Darth Maul vs. Plo Koon

Maul, assuming composite feats for all....

You do know that's a 3 year + post, right? Temp won't be responding anytime soon, LAL.

Maul. Koon might have better force abilities though but he definitely get's trumped in lightsaber combat.

@llehdevil: I don't think Koon has superior Force abilities. His feats in Legends and Canon are inferior to Maul's. Plo's more esoteric abilities in Legends express knowledge of techniques that may or may not be known to Maul, but in actual power, Maul has him outclassed. In fact, by TCW, Maul was TKing Jedi of similar or superior power to Koon, like Obi-Wan.

@silver2467: Yeah, Maul is definitely out of Plo Koon's telekinetic league. Add to that that Maul has him beat in physicals and skill, and we have someone who would beat him every time.

But with respects to Legends, Maul has also exhibited several powers that Plo hasn't, so I wouldn't say that Plo is more knowledgeable in Force techniques.

@shootingnova: Indeed. My point wasn't to say that Koon alone is more knowledgeable, just that Maul may or may not be equipped with powers like Alter Environment or Electric Judgment. As you said, Maul has his own esoteric skills.

And yeah, Maul has this won. It's funny because in Shadow Hunter, Maul mused to himself that he wanted to fight one of the Order's more capable duelists, and if memory serves, the two he was thinking of were Mace Windu and Plo Koon. I don't think Koon would provide him the challenge he's eager for though. Maul's just better.

@silver2467: Fair enough.

And yeah. It does go to show that Plo is one of the forefront duelists of the PT era, but still no match for Maul.

If this is really the case, can you tell me why he couldn't have used to Force to contain TPM Obi-Wan before he sliced him in half? Just curious, I know that scene can be taken out of context many times but I'm curious to see what your answer is to that. Edit: And I believe the movies are canon along with the EU in a lot of contexts.

@llehdevil:

More or less plot.

@brightsteel: Fair enough.

Of course. Movies are the definitive and primary source.

To answer your question, the reason is just due to PIS--plot-induced surprise. Maul was busy gloating over Obi-Wan after knocking him into the reactor shaft and according to sources was too stunned to respond in time to avoid Obi-Wan's finisher.

Calming himself by calling upon the light side of the Force, Kenobi was able to surprise Maul and cleave him in half with his saber. A pained look of bewilderment crossed Maul's tattooed face as death overtook him.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

According to the TPM novelization, Obi-Wan called on the last of his reserves and expended it to perform a fast overhead leap that the complacent Maul was unprepared for. Maul's loss to Obi-Wan wasn't a result of any combative weakness on his part, just a character weakness: arrogance. He had Obi-Wan at his mercy due to his fighting skills and Force strength before then. He defeated Qui-Gon as well, who at the time was more powerful and more skillful than Obi-Wan. A duel with Plo would more resemble Maul's fights with Qui-Gon than with Obi-Wan; unless Koon can somehow overtake Maul by taking advantage of his hesitation in delivering a killing strike, he lacks the resources in a fight to win any majority.

@silver2467: Thanks a lot for the explanation.

@silver2467: No problem.

Sometimes I do this to myself too. Pats on the back make great self-compliments. :P

@llehdevil: Yeah, I don't know how I did that, to be honest. LOL.

@darkdefender: uhhuh, is that why he got tkd by ventress?

@kbroskywalker said: @darkdefender: uhhuh, is that why he got tkd by ventress?

Ventress has never tkd Maul. Could you stop creating misinformation whenever you're in a SW thread related to Maul? It's so pathetic and cringe worthy of how you low ball Maul and make up bullshit about him and constantly focus on the low ends of his feats, ignoring context and circumstances, ignoring the high ends of his feats. Whenever you're even in a Maul related thread you just low ball him.

@silver2467: opinions are opinions and i'll bump this thread as much as i want.

Maul has been stalemated by the nerfed tcw grevious, lost to kenobi with the help of his brother, lost to a battle master with a stick(skilled or not its like losing with a machine gun to a guy with a pistol), lost to post prime kenobi by three years in a legends fight(though the comic is non canon, the fight itself was mentioned in a legends grevious comic), has been tkd by ventress(who plo koon tkd), and outright admitted he couldn't take vader 1 v 1(not that plo koon could either.)

Its worth noting that maul called plo koon a worthy challenge. Note, this arrogant sob thought only mace could challenge him. Thats right maul thinks he'd beat yoda.

You know the guy who did this:

So you telling me koon is outta maul's league when even maul thinks he isn't makes me question if I'm the one who needs to stop bumping threads.

