Darth Maul (TPM) VS Asajj Ventress

Darth Maul VS Ventress on Kamino

• Morals On
• Cannon/Legends allowed
• Standard Gear

Probably Maul for a very slim edge.

Maul

Maul beats Ventress every time. He's just as skilled as he is in TCW, if not more so as he can dual wield with jar'kai or just keep his lightsabers a saberstaff, as opposed to the lone saber he wields in TCW.

His force powers aren't as potent as TCW Maul but he'd still outduel Ventress every time they fought.

I'll actually side with Ventress here.

Still Maul. The strength advantage is there even if there's a disparity in skill.

Ermm...

I seriously doubt Mauls strength advantage would shift the outcome in Maul's favor.

Ventriss takes a majority.

Also Ventress sabers can connect for dual weilding, she is insane good at Jarkai before Dooku ever trained her, and proven herself a top notch dueler as well. Her force feats still match Mauls.

She wins still a slight majority whether clone wars Maul or TPM Maul. Seriously people it's not like Maul continued training or even fighting after his humiliating defeat. Guy did not even remember his own name when Savage found him. There skills are the same and force powers as well.

I don't think his strength alone would, but he does have an overall advantage in augmentation that would allow him to win IMO. Initially his physicals aren't drastically above Ventress's, but when the fight is winding down Maul has a superior track record of being able to revitalize and even amplify his abilities through his anger, i.e wrecking Komari Vosa despite a blaster injury that previously allowed Vosa to evade all of his attacks.

A small edge, to be sure, but enough to let me throw it Maul's way. Ventress is more powerful, so that could arguably allow this to go either way or give Ventress an edge, but I think Maul can cope well enough with the blunt force to keep the fight to a duel.

Strength's kind of a weak point for Ventress. Savage Opress and Grevious have both stomped her on virtue of it even though she'd logically be able to hold her own against them. The lack of power her Jar'kai form has makes matters worse.

@highaccuser:

Strength's kind of a weak point for Ventress.

Based on what?

Savage Opress

Where was it shown that Savage beat Ventress because of the strength advantage he had over her?

Grevious have both stomped her

Greivous won because of strength advantage? The loss she suffered against Greivious in the Clone Wars comic, didn't come at the hands of a duel. He blitz her and chocked her out. Truth be told, I consider that an out-lier feat for GG as the circumstance of his win is kinda ridiculous. He has no business blitzing Ventress from the get-go.

On virtue of it even though she'd logically be able to hold her own against them.The lack of power her Jar'kai form has makes matters worse.

If that was the case Mace Windu should have stomped her as well, since his strength feats are arguably on par with the likes of Savage Opress, yet he required out of his skill to get the W, per Fact File. Or she should have been stomped by Anakin, who's strength feats supersede the likes of Savage and Greivious, and he's also a Djem So user to boot, yet she give him fits regularly.

#fapfapfapfap

What..?

@dccomicsrule2011:

Based on what?

Her not having many strength feats and a poor track record against people who do. And her forms general lack of power.

Where was it shown that Savage beat Ventress because of the strength advantage he had over her?

Here. Skip to 4:12. He pretty clearly knocked her blade so hard she lost it. Then she failed to do any damage to him with her blows and got knocked around. Strength was all there was to that fight.

Greivous won because of strength advantage? The loss she suffered against Greivious in the Clone Wars comic, didn't come at the hands of a duel. He blitz her and chocked her out. Truth be told, I consider that an out-lier feat for GG as the circumstance of his win is kinda ridiculous. He has no business blitzing Ventress from the get-go.

He managed to block her attacks pretty easily and even tanked one to the back, while his hits were knocking her flying, and as you said, he did choke her out, overpowering her effectively.

If that was the case Mace Windu should have stomped her as well, since his strength feats are arguably on par with the likes of Savage Opress, yet he required out of his skill to get the W, per Fact File. Or she should have been stomped by Anakin, who's strength feats supersede the likes of Savage and Greivious, and he's also a Djem So user to boot, yet she give him fits regularly.

Mace Windu's strength feats relay on shatterpoint, which wouldn't work on lightsabers. I don't know if I agree with Anakin being stronger than Greivous, but he's also a good deal less brutal. Maul isn't.

@highaccuser:

Her not having many strength feats and a poor track record against people who do.

Most of those people are more skilled in general though. Anakin, Mace, Greivous, etc,etc.

Here. Skip to 4:12. He pretty clearly knocked her blade so hard she lost it. Then she failed to do any damage to him with her blows and got knocked around. Strength was all there was to that fight.

To be fair, Ventress was only dueling with one lightsaber in contrast with her usually dueling with two. But I can accept that Savage raw phyical frame was the reason he got the win. Also, Ventress failing to do damage to Savage has nothing to do with Savage strength vs Ventress strength. It was just Savage's insane durability. The dude tanked a blaster bolt and continued to truck through it.

