Darth Maul (TCW) vs Asajj Ventress

Both Bloodlusted

Random encounter

10ft apart

Takes place in Dathomir

Maul only has Darksaber

All movie and comic feats apply

Maul stomps her with the Force.

Darth maul has better feats, assuming this is just limited to actual canon stuff and not legends

Oh hey dere Deronn, haven't seen you in a while ;D

But yeah, that, after some brief dueling.

I don't see Asajj winning even few rounds. But she can be a good match for every round. (Just like Savage can be)

Maul 10 / 10.

Ventress might hold her own but she loses almost every time.

Maul 10 / 10.

Maul savagestomps

I'm interested to see why people think Asajj gets stomped, especially when this is on Dathomir. She defeated General Grievous (with four sabers) on Dathomir by way of her lightsabers. That puts her plainly on Maul's level. Easily.

Maybe I'm not recalling but I don't remember Ventress' Force wall being weak or broken, so I'm not sure how Maul stomps with the Force either.

Maul wouldn't stomp her with the Force, but he does win here.

Maul.

Wouldn't Maul just be receiving the same amount of an amp on Dathomir as Ventress?

Like you said, it was on Dathomir, so she was amped.

Yeah, I'm gonna say Maul 10/10 here. It's no different than if they were fighting on another planet.

Ventress wins, in a good fight.

I debate ya on that. I seriously think she is the slight better.

This is bad excuse. Amped. She was on Dathomir, so what. Jedi on Curascant in the temple are no more amp than the Sith that take them out in Legacy or Old Republic eras. Its dumb logic unless she was specify to be amped.

There is Light and Dark force areas all over the place, including that swamp planet Dagobah. It was strong in the force, with light and dark spots. No one is stated or shown amped there.

Poor excuse with no real stated proof other than blind assumption. After all she has given Obi Wan and Anakin major fights, beating Obi Wan even before. But I guess she was amped on those non force sensitive planets as well? Right.... Grievous was only beaten by a opinion of some cop out un stated "amp".

Maul.

Ventress wouldn't be beating Grievous, as per Dark Rendezvous and other EU sources. The only exception is that this is TCW Grievous, but even then, Dathomir is noted as being a potent dark side nexus as well, and it'd be safer to assume she was amplified.

They're about equally skilful, but Maul is more powerful. Pulling down 20m ships with moderate effort and under negative circumstances exceeds anything Ventress has done, as well as casually causing landslides. Ventress has caused similarly potent avalanches, but with more effort. Ventress has called down slightly dislodged stone ceilings, and Maul has Choked and thrown about Obi-Wan, who is relatively close to Ventress in power. So Maul is more powerful.

Maul should take a solid majority. Ventress can probably last awhile but in the end she loses. I feel Maul has better force feats.

Assumption is just that. Not fact. Opinion.

As for the second part, Ventress dislodge loose stone from the ceiling? Who says? Can you show me where it was stated they were loose, or more "assumption" here?

Choked and thrown Obiwan. Thats cool.

Ventress did this to Anakin and Obi Wan, force choking both in a middle of a serious fight. Your going to say she was enraged, so what? She was also heavily injured before the battle started. So it balances out. That same logic applies to Maul pulling down a shuttle was from enragement IMO. He lost a battle, nearly lost his brother and running for his life.

Heck Ventress can rip through thick as hell steel piping with her force casually. Ventress can throw around solid stone columns, and by mass they should weigh more than my 12 ton Forklift I operate. She does this casually.

She what appears to have blown Obi Wann through a solid thick concrete like wall, taking Obi Wan out.

I am "assuming" it was Ventress since the scan before was her attacking Obi Wan.

So again, Ventress is not on the losing end of the Force Game at all by feats. She is as good a duelist too. IMO who wins a minority based on who she had fought, and had beaten.

They are near equals, and can swing either way. This whole 10/10 Maul people are listing is so unfounded.

@sirfizzwhizz: Well, even if she did win without being amped, it was TCW Grievous, which isn't speaking much given Ahsoka's performances against him. On the other hand, it's not assumption to suggest that a dark sider on a dark side nexus wouldn't be amped.

How were they slightly loose? Maybe because she threw the missile launcher-guy into the ceiling and had him explode there? And that's still not on par with Maul's showings even if it wasn't loose.