@silver2467: as if tking someone makes you more powerful...

dooku tkd anakin and kenobi tkd anakin. So obviously obi wan is out of dooku's league, right?

@kbroskywalker: Maul has been stalemated by the nerfed tcw grevious

TCW Grievous has physically stomped Obi-Wan by grabbing him by the face, bitch slapping him, throwing him around like a rag doll and Obi-Wan was forced to use his Force abilities to keep Grievous at bay.

And in another one of their countless fights in TCW (I blame Dave Filoni for that), Grievous kicked Obi-Wan so hard that Obi-Wan went flying at the ship, groaned in pain and actually injured Obi-Wan to the point he was pressing his stomach. Obi-Wan was forced to Telekinetically throw a bomb at Grievous and had help off Commander Cody who fired at the bomb to blow it up to keep Grievous at bay.

And in this fight Grievous landed a kick on Obi-Wan which knocked him out on the floor for a brief moment.

Oh and in this fight Grievous physically dominated Obi-Wan again by grabbing hold of him and throw him on the floor like a bitch.

All this happened in TCW...

lost to kenobi with the help of his brother

Obi-Wan only managed to beat Maul and Savage because he had circumstancial advantages over them which you fail to comprehend, without those circumstancial advantages, Obi-Wan had no hope of actually beating them both and. Stop bringing that up and ignoring the context and circumstances of the Skirmish off Florrum, I dedicated an entire blog explaining what was happening in that Episode such as the context and the circumtances, that's a fact that cannot be denied.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/yousufkhan1212/blog/darth-maul-and-savage-opress-vs-obi-wan-kenobi-and/127096/

But you're too ignorant, biased and stubborn to accept the fact that Obi-Wan had circumstancial advantages over Maul and Savage, so stop using that as a trump card and face the facts. DEAL WITH IT.

lost to a battle master with a stick(skilled or not its like losing with a machine gun to a guy with a pistol)

That battle master was the first Jedi Maul ever faced and it was one of the greatest Jedi warriors who ever lived, and are you really going to expect Maul to have success in his first fight with that type of Jedi when he's never even fought a Jedi before? And Maul was only in his Assassin days, still training in combat and stealth, he was NOWHERE near his TPM or TCW counter part.

Darth Maul: I could feel how deeply wrapped he was in a meditative trance. A recluse for seventy years, he ranked among the greatest Jedi warriors living. But he renounced the Lightsaber years before to concentrate on a purer technique. He seemed totally unaware of my presence. I was disappointed at the ease of the task.

Oh and the reason why Maul was defeated because that battle master was too fast for Maul to see or react to, NOT because he lacked skill.

Darth Maul: His speed was such that I barely saw the attack. I tried to focus through the pain, but to no avail. It occured to me that I should die. The price of failure. Instead I resolved to best this enemy. I fled

Oh and that Battle master's wooden stick was longer than Maul's Lightsaber, please remember that...

Darth Maul: He beat me with the simplest of movements. His weapon, a plain wooden stick, was longer than mine. He was quicker than me. It was simple to see that unless I could suprise him, he would always win. I had to get in close and strike before he had time to defend. I soon knew what to do.

And how does having a weapon - in this case a wooden stick - that is inferior to a Lightsaber - make him any less dangerous? There are countless examples of someone who's not using a Lightsaber beating up an opponent who's using a Lightsaber. In fact, I've got a good one to show you XD.

Remember when Obi-Wan fought Vizsla in TCW? Obi-Wan won that fight, but BARELY. At one point, Vizsla was disarmed and used his BARE HANDS to beat the living shit out of Obi-Wan and physically throw him to the floor. Obi-Wan was armed with a Lightsaber, whereas Vizsla was unarmed and used his BARE HANDS to knock out Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan used the Force at one point in that fight and Vizsla wasn't using his full gear. And you say Maul struggled to beat Vizsla in contrast to Obi-Wan's fight with Vizsla, claiming that Obi-Wan easily beated Vizsla...

lost to post prime kenobi by three years in a legends fight(though the comic is non canon, the fight itself was mentioned in a legends grevious comic)

Why do you keep using Old Wounds as a trump card when you low ball Maul? Obi-Wan's fight with Maul in Old Wounds is NOT a valid argument to prove your misguided views. And the Maul that's portrayed in Old Wounds is NOT TPM or TCW Maul, it's a COMPLETELY different version of Maul. THAT IS A FACT.

