Darth Maul vs Ben Kenobi vs TROS Kylo Ren vs TCW Darth Tyranus

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tauio

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#1  Edited By tauio

all canon

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alextheboss

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Ben Kenobi<=>TCW Tyranus>=Maul>TROS Kylo Ren

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Aryan87

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Ben Kenobi<=>TCW Tyranus>=Maul>TROS Kylo Ren

ben have no feats to suggest he is a peer of TCW Tyranus , maul maybe .

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Aryan87

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#4  Edited By Aryan87

OT - Tyranus is solidly above the rest , Ben kenobi and Maul would have a great fight considering Ben's growth as a force user , and Kylo comes in last

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alextheboss

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@aryan87: "Maul maybe", literally three shot him. And Ben held his own against Vader longer than Dooku did against Anakin, and Vader>ep 3 Anakin. Kenobi was bested by Dooku via the force in ep 3, and it's been confirmed Ben Kenobi is stronger in the force than ep 3 Kenobi. Physically he declined, but that doesn't really matter when ep 3 Kenobi already has better physical feats than Dooku.

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hellothere5432

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#6  Edited By hellothere5432

SoD Maul>> Dooku > Ben Kenobi

Unsure of where TROS Kylo stands on this thread

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#7 frozen  Moderator

@aryan87: "Maul maybe", literally three shot him. And Ben held his own against Vader longer than Dooku did against Anakin, and Vader>ep 3 Anakin. Kenobi was bested by Dooku via the force in ep 3, and it's been confirmed Ben Kenobi is stronger in the force than ep 3 Kenobi. Physically he declined, but that doesn't really matter when ep 3 Kenobi already has better physical feats than Dooku.

Vader was hindered due to recalling the injuries on mustafar and canon material still notes Vader as having dominated that fight.

Ben didn't just physically decline either. His saber skills are also noted to have declined.

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donloota

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@alextheboss:

Superior versions of Obi-Wan got consistently manhandled by Dooku, how is a post-prime Obi-Wan close to Dooku at all?

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Aryan87

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@aryan87: "Maul maybe", literally three shot him. And Ben held his own against Vader longer than Dooku did against Anakin, and Vader>ep 3 Anakin. Kenobi was bested by Dooku via the force in ep 3, and it's been confirmed Ben Kenobi is stronger in the force than ep 3 Kenobi. Physically he declined, but that doesn't really matter when ep 3 Kenobi already has better physical feats than Dooku.

There is context behind both of those fights

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donloota

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#10  Edited By donloota
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hellothere5432

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#11  Edited By hellothere5432

@donloota:

Here:

We know that Rebels Maul is close to Rebels Vader:

Dave Filoni: "I just felt like everybody kind of had to be thinned out and exhausted, and then here comes the worst thing of all. So you really feel like you have no chance whatsoever. So just organically, it happened that way over a period. We'll have to see. You never know, you never know. The nerd-tacular obsession with Vader vs. Maul. It's hard to say – I mean, Vader is hard to top. Something George is pretty adamant of all the time was that Vader, you know… You never want to do anything to diminish him."

Source: https://www.christianpost.com/trends/star-wars-rebels-season-3-news-ep-talks-about-darth-maul-darth-vader.html

This is further reinforced by Rebels Maul being above Rebels Ashoka:

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- Maul matched with the weakest.

The logical choice to match Ezra with the strongest fighter, who is Maul. It's the basic logic that says Maul was more powerful than SWR Ahsoka.

Group A: Maul (strongest) / Ezra (weakest)

Group B: Ahsoka / Kanan

And Rebels Ashoka was able to give Vader a good fight, a much better fight than Dooku gave Zonakin.

Rebels Vader is superior to the dark-side Anakin who killed Dooku:

VADER COMPLETED HIS MEDITATION and opened his eyes. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective black surface of his pressurized meditation chamber. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. He welcomed it. Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger.

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

Source: Lords Of The Sith

Leland Chee has also confirmed that force user's don't lose power when they lose limbs:

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Lords of the Sith takes place 5 years after ROTS and 9 years before Rebels. Vader only kept growing at this rate till Rebels.

From this we can confirm that Rebels Vader is >> the Dark-side Anakin who stomped Dooku.

And Maul was past his prime by Rebels:

Sam Witwer:"He has this ambition that still exists inside him and that ambition is eating him up -especially now that he's past his prime and glory days."

Source:https://ew.com/article/2016/03/24/darth-maul-returns-star-wars-rebels/

From this we can infer:

Rebels Vader >= Prime Maul > Rebels Maul > Darkside Anakin >> Dooku

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Darth Tyranus, of course, and then prime Darth Maul. Ben Kenobi is a close third, and poor Kylo is out of his league here.