Choking Obi-Wan and Anakin when enraged/amped is very different from Maul casually Choking Obi-Wan and throwing him with enough force to collapse portions of cavern ceilings. That's a completely inconsistent performance, since Anakin is, by nature, vastly more powerful, but then again, TCW Anakin is probably the biggest jobber of the series, second only to Grievous. He doesn't have power showings to match his other incarnations. That's obviously a PIS showing since Ventress has never replicated that again, and Anakin/Obi-Wan have pushed her around in TCW as well, let alone Anakin Choking her as well. Maul, on the other hand, has repeatedly replicated that Choking showing against Obi-Wan, even outside of TCW. Ventress is not powerful enough to just Choke Obi-Wan or Anakin by normal standards.

Ripping through piping doesn't matter. The stone column feat is good but not on par for obvious reasons.

Yes, they are close. Most just said he wins a majority, not 10/10, and he does.

Maul handily.

Also this.

Fights GG on Dothomire. This is after she fights her way through a freaking army I might Add. Wins.

Gallery

Fights Him again not on Dathomir. Really gets the better of him again, even after he cheap shot her in the head. She even waits till Durge is out, and attack him one on one in a straight up fight. Only losing by letting up her attack to ask him who he was. Its not inconsistent at all her beating Grievous on Dathomire, she is better.

@shootingnova

Well, even if she did win without being amped, it was TCW Grievous, which isn't speaking much given Ahsoka's performances against him. On the other hand, it's not assumption to suggest that a dark sider on a dark side nexus wouldn't be amped.

Who cares, look above, she did insane well against the best version of Grievous. So.....

How were they slightly loose? Maybe because she threw the missile launcher-guy into the ceiling and had him explode there? And that's still not on par with Maul's showings even if it wasn't loose.

Proof again? Sounds more like your oponion rather than stated fact, just to downgrade the feat :/ The blast was small, and could very well done nothing to the solid hard stone. Bazooka does little to no damage to a berm of sand for gods sake much less solid stone. Also it was a flame thrower, not missiles, he shot fireballs.

Choking Obi-Wan and Anakin when enraged/amped is very different from Maul casually Choking Obi-Wan and throwing him with enough force to collapse portions of cavern ceilings. That's a completely inconsistent performance, since Anakin is, by nature, vastly more powerful, but then again, TCW Anakin is probably the biggest jobber of the series, second only to Grievous. He doesn't have power showings to match his other incarnations. That's obviously a PIS showing since Ventress has never replicated that again, and Anakin/Obi-Wan have pushed her around in TCW as well, let alone Anakin Choking her as well. Maul, on the other hand, has repeatedly replicated that Choking showing against Obi-Wan, even outside of TCW. Ventress is not powerful enough to just Choke Obi-Wan or Anakin by normal standards.

I love how you like to use Maul's CGI Clone Wars feats as awesome, but try to downplay Ventress Clone Wars feats as everything from there is Jobber. Even Obi Wan was a jobber in that show when compared to Anakin.

Clone Wars Anakin also matched Dooku many times, even when he had MagnaGuards with him. Dont play he is a jobber card. C'mon lol.

Ripping through piping doesn't matter. The stone column feat is good but not on par for obvious reasons.

I disagree with ya.

Yes, they are close. Most just said he wins a majority, not 10/10, and he does.

Fair enough, I think she wins a majority though.

IMO the big difference is I do not attempt to biasly take what I like and dont like for feats of the SCI Clone Wars, like your doing. You either accept it all on the same level or do not refer to those feats at all.

Ventress more than abuses her Force Powers unlike Maul. Ventress has fought better than Kenobi, and more than Match Kenobi with Anakin, as well Grievous. Heck she beaten Kit Fisto who beaten Greivous and matches Obi Wan. She is the better.

maul if isn't being cocky

@sirfizzwhizz: I'm sorry, I didn't know I was talking to you. Please learn some logic before trying to act cool while you're at it. Also like Nova said, it's safer to assume she was amped on Dathomir. Why wouldn't she be? The planet is filled with dark side and magic, not to mention it was her homeworld. Grievous is not from Dathomir nor is he a Force-sensitive, so Ventress clearly had an advantage in that fight.