In that Comic, Maul hasn't even been in a Lightsaber duel for a time frame of around 16 years which is a pretty long time, and it's safe to say he's not been in a Lightsaber duel for that long because he's been stalking Obi-Wan for a long time because he wants revenge. The Phantom Menace takes place 13 years before Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars Old Wounds takes place 3 years after Revenge of the Sith. 13 + 3 = 16.

Old Wounds was a Star Wars story written in 2005, anything that happens in TCW doesn't apply to Old Wounds, so don't bring anything from TCW when you talk about Old Wounds. And because of Maul's lack of experience in Lightsaber combat in this story, he lost because Obi-Wan changed his Lightsaber fighting style to a different Form which Maul isn't familiar with, Obi-Wan at this point has far more experience in Lightsaber combat than Maul does in this story. And on top of all that, Maul didn't get used to Lightsaber combat because he hasn't done it for years in this story, it's similar to when you decide to play a sport which you've not played for a long time and you're not so good at it any more because you haven't practiced it properly or done a warm up. That's basically what Maul and Obi-Wan's rematch in this story is, Maul decided to challenge Obi-Wan in a Lightsaber duel when he hasn't been practicing or got used to it properly whereas Obi-Wan has been in more Light Saber duels far more recently and he's more used to it. However Obi-Wan hasn't been in a Light Saber duel for 3 years but that's not EVEN 1 fifth of the amount of time Maul hasn't been in a Lightsaber duel for. But Maul was still capable of getting a few hits on Obi-Wan despite his lack of practise in Lightsaber combat after The Phantom Menace. Now let me bring up TCW. Maul's first pair mechanical legs was inspired by the Old Wounds deisgn but they were replaced in Season 5 with more Human looking mechanical legs, and the only other similarity that TCW and OW Maul share is that they have mechanical legs and want revenge on Obi-Wan. That's LITERALLY the only things they have in common, unless if you want to be a smart ass and say they're both Zabracks, Sith Lords, have tattoos etc. But in character similarities, they only share the similarities I mentioned. OW Maul is NOT the exact same version of TPM or TCW Maul. THAT IS A FACT. Deal with it you cry baby!

has been tkd by ventress(who plo koon tkd)

No... He didn't get tkd by Ventress... This is my reaction to you saying that bullshit... I can't even take you seriously!

and outright admitted he couldn't take vader 1 v 1(not that plo koon could either.)

Stop bullshitting people with this nonsense! Maul didn't say he can't take on Vader alone, he said he can't DEFEAT Vader alone! Why do you constantly spout out so much lies, misinformation, bullshit and utter nonsense when you're in a Maul related thread! This lie you repeatedly use is so laughable beyond comprehension that you actually amuse me, why? Because it makes you look so desparate in your attempts to low ball Maul. I've already gone through this subject with you before and you haven't even learned from this mistake. Any way, here's a video what Maul actually said in Season 2 Finale of Rebels that is CONCRETE, IRREFUTABLE, FACTUAL proof that you're horrible mistaken... And a pathetic liar.

Ahsoka Tano: Why are you working so hard to keep us here?

Darth Maul: I cannot defeat Vader alone.

Its worth noting that maul called plo koon a worthy challenge.

So? That doesn't mean Plo Koon will beat Maul, it just because Plo Koon can challenge Maul in a fight.

Note, this arrogant sob thought only mace could challenge him. Thats right maul thinks he'd beat yoda.

You know the guy who did this:

Give me a Source that says Maul thinks he can beat Yoda. And even if there's an actual Source, that's just a sign of Maul being arrogant, that's literally it!

as if tking someone makes you more powerful...

dooku tkd anakin and kenobi tkd anakin. So obviously obi wan is out of dooku's league, right?

The situations where Obi-Wan tked Anakin don't count because Anakin was either distracted or caught off guard. Such as in this situation where Obi-Wan saves Anakin who was blindely running into an explosion, there's no evidence that Anakin was even trying to resist Obi-Wan's Force push.

And in this situation Obi-Wan tkd Anakin was because Anakin was clearly caught off guard because he focused on killing Ventress.

Anakin: I killed you once. Do you want to die a second time?

Ventress: This time the outcome will be different!

Obi-Wan: ANAKIN! NO!

Anakin: What are you doing?

Oh and in the situation where Obi-Wan and Anakin stalemated in a Telekinetic battle on Mustafar doesn't count either.

