Snoke probably ragdolls him. Rey's TK is already give or take Maul's level. She has as good or better feats but he might be better through scaling off people like Obi-Wan. But Snoke made Rey look like she was nothing at all effortlessly. He might have to exert himself but he should beat him with TK or Lightning.
Snoke probably ragdolls him. Rey's TK is already give or take Maul's level. She has as good or better feats but he might be better through scaling off people like Obi-Wan. But Snoke made Rey look like she was nothing at all effortlessly. He might have to exert himself but he should beat him with TK or Lightning.
I dont agree. Obi Wan had as feats in TK than Rey on high ends. And yet Maul was TK able to mess with Obi.
Maul high end TK feat trumps Reys as well.
Dont see Snoke messing with a untrain Rey with TK as a good feat TBH.
I dont see Snoke TK dominating a highly train and powerful TK user like Maul like he had the untrain and mary sue Rey IMO.
Kylo should be able to match Maul TK wise, with Snoke several orders above them both.
The Praetorian guard, although no threat to Maul on their own, should prove significant enough of a distraction to go some way toward closing the gap in dueling prowess between Maul and Kylo, with Snoke running a TK train on Maul in the background.
Altogether, I don't see Clone Wars Maul defeating 10 opponents like this all at once. It's too much.
He was dead equal with Rey, who moved a small caves worth of boulders with seemingly minimal effort.
Maul's feat with the space shuttle probably trumps that, given he was wounded and on the move, but the difference between them shouldn't be so great that Maul would wreck him with TK.
Snoke probably ragdolls him. Rey's TK is already give or take Maul's level. She has as good or better feats but he might be better through scaling off people like Obi-Wan. But Snoke made Rey look like she was nothing at all effortlessly. He might have to exert himself but he should beat him with TK or Lightning.
I dont agree. Obi Wan had as feats in TK than Rey on high ends. And yet Maul was TK able to mess with Obi.
What feats do you think Obi-Wan has that matches Rey? The feat that was that impressive under Canon is that time he and Anakin raised a falling ship for a few seconds.
Even since Legends is no longer canon, the feats that show Maul can outright ragdoll Kenobi have been discarded. All those scans have circumstances or take place in the midst of combat when Kenobi was caught off guard. In the fist gif Maul is mentioned to have been desperate to protect Savage, and we later see that Maul is very emotional in regards his brother, since he was massively amped against Sidious offed him. So not exactly Maul's consistent emotional state. Also he seemed to outreact Kenobi rather than actually bypass a committed telekinetic attack.
Obi-Wan fights with fierce intensity, holding the brothers at bay. With a swift stroke, he cuts off Savage's left arm. The Sith apprentice collapses in pain. Maul pushes Kenobi away and brings the passageway crumbling down, desperate to defend his apprentice.
In the second scan Obi-Wan was weakened and could barely stand due to a crash, as well as being taken by surprise.
In the third scan is the most impressive but Kenobi had just been fighting both brothers so he must've been drawing on the Force heavily to match them both physically. He probably couldn't afford to put much power and attention into his telekinetic defenses.
Maul high end TK feat trumps Reys as well.
Maul was mentioned to be in a fit of rage when he performed that feat. Not exactly confirmation that he was in a full-on Force Rage but that's not his consistent emotional state either.
A blast tears apart Maul's mechanical ankle. The crippled Sith Lord is helped by his maimed apprentice. In a final fit of anger, Maul uses the Force to bring the vacant Jedi shuttle crashing down behind him, using the wreckage as cover.
I would also argue, upon seeing that feat again, that it is considerably less impressive than what I had originally thought. First off, Maul did not lift that ship, he dragged it a short distance until the collapsing support on the ship and the slope of the cliff did the rest. It is significantly easier to push something that lift it, I don't know the exact coefficients of friction between durasteel and rock but it is probably around .5 and .6, meaning Maul's feat is only equivalent to lifting around 50% to 60% of the ship's weight. It would probably take two Maul's to actually lift that ship even a short height, if you think that is a real reflection of his limits. Still impressive, but overrated.
Now let's take a look at Rey's feat.
Now the materials involved is maybe less dense considering Rey is lighting stone (which I know you know is still ridiculously heavy due to your IRL background, I've seen you say the pillar Ventress pushed off herself in 2003 Clone Wars was tens of tonnes) where Maul is pushing futuristic metal, but the ship is hollow in parts and built to be lightweight. Anyway, the total distance she moved them was far greater, she lifted them against the force of gravity and friction between the stones (whereas Maul just opposed the friction between the ship and the ground and air), she showed she could accelerate the stones quickly considering how fast she did the feat and how fast she moved them aside, she distributed her attention and power across dozens of different objects which is much harder than moving one object and the combined weight of the rocks is probably around the same of the ship Maul didn't even lift anyway. Or maybe slightly less. Definitely same ballpark though. But I also think that from Rey's facial expression that she did her feat significantly easier and she was probably weakened from being ragdolled by Snoke and pushing herself to the max with Kylo.