@sirfizzwhizz: Your a straight up fanboy if you dont accept facts and all your doing is using ABC logic based on the TCW show which is so bad at making characters weaker than what they appear

@icecold14: LOL your the maker of this thread, and state I am a Fanboy for saying Ventress wins a slight majority, while everyone else states he stomps? Bias much. lol. I should flag your sad attempt at a spite thread then and move on, only your attempt is wrong.

Im sorry, is this battle forum about debating things? I was unaware I needed a invitation to correct what you were saying.

Proof she was amped? Still waiting for those facts. After all, she beaten GG pretty much with no amp, and in a random battle after \he sneak attack her. Scans above.

@sirfizzwhizz said:

Gallery

Fights Him again not on Dathomir. Really gets the better of him again, even after he cheap shot her in the head. She even waits till Durge is out, and attack him one on one in a straight up fight. Only losing by letting up her attack to ask him who he was. Its not inconsistent at all her beating Grievous on Dathomire, she is better.

sirfizzwhizz

Holy smacks I've not seen those scans before. Even so, IIRC in Yoda: Dark Rendezvous I think I remember Asajj being ranked just below Grievous.

Maul wrecks.

@silentbat: maybe as pure dueling, but not in stats or her dueling with some force. She is so good because she abuses the Force in battles unlike Maul.

By feats without attempts opinion to lowball, she is on par in force. By feats who she fought for periods of time as well beaten more than compared to Maul's own accomplishments.

I'm just not sure why anyone would think she cannot a win a majority, much less Maul stomps comments. Oh well, maybe she is just not argued enough by fans? Seems like Maul has a huge fanbase even among the more Star Wars known debaters on here :/

@sirfizzwhizz: LOL this thread was made almot 5 months ago lol i needed an answer almost 5 months ago lol i got my answer and simple explanation by Nova whos one of the most known star wars experts in the Vine almost 5 months ago.. so how exactly am i being biased? You fool if i had said this almost 5 months ago than yeah i would clearly be bias but i heard the experts already... last time i saw you clearly werent here at the time so please back off

@sirfizzwhizz

Fights GG on Dothomire. This is after she fights her way through a freaking army I might Add. Wins.

And on a nexus.

Fights Him again not on Dathomir. Really gets the better of him again, even after he cheap shot her in the head. She even waits till Durge is out, and attack him one on one in a straight up fight. Only losing by letting up her attack to ask him who he was. Its not inconsistent at all her beating Grievous on Dathomire, she is better.

You mean with Durge's help (she did attack him at one point after Durge landed his bolas), and Grievous wasn't using a lightsaber. This is pre-prime Grievous as well, since he wasn't fully trained by Tyranus yet. The fight is poorly written anyway. Ventress disarms Grievous and then Grievous Chokes her into unconsciousness?

She's not better. Their respective performances against Dooku and Mace show that, and Dooku himself claimed that Grievous was more formidable:

He had a meeting scheduled with the formidable General Grievous, who was even more powerful than Ventress, but a great deal less interesting as a dinner-table conversationalist.

Source: Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Who cares, look above, she did insane well against the best version of Grievous. So.....

Prove it was the best version of Grievous. He wasn't using a lightsaber, and he had yet to receive all the training he did from Tyranus afterwards.

Proof again? Sounds more like your oponion rather than stated fact, just to downgrade the feat :/ The blast was small, and could very well done nothing to the solid hard stone. Bazooka does little to no damage to a berm of sand for gods sake much less solid stone. Also it was a flame thrower, not missiles, he shot fireballs.

Not everything is stated fact, especially some of the stuff you're claiming.

The blast shook the ceiling, as far as I recall.

And as I said, it doesn't matter if it made no difference to the ceiling, because it's still not on par with Maul's showings.

I love how you like to use Maul's CGI Clone Wars feats as awesome, but try to downplay Ventress Clone Wars feats as everything from there is Jobber. Even Obi Wan was a jobber in that show when compared to Anakin.

Didn't you hear what I just said to you? Maul has replicated that showing outside of TCW as well. You don't listen, do you?

Clone Wars Anakin also matched Dooku many times, even when he had MagnaGuards with him. Dont play he is a jobber card. C'mon lol.

That's lightsaber skill, and he's relatively even with Asajj in that area. I was talking about sheer Force power.

I disagree with ya.

Fair enough, I think she wins a majority though.

Your opinion is your opinion.

IMO the big difference is I do not attempt to biasly take what I like and dont like for feats of the SCI Clone Wars, like your doing. You either accept it all on the same level or do not refer to those feats at all.

