Darth Maul vs Darth Vader

darth vader, cuz he was trained by the man who killed? ...um ... chopped maul in half?

Vader wins it, He has more skill with his force abilities and he is capable of both being calm in a fight or letting lose anger with explosive results.

If this was a straight up Sword fight, Maul wins it hands down.

I'm bias so Darth Vader.

Since this topic http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-vader-vs-darth-maul-1608921/ has been locked ... And there is no need for another ;

Bump.

@beingfatissupercool@yousufkhan1212@redheathen@alextheboss

Darth Vader would probably win but Maul will make him work for it.

If it was just sabers maul takes it but not as easily as most think. Sabers and force = vader stomps

Maul if you're just talking movies. Vader if you count the extended stuff.

Vader unquestionably.

Been done. Vader wins after a decent fight.

The only way I can see Maul pressing any advantage is in sabers and if he starts getting the edge there Vader can simply thrash him with the force

Vader

Vader, good fight.

Tis s repeat of Ahsoka vs Vader. Vsder wins eventually.

Vader solidly.

Vader curbs

Maul lost to Kanan he has no business fighting Vader

@alextheboss said:

@georgewbush said:

Vader curbs

Maul lost to Kanan he has no business fighting Vader

@alextheboss I couldn't have responded better myself.

@mcbean The comic you're referring to is Star Wars Tales #09, and the story is Resurrection. Maul's character was not a clone. He had been resurrected by the Dark Side acolytes, hence the name of the story.

There is little to go by in your OP. You specifically give us TCW Maul but don't tell us which Vader. I know you said not to use Resurrection (0 BBY) Maul, idky not, but that Maul was pre-TPM. If a pre-TPM Maul could beat Vader, then so can TCW Maul. However, by the time of Rebels season 2 (3 BBY), Maul says he cannot defeat Vader alone.

Vader is victor in this duel, but I also think it would be an amazing fight.

A prime Maul vs PSV would be a good fight because PSV would be more powerful than Maul, but Maul's martial skills would surpass PSV's. I know I'll catch h*** for that, but that's how I see it based on old canon.

@redheathen: Its not an actual response. One got owned by a padawan and admitted inferiority to the other opponent in question. Do you have proof Maul would actually pose any challenge other than getting owned multiple times by TPM Obi wan and Kanan?

Maul lost to Obi-wan and Kanan because he underestimated them and let his guard down. Especially with Obi-wan. He thought he already won and he already got rid of Obi-wan's weapon. If Qui-gon's saber wasn't there, then there would of been no way for Obi-wan to win.

And yes Maul said he couldn't beat Vader by himself, and yes he would win, but he could still put up a good fight.

Kanan<=>TPM Obi-wan<<Maul<Vader

alextheboss responded with an appropriately expressive illustration, or at least one that I related to. =)

Do you have proof Maul would actually pose any challenge other than getting owned multiple times by TPM Obi wan and Kanan?

When was Maul owned multiple times by TPM Obi Wan and Kanan?

Maul beat Obi-Wan. The problem was that, as @alextheboss points out, Maul let his guard down. Read the movie novelization and other books. It's very well explained. It is stated that Maul was better than Obi Wan as well as Qui Gon, and in the novel, Qui Gon says it's not just his age. He clearly states that Maul was his superior:

"Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance. He had survived battles that had tested his skill and resolve in every conceivable way.

But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training..."

In TPM novelization and in the novel Darth Plagueis, we're told that it was the will of the Force that Darth Maul lost even though he should have won. As to TCW, there have been almost countless debates regarding the battles relating to Florrum so there's no need to rehash them.

There are several canon and legends quotes stating Maul is one of the deadliest and most skilled Sith in the entire history of the Sith Order. The most powerful Sith in the entire history of the Order said that Maul was more than a match for the Jedi. The Star Wars Comic Magazine stated that Maul and Vader are "well matched." (May 2014) Beware the Sith ranks Maul close to Vader, and again, even though we aren't supposed to use it, Resurrection showed us a weaker version of TPM Maul defeating Vader in combat. In The Sith Hunters, Yoda says that Bruu Jun Fan is unparalleled in the galaxy as a Force combatant, and Maul defeated him while also killing another Jedi Master at the same time.

What do you mean with,

One got owned by a padawan and admitted inferiority to the other opponent in question.

"One" being whom? Maul? One Maul got owned by a padawan? Obi Wan? in TPM? Who admitted inferiority to whom? Maul to Vader? What I had posted already from Rebels? My apologies, but a little clarification would be appreciated because I'd hate to answer without a full understanding. Thanks

All of that said, I still think that Vader is stronger and would defeat Maul. I think sabers only would be difficult for Vader, but with the Force, it would be Vader without question. It is difficult to discuss this character because we are typically told that he was powerful as a Sith and as a combatant, but then we are also shown this same character as being ... I don't even really know how to describe it ... it's not good.

@redheathen: @alextheboss:

he's trolling.

TPM Kenobi isn't a padawan. He has become a Jedi Knight at the end of TPM.

And no, TPM Kenobi cheap-shotted him when Maul underestimated him, even a force rage amped TPM Kenobi was outclassed by TPM Maul in the actual duel.

He was lying. Which is why he attacked Kanan and Ahsoka afterwards, first he said he needed their help to face Vader because he says he can't defeat Vader alone, and then he attacked them. It's obvious that he was lying.

1- Kanan was extremely amped according to his voice actor,

2- All Kanan did was BFR'ing Maul.

3- Maul underestimated him due to his injury.