Dont see Snoke messing with a untrain Rey with TK as a good feat TBH.
I've seen this before, I assume you mean because Rey doesn't know how to defend herself telekinetically? Well, I would counter this by pointing out that when Rey and Kylo were struggling for the lightsaber at the end of TLJ they were both pushed back equally when ripples of energy were generated by their struggle. Also when Hux goes into the throneroom Kylo is unconscious and Rey has escaped, she was able to shield herself from the energy discharge created by the damaged lightsaber whereas he wasn't, even though his defenses have been confirmed to be immense. Yoda also mentions that Rey already has everything that the Jedi's foundational texts have to offer, which at least implies she is able to utilize the Force for basic powers like Force shields.
I dont see Snoke TK dominating a highly train and powerful TK user like Maul like he had the untrain and mary sue Rey IMO.
Rey had little formal training but she instinctively mastered using the Force based on comments from Yoda and her feats and her power is a product of the Force creating an equal opposite for Kylo. Snoke mentions this, and Luke's lesson to Rey has her explain that the Force is the balance between powerful Light and powerful Dark. Snoke knew that Kylo's strength would make it inevitable someone like Rey would be created by the Force to counterbalance Kylo. Her Mary Sue-ness is given an in-universe explanation, just like some characters like Dr. Who and John Constantine are given in-universe reasons for their plot shields. Her being untrained means little when she has the will of the Force behind her.
@alphaq: it's funny because while your pulling all these ways to counter my opinion, all I have to say is why TK Rey a good feat when she still has zero training or combat experience to counter? She had force powers for a few days and her training amounts to few good TK feats base on very not combative applications. She never shown TK shielding or counters before either.
So a better question is what feats Snoke has that match Mauls best feat with the shuttle? Who has Snoke TK in a battle with actual combat applicable force use?
@alphaq: it's funny because while your pulling all these ways to counter my opinion, all I have to say is why TK Rey a good feat when she still has zero training or combat experience to counter? She had force powers for a few days and her training amounts to few good TK feats base on very not combative applications. She never shown TK shielding or counters before either.
So a better question is what feats Snoke has that match Mauls best feat with the shuttle? Who has Snoke TK in a battle with actual combat applicable force use?
@alphaq: it's funny because while your pulling all these ways to counter my opinion, all I have to say is why TK Rey a good feat when she still has zero training or combat experience to counter? She had force powers for a few days and her training amounts to few good TK feats base on very not combative applications. She never shown TK shielding or counters before either.
So a better question is what feats Snoke has that match Mauls best feat with the shuttle? Who has Snoke TK in a battle with actual combat applicable force use?
I already explained why TK'ing Rey is a good feat. She clearly has learned to apply her telekinetic abilities to shield herself considering she equally shielded herself from the the collateral waves of force generated by her struggle with Kylo and shielded herself from the exploding lightsaber whereas he was KO'ed, during, y'know, a full-on, pure telekinetic battle. And Kylo has been mentioned to have exceptional defensive ability. Rey is at least as good at shielding herself as Kylo who can match her with TK, meaning that, if anything, her shields are better than her TK.
If you want feats, let me ask you this; what defensive TK feats does Maul have? What force users has he ever shielded himself from in a combat situation? What feats does Maul have that say he can protect himself as well as Kylo, like Rey's feats do?
@alphaq: maul has defended himself from Kenobi and Sith Inquisitors and out TK both. maul is also a better fighter and uses his own TK in fights. He is just better than Rey period in a combat situation.
I simply see no feats for Snoke outside TK Rey which you have to write a paragraph about to know it seek important.
@alphaq: maul has defended himself from Kenobi and Sith Inquisitors and out TK both. maul is also a better fighter and uses his own TK in fights. He is just better than Rey period in a combat situation.
I simply see no feats for Snoke outside TK Rey which you have to write a paragraph about to know it seek important.
I disagree.
Can you show me the specific instances where he defended himself against their TK, or even just tell me which fight they defended against their TK? I've re-watched some videos that apparently contain all their fights and Maul never once defended himself from anyone's TK in all that I have seen and remember. And it is irrelevant if Maul uses his TK better in combat, Snoke fights exclusively with the Force, and Rey was unable to counter this at all, even though she later had a full on telekinetic battle with Kylo and showed defenses at least as good.
Well, when the worst that can be said about my analysis and logic is that it's too long, I'm happy :P
That's your perogative but I fail to see how my logic can be faulted so far.
@alphaq: Snoke and your logic is all hype and assumptions for Snoke, and excuses for Rey being powerful and more in control of TK than say Maul. So its hard to say your logic is not faulty IMO.
@sirfizzwhizz: Lol, so people begin calling Rey a powerful TK, right after she barely learns about the Force and lifts some rocks to help some people. Is this for real???
Maul TK > Rey TK
Snoke is the only factor who is a problem for Maul.
So a better question is what feats Snoke has that match Mauls best feat with the shuttle?