Everybody calls bias when things don't head their way. I don't see bias anywhere. I said Ventress was enraged and thus amplified, and Maul has done so far more casually and without amplifications. There's a distinction. If you don't like the circumstances, then that's too bad. It's doesn't make me biased because you don't like it, and I'm certainly not biased because you don't understand what context means.

And you're calling me biased? LOL. You evidently consider Ventress one of your favorites, whereas I'm reportedly known as hating Maul (I don't, but that's besides the point and should eliminate any source of bias, since I do like Ventress more than Maul as a character). Sure, the fact that you evidently like Ventress doesn't necessarily make you biased, but you're definitely in no position to be calling anybody else biased.

You also neglected to respond or read the part I mentioned about Maul doing the same to Obi-Wan outside of TCW.

Ventress more than abuses her Force Powers unlike Maul.

Which really won't matter since she isn't more powerful than he is, or even close.

Ventress has fought better than Kenobi, and more than Match Kenobi with Anakin, as well Grievous.

Ventress beating Kenobi is not a one-way event. Kenobi has also beaten her, and they mostly fight evenly. They're about equals.

She is not more of a match for Kenobi + Anakin except for stupid writing, and she's worse than Grievous by Dooku's own statement, and more importantly, compare her showings against Mace and Dooku to that of Grievous.

For instance, she fought roughly evenly with Grievous with help from two other Nightsisters which Talzin claimed were among the best, and Dooku was drugged. On other occasions, she hasn't fared nearly as well. By contrast, Grievous does offer challenges to Tyranus at times and the Count is genuinely aware of the possibility that Grievous might eventually surpass him if Dooku tells him all of his secrets, hence why he holds several of them back.

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general’s combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

But then, Dooku had kept some secrets to himself.

Just in case.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

We also have Ventress's fight against Mace Windu here. In the comic, it looks less impressive, so I'll just use the Fact File's summary of the fight:

Mace Windu had to use all his skills to defeat the dark side fighter Asajj Ventress.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File 108 (Credit to Intrepid37)

Yes, Mace having to use all of his skills to beat her is very impressive on her part. But she still lost.

Compare that to this:

Kit's bulging black eyes indicated Palpatine. "They want to take him alive."
The words had scarcely left his mouth when something hit the train with sufficient force to whip everyone from one side of the car to the other, then back again. The Red Guards were just regaining their balance when the roof began to resound with the cadence of heavy, clanging footfalls, advancing from the rear of the train."Grievous," Mace grumbled.Kit glanced at him. "Here we go again."Hurrying into the vestibule between the two lead cars, they launched themselves to the roof. Three cars distant marched General Grievous and two of his elite droids, their capes snapping behind them in the wind, pulse-tipped batons angled across their barrel chests. Farther back, clamped by animal-like claws to the roof of the train, was the gunboat from which the frightful trio had been released.Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long.Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries. Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad—the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled. To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike. The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary. Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous—onetime courageous commander of sentient troops—realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous—current commander of droids and other war machines—wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades.Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep.Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself? Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind.Source: Labyrinth of Evil

Grievous using only two of his lightsabers, and being rendered immobile, fought evenly with a Mace Windu who could make use of his mobility. Mace himself conceded that he didn't want to prolong the fight any further. So he won through telekinetic BFR, and the lightsaber dueling portion of the fight? They were complete equals, despite Grievous's disadvantages.

Grievous has better showings against Mace and Dooku than Ventress, and in general he has better accolades, subjective or otherwise. He would beat her, with the exception being, of course, TCW Grievous, who seems more of a wildcard than anything else, but usually a jobber as well.

Heck she beaten Kit Fisto who beaten Greivous and matches Obi Wan.

Seriously? You're calling me biased, but you completely neglect the circumstances in their fights? Kit fought TCW Grievous with a form edge, and a pre-prime Obi-Wan.

More importantly, Ventress studied Kit's fighting style and Makashi is an exact counter for Shii-Cho, which is less-suited for single combat whereas Makashi was designed for single-target dueling. That's why she won.

She is the better.

Doesn't make sense, and you have no grasp of context whatsoever, but you expect me to take you seriously?

@sirfizzwhizz: I was not trying to debate with you nor talk with you, I was only speaking to silentbat. You can try to "correct" me all you want, I really couldn't care less. Proof she was amped? Common sense. Clearly something you don't have, so this discussion is over.