4- Maul has not been defeated according to SW.com

5- Kanan can BFR Vader too with the help of PIS, if that's what you're implying.

Anyway, when we look to this fight ''seriously'' , it's obvious that it's a very close call. Almost every possible source confirms that it's.

Dave Filoni : ''Malachor arc, originally, was more about Vader confronting Maul.''

Source : http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/07/18/star-wars-celebration-2016-maul-originally-was-going-to-die-in-rebels-season-2-finale

By ''confrontation'' its obvious that Filoni meant a one-on-one duel, so it means that the whole arc was about the Vader vs. Maul duel, I am guessing that we would take a better duel than Ahsoka vs. Vader duel if it could happen, since SW.com states that Maul was a superior combatant than Ahsoka amongs the rebels group.

''The logical choice pairing Maul with the weakest of the Jedi '' (not with Ahsoka)

--- SW.com

SW Magazine also states that ''it's a close call''...

''It's a close call. And these two Sith well-matched in terms of fighting skills. (...) You get the feeling these two apprentices of Darth Sidious could learn a lot from each other...''

--- Star Wars Comics Magazine 04 (2014)

And more importantly, Lucas describes Vader as ''like Maul or Dooku'' instead of being like Sidious. Which puts them in a same group.

''He wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku.''

--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview, 2005.

I would like to mention what Vader can do and what Maul can do.

Things Vader can do that Maul can't

It's his TK, Vader is obviously better than Maul in this department, while Maul is also very adept with this skill, Vader is just better.

Lifts AT-AT, force crushes the engine of a moving space-shuttle, and redirects a flying freighter (with high difficulty however) , these things are obviously outside of Maul's reach. Maul is obviously a powerful TK user, as he can overpower the likes of Kenobi or Silus in the Force, or survives from bisection due to his raw power, and manipulates / pulls Space-shuttles from a significant distance, collapses caves with moderate effort, casually uses Force repulses on droid armies, but he just can't replicate Vader's top TK feats. In this department Vader is superior. However this superiority is arguably can be effective in this fight, since we know that Ahsoka , Kenobi, or RotJ Luke wasn't even close to Vader in these department, yet they all put up a very good fight and RotJ Luke even defeated him.

Things Maul can do that Vader can't

It's his Force speed / jump and his superior agility in duels, Vader is obviously not as adept as Maul in this department.

Maul's agility would obviously come handy in this fight, because that's the only big advantage Maul has against Vader. While Vader isn't a slouch, he isn't anywhere near close to Maul. Maul can dodge from an explosion that even took down Mace Windu, takes on 4 Magnaguards with ease, jumps on Grievous before he can draw his lightsaber, kicks Sidious in a duel, and outclassess TPM Kenobi and Qui-Gon in their own agile fighting style, and even he had a blaster shot on his shoulder he could still outclass Komari Vosa in a duel with his speed, he could also move fast enough to be invisible to holorecordings. Maul's agility / mobility is obviously superior to Vader's. However, just like the TK advantage of Vader, this might still not be enough to give Maul an edge, since Ahsoka wasn't able to overpower Vader (even though she isn't adept as Maul in force jump / agility based lightsaber fight) and as well as Kenobi failed to do the same in ANH (though Kenobi isn't an aggressive fighter as Maul)

Without the Plot relevance, it could go either way. I am siding with Maul, but Vader obviously can win.

LUL Vader kills Maul every time.

@erkan12 "By ''confrontation'' its obvious that Filoni meant a one-on-one duel, so it means that the whole arc was about the Vader vs. Maul duel, I am guessing that we would take a better duel than Ahsoka vs. Vader duel if it could happen, since SW.com states that Maul was a superior combatant than Ahsoka amongs the rebels group." (followed by scrn cap)

good find! that is a great contradiction to the statement filoni made that only vader and sidious were a match for ahsoka. it doesnt' make sense, and i address that in another thread.

@redheathen:

"By ''confrontation'' its obvious that Filoni meant a one-on-one duel, so it means that the whole arc was about the Vader vs. Maul duel

Er, no. Vader vs Ahsoka due to its character/story telling importance was always intended to be the main conflict of the finale. Feloni never said the arc was going to be about maul vs vader, he said it was discussed as being a PART of the finale. However they chose to not include this because it would distract from ahsoka vs vader.

Ahsoka vs. Vader duel if it could happen, since SW.com states that Maul was a superior combatant than Ahsoka amongs the rebels group."

The problem with the quote is it contradicts the part of the episode its serving a guide for. The quote says kanan agreed with maul taking ezra, he did not. Kanan allowed ezra to go because EZRA wanted to go with maul(due to trusting him).

Ah, that would be stupid, I mean according to that statement Maul can't even match with Ahsoka, instead Ahsoka can match with Sidious, it makes zero sense, it also means that Obi-Wan can't even match with Ahsoka as well, it's obvious that statement is for imperial opponents (Inquisitors most likely), where she and Maul fights together against them until Maul betrays them at the last minute. The show itself makes it clear that Maul > Ahsoka by claiming that Maul is the best (and logical) choice to protect Ezra, moreso than Ahsoka.

You have quotes and the people who said them mixed up, kbro, but you're right about the story. Filoni said that in season 2 Maul wasn't supposed to survive Malachor, and that it was supposed to be about Vader confronting and killing Maul. They decided that was too "fan-servicey."