Obi-Wan isn't as powerful as Anakin as a Force user in ROTS, Anakin was mentally hindered because he couldn't control his emotions due to suffering from emotional trauma. Anakin is vastly more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force has much better feats in Telekinesis than Obi-Wan has, Anakin has used the Force to hurl boulders the size of huts, manipulating Conqueror-class dreadnaughts and more, Obi-Wan isn't capable of using Telekinesis on that level. The reason why Anakin and Obi-Wan's Telekinetic battle resulted in a stalemate was because Anakin was mentally hindered because he couldn't control his emotions, Anakin's mind was unclear and clouded by hate, fear, pride and arrogance which affected his performance. It has been supported in different Sources that Anakin was emotionally unstable because of his fears for the people he cares about. Here's a Source:

"Anakin is haunted by nightmares and fears for the people he loves. He grows less and less able to control these emotions." - Beware the Sith

Anakin was also conflicted between 2 emotional "worlds", probably because he wasn't fully succumbed to the Dark Side and felt guilty about Order 66, and because of Anakin's emotions that he couldn't control, he was vulnerable, here's a Source supporting that:

"But even Sidious hadn't foreseen Anakin's defeat by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar. Anakin had still been between worlds then, and vulnerable." - Darth Lord: The Rise of Vader

In fact other Sources have said that Anakin's lack of control over his emotions lead to his defeat on Mustafar. The same Source that said Anakin couldn't control his emotions because of his fears also said that Anakin's rage was as a weakness that Obi-Wan was aware of. Here's a quote:

"On Mustafar, the newly created Sith Lord Darh Vader attacks his former friend and Jedi Master, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Vader calls on the darkside to harness more power, but he overwhelmed by rage. Obi-Wan takes advantage of Darth Vader's weakness and defeats him." - Beware the Sith.

And it was also supported in the behind the scenes in Revenge of the Sith in "The Chosen One Featurette ", it's a 14 minute long Commentary that you can watch on YouTube. Since I've already proven that Anakin was mentally hindered because he couldn't control his emotions and that his mind was unclear due to it being clouded by hate, fear, pride and arrogance, George Lucas said in "The Chosen One" Commentary that Anakin had doubts about the Jedi and what's good and the possibility of saving Padme from death, all those thoughts caused confusion in Anakin's mind, a suitable word for that is turmoil, which George Lucas uses. Here's what George Lucas said in that commentary:

"It happens when the Emperor starts to work on him and make him doubt things, make him doubt his relationship with the Jedi, make him doubt what is good in the Universe. He throws out the possibility that he could keep his wife and save her from death. These are all seduction things, which causes a great deal of turmoil." - The Chosen One Featurette

However, Obi-Wan was also mentally hindered, but not as much as Anakin was, Obi-Wan was capable of controlling his emotions and have a clear mind unlike Anakin. Obi-Wan was fighting someone he trained for over 10 years, his relationship with Anakin was a brotherly relationship, Obi-Wan didn't want to fight Anakin, it's clearly shown when he confronts Anakin on Mustafar that he attempts to reason with him, but Obi-Wan's attempt to reason with Anakin was useless and was forced to fight him when he says "Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must". Obi-Wan still felt the emotional attachment he had for Anakin, but in the end of his duel with Anakin on Mustafar, he lets go of his emotional attachment which was said in the Revenge of the Sith Junior Novel, in that Source Obi-Wan still cared about Anakin and felt conflicted about letting go of his emotional attachment, but still did it after a long think. Here's a quote from the Revenge of the Sith Junior Novel.

"Still, the fight continued, even as the collection tower sank slowly into the lava. And still, neither man could gain an advantage. But that's not really true, Obi-Wan thought as he ducked and wove and parried. Both he and Anakin felt the anguish of their need to kill the other. But Anakin had turned to the dark side, and despair and pain strengthened the dark side. It gave him an advantage Obi-Wan could not match. Unless he let go of his own despair and the let the living Force move him -- the Force that bound all living things together, even Obi-Wan and this new, deadly, evil Anakin. It was hard. It was perhaps, the hardest thing he had ever tried to do. For in letting go of his anguish, his despair, and his pain, he would have to let go of the Anakin who was his student, his brother, and his dearest friend. He'd have to admit that this time, he could not save the man who had saved his life so many times, whose life he had saved at least as often. Obi-Wan couldn't do it. As the collection tower sank farther into the lava, he looked for a way to escape." - Revenge of the Sith Junior Novel

However in the Revenge of the Sith Novel, it was opposed, Obi-Wan had the intention of killing Anakin, he quickly left when he cut down Anakin. Here's a quote from the Revenge of the Sith Novel:

"Obi-Wan back flipped from the conduit to a coupling nexus of the main collection plant; when Anakin flew in pursuit, Obi-Wan leapt again. They spun and whirled throughout its levels, up its stairs, and across its platforms; they battled out onto the collection panels over which the cascades of lava poured, and Obi-Wan, out on the edge of the collection panel, hunching under a curve of durasteel that splashed aside gouts of lava, deflecting Force blasts and countering strikes from this creature of rage that had been his best friend, suddenly comprehended an unexpectedly profound truth. The man he faced was everything Obi-Wan had devoted his life to destroying: Murderer. Traitor. Fallen Jedi. Lord of the Sith. And here, and now, despite it all... Obi-Wan still loved him. Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked. Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment... He let it go." - Revenge of the Sith Novel.

