Darth Plagueis vs. Palpatine's Apprentices

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KrleAvenger

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Darth Plagueis

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Darth Maul, Darth Vader & Darth Tyranus

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Scenario and Rules.

  • In Character (Morals On/Off Depending on the character)
  • Everyone has standard knowledge on one another.
  • No Prep Time or Amps. No Battle Field Removal (BFR).
  • Expanded Universe/Legends versions with Disney Canon material allowed.
  • All 4 of them are in their prime (Novel, TCW, RoTJ, RoTS).
  • Average Teamwork.
  • Win by Death/Incap/KO.

Rounds

  • Lightsabers only.
  • Force Powers only.
  • Regular/all out fight.

Location

Black is Plagueis, Red is Maul, Blue is Vader and Purple is Dooku
Black is Plagueis, Red is Maul, Blue is Vader and Purple is Dooku

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IdrisianGraecus

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Plagueis wins. Plagueis is the 4th or 5th most powerful Sith, only behind the likes of Sidious, Darish Vol, Sarasu Taalon, and is an equal or inferior to Valkorion. Vader is around 6 or 7 & Maul and Dooku are around 11 and 12.

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HellfireUnit

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Can go either way. He oneshots Maul but Vader combined with Dooku is an extremely hard challenge. If he wins, it should be in an insanely hard match. However Plagueis would take them all in 1v1.

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HitTheAssasin

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Plagueis should lose handily, he can't keep up with these guys featwise.

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Richard96

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Plagueis gets stomped.

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decaf_wizard

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Plaggy is overrated, and he cant take eveyone here

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KingofBlades1

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Team takes it with Dooku carrying. Plagueis beats any of them 1v1 though.

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Hypnos0929

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Team. Was Plagueis even a fighter? I mean I know he could fight and teach everyone here a few things but wasn't it stated he hated lightsaber combat? On topic though, I can't see him winning. How fast is He, reaction speed wise?

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KingofBlades1

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@hypnos0929: Tenebrous a fanatic duelist called plagueis a master lightsaber duelist. He also defeated Darth Venamis in lightsaber combat despite Venamis having been trained specifically to counter Plagueis's form.

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MyGod000

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Vader carries the team.

the fact that Vader>>TPM Sidious who Killed Plagueis is enough.

Plagueis and His master were not good at lightsaber duels...that alone is enough for either of them to beat him with a blade. His force Powers is a force to be reckoned with, Vader isn't getting Rag Dolled by Plagueis TK his Force lighting isn't even on Sidious Force Lighting at all so Vader tank him or blocks him with his light saber.

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PayneInTheAss

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Team

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: bruh have you read the darth plagueis novel? Sidious killed Plagueis by ambushing him while he was drunk and sleeping. TPM Sidious more or less~Plagueis. The same book calls plagueis a master lightsaber duelist. So I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Plagueis is a bad duelist. And despite your Vader wank, GL says Vader is~to Obi Wan.If he says it its true, like it or not. So unless you're willing to claim Ben Kenobi is >tpm sidious, Plagueis crushes him.

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MyGod000

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#14  Edited By MyGod000

@kingofblades1 said:

@mygod000: bruh have you read the darth plagueis novel? Sidious killed Plagueis by ambushing him while he was drunk and sleeping. TPM Sidious more or less~Plagueis. The same book calls plagueis a master lightsaber duelist. So I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Plagueis is a bad duelist. And despite your Vader wank, GL says Vader is~to Obi Wan.If he says it its true, like it or not. So unless you're willing to claim Ben Kenobi is >tpm sidious, Plagueis crushes him.

Plagueis doesn't even light Lightsabers, the Novels even say that about him that he views them as below someone of his level.

Vader wins. He is still way above TPM Sidious who killed Plagueis. let not do this here, he is not Sidious or anything on Sidious level. Vader can tank Force Lighting From Sidious while Weakened...I am sure he can handle anything Plagueis Throws at him who is of a far less degree then Sidious.