"It became clear to me as the emotional story developed and we worked on it more that that was just going to be wrong, that if anything happened to Maul it needed to have its proper time and its proper space. That’s how he kind of got a pass and survived to this season.” Read All Here

To me that means that they will take the other fan-servicey route and have Kenobi or someone else kill him. I think Kenobi killing him would be the ultimate Kenobi fanboy tissue wad. Vader is the way to go if Maul is going to be killed, but that doesn't seem to be in the works.

As to the quote about trust, what is published on SW.com is just as valid as what Filoni says. The two ideas don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive, though, and Ezra going with Maul because Maul is the strongest and because Ezra wants Kanan to trust him are two ideas that can exist concurrently.

Then we have the Filoni quote about Ahsoka. Filoni uses the word "only" when describing who "in the time period" can match Ahsoka, so that should include everyone in the galaxy during that time period, which includes Obi-Wan, Vos, you name it. Ahsoka has somehow been so greatly gifted by the Force, out of the blue, with these ultimate abilities matched only by Vader and Sidious, the two most powerful Force users in the Galaxy during that time. Somehow she jumped ahead of Maul and Kenobi and anyone else who survived Order 66 and the Purge, including Yoda. If we are going to take that statement literally, then there shouldn't be any qualifying it with "Imperials." Take it as it is. "Any" in the "time period", and the more I think about the comment, the more I think that Filoni wasn't paying attention to what he was saying. Maybe he'd reply is he is asked for clarification...

@erkan12 "The show itself makes it clear that Maul > Ahsoka by claiming that Maul is the best (and logical) choice to protect Ezra, moreso than Ahsoka."

I agree with this more than Ahsoka being matched only by Vader and Sidious. It makes more sense the more I think about it. The original comment taken literally makes very little sense, and considering that Vader and Sidious are used as examples, it at least appears to imply Imperial, especially considering that Yoda is alive at this time. It is clearly stated by Filoni, and Witwer iirc, that Maul is not an Imperial. The Force suddenly deciding to impart her with extraordinary abilities and thrusting her above those who are definitely her senior and better makes the least sense of all. Maybe I'll tweet Filoni later and see if he answers, or maybe one of you can if you're interested.

@redheathen:

Filoni said that in season 2 Maul wasn't supposed to survive Malachor, and that it was supposed to be about Vader confronting and killing Maul. They decided that was too "fan-servicey."

Which is fine and all but @erkan12's claim that it was going to be the main conflict of the epsiode is baseless and is derived by taking feloni's words out of context. here's the full quote:

"“It’s interesting. This is a little bit inside, but Maul wasn’t meant to survive the Malachor episode. There was a lot of thought given to taking him out there because a lot of the Malachor arc, originally, was more about Vader confronting Maul and it was going to be a story about that."

Note it says it was going to be "more about", not "about" and it says "a lot of" the malachor arc" not the "whole' malachor arc. Ahsoka vs vader was being teased before they'd even decided to bring maul back. Vader vs Ahsoka was the primary conflict of the episode, maul dying was a part of the episode, ti was not the main conflict of the episode.

. The two ideas don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive, though, and Ezra going with Maul because Maul is the strongest and because Ezra wants Kanan to trust him are two ideas that can exist concurrently.

But KANAN himself never agrees with maul splitting up the group. He reluctantly allows ezra to go, but per the sw.com quote, kanan agrees with maul about splitting up the group. This is factually inaccurate. Knana when maul proposed the idea responds "no way".

Then we have the Filoni quote about Ahsoka. Filoni uses the word "only" when describing who "in the galaxy" can match Ahsoka, so that should include everyone in the galaxy, which includes Obi-Wan, Vos, you name it.

It doesn't have to as obi wan and quinlas vos are not potential enemies for ahsoka and feloni's answer itself was about using ahsoka cobatively. If it does, well then that's, that.

Ahsoka has somehow been so greatly gifted by the Force, out of the blue,

This applies to literally any powerful star wars character.

with these ultimate abilities matched only by Vader and Sidious, the two most powerful Force users in the Galaxy

Well yes but that has something to do with the overall lack of force users at this time period.

Somehow she jumped ahead of Maul and Kenobi and anyone else who survived Order 66 and the Purge, including Yoda.

She jumped ahead after more than a decade. Yoda was on his death bed and was living his life as a wrecked hermit. You don't get to dismiss feloni's word because you don't like the idea of ahsoka being a powerful character.

If we are going to take that statement literally, then there shouldn't be any qualifying it with "Imperials."

No there shouldn't be because felonni never puts this statement in the context of imperials.

Take it as it is. "Any" in the "galaxy", and the more I think about the comment, the more I think that Filoni wasn't paying attention to what he was saying. Maybe he'd reply is he is asked for clarification...

Mayve he would, but since nobody's asked, his statement stands.

"The show itself makes it clear that Maul > Ahsoka by claiming that Maul is the best (and logical) choice to protect Ezra, moreso than Ahsoka."

I agree with this more than Ahsoka being matched only by Vader and Sidious.

The show never says or implies this.

. It makes more sense the more I think about it. The original comment taken literally makes very little sense, and considering that Vader and Sidious are used as examples, it at least appears to imply Imperial, especially considering that Yoda is alive at this time

Yoda ison his death bed, vader and sidious are mentioned because they can match(and beat) ahsoka blow for blow at this time period. mperials is never used as a qualifier for the quote

It is clearly stated by Filoni, and Witwer iirc, that Maul is not an Imperial.

Does not matter, as feloni was not talking exclusively about imperials, this point is moot.