These Sources conflict with each other and it may seem hard to decide which Source is more reliable, but I've already got an answer for that. There's another Source known as The Ultimate Visual Guide that mentioned Obi-Wan's emotional attachment for Anakin, it is unclear whether it supports the Revenge of the Sith Novel or Junior Novel, but it seems to be supporting the Junior Novel because it says Obi-Wan realised that the only way he could defeat Anakin is to let go of his emotional attachment for him, so it's suggesting that for a moment after Anakin was cut down, Obi-Wan still felt conflicted about letting go of his emotional attachment and decided to let it go after he thought about it, so therefore it's supporting the Revenge of the Sith Junior Novel. Here's a quote from The Ultimate Visual Guide.

"As every step becomes more perilous and Vader's attacks more ferocious, Obi-Wan realizes that he still cares for Anakin, and that the only way he can defeat his opponent is to let go of his feelings for his former friend. When Obi-Wan releases this emotional attachment, the battle turns for the Jedi." - Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide

And to be quite honest, I would personally think that the Revenge of the Sith Junior Novel is a more reliable Source because it would be very uncharacteristic for Obi-Wan to suddenly leave someone he considers a brother and a best friend, it doesn't sound like something Obi-Wan to would do, and to be fair, in both the Revenge of the Sith Novel and Junior Novel Obi-Wan let go of his emotional attachment for Anakin, so at least he managed to control his emotions even though it was the hardest decision he had ever faced, and he decided to let go of his emotional attachment. So regardless of which Source you go by... Obi-Wan had much more control over his emotions than Anakin did, and was thus far was less mentally hindered.

Anakin's Force abilities >>>> Obi-Wan's Force abilities.

Now stop crying and deal with the facts that you are too stubborn to accept, you're too much of an ignorant, biased, immature crybaby to even comprehend those facts.

@wollfmyth209: Actually the instance with Siolo'urmanka had been canonized(well in Legends) by the Complete Enyclopedia. The guy was among the best Jedi warriors of the time. Plus this was hardly before Maul's prime anyway.

It wouldn't be the first time one has matched blades with Maul anyway, Mighella did the same just a year before Maul went to fight Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

Not too sure why these would be considered as bad showings by Kbros though. I didn't realize that minor characters can't contend with bigger characters. It's not as cut and dry as comics are, shockingly, minor characters can be great too with their limited appearances.

@wolfrazer: Huh, I was under the impression most things from Tales are non-canon, but meh. Still, this is Maul very early in his training, so... yeah. And Mighella only clashed blades with Maul three times and got disarmed -- really, no matching there.

@wollfmyth209: Well she didn't really get disarmed, her blade just broke. So she was matching up until that point. Though overall I guess she was matching his blows and avoiding his attacks, all that.

@jashro44 Is there any rule about purposely lying ? I mean, I've seen lots of trolls in CV, but I never saw a person like that, who is intentionally lying about a certain character over and over again despite the fact that we tried to correct his mistakes plenty of times before.

The Maul wank is real. Plo Koon wins the first round imo, but not the second one.

So saying that TPM Maul beat Koon is a wank now ? Can you tell me what dueling feats of Plo surpass TPM Maul's dueling feats other than losing to Savage Opress ?

@yousufkhan1212: That rebuttal was brutal but not totally uncalled for. I concur that Maul>Plo and by quite a lot in my mind. A well put together argument. Impressive work.

@themuser: To be fair, I think they deserved to be scolded like that for his behaviour on Comic Vine, I am absolutely disgusted with him and really wanted to put him in his place. Many people on Comic Vine are absolutely fed up of him, but unlike most users here I can tolerate his nonsense. Any way, thanks for the compliment!

@erkan12: @wolfrazer: @yousufkhan1212: never said kenobi>anakin

Shadow hunter i believe was the book.

prime kenobi had grevious running in about a minuite.

anakin initated the rots force attack. Someone who has tkd dooku is more powerful than maul while hindered.

and kenobi isn't one of the greatest swordsman to ever live?

anakin was not off guard when dooku tkd him. In rots anakin was not off guard

kenobi has lifted ships and brought down freighter sized trees, maul has, dragged a freighter?