@i_like_swords's head will explode when he sees this. lol

@shootingnova: I know your referring to my post but this guy clearly got me mad and apologies to ILS he just didnt post in this thread at the time you answered lol but is why in the end i said experts again my apologies for my little anger outburst :)

@shootingnova: a nexus, the whole planet? Proof? In many EU material there is many "nexus" of light and dark sides, sometimes on the same planet. So again proof she was on a potent Nexus and proof she was amped.

Lol poorly written lmao. Pick and choosing what you like. I proved a non CGI fight and you still whine about it. Jeez. Also GG had two Lighsabers in the fight, he clearly had training man :/.

Your seriously trying to make GG just sound a beast when he has inconsistent showing whether Clone Wars or not. You deal with it.

Also The Mace Windu claim, he never states Grievous is better than Ventress, just that he is stronger, in stats he is. Ventress is more deadly since she has the force. Hell Windu easy beat Groevous as well with a force crush. Hardly better than Ventress.

Seriously long post of trying to make Grievous sound the best when he has been easy bested in the Canon and bested in the EU. yes in SOME writers hands he is damn awesome, but like Jobbing Sabertooth, he has too many low showings.

Funny how GG or Anakin are punks who job, but also have the best feats as well. Funny how Ventress dealt with them both in EU and a canon, but it's all PIS to you cause you do not like it. Your no different now than you were three years ago.

Her feats and consistency is more than "bad writing" or "jobbing" circumstances. They are consistent in canon and EU.

Now in no way am saying she is better duelist, she is on par with Maul. However to say Maul wins when 1) he rarely uses his force attacks and 2) has on par force feats to Ventress is no way a real win by force for him. The only way to make his force feats seem superior is do grading Ventress.

Maul choked out Obi Wan. Ventress did the same with Obi Wan and Anakin.

Asajj was enraged amp. Well Maul was amped in adrenalin and desperation when he brought the shuffle down, not a feat preform casually or calm circumstances. Bias argument truth be told.

Asajj broke large solid stone from a cave. Well that missile guy "loosen" them even though they never shown to be loosen. Well same "missile guy" was actually a flame thrower guy, and napalm does not explode like gunpowder does anyway.

There simply no proof or flawless argument to downplay her high end feats with the force.

Both are near even, but by feats she is better. Whether someone likes the feats or not, they are consistent. Same Maul in the Clone Wars had a hard time with Vizla, a mere Mandalorian. I bet you argue that is PIS or bad writing too, but it happen. What low showings does Ventress have in Clone Wars at all if we talk inconsistency? Let's brush over the low ends for Maul, and brush away high ends for Ventress. Now that's bias at its best :/.

IIRC Maul had one of his legs shot by pirates at the time...So he wasn't exactly at his best.

@jashro44: so!? Ventress was injured badly from a space ship crash, clutching her side in pain, Obi Wan even point it out to her. You think she was at her best!?

Please, it feels like your trying to side against me again like every other Star Wars thread. I seen both feats, and Ventress was way more impressive choking out Anakin and Obj Wan after being fatally injured. Yes it was fatal BTW, mother Talzin had to save her life from the injury.

@sxe619: 84 posts. Dang these new kids. Don't post then. I can respond to if I feel the need to correct you so other wayward readers understand a full picture than the hand pick of so call Star Wars experts like people to think :/

I wasn't commenting on Ventresses feats. And yea I do respond to your posts because lets be honest I'm the only one who can deal with you :p

@jashro44: lol true bro true. That's why I love ya. :D

@sirfizzwhizz:

a nexus, the whole planet? Proof? In many EU material there is many "nexus" of light and dark sides, sometimes on the same planet. So again proof she was on a potent Nexus and proof she was amped.

Luke compared Dathomir to Dagobah in terms of nexus potency, and just saying that there might be a light side nexus there as well is meaningless to me. Proof there was a light side nexus there? Because as far as I know, there's only a dark side nexus there.

Lol poorly written lmao. Pick and choosing what you like.

I mentioned the fight being poorly written, but that was hardly the bulk of my argument, just a side remark. So I don't know why you're trying to make a fuss over this as if it's more evidence for your supposed biased claims. Why don't you address the proper arguments, and not spend more time on side comments like this.