The Force suddenly deciding to impart her with extraordinary abilities and thrusting her above those who are definitely her senior and better makes the least sense of all

Her having extrodinary abilities is evident as of tcw considering she was the top padawan of the jedi order post anakin. The force giving extrodinary abilities applies to any powerful force user. Whether you like it or not, unless stated othrwise, feloni's quote holds up.

Maybe I'll tweet Filoni later and see if he answers, or maybe one of you can if you're interested.

Go for it if you want

Vader wins. He has to work for it, but he wins. And for the record I think Maul would beat Ahsoka.

I wasn't arguing with you. I was agreeing and providing backup. I'm not really sure that the arc is about Ahsoka v Maul, though. I think Maul's presence is more about Ezra. If I remember correctly, I think that is even discussed in an interview - something about Ezra being tempted to the Dark Side...

You do not prove how it is factually inaccurate, and it is not proven that the two are mutually exclusive. One fact is that what is on the Star Wars or Disney websites is as much canon as what Filoni says. Disney has stated that there is no more tiered canon. Whatever is published about SW from the time of their purchase and forward is all canon and all of that canon is equal canon.

Do you not see how you contradict yourself? I'm not sure if I should point it out or wait to see if you'll come up with it. ... I'll wait and see if you figure it out and then admit to it.

I do love the idea of Ahsoka being a powerful character. In fact, I discussed it a few days ago after finishing her novel, and if I remember correctly, you (?) dogged the book. Someone did, and I think it was you. Anyway, if not, then perhaps you haven't read how much I like Ahsoka and how much I like how she went out on her own and became stronger. I would very much like for her to be incredibly powerful.

You left out the example I gave about Anakin and Sidious, and I think after reading your reply that maybe didn't read what I wrote. Force users who are that powerful usually show some sign while they are young. I did say that we've read many times in the EU when a young Force user doesn't gain true power until later, but the Force power houses give us some inkling before hand. Not once in TCW tv show or comics or novels was it ever hinted at that Ahsoka would be a Force power house. It was just decided and out of the blue. What I've said doesn't mean it can't happen because it's SW, but the point I'm making that it is odd, especially considering that Maul has been equated in Vader's class more than once, and this is per Lucas as well. What Lucas has had to say is always going to be god canon until Disney proves it otherwise, which has yet to happen other than Filoni's statement, which I still think was made a bit tongue in cheek because it doesn't add up with what else is said. The pic on SW.com being a prime example, which, again, is just as valid as what Filoni says. Email Disney and ask them if you need to. It's just how Disney's new SW canon is set up.

As to the "overall lack of Force users", it doesn't matter because there are plenty of strong ones left such as Kenobi, Vos, and Yoda, and I don't think it's logical to say that Yoda was on his deathbed considering that almost a decade after Rebels season 2 Luke was trained by Yoda. We're only talking about one and a half decades. It's not like Kenobi and Vos and others have become decrepit elderly people, and there is nothing to show us otherwise. If anything, they should have grown in the Force.

However, all that said, I was not aware of this: "Her having extrodinary abilities is evident as of tcw considering she was the top padawan of the jedi order post anakin."

Can you please tell me where this is stated? Even if it is stated, it's not saying much considering there weren't a lot of padawans post-Anakin. Within three years, he had killed them all. Barriss was pretty good herself as well as a few more, and I've never seen anything official about them being ranked. I'd appreciate a link. I'm happy to concede if it is officially stated that she is the top padawan, or maybe not. Being a top padawan doesn't mean a Jedi will be a power house because I'm sure there were many top padawans throughout the thousands of years of the Jedi's existence (the Sith as well), but that doesn't mean they'd become an Anakin Skywalker or Sheev Palpatine. This is similar to saying that a Valedictorian is a genius, which is far from true. I'd still like to see the source anyway, if you don't mind.

"The show itself makes it clear that Maul > Ahsoka by claiming that Maul is the best (and logical) choice to protect Ezra, moreso than Ahsoka."

I agree with this more than Ahsoka being matched only by Vader and Sidious.

The show never says or implies this.

But the website does.

Didn´t Vader commit Seppuku just to get him? That´s enough badassery to make Vader the instant winner.

yes he did, and it was.

@redheathen:

I wasn't arguing with you. I was agreeing and providing backup.

My bad then, i must have misinterpreted your post

I'm not really sure that the arc is about Ahsoka v Maul, though. I think Maul's presence is more about Ezra. If I remember correctly, I think that is even discussed in an interview - something about Ezra being tempted to the Dark Side...

i meant ahsoka vs vader

You do not prove how it is factually inaccurate

The quote says kanan agrees to split the group,this never happens

proven that the two are mutually exclusive.

What? Yes it is. Kanan agreeing with maul to split the group blatnatly contradicts what happens in the episode where kanan never agrees with maul. Those two claims are mutually exclusive.

One fact is that what is on the Star Wars or Disney websites is as much canon as what Filoni says.

Source for this fact? Regardless starwars.com is a secondary source, if its contradicts a canon primary source it serves a sa guide for, this obviously invalidates the contradictory claim it makes. And I'm taking the word of the creator over a image from a gallery which contradicts the episode it serves as a guide for.

Disney has stated that there is no more tiered canon.

Thats fine, but primary sources still>secondary sources

Whatever is published about SW from the time of their purchase and forward is all canon and all of that canon is equal canon.

Which is fine, but published material takes precedent over guides to published material. The whole point of sources like starwars.com is they outline what happened in the episode. If part of this outline contradicts the episode itself, its invlaidated.

Do you not see how you contradict yourself? I'm not sure if I should point it out or wait to see if you'll come up with it.