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Aryan87

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@hellothere5432:

Dave Filoni: "I just felt like everybody kind of had to be thinned out and exhausted, and then here comes the worst thing of all. So you really feel like you have no chance whatsoever. So just organically, it happened that way over a period. We'll have to see. You never know, you never know. The nerd-tacular obsession with Vader vs. Maul. It's hard to say – I mean, Vader is hard to top. Something George is pretty adamant of all the time was that Vader, you know… You never want to do anything to diminish him."

Source: https://www.christianpost.com/trends/star-wars-rebels-season-3-news-ep-talks-about-darth-maul-darth-vader.html

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the one quote you are using is not even an author explaining a scene , but just what Martin reffered to as non canon .

Maul is not even close to vader

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and thus by extension

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ashoka is not even close to Vader at all , makes sense cuz vader one shotted her with a force attack

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Uhu123

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Darth Tyranus, of course, and then prime Darth Maul. Ben Kenobi is a close third, and poor Kylo is out of his league here.

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#15  Edited By hellothere5432

@uhu123: Why do you have Dooku>Maul in canon?

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@aryan87:

Maul is not even close to vader

Prime Vader, perhaps. Rebels Vader certainly not. Prime Maul scales decently above Rebels Ashoka who gave Vader a decent fight.

ashoka is not even close to Vader at all , makes sense cuz vader one shotted her with a force attack

Because Vader caught her off guard. The same way she caught him off guard when she force pushed him. Ashoka lasted a while and put up a much better fight than Dooku did against Zonakin (who is weaker than Rebels Vader). Rebels Maul is > Rebels Ashoka per SW.com. Prime Maul is > Rebels Maul. Thus Maul scales over Dooku.

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Aryan87

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#17  Edited By Aryan87

@hellothere5432:

Prime Vader, perhaps. Rebels Vader certainly not. Prime Maul scales decently above Rebels Ashoka who gave Vader a decent fight

did she now ? because all i remember is her being pushed back to all hell , and then one shotted with TK

so basically the argument here is That past time Maul can give a sidious/Yoda+ level character a good fight?

Because Vader caught her off guard.

he didn't , they were mid fight , Vader hadn't use the force the entire fight and when he did , he casually blew her a lot far away

The same way she caught him off guard when she force pushed him.

Ashoka's force push is as relevant as Cere's force push on Vader at the end of Star Wars : Jedi Fallen order

Ashoka lasted a while and put up a much better fight than Dooku did against Zonakin (who is weaker than Rebels Vader). Rebels Maul is > Rebels Ashoka per SW.com. Prime Maul is > Rebels Maul. Thus Maul scales over Dooku

Ben Kenobi gave a better fight to a more powerful Darth Vader then ashoka did to Rebels Vader

Loading Video...

.

why ben's performance is superior

  • he is getting offense on vader , ashoka barely did .
  • he survived in sabers for as long as ashoka .
  • Vader didn't land a single force hit on him , He defeated ashoka in a single force push.
  • Vader feels like he is a threat and is dangerous before the fight began

why this is relevant ?

A New Hope's Ben Kenobi is described as
A New Hope's Ben Kenobi is described as " slower with his movements and facing a lack of practise " compared to his Revenge of the Jedi self

so the current scaling chain is Revenge of the Sith Obi wan > A New Hope Obi wan > Rebels Ashoka

there is a Significant gap between Prime Obi wan and Dooku when it comes to dueling

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in the first scan we see dooku overpower anakin and Obi wan at once in a saber lock

in second , Dooku lands a kick on obi wan before obi wan can react , a display of superior Speed

in third he controls the trajectory of obi wan's blade and matches it with anakin forcefully , a display of Superior strength

dooku was a match for both is showed by the statements too

Infiltrating General Grievous' flagship, the Jedi found the Chancellor bound to a chair in the spacious observation deck. Waiting for them was Count Dooku. Obi-Wan and Anakin challenged the Sith Lord as a team. Dooku proved a formidable opponent.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/obi-wan-kenobi-biography-gallery

Waiting for them was Count Dooku, and unlike the impulsive and disorganized attack that had marked their last confrontation with Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin challenged Dooku as a team. Dooku proved a formidable opponent. He Force-pushed Obi-Wan with terrible strength, tossing the Jedi Master like a rag doll against the walls of the quarters. Kenobi was knocked unconscious.

Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Count Dooku deserved his reputation as a master of the old style of lightsaber fencing. Even with both Anakin and Obi-Wan pressing him, he seemed at ease. The Jedi used every trick they knew, leaping and striking from unexpected directions. Dooku blocked them all.

Source: Revenge of the Sith Junior Novelization ( this suggest he was easily dealing and had obi wan ans abakin deaperate to use custom tacts , which he blocked too )

Dooku handily defeats both Obi-Wan and Anakin on Geonosis and holds his own for much of the duel aboard the Capital starship Invisible Hand, proving alongside Master Yoda that for a Force user, age is only a number.