Kenobi blasted apart durge who was only destroyed by the sun.

Kenobi obviously completely outclasses maul in raw power as he acheived oneness and immortality.

Kenobi was a few of a handful of tcw force users to know tutaminis suggesting exceptional skill with tutaminis.

kenobi in his prime has outdueled maul twice. Maul has only outdueled kenobi once after ambushing, physically beating, and mentally unbalancing him.

are you my papas, scolding me?

wolfrazer, if i have a machine gun and the dude i'm fighting has a pistol, should i win?

loss to opress was when koon was distracted and opress took his mask off. Koon was beating ventress injured, note a broken hand is crippling to form 5 users that use two handed attacks.

@kbroskywalker:

never said kenobi>anakin

I never accused you of saying that, but you had to know the truth that Anakin is vastly superior to Obi-Wan.

Shadow hunter i believe was the book.

What?

prime kenobi had grevious running in about a minuite

Good for him considering that Obi-Wan has fought Grievous so many times either to barely stalemating him or being dominated.

anakin initated the rots force attack. Someone who has tkd dooku is more powerful than maul while hindered.

Initiated the Force attack in who? Are you referring to Dooku? I wasn't even arguing about Anakin vs Maul.

and kenobi isn't one of the greatest swordsman to ever live?

I never said Obi-Wan is not one of the greatest Lightsaber duelists of all time, and Maul has also been stated as one of the greatest Lightsaber duelists of all time and has had some of the best Sith training possible.

"One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history, Darth Sidious' apprentice took part in the first encounter between Jedi knight and sith warrior for more than 1,000 years in the battle for Naboo." - Star Wars: Fact Files #01

"Darth Maul is one of the most highly and efficiently trained Sith Lords in the history." - Star Wars: Fact Files #01

"Darth Maul is one of the most dangerous and highly trained Sith in the history of the Order." - Star Wars / Encyclopedia Databank

"One of the deadliest, most efficiently trained Sith in the Order's history, Darth Maul's tattooed face is as symbolic of his utter devotion to the Dark Side." - Ultimate Star Wars

Maul is also one of the greatest Lightsaber duelists of all time as well.

anakin was not off guard when dooku tkd him. In rots anakin was not off guard

I never even mentioned Dooku apparently catching Anakin off guard. Stop changing the subject.

kenobi has lifted ships and brought down freighter sized trees, maul has, dragged a freighter?

On the subject on this feat which you overrate so much, all what Obi-Wan did was use the Force to cause the trees to fall. That's literally it. And there were 4 trees that were interconnected, trees have weak spots and if you hit those spots, the whole thing will collapse. And if you carefully look at this panel, Obi-Wan put his hand forward and used the Force to push them. That's what he did, and not all the trees collapsed at once, when you look at this panel, the trees collapse at different heights and angles to form a bridge because his freighter was falling which indicates that he didn't use the Force to push them all. He caused them to collapse collapse and it took so much effort that Obi-Wan was exhausted. However I won't completely discredit this feat, it's a good feat because Obi-Wan diod did this standing on a moving freighter, that would have disrupted his concentration to some extent.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Have to concentrate... Use the Force... Here goes Nothing! PHEW

And what evidence do you have that that tree was a freighter size? Oh and Maul didn't drag a freighter, he dragged a space shuttle, Maul didn't just move it or manipulate it, he DRAGGED it several yards off the entire cliff, having complete control over the massive shuttle and didn't stop controlling it until after it fell off. Maul did this from a very far distance in terms of length and height, and he was only using 1 hand while simulatanously running with Savage, and on top of all that, Maul recently had one of his cybernetic legs shot off. Yes it was a cybernetic leg, but when it was shot off Maul screamed in pain and green substances came out of it, so it was obviously bothering him. That injury would have disrupted Maul's concentration and focus, which makes this feat more impressive. And don't say Maul only managed to do that because of circumstances. The circumstances were actually negative and didn't help Maul at all, Maul was in a desparate situation because he was being chased by a group of Pirates who were shooting at him, and he was also injured in this situation and only used 1 hand to drag it off the cliff even though he was a victim of negative circumstances that affected his performance. Being a desparate situation didn't help Maul at all because of the negative circumstances, only a rage boost would be an actual circumstance, and Maul was not enraged in this situation, he was desparate to get out of there because of the negative circumstances which I mentioned.