It doesn't really matter, the quote still puts Ahsoka>rebels maul. If you don't like the idea of ahsoka being>ben kenobi or a yoda who was incredibly close to death, thats too bad

I do love the idea of Ahsoka being a powerful character. In fact, I discussed it a few days ago after finishing her novel, and if I remember correctly, you (?) dogged the book.

I dogged the book because of its terrible characterization and it glossing over potentially interesting stories like ahsoka's reunion with anakin, ahsoka liberating mandalore, saving rex, or facing the concept of family vs jedi attachment, for a vastly less interesting story imo. Charcterization/story telling is > power levels.(Not that the novel really portrayed ahsoka as all that powerful)

You left out the example I gave about Anakin and Sidious, and I think after reading your reply that maybe didn't read what I wrote. Force users who are that powerful usually show some sign while they are young.

Ahsoka being the youngest ever youngling to be promoted, being able to blast right through ventress's passive force barrier as of season 2, being able to give grevious a good fight by the age of 16 all indicate she was especially gifted. You've also got to keep in mind that ahsoka, outside of her novel basically only appears in tcw.

Not once in TCW tv show or comics or novels was it ever hinted at that Ahsoka would be a Force power house.

She is lacking in accolades but tcw's pretty lacking in accolades of that kind outside of folks who were already force power houses(anakin, sidious, dooku, yoda ect.). Ahsoka was only 16 even by the end of tcw.

t I'm making that it is odd, especially considering that Maul has been equated in Vader's class more than once, and this is per Lucas as well.

Lucas has stated that vader was like maul in that he can't surpass sidious, that doesn't put them on the same level.

it doesn't matter because there are plenty of strong ones left such as Kenobi, Vos

Yoda, and I don't think it's logical to say that Yoda was on his deathbed considering that almost a decade after Rebels season 2 Luke was trained by Yoda.

Yoda being able to train luke doesn't preclude him degrading masisvely as a combatant due to him on the brink of death. IIRC per legends sources yoda was using the force to sustain his life

We're only talking about one and a half decades. It's not like Kenobi and Vos and others have become decrepit elderly people, and there is nothing to show us otherwise. If anything, they should have grown in the Force.

Yet again, ahsoka surpassing kenobi/vos is perfectly possible power wise.

Can you please tell me where this is stated? Even if it is stated, it's not saying much considering there weren't a lot of padawans post-Anakin

Relooking at things thread i don't think said source exists so fair enough. Her ability to contend with folks like grevious/visla/ventress when she was 14-16 is a pretty good indication though

But the website does.

In a quote that contradicts the show as I've addressed above

This has become so repetitive.

''You'' are talking about ''out of context'' ? LOL.

It does, when Maul stated to be ''the logical choice'' for protecting Ezra.

Yoda is still powerful enough to kick her ass, and she isn't any better than Kenobi yet Filoni says only Vader and Emperor, and we all know she is no match for Emperor too, either way that's a bullshit claim if you take it ''out of context'' , the meaning of Filoni's words is ; Ahsoka as a rebellion leader is superior than any Inquisitor and any Imperial opponent, only Vader and Emperor is capable of dealing with her in terms of Imperial opponents. And Emperor can do much more than ''dealing'' with her by being highly superior to even Vader. Unless you say Ahsoka can match with Emperor and she is better than Kenobi, your claim is laughable at best.

Filoni didn't say Kenobi, Maul and Yoda because these guys aren't Imperial whose are Rebel Ahsoka's natural enemies.

Lol, no it's not inaccurate. Kanan already agreed that when Maul says ''it's the logical choice'' , Kanan had no choice but to agree afterwards because he know Maul was superior to Ahsoka.

-Kanan : And let me guess, Ezra goes with you? No, thanks.

-Maul : It is the logical choice.

-Ezra : I say we split up. Trust me.

-Kanan : (SIGHS)

Kanan or Ahsoka, didn't say a word when Maul said ''its the logical choice'', because they couldn't. Because they knew Maul was the strongest there.

@erkan12:

-Kanan : And let me guess, Ezra goes with you? No, thanks.

-Maul : It is the logical choice.

-Ezra : I say we split up. Trust me.

-Kanan : (SIGHS)

Kanan or Ahsoka, didn't say a word when Maul said ''its the logical choice'', because they couldn't. Because they knew Maul was the strongest there.

Maybe Maul meant it was the logical choice for plot progression? lol

Maul is good, Vader is better.

Smh guys... StarWars.Com and the Episode don't contradict each other in Kanan splitting up the group. Just stop arguing about it already. Here's what StarWars.com says:

"Kanan agrees to split the group up, the logical choice pairing Maul with the weakest of the Jedi." - StarWars.com: Twilight of the Apprentice Episode Gallery.

It says he agrees to split the group up, here's what happens in the Episode:

Kanan: And let me guess, Ezra goes with you? No, thanks.

Maul: It is the logical choice.

Ezra: I say we split up. Trust me.

Kanan: *Sigh (nods)

Kanan literally agrees with Ezra pairing up with Maul. At first he is reluctant but reluctantly does it anyway, but how and why he agrees doesn't matter since there are multiple ways people will decide to intepretate this and argue about it. However, StarWars.com never specified on why Kanan agreed, it just says he agreed, and then describes Maul and the weakest of the Jedi which is Ezra as a logical pairing, which also doesn't contradict the Episode itself. StarWars.com does not say that Kanan agreed with it being the logical choice, in fact it describes Maul and Ezra being a logical choice fromm an out of universe perspective after it says Kanan agreed, it did not say Kanan agreed because of that.And it doesn't really matter whether Kanan disagrees with that idea because he obviously doesn't trust or like Maul. StarWars.com's description of Maul and Ezra being a logical pairing wasn't stated by Kanan's admission, but rather as a means to tell the story of the Episode itself...

IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND GUYS!!

@erkan12:

''You'' are talking about ''out of context'' ? LOL.

Concession accepted, Vader vs Maul was never discussed as being the main conflict of the season 2 finale

It does, when Maul stated to be ''the logical choice'' for protecting Ezra.

MAUL states its the logical choice. MAUL also wants to turn ezra to the dark side.

Yoda is still powerful enough to kick her ass

Considering he was on the very brink of dying, maybe not

she isn't any better than Kenobi

Because...

Filoni says only Vader and Emperor, and we all know she is no match for Emperor

Feloni says ahsoka is a match for the emperor, he says the emperor can match ahsoka. If the emperor couldn't match ahsoka, then he couldn't be > to her. The emperor as ahsoka's superior can match ahsoka

Ahsoka as a rebellion leader is superior than any Inquisitor and any Imperial opponent

That's not what feloni said. The quote is never put in the context of imperials

only Vader and Emperor is capable of dealing with her in terms of Imperial opponents.

No, the quote is never put in terms of imperial opponents, its put in terms of how to use ahsoka. And per feloni, something they consider in deciding how to use Ahsoka is that at this time period the only ones who can match(pr beat) her are vader or sidious. Now considering this is framed as to how ahsoka can be used, you can argue that as ben kenobi and yoda would never be fighting ahsoka and that feloni wouldn't be considering if they should have ahsoka fight fellow lightsiders, the quote may not apply to them. But as maul is indeed a potential enemy who they even had fight ahsoka, the quote indesputably applies to him. This isn't open for interpretation, whether you like it or not, Ahsoka is>rebels maul.

And Emperor can do much more than ''dealing'' with her by being highly superior to even Vader.

So are you disputing that the emperor can match or deal with ahsoka? If not I'm not sure what the point of this comment is.

Lol, no it's not inaccurate. Kanan already agreed that when Maul says ''it's the logical choice'' , Kanan had no choice but to agree afterwards because he know Maul was superior to Ahsoka.

-Kanan : And let me guess, Ezra goes with you? No, thanks.

-Maul : It is the logical choice.

-Ezra : I say we split up. Trust me.

-Kanan : (SIGHS)

No, kanan never agreed with maul as what you've quoted shows. Kanan let ezra go with maul because EZRA wanted to go with maul because Maul had earned EZRA's trust. Why did maul vouch for ezra going with him? Because he wanted to turn ezra to the darkside. Kanan doesn't agree with maul, he accepts ezra's judgement despite disagreeing with maul.

Vader easy.

I agree with you and don't understand why you're getting upset. To spell out the multiple ways, they just need to look at the grammar in the sentence:

"Kanan agrees to split the group up, the logical choice pairing Maul with the weakest of the Jedi,"

The comma after "up" is incorrectly used. It should have been followed by a conjunction such as "and" or not used at all and instead replaced with a period or a semicolon. Even that doesn't really matter because one independent clause is followed by another, and the latter describes the situation further than the former. There are three ways to interpret the sentence.

1) Kanan agrees to split the group up, and he does so because Maul is the strongest, which is what the franchise wants us to know, or

2) Kanan agrees to split the group up, and he does or does not agree to do so because Maul is the strongest even though the franchise wants us to know that Maul is, or

3) Kanan agrees to split the group up, and he does not agree to do so because Maul is the strongest even though the franchise wants us to know that Maul is.

It doesn't matter which interpretation is used because in any option the franchise has now said that Maul is the strongest and is therefore the logical choice. You're right. (Actually, it says that Ezra is the weakest implying that Maul is the strongest.)

Going even further, that statement is not mutually exclusive from Kanan trusting Ezra. Nothing is said to imply that Kanan trusted Ezra's trust in Maul. Ezra just says, "trust me," and Kanan nods. (replying to a kbro comment)

@kbroskywalker

You do not prove how it is factually inaccurate

The quote says kanan agrees to split the group,this never happens

"Kanan: *Sigh (nods)" <--- a nod typically implies agreement, which is exactly what yousuf said. (Kanan literally agrees with Ezra pairing up with Maul.)

proven that the two are mutually exclusive.

What? Yes it is. Kanan agreeing with maul to split the group blatnatly contradicts what happens in the episode where kanan never agrees with maul. Those two claims are mutually exclusive.

Kanan agrees regardless to whom the agreement or consent is given, and his agreement doesn't even matter because the point is that Maul is the strongest.

=============================================

@kbroskywalkerSource for this fact? Regardless starwars.com is a secondary source, if its contradicts a canon primary source it serves a sa guide for, this obviously invalidates the contradictory claim it makes. And I'm taking the word of the creator over a image from a gallery which contradicts the episode it serves as a guide for.

Disney has stated that there is no more tiered canon.

Thats fine, but primary sources still>secondary sources

Whatever is published about SW from the time of their purchase and forward is all canon and all of that canon is equal canon.

Which is fine, but published material takes precedent over guides to published material. The whole point of sources like starwars.com is they outline what happened in the episode. If part of this outline contradicts the episode itself, its invlaidated.