Source: Age of Republic — Count Dooku: A Sith for a More Civilized Age

in their force prowess there is a ragdoll gap

Waiting for them was Count Dooku, and unlike the impulsive and disorganized attack that had marked their last confrontation with Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin challenged Dooku as a team. Dooku proved a formidable opponent. He Force-pushed Obi-Wan with terrible strength, tossing the Jedi Master like a rag doll against the walls of the quarters. Kenobi was knocked unconscious.

Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Dooku proved a formidable opponent. He Force-pushed Obi-Wan like a ragdoll against the wall of the quarters, knocking him unconscious.

Source: Databank: Obi-Wan Kenobi Biography Gallery

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Also Dooku was offguard against Anakin in ROTS

Dooku appeared, engaging both Jedi at the same time. He first defeated Obi-Wan, Force choking him and nearly crushing the Jedi Master with a heavy railing. An enraged Anakin continued the fight, unleashing a strength Dooku had not anticipated. The young Jedi cut off the Sith Lord’s hands, drew Dooku’s lightsaber to him, and the Separatist leader fell to his knees.

-- http://www.starwars.com/databank/count-dooku

so Count Dooku >> ROTS obi wan > Ben Kenobi > Ashoka Tano ~ Maul GG

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#18 frozen  Moderator
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Leaning towards Dooku

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#21  Edited By SonOfDarkness

I’d put my money on Dooku.

Maul and Kylo could beat Dooku if they’re performing at their absolute best, but they’re just too inconsistent. I’m unsure where to rank Ben Kenobi right now.

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Maul

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I am backing Dooku. I'd say he is above everyone individually, though each could be a solid fight.

However, Dooku thrives in these kinds of fights and has been shown to play his opponents again each other. He'd probably have the easiest time maneuvering the battlefield. He's also a pretty good at multitasking and running interference.

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I am backing Dooku. I'd say he is above everyone individually, though each could be a solid fight.

However, Dooku thrives in these kinds of fights and has been shown to play his opponents again each other. He'd probably have the easiest time maneuvering the battlefield. He's also a pretty good at multitasking and running interference.

Man, just wait for the Maul experts on the thread like hellothere and W4nk to get on ur tail now that you think TCW Dooku > Maul. Just wait for the SoD Maul >> TPM Maul = ROTS Dooku > TCW Dooku scaling they will being up

OT: Maul or Dooku, not decided yet. ROTS Dooku > Maul of course, not sure about this version tho

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@darthor:

Man, just wait for the Maul experts on the thread like hellothere and W4nk to get on ur tail now that you think TCW Dooku > Maul. Just wait for the SoD Maul >> TPM Maul = ROTS Dooku > TCW Dooku scaling they will being up

Lol.

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@darthor said:
@wollfmyth209 said:

I am backing Dooku. I'd say he is above everyone individually, though each could be a solid fight.

However, Dooku thrives in these kinds of fights and has been shown to play his opponents again each other. He'd probably have the easiest time maneuvering the battlefield. He's also a pretty good at multitasking and running interference.

Man, just wait for the Maul experts on the thread like hellothere and W4nk to get on ur tail now that you think TCW Dooku > Maul. Just wait for the SoD Maul >> TPM Maul = ROTS Dooku > TCW Dooku scaling they will being up

OT: Maul or Dooku, not decided yet. ROTS Dooku > Maul of course, not sure about this version tho

Eh, I don't mind. As long as its a respectful debate, I'm okay with it.

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hellothere5432

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@wollfmyth209:

Eh, I don't mind. As long as its a respectful debate, I'm okay with it.

Excellent. Looking forward to debating Maul vs Dooku in the future :)

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Darthor

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@darthor said:
@wollfmyth209 said:

I am backing Dooku. I'd say he is above everyone individually, though each could be a solid fight.

However, Dooku thrives in these kinds of fights and has been shown to play his opponents again each other. He'd probably have the easiest time maneuvering the battlefield. He's also a pretty good at multitasking and running interference.

Man, just wait for the Maul experts on the thread like hellothere and W4nk to get on ur tail now that you think TCW Dooku > Maul. Just wait for the SoD Maul >> TPM Maul = ROTS Dooku > TCW Dooku scaling they will being up

OT: Maul or Dooku, not decided yet. ROTS Dooku > Maul of course, not sure about this version tho

Eh, I don't mind. As long as its a respectful debate, I'm okay with it.

With Hellothere, I guarantee a respectful debate. With W4nk you will have no such guarantee tho.

@darthor:

Man, just wait for the Maul experts on the thread like hellothere and W4nk to get on ur tail now that you think TCW Dooku > Maul. Just wait for the SoD Maul >> TPM Maul = ROTS Dooku > TCW Dooku scaling they will being up

Lol.

Yes hellothere, I know ur strategies. All I need is to know how to rebut them lol

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Dooku solo

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#32 crclopezos  Online

By feats, Dooku wins.

By stalements, Kylo Ren wins.