I proved a non CGI fight and you still whine about it. Jeez. Also GG had two Lighsabers in the fight, he clearly had training man :/.

Of course he had training to some degree, but not in his prime.

Your seriously trying to make GG just sound a beast when he has inconsistent showing whether Clone Wars or not. You deal with it.

Grievous has very few inconsistent showings prior to TCW. And yes, he's more formidable than Ventress, according to Dooku, who has trained and fought both.

Also The Mace Windu claim, he never states Grievous is better than Ventress, just that he is stronger, in stats he is. Ventress is more deadly since she has the force.

This just proves you have no idea what you're talking about, and no idea what I'm talking about. It also proves I'm wasting my time here.

It wasn't Mace. It was Dooku. And secondly, it makes no reference to physical stats, and Ventress's Force abilities make her potent in some ways, but I was referring to lightsaber combat.

Hell Windu easy beat Groevous as well with a force crush. Hardly better than Ventress.

Because I'm sure Crushing somebody with the Force is indicative of superior lightsaber skill. Everybody uses that argument to try to disprove to LoE fight, except it doesn't work. Skill =/= power. There's no way around it, and I can't believe somebody is calling me biased but ends up with these pitiful denials.

Seriously long post of trying to make Grievous sound the best when he has been easy bested in the Canon and bested in the EU.

I never made him sound like the best. In fact, my quotes explicitly state that he always loses to Dooku. So how am I trying to say he was the best?

So again, you just don't know what you're talking about and you're trying to sound smart. And you are a smart person, but unfortunately you're not making very good use of your intelligence.

How does losing put you down? Almost everybody has lost before, from Yoda to Palpatine to Luke.

Funny how GG or Anakin are punks who job, but also have the best feats as well. Funny how Ventress dealt with them both in EU and a canon,

Yes, they are the prime jobbers in TCW, and their best feats are outside of TCW, not here.

And outside of TCW, she contended with them, showing comparable skill, but she lost.

but it's all PIS to you cause you do not like it.

What? I was referring to the TCW fights as PIS, not the ones outside of TCW. Again, you don't even read my arguments, but you're telling me what my arguments are? You don't know what you're talking about. I suggest you either read what I say, or don't respond to me at all. Otherwise, you're both humiliating yourself and annoying me because I don't post that much to have it all ignored.

You're just one of those people who don't understand context, hence why don't know when to ask for proof and when to rely on inference. And then every time we're inferring something, you're rampantly asking for proof. That's not how it works.

Your no different now than you were three years ago.

Here we go again with your cop-out remarks to try and make people look bad because you lack a proper argument.

Don't even attempt this sort of crap again. You can claim that I'm no different than I was years ago or that you have all the support in the world, but it's pretty obvious that nobody else in this thread supports you. This whole anti-consensus attitude is getting on other people's nerves.

Quit making stupid comments that only prove your immaturity. Keep this up and I'll leave you right where I found you, because I'm not going to entertain somebody who spends more time insulting other people and failing to read another person's arguments than actually debate.

Her feats and consistency is more than "bad writing" or "jobbing" circumstances. They are consistent in canon and EU.

What are you talking about?

Now in no way am saying she is better duelist, she is on par with Maul. However to say Maul wins when 1) he rarely uses his force attacks and 2) has on par force feats to Ventress is no way a real win by force for him.

Yes, she's on par with Maul skilfully.

Maul doesn't use his Force attacks rarely, at least not as of TCW. He pulls his weight far moreso than he did in TPM, and he used it in several of his fights with Obi-Wan.

Maul's showings aren't on par. At all.

The only way to make his force feats seem superior is do grading Ventress.

Or maybe understanding reason and context?

Maul choked out Obi Wan. Ventress did the same with Obi Wan and Anakin.

Right, when she was literally screaming in rage for her life, with apparent maximum effort, as contrasted to Maul just Choking and throwing Obi-Wan. So tell me how this is a better showing.

Asajj was enraged amp. Well Maul was amped in adrenalin and desperation when he brought the shuffle down, not a feat preform casually or calm circumstances.

He was definitely not enraged, or at least to the point of Ventress, and desperation is different from anger.

More importantly, he was shot in the leg and supporting Savage with other people shooting him at the same time. Hardly convenient circumstances.

Bias argument truth be told.

I don't care if you think that I'm biased. It's pretty obvious you're resorting to insults out of desperation and a lack of better arguments.