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SocaJunkie

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CaptOf501st

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My knowledge on Plagueis is limited, I haven’t read books or comics, I just know stuff from videos I’ve seen on YouTube, as far as I know from implied feats and implied power Plagueis would win mid difficulty but by feats team wins mid-high difficulty, if I’m way off someone feel free to let me know

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: Sidious is also stated to not like lightsabers. Doesn't stop him from being a top 5 duelist in the mythos

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: Sidious is also stated to not like lightsabers. Doesn't stop him from being a top 5 duelist in the mythos

Okay...But what does that have to do with Plagueis who isn't in that top 5? Just because Sidious is top 5 blade duelist doesn't mean Plagueis is or should be in that same ranking.

He is no Sidious.

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KingofBlades1

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#19  Edited By KingofBlades1

@mygod000: my point was that whether someone likes lightsaber combat is irrelevant towards their skill level. There are zero sources implying Plagueis is bad at lightsaber combat. Him not liking dueling is irrelevant.

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dark_globe

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#20  Edited By dark_globe

plagueis can´t take them all .
he gets stomped in sabers .
3 of them combined also overwhelm him in force powers as well .

he can beat any of them 1v1 though .

also i don´t consider RoTJ vader to be his prime ,
for me it´s KF vader who could possibly solo plagueis .

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dark_globe

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#21  Edited By dark_globe

@mygod000: sidious did not take out plagueis in a fair fight though .
so him killing his master while plagueis was drunk and sleeping doesn´t say much .
it only says sidious is still kinda affraid of his master and
he is not sure how a straight up fight between them would go .

so RoTJ vader being stronger than TPM sidious doesn´t automatically mean he is also stronger than plagueis .

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MyGod000

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#22  Edited By MyGod000

@dark_globe said:

@mygod000: sidious did not take out plagueis in a fair fight though .

so him killing his master while plagueis was drunk and sleeping doesn´t say much .

it only says sidious is still kinda affraid of his master and he is not sure how a straight up fight between them would go .

do you know what you did? you described a Sith, that is what they do they find a way to kill their master then Surpass him after he is dead.

ROTJ Vader is Vader at his best, he said he is. Saying Vader doesn't know his own power is kinda stupid.

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: But the fact that Plagueis was asleep and drunk when palpatine attacked him means that we cannot use this as a measure of whether TPM Sidious>Plagueis

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the_wspanialy

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#24  Edited By the_wspanialy

@kingofblades1 said:

@hypnos0929: Tenebrous a fanatic duelist called plagueis a master lightsaber duelist. He also defeated Darth Venamis in lightsaber combat despite Venamis having been trained specifically to counter Plagueis's form.

Tenebrous being "a combat enthusiast" (not "a fanatic duelist") doesn't mean much tbh. Due to the secretive nature of The Rule of Two, his dueling experience was limited to sparring sessions with his master (who is a complete unknown in terms of combat), Plagueis and Venamis. There's also a fact that Tenebrous, by his own admission, practically didn't train Plagueis at all (which reflects poorly both on Plagueis and Venamis' ability to counter PLagueis' technique), which makes his claim about Plagueis dubious at best. RoT scaling puts him above Bane and Zannah as a swordsman, but we don't know by how much (and it's not like being better than Bane means a lot).

OT, team wins. Plagueis is more powerful than either of them, but he isn't stomping all three of them in the Force, and he's completely outclassed as a swordsman.

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MyGod000

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#25  Edited By MyGod000

@kingofblades1 said:

@mygod000: But the fact that Plagueis was asleep and drunk when palpatine attacked him means that we cannot use this as a measure of whether TPM Sidious>Plagueis

SMH.........you just love to exaggerate things, do you?

That how Sith works buddy, they kill their master in an underhanded way then they surpass their master because they learn what he learned.

Vader still being much much more powerful than TPM Sidious is too much for Plaggy. he might even shit himself just seeing Vader.

Not only that Vader suit can tank Saber attacks, so that just not good for plaggy, but only death will he find if he picks up a light saber.