And her forms general lack of power.

Fair enough

He managed to block her attacks pretty easily and even tanked one to the back, while his hits were knocking her flying, and as you said, he did choke her out, overpowering her effectively.

Ventress knocked GG through a water tank during that bout as well, so her attacks did have effect on him. Also, he chocked her after he blitzed her (which is inconsistent with his normal showings) and caught her of guard. He never straight up over powered her through sheer strength in a duel.

As I said before, that duel was an inconsistent with the rest of EU in general

Mace Windu's strength feats relay on shatterpoint,

Where in the world are you getting this from? Mace has impressive strength feats without Shatterpoints.

I don't know if I agree with Anakin being stronger than Greivous,

When GG hits with the Force of a meteorite, tear through spider-droids, and break through cliffs edges with the sheer strength of his blows, then I would accept GG is more power. Also, GG dueling style does not focus on strength as much as Djem So does (he relies mostly on unorthodox,speed, and unpredictability), as multiple source books have specified Djem So users as the Bane of Makashi in duels.

but he's also a good deal less brutal. Maul isn't.

Djem So is more strength orientated than Form VII, so there is that.

All in all, can strength play a part in this battle? Sure it can, but not to the extent that it could change the tide of this battle much. Ventress holds her own with a power Djem So user regularly; Mauls strength shouldn't be a problem.

@dccomicsrule2011:

When GG hits with the Force of a meteorite, tear through spider-droids, and break through cliffs edges with the sheer strength of his blows, then I would accept GG is more power.

Eh.. Grievous's strength feats should be above Anakin's. The way he throws people/Jedi/droids around individually or in groups is beyond anything Anakin has shown (especially the time he threw Durge across a gallery and through several objects, hard enough to embed him into a skycar). He's also kicked Ki-Adi-Mundi and Darth Maul a fair distance. Also, the way Grievous effortlessly throws Obi-Wan around in physical confrontations, which is something Anakin is clearly unable to do, is also telling.

He's broken through highly durable material likes phrik from the sheer strength of his strikes, has collapsed a durasteel security console with one punch, cracked transparisteel from smashing a MagnaGuard into it hard enough. He's smashed a Neimodian's skull "out of simple irritation", and "literally smashed to death" Sha'a Gi.

He's created craters and kicked up large amounts of dust just from landing, and his ability to propel himself over a hundred feet in the air shows immense leg strength.

He's ripped open a metal elevator door, and walked through gusts of wind which were tearing up duracrete and sending dozens of battle droids flying.

Anakin's striking strength is comparable once he gets going, although I wouldn't say it's superior, but outside of that Grievous's strength in terms of lifting, throwing, leaping ect are all beyond Anakin's.

Fair enough. But this is neither here nor, there to be frank,as as have superior showing to Darth Maul with operating at their best.

@dccomicsrule2011: Agreed.

I'm just pushing for Grievous to be as dominant as possible, you feel me?

@i_like_swords:

I'm just pushing for Grievous to be as dominant as possible, you feel me?

Seeing as how badly he's treated in TCW, he sure needs it.

I can totally see Ventress talking the majority here. Not only is she more powerful in TK, I'd argue she's more skilled or atleast equally skilled. Maul has the strength and durability edge and could overpower Ventress, but I don't see that happening for a majority.
Ventress wins 7/10.

wtf? Since when did Ventress get to Maul level? TPM Maul outdueled ANH Vader and some of his best feats are pre-TPM.

He's a better duelist, he's superior physically, he's faster and her TK isn't going to be a deciding factor.

Maul wins, he's just better.

Not seeing Maul's superior duelist abilities, and if he wins, it's through superior physical ability. Ventress is more powerful. Seems more like an even split to me than anything else. One has a less drastic but continuous edge throughout the fight, the other's edge is not passive and requires active use but could be more useful. It's really a question of whether Maul's relentlessness can strain Ventress enough for her to not be able to use her powers. Otherwise, she wins.

@mije_101:

wtf? Since when did Ventress get to Maul level?

The fact she has beaten foes on his caliber?

TPM Maul outdueled ANH Vader and some of his best feats are pre-TPM.

1. That was not Maul. It was a clone.

2. The Maul clone was possibly amped.

3. Vader still won the duel in the end, and he was years away from his prime.

He's a better duelist

Nope.

he's superior physically

I can agree there.

he's faster

Nope.

and her TK isn't going to be a deciding factor.

It does grant her an edge in a match-up as close as this one.

Maul wins, he's just better.

Nah. In hind-sight I see this as something of an even split, though I slightly favor Ventress.

The question is was Maul amped when he beat Vader? Because If he wasn't, I'm in need of changing my whole Star Wars mythos.....