Asajj broke large solid stone from a cave. Well that missile guy "loosen" them even though they never shown to be loosen. Well same "missile guy" was actually a flame thrower guy, and napalm does not explode like gunpowder does anyway.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying here. And as I said for the third time, it doesn'tmatter whether they were loose or not, since it's still not on par with Maul's showings. When will you learn to read?

There simply no proof or flawless argument to downplay her high end feats with the force.

I'm not trying to "downplay" her feats. I'm trying to prove that Maul wins, and you're not listening because most of the time that you respond to me, you're talking about something I've never said or you're misquoting me.

Both are near even, but by feats she is better. Whether someone likes the feats or not, they are consistent.

None of your listed feats makes her better.

Same Maul in the Clone Wars had a hard time with Vizla, a mere Mandalorian. I bet you argue that is PIS or bad writing too, but it happen.

Except Filoni said it was all an act. So goodbye to this cop-out argument.

What low showings does Ventress have in Clone Wars at all if we talk inconsistency? Let's brush over the low ends for Maul, and brush away high ends for Ventress. Now that's bias at its best :/.

What are you talking about? Ventress is one of the more consistent characters in TCW, or at least far more so than Grievous and Anakin.

It's pretty evident you're talking about bias because you don't have anything else to say.

@sirfizzwhizz: lol I'm not new here, this is just a separate account. Besides, pretty much the only posts I make are on Star Wars battle threads.

Pretty sure Maul can just overpower her with the force. If not, sliced.

Maul takes this.

Oh I'm not even reading this thread, haha.

@i_like_swords: It'd be best if you didn't, honestly.

@shootingnova:

Luke compared Dathomir to Dagobah in terms of nexus potency, and just saying that there might be a light side nexus there as well is meaningless to me. Proof there was a light side nexus there? Because as far as I know, there's only a dark side nexus there.

In the Clone Wars Yoda states its very strong in the Living Force when he arrives there. Not light nor Dark, but it has Dark side areas to it. I see no difference why Dathomire is a whole planet of Dark Nexus when Dark Nexus's are always shown to be specific areas or temples.

Waiting for proof on your end their still she was amped.

I mentioned the fight being poorly written, but that was hardly the bulk of my argument, just a side remark. So I don't know why you're trying to make a fuss over this as if it's more evidence for your supposed biased claims. Why don't you address the proper arguments, and not spend more time on side comments like this.

Biased nothing, I proven she is consistent on who she fights.

Of course he had training to some degree, but not in his prime.

A second ago you try to claim he had no training, but to be fair Ventress was still being train by Dooku too at that time. So your point?

Grievous has very few inconsistent showings prior to TCW. And yes, he's more formidable than Ventress, according to Dooku, who has trained and fought both.

He still has inconsistent showings outside Clone Wars. In both Canon and EU.

This just proves you have no idea what you're talking about, and no idea what I'm talking about. It also proves I'm wasting my time here.

It wasn't Mace. It was Dooku. And secondly, it makes no reference to physical stats, and Ventress's Force abilities make her potent in some ways, but I was referring to lightsaber combat.

The qoute above was Dooku, my bad. Hard to keep track when just reading things as long as you posted. Point remains. Grievous stats are better thus the more powerful comment. Nothing stated he is better.

Because I'm sure Crushing somebody with the Force is indicative of superior lightsaber skill. Everybody uses that argument to try to disprove to LoE fight, except it doesn't work. Skill =/= power. There's no way around it, and I can't believe somebody is calling me biased but ends up with these pitiful denials.

Mace beaten Grievous not once but twice. Force Crush in the show, and dropping a small speeder thing on him in the comics. Mace >>>> Grievious. Any Jedi who fights GG in dueiling only is dumb.

I never made him sound like the best. In fact, my quotes explicitly state that he always loses to Dooku. So how am I trying to say he was the best?

So again, you just don't know what you're talking about and you're trying to sound smart. And you are a smart person, but unfortunately you're not making very good use of your intelligence.

How does losing put you down? Almost everybody has lost before, from Yoda to Palpatine to Luke.

I agree. Just saying entress has better track record IMO. Her taking GG is not PIS.

Yes, they are the prime jobbers in TCW, and their best feats are outside of TCW, not here.

And outside of TCW, she contended with them, showing comparable skill, but she lost.