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dark_globe

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@mygod000: But the fact that Plagueis was asleep and drunk when palpatine attacked him means that we cannot use this as a measure of whether TPM Sidious>Plagueis

thanks . my point exactly .

vader also speculates he can feel where his power was before mustafar but he can´t touch it anymore .
fact is KF vader could challenge the emperor on his own (he would lose but he has the potential to surpass him) .
RoTJ vader constantly seeks allies because he can´t hope to defeat sidious on his own .

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MyGod000

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@kingofblades1 said:

@mygod000: But the fact that Plagueis was asleep and drunk when palpatine attacked him means that we cannot use this as a measure of whether TPM Sidious>Plagueis

thanks . my point exactly .

vader also speculates he can feel where his power was before mustafar but he can´t touch it anymore .

fact is KF vader could challenge the emperor on his own (he would lose but he has the potential to surpass him) .

RoTJ vader constantly seeks allies because he can´t hope to defeat sidious on his own .

Vader already proclaimed his power to be at his highest it ever been in ROTJ.

that Put him above Mustafar Vader, ofc he would need allies to kill his master who has a switch that can turn him off anytime he needs to and the fact that Sidious Suppressed him to make him weaker should tell you that.

Regardless of those ROTJ Vader>Mustafar Vader. the reason he needs help against his master is that the suit weakness to force lighting and it failing because of the life support system turning off.

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: Bruh are you dense? Fights that we discuss here are circumstance free. We discuss(unless specified otherwise) what would happen if people fought a fair fight on neutral ground. Sidious killing Plagueis the way he did was the most circumstantial "fight" in SW history. When we say is "X" stronger than "Y" we can only answer that if the fight is on neutral ground circumstance free. That is why we cannot use Sidious's murder of Plagueis to determine if he's more powerful.

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: also if you're gonna take RotJ Vader's opinion of himself as fact then RotJ Vader >mortis anakin.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: Bruh are you dense? Fights that we discuss here are circumstance free. We discuss(unless specified otherwise) what would happen if people fought a fair fight on neutral ground. Sidious killing Plagueis the way he did was the most circumstantial "fight" in SW history. When we say is "X" stronger than "Y" we can only answer that if the fight is on neutral ground circumstance free. That is why we cannot use Sidious's murder of Plagueis to determine if he's more powerful.

I mean you say the same thing about Vader killing his master but the difference here is Vader Tanked his Master's attack before he killed him. so we can say they are relativistic because of that.

You acting like you new to this...sith does that it's their job to find a way to kill their master and take the power that they have by any means necessary. Good Gosh, you would fail as a sith, you focus on the wrong things.

SMH

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dark_globe

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#31  Edited By dark_globe

@mygod000:

RoTJ vader is not "much much more powerful" than TPM sidious .

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MyGod000

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@mygod000:

RoTJ vader is not "much much more powerful" than TPM sidious .

he is much more powerful...to the point ROTJ Sidious saw him as a threat. No way is Sidious Seeing His TPM self as a threat when he is like 40 years More powerful.

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KingofBlades1

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dark_globe

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#34  Edited By dark_globe

@mygod000 said:
@dark_globe said:

@mygod000:

RoTJ vader is not "much much more powerful" than TPM sidious .

he is much more powerful...to the point ROTJ Sidious saw him as a threat. No way is Sidious Seeing His TPM self as a threat when he is like 40 years More powerful.

.

he is not . if he would be that would mean he is at least equal to RoTS sidious , slightly better than yoda and windu and convincingly better than plagueis which he isn´t and lots of people in this thread alone already told you plagueis could beat either of the trio in 1v1 which includes RoTJ vader .

KF vader on the other hand might have a shot against plagueis .

you can just create a thread KF vader VS RoTJ vader and see what happens .

also take into consideration that in his heart sidious was always a coward .
of course he took precautions against vader so there is zero chance for vader to think of a betrayal .

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HellfireUnit

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#35  Edited By HellfireUnit

TPM Sidious > Plagueis? What in the actual fuck?