Oh and another really good feat that's definitely worth mentioning is that at the age of 15, Maul was ALREADY capable of unleashing a Force scream that would've brought down the barracks of Orsis Academy if he decided to unleash it. And what makes this so much more impressive in Maul's favour is that he was ONLY 15 YEARS OLD WHICH WAS 20 YEARS AWAY FROM HIS PRIME.

"Maul’s clenched right hand slammed down on the table, shattering its surface, and the vibroblade took flight, nearly impaling itself in his head. Straightening, he bared his filed teeth and tensed his body, close to loosing a scream that would have brought the barracks down around him." - Darth Maul: Restraint.

And you say Obi-Wan dwarfs all of Maul's feats as a Force user... Obi-Wan's feat of causing a few trees to fall doesn't even compare to Maul's Force scream.

Kenobi blasted apart durge who was only destroyed by the sun.

Good for him. But Obi-Wan has always struggled to deal with Durge EVEN with the help of multiple Clone Troopers and Obi-Wan only managed to finally destroy Durge by getting inside of him.

Obi-Wan has encountered Durge more than once, and he never handles him that easily. Such as in this Comic where Durge bitch slaps Obi-Wan saying that he's too slow.

Kenobi obviously completely outclasses maul in raw power as he acheived oneness and immortality.

He only achieved that when he became one with the Force, and that's a dead Obi-Wan. We're dealing with ROTS Obi-Wan is obviously alive and not a Force Ghost, being immortal and one with the Force will not be a factor in this.

Kenobi was a few of a handful of tcw force users to know tutaminis suggesting exceptional skill with tutaminis.

So you're going to ignore what Force users have done with Tutanamis outside of TCW?

kenobi in his prime has outdueled maul twice. Maul has only outdueled kenobi once after ambushing, physically beating, and mentally unbalancing him.

Obi-Wan has NOT "outduelled" Maul twice (stop using that word), he's only had 1 victory against him which was also circumstancial.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/yousufkhan1212/blog/darth-maul-and-savage-opress-vs-obi-wan-kenobi-and/127096/

are you my papas, scolding me?

Obviously not because you are apparently a Skywalker. But jokes aside, you deserved to be scolded and criticised because of your horrible debating skills, as far as SW debators go, you currently stand as the worst SW debator and seeing your comments give people headache. I scolded you because you're an ignorant, biased, pathetic liar who spouts out so much bull crap whenever you're in a SW thread, low balling characters to a ridiculous extent and high balling other characters to a ridiculous extent. It's not just Maul you low ball, you also low ball other characters, the other day I saw you in a Luke vs Grievous thread saying that Luke beat Grievous 9/10. Everyone is sick and tired of your bull crap and have called you a troll. And honestly, I don't blame them for calling you a troll and whenever you're in a SW thread you talk to so many people and tag them, but most of them ignore you, well at least most of them time, but they ignore you because you don't have the patience to deal with you because they can't tolerate you. WollfMyth told you about this in another thread and he was completely right. You don't use actual evidence and make up your own bull crap and shove them down other people's throats. But I can tolerate your nonsense now and I am more than patient in dealing with you, and in this thread I literally schooled you yesterday by debunking ALL of your bull crap... And you know what? I actually enjoyed it.

wolfrazer, if i have a machine gun and the dude i'm fighting has a pistol, should i win?

And what does having a machine gun and a pistol have to do with this? There are no guns involved, so be quiet and stop crying. Any way, going back to the subject of Maul being beaten by that battle master... Which I ALREADY went through with you but you don't listen to me or accept criticisms because you're too stubborn to admit you're in the wrong, I'll go through it with you again. What fun!

That battle master was the first Jedi Maul ever faced and it was one of the greatest Jedi warriors who ever lived, and are you really going to expect Maul to have success in his first fight with that type of Jedi when he's never even fought a Jedi before? And Maul was only in an early point in his training. he was NOWHERE near his TPM or TCW counter part.

Darth Maul: I could feel how deeply wrapped he was in a meditative trance. A recluse for seventy years, he ranked among the greatest Jedi warriors living. But he renounced the Lightsaber years before to concentrate on a purer technique. He seemed totally unaware of my presence. I was disappointed at the ease of the task.

Oh and the reason why Maul was defeated because that battle master was too fast for Maul to see or react to, NOT because he lacked skill.

Darth Maul: His speed was such that I barely saw the attack. I tried to focus through the pain, but to no avail. It occured to me that I should die. The price of failure. Instead I resolved to best this enemy. I fled.

Oh and that Battle master's wooden stick was longer than Maul's Lightsaber... Please take that in mind and remember it.