Obi Wan Jobbed in the show too, but people bring up how Maul took him. Hell Maul in his prime lost to a rookie Padawan Kenobi :/

Yes, she's on par with Maul skilfully.

I thought we disagreed here?

Maul doesn't use his Force attacks rarely, at least not as of TCW. He pulls his weight far moreso than he did in TPM, and he used it in several of his fights with Obi-Wan.

Maul's showings aren't on par. At all.

Yes they are. IMO at least.

Or maybe understanding reason and context?

Made up assumptions you mean?

Right, when she was literally screaming in rage for her life, with apparent maximum effort, as contrasted to Maul just Choking and throwing Obi-Wan. So tell me how this is a better showing.

He was definitely not enraged, or at least to the point of Ventress, and desperation is different from anger.

More importantly, he was shot in the leg and supporting Savage with other people shooting him at the same time. Hardly convenient circumstances.

And Ventress was mortally woounded when she did her feat. Maul was shot and lived fine. Bog deal. He was also desperate by running for his life, clearly a amp in my eyes. But lets ignore this "context".

In the end your making Ventress sound weaker when the context your using is false IMO.

@sirfizzwhizz: Not really interested in responding to you again. Goodbye.

And before people say that this is a cop-out, I made this response before I could even read Fizz's posts, and I'm not going to read it anyway.

Understanable, I called you out again for your assumptions not to be seen as fact.

Maul was shot, upset that Savage was missing a arm, lost a battle, and running for his Life. With all that context he pulled down a shuttle a few feet.

Ventress was mortally wounded and dying, fighting Obi Wan and Anakin. She Force Choke both. Seems on par to me.

Ventress rips apart solid stone. A flame thrower guy blew up on them. Yet they showed no cracks or damage on the. By art. Further more they never crumbles even after falling 100s of feet onto solid earth. Seem they were solid but she broke them apart with Force.

She is on par. Trying to dismiss her feats and overlook context of Mauls is not the way to go.

Such a meaningless bump.

Asajj's force powers aren't any better than even Savage Opress. Savage has force pushed 20 meter SpaceShip, and Maul force pulled 30 meter SpaceShip which is much more better since force pull is harder than force push. Asajj has no feats on these calibers, not to mention Maul easily used force blast to Kenobi collapsed the cave in the process and he used force wave to droideka army, used force blast to army, manipulated 10 men with ease, used heart stun, these feats are superseded Asajj's Force powers heavily, he can stomp her with the Force if he wants, though he doesn't need to.

In terms of force powers, she is about to same level with Obi-Wan or Anakin I would say.

Stalemated with Luminara ;

Stalemated with Kenobi ;

Force pushed by Ahsoka Tano ;

Force pushed by Plo Koon ;

Force pushed by Kenobi ;

Get stomped by Dooku ;

Choked and ragdolled by Savage ;

Not to mention, why Darth Maul would need the Force to stomp her ?

Disarmed and ragdolled by Savage in saber combat :

She can't handle Savage Opress alone, how could anyone expect her to handle Darth Maul ?

Comic book also confirms that Asajj and Kenobi were outmatched against Darth Maul and Savage ;

...But not even their combined might was enough to defeat the Brothers... Forcing Obi-Wan and Ventress to make a narrow escape.

This is not a fair match for Asajj, Darth Maul's strength and speed would overpower her if not his force powers.

Not to mention Maul is more skilled than Asajj is.

Mace Windu easily defeated Asajj, while clearly he couldn't easily beat Darth Maul.

Do not assume, however that we are equals, we are not.

Also destroying 4 MagnaGuards with saberblitz feat also suggets that Darth Maul is more skilled than Asajj, as far as I remember Asajj has no feat such as this.

Asajj's only advantage here is her dueling only style makashi which has no meaning against Darth Maul's sheer kinetic and physical strength, in speed I would say Maul is better at that as well.

I want to consider this feat as both speed and strength, first jumps at Grievous before he can react, then tackles him with sheer strength.

And yeah, capturing Grievous isn't an easy task (well Gungans did it, but they were too many), Kit Fisto with his former padawan failed to capture Grievous despite they had prep. time and help from Clones.

Another speed feat that supersedes any speed feat of Asajj, reacts to an explosion before Mace Windu did ;

That being said, Asajj would put up a fight but Darth Maul would win everytime. 10 / 10.