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HellfireUnit

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#36  Edited By HellfireUnit

Also no way KF Vader > Post ANH Vader. KF Vader is one of the most overrated characters on CV. Plagueis stomps KF Vader and takes RotJ Vader in an excellent fight.

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KingofBlades1

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@hellfireunit: That isn't close to the level of cancer that is RotJ Vader>>TPM Sidious

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HellfireUnit

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#38  Edited By HellfireUnit

@kingofblades1: Ugh... TPM Palp also takes Vader down, lol. MyGod wanking Vader to God level once again. Not a surprise to be sure but an unwelcome one.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000 said:
@dark_globe said:

@mygod000:

RoTJ vader is not "much much more powerful" than TPM sidious .

he is much more powerful...to the point ROTJ Sidious saw him as a threat. No way is Sidious Seeing His TPM self as a threat when he is like 40 years More powerful.

.

he is not . if he would be that would mean he is at least equal to RoTS sidious , slightly better than yoda and windu and convincingly better than plagueis which he isn´t and lots of people in this thread alone already told you plagueis could beat either of the trio in 1v1 which includes RoTJ vader .

KF vader on the other hand might have a shot against plagueis .

you can just create a thread KF vader VS RoTJ vader and see what happens .

also take into consideration that in his heart sidious was always a coward .

of course he took precautions against vader so there is zero chance for vader to think of a betrayal .

He is more powerful than KF Vader.

Lord Vader did not mind waiting, though, nor was he even aware of it. For it was an honor, and a noble activity, to kneel at his ruler's feet. He kept his eyes inward, seeking reflection in his own bottomless core. His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor. He felt engorged with this power; it surged like black fire, demon electrons looking for ground ... but he would wait. For his Emperor was not ready; and his son was not ready, and the time was not yet. So he waited.

Return of the Jedi

Stop Wanking Anakin...I love him too but he just can't do it. ROTJ Vader beat him.

Vader in Force unleash was Rag dolling Yoda Tier Force users.

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MyGod000

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@hellfireunit: That isn't close to the level of cancer that is RotJ Vader>>TPM Sidious

why are you crying about it? TPM Sidious isn't 80% of ROTJ Sidious.

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Masma94

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Sorry but what do KF and TPM mean ?

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dark_globe

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#42  Edited By dark_globe

@mygod000:

i will give you another perspective on this .
RoTS dooku vs RoTJ vader would be very close fight ,
too close to call for most debaters and it would be a split decision in the end .

whereas anakin after turning dark and become KF vader absolutelly wrecks dooku .

RoTJ vader might be more elegant , more experienced fighter and more knowledgeble in the force but he lacks stamina , speed , mobility , ferocity and raw power of his former self , he would not be able to create same momentum in a duel agaist dooku as anakin did with his power strikes which exhausted the count in the end

RoTS anakin going dark would do the same thing to RoTJ vader as he did with dooku , he would exhaust him .
RoTJ luke is nowhere near RoTS anakin level and he managed to beat vader after getting angry
(yes i know vader was perhaps holding back against his son) .

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: stop ignoring my question. Is RotJ Vader>mortis anakin?

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KingofBlades1

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@masma94: Vader as of Operation Knightfall and The Phantom Menace

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Masma94

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: i will give you another perspective on this .

RoTS dooku vs RoTJ vader would be very close fight ,

too close to call for most debaters and it would be a split decision in the end .

whereas anakin after turning dark and become KF vader absolutelly wrecks dooku .

RoTJ vader might be more elegant , more experienced fighter and more knowledgeble in the force but he lacks stamina , ferocity and raw power of his former self , he would not be able to create same momentum in a duel agaist dooku as anakin did with his power strikes which exhausted the count in the end

You are being kinda foolish here. You are telling me Vader is drunk and doesn't know his own power?

That like you saying "I'm stronger than I was 15 years ago" I am not going to say you are wrong, because you know yourself better than I do.

Vader would stomp the Dog piss out of Dooku.