Non-tiered means that there is no primary and secondary source. It is all primary, and again, the Filoni statement, which I still think was tongue-in-cheek (opinion only), is not mutually exclusive of the quote on the website unless we take the quote literally, which even you can't do.

Above you said that we can't specify that Filoni is only talking about Imperials, but you then said we can't use Kenobi and Vos as examples because they "...are not potential enemies," which is how you contradicted yourself. You did follow up with "If it does, well then that's, that," but do you really believe that considering Filoni has kinda sorta contradicted himself in other interviews? I can't give you specific ones, but if you go back and read his interviews from the past, you'll find where he's asked the same or similar questions over and over. Each time he answers, he gives a reply that isn't truly contradictory, but it won't accurately correspond 100% , either, similar to his quote as compared to the SW.com quote, which is why I say that they aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't make sense that Ahsoka is all of a sudden a stronger combatant than Obi-Wan or Vos, neither of whom are old and decrepit.

Also, I don't recall Yoda being on his deathbed even though he did die 6 years after Rebels season 3 and seven years after Rebels season 2, "Twilight of the Apprentice," and eight years after the beginning of season 2, which is when Ahsoka is introduced. Eight years is a long time for a Jedi Master to be on their deathbed, especially considering that they were training a Jedi not long before dying regardless of anyone's perceptions about said Jedi master's combative abilities. No one thought an 874 year old Yoda would have beaten an 80 year old Tyranus, either. For that matter, no one would have thought an 83 year old Tyranus would have been able to take on ROTS Anakin Skywalker and ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi together, but he (and they) did. I'm not really seeing a 4-2 BBY Yoda having a problem with Ahsoka considering he was up and about training Luke with no problems in 4 ABY just before his death.

However, if we do take Filoni's statement literally, then we have a contradiction in new canon, and one that doesn't make sense anyway considering what's said above. Whether you want to accept it or not, Disney has defined the new canon as being untiered. What is published is to be consistent no matter what, and the only way to make what has been said/ published about these characters has to be cohesive. I'm with you, though, on that it is all or none, but again, considering what's said is incohesive, I can't help but think Filoni wasn't thinking completely through what he said. Without direct confirmation, what he said is senseless.

Back to the OP, Vader > Maul more times than not.

@redheathen: I'll respond to you on this tomorrow

@redheathen: I used that big spoiler text because it's so ridiculous seeing several people arguing about a simple sentence that's not hard to understand...

Maul stomps.

At least in canon. Of course Vader will win the poll because he is more popular character BY FAR, but Maul SHOULD win in an unbiased duel here, since his dueling feats, speed feats, durability feats, basically ALL feats are far superior to Vader's. I can easily prove this.

Dueling skills: (Maul wins)

Maul is a dueling legend, who easily kills most of jedi masters in 1 vs 1 battle in a bink of an eye. He can even fight multiple jedi masters or sith at the same time, even when they are on the level of Obi Wan and Qui Gon, or Mace Windu, or Count Dooku, or Grievous, etc. The only person who CLEARLY outmatched him in dueling skills so far was his old master, Darth Sidious, but even with him Maul could pick up a good fight (I'm not talking about force dueling skills but sword fighting skills of course).

But what I would consider a judging feat here, is the fact that Maul fought and defeated Obi Wan at least two times by now. Yes he DID defeat him in Phantom Manace, Obi Wan was pissed and he still lost and was hanging about to fall from his death, the fight was over. He only "won" by PIS in the end, but Maul did in fact defeated bloodlusted Obi Wan in a fight. Then, he defeated him again upon his return in clone wars, and that was Obi Wan in his prime we're talking about here, versus Maul who was 10 years or so out of the game. Mind you, Obi Wan WAS Anakin's master, and he could fight on even ground with Anakin in his prime, even win a fight with him. Vader is considered to be MUCH weaker then Anakin because of all of his mental condition problems, and obviously lack of limbs, breathing devices etc. So if Maul can win a fight with Obi Wan in his prime and even Anakin - the "better" Vader can't, I think that's really all the proof we need here. Maul would STOMP Vader in a duel.

Durability: (Maul wins)

I don't want to lowball here, but Vader's weak durability MUST be brought up here for people to notice a clear difference. Vader was killed, yes KILLED by only a SPARK, a ricochet of Palpatine's lightning in it's "torture" mode. That just shows how delicate Vader's body is in his suit that sustains him. You damage the suit, Vader dies. Notice how even cutting his arm by Luke made him basically hopeless and ended the fight. Compare this to Maul's feats who was lightning-shocked regularly by Sidious and other characters and didn't even bother (although he was also a cyborg at some point!), and who was CUT IN HALF and survived. Maul has far superior durability to Vader who's suit heavily influences his already poor condition.

Force powers: (Draw)

Force wise Maul and Vader are very similar. They are both sith force wielders who can not or do not use force lightning, but rather focus on using the force to buff their body or for telekinetic attacks. Who is more powerful? I honestly think they are similar in feats at this point. Maul has some very impressive feats in clone wars, easily on par with Vader's feats from original trilogy and Rebels. I consider this a stalemate. Neither probably has enough advantage over the other to use force as instant win tool. Probably their fight would go down to lightsaber combat.