It really doesn't matter either way since Maul was illustrated as having an evident mobility edge as well as Vader being pre-prime and listed as a "mere shadow of his former self". Of course if he was a shadow of Anakin in terms of fighting skill than Maul would beat him, let alone Maul with additional edges.

I'm a bit confused, does Maul only have TPM feats here?

If Maul was amped, so was Vader. That's how dark-side rich environments work.

Hmmm this seems to be a touchy subject of late. Lol Ill go with Maul 6-7/10. 1 win over an even split is because he has a horny head. The 2nd win over an even split is because his name is Maul.

There best reasons to why Maul wins. Lol

I think it would have benefited Maul more, since he was enriched in the environment more than Vader was. All in all, it doesn't matter; Maul lost. I have no idea why anyone tries to pass it off as a win for Maul if Vader was the one living in the end.

@i_like_swords: I'm pretty sure the original amp arguments were about Maul being saturated in the dark-side-rich environment long before Vader arrived, and thus being able to enjoy its luxuries more because he had been saturated in it for longer. Pretty shifty argument, but that is how some dark-side environments seem to have worked.

I don't know if the length of time spent in a nexus environment helps how much you can draw on it, although that's an argument I've used in the past admittedly. I haven't seen a source on it though, so I wouldn't bank on it.

It was a pyrrhic victory for Vader, but Maul "won" in the sense that he performed better than Vader.

@shootingnova: Have you ever seen a source on that? If you have I'd be interested in seeing it, in the case of certain characters and their nexus performances.

@i_like_swords:

I don't know if the length of time spent in a nexus environment helps how much you can draw on it, although that's an argument I've used in the past admittedly. I haven't seen a source on it though, so I wouldn't bank on it.

Hence the c"could have" honestly I can accept someone not saying Maul was amped because there is no proof he was.

It was a pyrrhic victory for Vader, but Maul "won" in the sense that he performed better than Vader and outperformed him as a combatant.

Ehh. I guess. As long as there was no outside interference, a win is a win for me.

@dccomicsrule2011:

As long as there was no outside interference, a win is a win for me.

@luckystrike: Use lotion if your going to fap to my awesomeness :)

Also lol at people thinking Maul can beat Anakin at his prime when he lost to Vader.

@i_like_swords said:

@dccomicsrule2011:

As long as there was no outside interference, a win is a win for me.

Not a proverb, Master Swords...

@i_like_swords: Honestly, I think TOR implies it, if anything, but other than that, it's mostly older sources and mostly implicit.

So we can all agree Dooku trashes TPM Maul?

Because he certainly wouldn't have much difficulty with Asajj.

Dooku would beat Maul, but in hard-fought duels, not stomps.

Vader is going down in my estimations now....

maul just has skill, strenght and speed. the only thing ventress has is power which isn't enough to close the gap so I have no idea since when ventress is maul level in terms of skill, honestly losing to statelmating obi-wan or anakin is good but puts her just in the tier beneath maul

Maul isn't a whole tier above Anakin or Obi-Wan, that's ridiculous.

...what?

I never said that maul is a tier above obi-wan or anakin. I just said that ventress isn't in the same tier as neither maul or obi or anakin. Because well in the clone wars ventress is defeated or pushed back by obi-wan and anakin and mostly runs away to escape so I believe that ventress isn't really statlemating obi nor anakin. while anakin is considered a rival of dooku but also of ventress which is just nonsense. on the other hand she has lost to obi-wan and contended with him but she has a big form advantage en obi-wan's soresu is completely focused on defending so geting pushed back by obi-wan is just not good if you want to believe she is as skilled as obi-wan. on the other hand maul has statlemated obi-wan and even won against him (yes by use of dun moch, obi-wan attacked and was defeated rather quick by maul).

I would say ventress is top tier 7 while obi-wan is begin to mid tier 8, maul is top tier 8 and anakin is probably something between top tier 8 and begin tier 9 (just beneath dooku )

Bump, just wanted to see if opinions changed on this thread.

First, I want to adress the fact that Ventress is on Obi-Wan's level of skill which I disagree with. Ventress best feat is statlemating Obi-Wan but was still getting pushed back (considering Obi's prefered fighting style is focused on defending) and Ventress has the form advantage. So even in the best possible situation for Ventress (Obi-Wan has defeated her before) she is beneath him in pure skill (probably half a tier to a quarter of a tier). The fact that Maul has statlemated Obi-Wan before (and even some sources indicate that Maul's skill is above Obi-Wan's) he get's the skill departement.

For the physical battle, Maul is better in every area. To make things short, Maul easily subdued Savage while Ventress was overpowered by Savage.

Power wise Ventress should be above Maul if it is TPM Maul.

Considering that skill is a more prominent factor then power, I would give TPM Maul a majority.

Ventress isn't more powerful than TPM Maul, and she dies here.