This is a Great Representation of how a fight with Vader and Dooku would be and how it would end.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Dooku would see Vader than he would run.

ROTJ Vader>Mustafar Vader.

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KingofBlades1

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@mygod000: are you going to keep ignoring my question?

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MyGod000

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#48  Edited By MyGod000

@kingofblades1 said:

@mygod000: stop ignoring my question. Is RotJ Vader>mortis anakin?

I am Ignoring you because you literally downplay Vader in every thread. You just revived a 30-day old thread just to say Vader would lose to Dooku.

Be more objective then maybe I'll see you worth debating seriously.

Right now, you would say Vader would lose to younglings.

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dark_globe

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@mygod000 said:
@dark_globe said:

@mygod000: i will give you another perspective on this .

RoTS dooku vs RoTJ vader would be very close fight ,

too close to call for most debaters and it would be a split decision in the end .

whereas anakin after turning dark and become KF vader absolutelly wrecks dooku .

RoTJ vader might be more elegant , more experienced fighter and more knowledgeble in the force but he lacks stamina , ferocity and raw power of his former self , he would not be able to create same momentum in a duel agaist dooku as anakin did with his power strikes which exhausted the count in the end

You are being kinda foolish here. You are telling me Vader is drunk and doesn't know his own power?

That like you saying "I'm stronger than I was 15 years ago" I am not going to say you are wrong, because you know yourself better than I do.

Vader would stomp the Dog piss out of Dooku.

This is a Great Representation of how a fight with Vader and Dooku would be and how it would end.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Dooku would see Vader than he would run.

ROTJ Vader>Mustafar Vader.

no i´m telling you facts which happened on screen .
vader was not able to beat RoTJ luke (for whatever reason)
RoTS anakin>RoTJ luke
anakin turning dark in RoTS >>> RoTJ luke
RoTS dooku > RoTJ luke .
dooku was demolished by still somewhat holding back jedi anakin , not even fully dark KF vader yet .
so in fact yes RoTS dooku vs RoTJ vader would be a very close fight that could go either way by logic whether you like it or not

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MyGod000

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@mygod000 said:
@dark_globe said:

@mygod000: i will give you another perspective on this .

RoTS dooku vs RoTJ vader would be very close fight ,

too close to call for most debaters and it would be a split decision in the end .

whereas anakin after turning dark and become KF vader absolutelly wrecks dooku .

RoTJ vader might be more elegant , more experienced fighter and more knowledgeble in the force but he lacks stamina , ferocity and raw power of his former self , he would not be able to create same momentum in a duel agaist dooku as anakin did with his power strikes which exhausted the count in the end

You are being kinda foolish here. You are telling me Vader is drunk and doesn't know his own power?

That like you saying "I'm stronger than I was 15 years ago" I am not going to say you are wrong, because you know yourself better than I do.

Vader would stomp the Dog piss out of Dooku.

This is a Great Representation of how a fight with Vader and Dooku would be and how it would end.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Dooku would see Vader than he would run.

ROTJ Vader>Mustafar Vader.

no i´m telling you facts which happened on screen .

vader was not able to beat RoTJ luke (for whatever reason)

RoTS anakin>RoTJ luke

anakin turning dark in RoTS >>> RoTJ luke

RoTS dooku > RoTJ luke .

dooku was demolished by still somewhat holding back jedi anakin , not even fully dark KF vader yet .

so in fact yes RoTS dooku vs RoTJ vader would be a very close fight that could go either way by logic whether you like it or not

you are horrible at interpreting scenes. Luke in ROTJ was using the Dark side Powers to Match Vader in power.

In 2 novels it stated that Luke was using Wrathful emotions to Match his Father, and at no time in that fight did Luke fight Even with Vader without using the Dark side to help him combat him.

Sidious even at the end of the Fight told Luke that "His Hate has made him very powerful" George Lucas Stated Luke can Become what Anakin never did....So, by your own Logic If Anakin was Able to Stomp Dooku effortlessly...But Luke Couldn't Stomp Vader it means he was way above Dooku by a crap ton.