matter how you downplay Vader he still tanked Sidious Force Lighting who was at least 2 decades more powerful than ROTS Sidious; not only that he managed to kill him as well.

If he is on Ventress level like everyone is trying to imply then he would have died instantly from Sidious before he could even throw him off that rail. He did this while Weakened.

Avatar image for lord_tenebrous
Lord_Tenebrous

3115

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mygod000:

Vader is definitely on another level from Ventress but he tanked nothing. He became Anakin Skywalker in that moment and still died. That's not a regular Vader, he was massively amped.

Avatar image for hey_thatsmildlyadequate
Hey_Thatsmildlyadequate

1963

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Plagueis with his rockin 1 combat feat against some rando assassins

Avatar image for mygod000
MyGod000

1783

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mygod000:

Vader is definitely on another level from Ventress but he tanked nothing. He became Anakin Skywalker in that moment and still died. That's not a regular Vader, he was massively amped.

He wasn't massively amped because it was stated that he was at his weakest still after the amp.

Avatar image for krleavenger
KrleAvenger

26351

Forum Posts

63045

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 114

Well, I'm glad this thread turned out to be successful and active as it is. I just find it funny how it went from Plagueis vs. Team to how powerful is Darth Vader lol. Although I am not sure why so many people are using Canon sources preferably when I already established that these are Legends versions. Canon sources are allowed here only as a back-up, mostly due to Darth Maul.

Avatar image for kitfisto98
KitFisto98

12

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Plagueis wins mid difficulty.

Avatar image for g_race
G_Race

379

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for intrp1d
Intrp1d

149

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Pretty depressing thread, if nothing else due to Erkan's continued presence, and people called KitFisto98 giving Plagueis the win.

No, the Muun gets his shit pushed in. Hard.

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#195  Edited By Erkan12

@intrp1d said:

Pretty depressing thread, if nothing else due to Erkan's continued presence, and people called KitFisto98 giving Plagueis the win.

No, the Muun gets his shit pushed in. Hard.

I think people wouldn't care about what you feel, especially considering your current status. I for one an old member of this site don't even know who you are, and not sure why you are acting like you know me.

Perhaps you should try to explain why Plagueis can't even win this instead of mocking other people. I said Plagueis loses, but it's not like it's impossible for him to win in here.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
YousufKhan1212

2479

Forum Posts

66

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@erkan12 said:
@intrp1d said:

Pretty depressing thread, if nothing else due to Erkan's continued presence, and people called KitFisto98 giving Plagueis the win.

No, the Muun gets his shit pushed in. Hard.

I think people wouldn't care about what you feel, especially considering your current status. I for one an old member of this site don't even know who you are, and not sure why you are acting like as if you know me.

Perhaps you should try to explain why Plagueis can't even win this instead of mocking other people. I said Plagueis loses, but it's not like it's impossible for him to win in here.

No Caption Provided

KEK. You just said that with a Thanos avatar. I'm probably the only one who's going to find that funny.

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Avatar image for kitfisto98
KitFisto98

12

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Plagueis trashes these clowns lol. Get it together.

Avatar image for erkan12
Erkan12

10026

Forum Posts

736

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#200  Edited By Erkan12

^^

First you need to apologize for insulting me even though you're new here,

Secondly, you should apologize again for saying ''everyone'' ignores the top 5 red lightsaber users list, I just showed that it's not true.

The new sources made it clear that Maul is more skilled than Dooku as a lightsaber user, like it or not. Using outdated and old sources won't get you anywhere. It's no different than saying Maul wasn't a Sith lord and he wasn't a loss to Sidious (some old and legends sources states that), a lot of changes happened since Maul's revival in the new canon. Not only that we've seen Dooku's weaknesses to the different lightsaber styles (such as Savage Opress and Quinlan Vos) better thanks to the new canon, old sources didn't even know that, so it's only natural that they view Dooku more powerful than he essentially was due to the lack of enough materials.

Btw what happened to the countdookufan77's messages? It seems deleted. Is that a fake account?