Darth Maul: He beat me with the simplest of movements. His weapon, a plain wooden stick, was longer than mine. He was quicker than me. It was simple to see that unless I could suprise him, he would always win. I had to get in close and strike before he had time to defend. I soon knew what to do.

And how does having a weapon - in this case a wooden stick - that is inferior to a Lightsaber (except in length) - make him any less dangerous? There are countless examples of someone who's not using a Lightsaber beating up an opponent who's using a Lightsaber. In fact, I've got a good one to show you XD.

Remember when Obi-Wan fought Vizsla in TCW? Obi-Wan won that fight, but BARELY. At one point, Vizsla was disarmed and used his BARE HANDS to beat the living shit out of Obi-Wan and physically throw him to the floor. Obi-Wan was armed with a Lightsaber, whereas Vizsla was unarmed and used his BARE HANDS to knock out Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan used the Force at one point in that fight and Vizsla wasn't using his full gear. And you say Maul struggled to beat Vizsla in contrast to Obi-Wan's fght with Vizsla, claiming that Obi-Wan easily beated Vizsla...

Vizsla was unarmed and used his bare hands, Obi-Wan had a Lightsaber and still got his ass handed to him by an unarmed Vizsla.

loss to opress was when koon was distracted and opress took his mask off. Koon was beating ventress injured, note a broken hand is crippling to form 5 users that use two handed attacks.

You're also a Savage Opress low baller too which isn't suprising. Plo Koon wasn't winning the fight at all. Here are the panels of Savage fighting Plo Koon (which will be interrupted by Maul fighting 2 other Jedi Masters)

As you see in his first Panel, Plo Koon had the circumstancial advantage of having help from 3 Clone Troopers which is technically an unfair fight for Savage.

Savage gets rid of those Clone Troopers with a Force blast.

And in this panel Plo Koon appears to be trying to cut Savage at the hip, which Savage barely avoids.

And in this Panel Savage lands a kick on Plo Koon's face.

And I love how you say Plo Koon was distracted when in fact Savage was ALSO distracted because he was dealing with ANOTHER Clone Trooper (or whatever soldier he was).

Savage only won by ripping off Plo Koon's mask, but that was because Plo Koon had the help of Clone Troopers throughout the fight. And Savage still stalemated with Plo Koon. Deal with it.

Just because you're the resident sw expert here doesn't put you abovebeing wrong and it doesn't give you a reson to be disrepctful and dismissive. I gave evidence, you gave none in your reply so you are in no position to be telling me to "stop bumping threads".

I will not stop and i have as much of a right to argue as you do.

Respect me and i will respect you.

Be disrespectful and dismissive, i will be disrespectful and dismissive.

Well, Maul can't do lightning...............

@decaf_wizard: Canonically neither can Plo.

Its like his signature thing in EU

@decaf_wizard: Eh, it's a unique enough application of the Force for the Jedi of his time but I never found it particular impressive or gamechanging.

I'm pretty sure Plo only used it once so it is hardly a signature ability.

@sirdrprofessor: i mean he's not been in that many duels and he expressed to the council he was willing to use it so...

I'm changing my position on the duel. I don't think we've seen enough from koon to accurately guage him. His fight vs ventress and the fact that maul, the arrogant sob who thought only mace could challenge him, considered him a worthy test of skills tells me he's on maul's level.

So no, its not a stomp as some people are saying.

1. Vizla didn't knock Obi-Wan out.

2, "Vizla was unarmed and used his bare hands, Obi-Wan had a Lightsaber and still got his ass handed to him by an unarmed Vizsla." 3 seconds later Kenobi gets right back up and combos Vizla into the ground under the same circumstances with Vizla also being in the air. You overstate Vizla's showings in that fight. Claiming Kenobi barely won is laughable considering the ease in which he disarmed Vizla in the first engagement and the ease at which he brought down Vizla.

I missed this while away for a few months. Sorry to dredge up again, but i need to add my two cents worth in just a few words:

Maul easily defeats Plo Koon.

He is a better martial artist. He is better at dueling, and if we base it on the fact that he is better at battle then his brother/ apprentice, Savage, then we know for sure that Maul will best PK. (The Sith Hunters)

Maul destroys, yeah.

Plo Koon will give him a good fight but Darth Maul wins

Maul, handily. Foes notably under Maul's paygrade have bested Koon.

Says who.

@erkan12: Well considering Maul has never actually used it ever, even in legends, that is dubious at best. Sourcebooks have been wrong before

@erkan12: That's the same book that says Vader can beat Yoda IIRC e.e

No it's not. That was Head-to-Head series... This is Clone Wars Magazine 13.