Speed: (Maul wins)

That's just another stomp for Maul here. Vader's suit, again heavily slows him down. It can be seen how Anakin's fighting speed considerably went down after he became Darth Vader. No more flashy front and back flips, no more acrobatic fighting, no more fancy blaster dodging, now he just slowly walks up to you and stationarily lightsabers his way to victory. Maybe it's also Vader's age, not just suit and poor health, but you can clearly see that Luke's main advantage over Vader when they fought in Ep5 and Ep6 was his superior speed. Vader just could not keep up with Luke who was young, fast and acrobatic. In Ep6 Luke clearly blitz him in the end of their fight, simply attacking too fast for Vader to respond, all he could do is block and defend himself. That's one of the reasons Palpatine wanted to replace Vader with Luke, because he was powerful but still old, sick, slow and unable to fight at his full potential. Maul is in his prime here. He is a very skilled and acrobatic fighter, his speed is one of his main attributes. How he wins is actually by blitzing his slower opponents. There's just no reason to think Vader can even remotely keep up with Maul in his prime.

Overall, Maul is a well trained powerful Sith Lord who fought and defeated numerous jedi masters including Vader's master. He is very powerful in the force, incredibly fast, to the point he can blitz some of the most powerful jedi masters at the time, he is very tanky and even cutting him in half can't stop him. And versus Vader, who is powerful, but still just a shadow of his old self, much slower, sick and dying in a delicate suit that he needs to even breathe correctly. Maul has too many advantages here. Maul wins this, at least 8/10 times. It's a stomp.

LMFAO at Maul stomping.

This. He is just better all around.

@thoromdil:

Maul is a dueling legend, who easily kills most of jedi masters in 1 vs 1 battle in a bink of an eye.

Which master did he kill within a blink of an eye?

He can even fight multiple jedi masters or sith at the same time, even when they are on the level of Obi Wan and Qui Gon, or Mace Windu, or Count Dooku, or Grievous, etc.

Ok, kenobi(who actually has outdueled him twice, pre prime), dooku, mace windu and grevious(arguably) could all outduel him alone

The only person who CLEARLY outmatched him in dueling skills so far was his old master, Darth Sidious, but even with him Maul could pick up a good fight

Sidious was toying with Maul

But what I would consider a judging feat here, is the fact that Maul fought and defeated Obi Wan at least two times by now.

Using their season 4 duel to say maul's superior is like using tpm to say kenobi was superior. Kenobi was beating maul in spite of being physically wrecked beforehand and being off balance though to be fair maul was rusty.

He only "won" by PIS in the end, but Maul did in fact defeated bloodlusted Obi Wan in a fight.

Kenobi was a padawan back then

Then, he defeated him again upon his return in clone wars, and that was Obi Wan in his prime we're talking about here

That was not kenobi in his prime and kenobi was the superior duelist in their fight

, Obi Wan WAS Anakin's master, and he could fight on even ground with Anakin in his prime, even win a fight with him.

Thats because Anakin was hindered, on even ground kenobi admitted anakin was going to kill him and anakin almost broke his arms.

Vader is considered to be MUCH weaker then Anakin because of all of his mental condition problems, and obviously lack of limbs, breathing devices etc.

Vader is also stronger, more durable, more masterful, more experienced, more consistent, and more varied,

I don't want to lowball here, but Vader's weak durability MUST be brought up here for people to notice a clear difference. Vader was killed, yes KILLED by only a SPARK, a ricochet of Palpatine's lightning in it's "torture" mode.

Sidious ramped up his lightning, vader took "the full force" of the emperor's power, not to mention vader was already exhausted. Maul on the other hand started screaming when a less powerful version of sidious's lightning was set only to "torture mode". Vader also has vastly better showings like surviving being trapped under a cathedral for days while wounded and tanking this kind of explosion while injured:

Force wise Maul and Vader are very similar. They are both sith force wielders who can not or do not use force lightning, but rather focus on using the force to buff their body or for telekinetic attacks. Who is more powerful? I honestly think they are similar in feats at this point. Maul has some very impressive feats in clone wars, easily on par with Vader's feats from original trilogy and Rebels. I consider this a stalemate. Neither probably has enough advantage over the other to use force as instant win tool. Probably their fight would go down to lightsaber combat.

Alright your gifs you're using to say they're evenly matched don't say that at all. Maul while injured, but driven by desperation over his maimed brother drags a freighter over the edge of a cliff, vader actually lifts the atst. Lifting>>>dragging

That's just another stomp for Maul here. Vader's suit, again heavily slows him down. It can be seen how Anakin's fighting speed considerably went down after he became Darth Vader. No more flashy front and back flips, no more acrobatic fighting, no more fancy blaster dodging, now he just slowly walks up to you and stationarily lightsabers his way to victory. Maybe it's also Vader's age, not just suit and poor health, but you can clearly see that Luke's main advantage over Vader when they fought in Ep5 and Ep6 was his superior speed. Vader just could not keep up with Luke who was young, fast and acrobatic. In Ep6 Luke clearly blitz him in the end of their fight, simply attacking too fast for Vader to respond, all he could do is block and defend himself. That's one of the reasons Palpatine wanted to replace Vader with Luke, because he was powerful but still old, sick, slow and unable to fight at his full potential. Maul is in his prime here. He is a very skilled and acrobatic fighter, his speed is one of his main attributes. How he wins is actually by blitzing his slower opponents. There's just no reason to think Vader can even remotely keep up with Maul in his prime.

Luke was enraged vs a conflicted vader. Vader is slower than maul but he's shown to be able to compensate vs folks in maul's speed class in luke and ahsoka

@kbroskywalker: I think it should catch on that the guy is kinda useless to debate with. He thinks having the ability to amplify your speed and crushing metal(which he deems as atomizing, when it's barely disintegration) sets you apart as a higher tier Force user.

I'd advise even you shouldn't waste time with him.