Depends on if you think distance is a factor to the force as Snoke ragdolled Hux from out of the system. I personally think that as long as they have vision they can use the force so for me I don't think this applies, but I've seen people say Sidious choking Dooku across the galaxy is a good feat (not the choking Dooku part but the across the galaxy part).
Snoke also linked Rey and Kylo's mind across the galaxy, plus he can use force lightning which is a plus.
Who has Snoke TK in a battle with actual combat applicable force use?
Kylo Ren. He also played with Rey who was later shown to be dead even with Kylo.
@alphaq: Snoke and your logic is all hype and assumptions for Snoke, and excuses for Rey being powerful and more in control of TK than say Maul. So its hard to say your logic is not faulty IMO.
Never said that. By feats she has better defenses though. It's basically like this, Maul has no feats of protecting himself from Force attacks so purely by feats Snoke ragdolls him. But I'm actually willing to use logic and in-universe reasoning to assume Maul has powerful telekinetic defenses, whereas using logic and in-universe reasoning for the New Trilogy characters is apparently a no-no around here.
@sirfizzwhizz: But there is no proof that distance has anything to do with power. It is likely that as long as they are in contact they can use the force on them. Maybe distance plays a factor, but as of now there is no evidence of that.
@sirfizzwhizz: But there is no proof that distance has anything to do with power. It is likely that as long as they are in contact they can use the force on them. Maybe distance plays a factor, but as of now there is no evidence of that.
I've read this as "Darth Maul vs Sasuke" and the "cannon" part confused the heck out of me. Then i saw the picture and i was like "damn, Sasuke really let himself go".
@ancient_0f_days: people think kylo is powerful? he hasn't done anything. Rey shows great ability and potential, but she hasn't done much yet either. makes sense since she's new. For Kylo to struggle or be on par with her in saber fights (he didn't do that much better than her against guards) shows that Kylo is all talk, he's depicted as really really really weak, imo at least.
@jameswayne: People who know Star Wars think he’s powerful, yes.
And Rey was having struggles agaisnt one guard while Kylo was fighting three at one point and using both his lightsaber and one of their weapons at the same time. Not sure how that’s only “didn’t do much better” than her.
@thevivas: she fought two at once. and since this is only canon, aka films and tv, how in the world is he powerful, and since that's the only material that counts here, your comment about people who know star wars applies to almost anyone.
@jameswayne: She fought two at once and then struggled fighting one. Great counter for Kylo fighting three at one time, though.
See, that’s why I said “for people who know Star Wars”. Canon isn’t just the movies and tv shows. The new Canon is the movies, Rebels and Clone Wars tv shows, all novels written and published after April of 2014 (there’s a new timeline and everything) and those novels include the new visual dictionaries, all comics published after April 2014, and the starwars website. Kylo has three great accolades, one stating him to be one of the most powerful combatants in history (I view it as hyperbole) as well as having Skywalker blood which has produced the most powerful Jedi and Sith, and which is needed to defeat Luke, one of the greatest Jedi in the galaxy. Only someone with barely surface level knowledge of Star Wars (aka just seeing the movies and thinking they know abetting about the new Canon) would say he hasn’t done anything and is barely above Rey in saber fights.
So no, “people who know Star Wars” isn’t anyone. People who don’t know and lowball Star Wars, that definitely applies to almost anyone.
@thevivas: kylo struggled against the third. only thing I don't know about are the novels. so tell me, what has he done. cause last jedi had him fight three guards at once, lose to the third. rey fought two, struggled against the second. how was he going to even touch luke? compared Anakin, obi luke, dooku, yoda, sidius, maul, what has he done? in saber duels hes garbage. strong in force but struggles against rey who has his strength but no training. so what has he done?
@jameswayne: If he lost to the third guard, he would have died. So you’re wrong on that front.
How was he going to touch Luke? After training and realizing his potential, I guess. It’s specifically stated that Snoke chose him because he thought only someone with the strong bloodline of a Skywalker could defeat Luke, and the Skywalker bloodline is stated to have created the strongest Jedi and Sith.
Who cares if he doesn’t have feats that are as good as the people you list? Neither do literally 90% of the characters in SW.
He struggled agaisnt Rey because he was shot by Chewie, stabbed in the shoulder by Finn, and so emotionally hindered that Snoke described his spirit as “split to the bone”. Why even join in debates with these characters if you’re going to ignore things like context and circumstances about their feats?
@thevivas: rey saved him he was gonna lose to the third guard.
the skywalkers are not the most powerful jedi and sith, sidius is for sith and yoda is (at least current timeline for the jedi).
I'm not ignoring context. I was referring to the tug of war for the saber in tlj (which made no sense cause the pushed each other away, but if they're both pulling on on the saber, if anything, they'd get closer together). they have equal force strength but kylo has more training, I get why that would be less relevant in a tug of war type situation, but still she even got up before him.
I'm talking about the characters cause I like the world. I could just as easily ask you the same thing. How could you defend the guy when he has no feats. without them everything said about him is useless hyperbole. the reason why 90% of characters don't have those feats is cause they're not as good.
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