Darth Maul (SoD) vs Ben Kenobi (SWR)

Battle in a death star hangar.

In a comparison of speed, strength and agility, Maul should have a significant advantage. This really boils down to whether or not he'll fight using his old tricks, because he wasn't out-fought by Kenobi in 'Rebels' - simply outsmarted.

Maul should win here.

Prime Maul should take it in an excellent duel. Though Kenobi is also superior to his RotS-self, Maul is at the a completely different level here.

He was also a completely broken and a lost person in the Rebels S3, not only outsmarted.

Kenobi handily

Maul is trash

@georgewbush: how?

An insane, thirsty, hungry, old, and tired Maul lost to Kenobi.

@hypnos0929: Which doesn't matter because Maul admitted inferiority to Vader whom Kenobi is a peer of in terms of skill? Maul also lost to Kanan whom Kenobi would decimate.

@georgewbush: Are you really bringing up the Kanan loss? I agree Kenobi wins, but it will be in a good fight.

I'd say even, but Maul 6/10. SWR Kenobi is superior ROTS Kenobi, but SoD Maul is much better than Rebels Maul, and SOD Maul is much, much better a tired, thirsty, hungry Rebels Maul that has chunks of his legs falling. Also, the Maul vs Kenobi was PIS. Maul thought Kenobi was "an old desert rat" and that he'd be easier to beat. Maul got arrogant (AGAIN.) When Kenobi switched to the Ataru stance, Maul thought that Kenobi was easy and that he could take the latter out with the hilt to the face+stab movement he did against Qui-Gon. Now, this was EXACTLY, 200% what Obi-Wan hoped Maul would do. Maul was surprised when his lightsaber was bisected, and couldn't react. Also, Maul had chunks falling off his legs, he was thirsty, hungry and tired from days of wandering in the desert, and he's an emotional wreck by this point. He's a psychopath obsessed with revenge. Kenobi has learned many things, and grown since ROTS. There is a quote from the ANH novelization that states Kenobi has grown. The Rebels crew also stated they were inspired by ancient Samurai fights that the winner was decided by one move, even if they were a good match for each other. Kenobi would win anyway but it would not be easy at all. Here, Kenobi won't try anything like that because Maul doesn't have a double bladed saber, and if he does try some weird tactic, SoD Maul, also being a tactical genius, will realize it and decapitate Kenobi.

The fight in Twin Suns didn't matter, what mattered was Maul's death scene, and I loved it.

@georgewbush:

1) Kenobi died against Vader so both lost to Vader

2) Maul's "loss" to Kanan has been debunked by so many people, so many times.

3) Maul isn't trash. He was older than Kenobi, thirsty and hungry from walking through the desert and his mechanical legs had more than likely gone to hell after his years of not having repairs. If Kenobi had been even slightly parched and lost to Maul people like you would complain about how unfair the fight was. Face it you just hate Maul

Edit: Maul was also an insane lunatic when he fought Kenobi. He was talking to himself and going insane while walking in the heat

Maul Gets Curbstomped again.

Kenobi

There really isn't concrete evidence he got weaker.

The Kenobi lowballing is starting to become ridiculous

So when the majority of Jedi/sith get older more powerful

As seems with Sidious,Dooku,yoda etc etc

Why do all of a sudden everyone saying that obviously Rebels maul and Kenobi are weaker when that goes against every single piece of canon evidence in regards to ageing Jedi

At this point in time Kenobi's is not even older than Dooku

RoTS obi>= rebels Kenobi> TCW Maul> TCW Kenobi> TPM maul > TPM Kenobi

Obviously here Ben stomps with pure ease

Kenobi should win.

Ben is not stomping, but he's winning 7-8/10

Based on what did he get significantly weaker ? Vader couldn't even break Kenobi's defenses and Vader knew Kenobi would've beaten him had his attention faltered.

That is from EU sources. And even if we bring EU sources into this, Vader and Ben admit they are former shadows of their prime selves too.

The difference between RotS Obi-Wan and TCW Obi-Wan is unreal, there is 1 year at best between TCW S4 and RotS, Kenobi has already spent 2 years in the Clone Wars as a Jedi Council member at the time.

ANH Kenobi was more skilled and more adept than RotS as a fighter, whereas SWR Maul was a broken and a lost person at the time, much weaker than even his TPM-self.

TCW Maul is at a completely different level. Who took his revenge from Kenobi at Mandalore by killing Satine and he was ready the challenge Sidious' and Dooku's forces. In the Rebels, he lost everything which includes his army, his apprentice, his mother etc. and he had no hope to destroy his enemies, which made him mentally weaker and broken.

Movie Novelization claims otherwise.

''Your power has matured since I taught you, (...)

Vader growled contemptuously. "I am the master now."

- Taken from ; Novelization Episode IV A New Hope

As for Kenobi ;

''But I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words."

- Taken from ; Novelization Episode IV A New Hope

As you can see, Kenobi claims that he has grown more powerful in terms of saber combat, and the context is saber combat ; ''if my blade finds its mark''

RotS Kenobi>ANH Kenobi=SOD Maul>TPM Maul> Rebels Maul.

Ben takes it

@royal_warrior:

Obviously here Ben stomps with pure ease

Ben wins, but he doesn't stomp.

Prime Maul still wins.

Obi Wan wins. SWR Obi Wan>ROTS Obi Wan=SoD Maul.

For the last time, SWR Obi Wan>ROTS Obi Wan.

Read it again and try to understand the context of the quote, he is talking about the saber duel. He says Vader has matured since RotS, which is saber-wise because that's what they are doing at the moment. They are not fighting in a Force only combat. And Kenobi then says ''I too have grown'' ...

''Kenobi gauged the shrinking distance between the oncoming troops and himself, then turned a pitying gaze on Vader. "This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words."

"Your philosophies no longer confuse me, old man," Vader growled contemptuously. "I am the master now."

- Taken from ; Novelization Episode IV A New Hope

The difference isn't huge however, they are probably still at the same level of 8. The problem was the style of the duel (which was out of starwars universe; an old samurai movie ending) and Maul was decreased in skill and power (broken and lost) and he was hung-up at the moment, while Kenobi reached a superior level due to his purpose which is protecting the chosen one Luke.

So that last duel was a special case, though I agree that Kenobi didn't lose any power since RotS and he was evolving, and enlightened.

I didn't say otherwise. But Legends Ben's reflexes certainly didn't get significantly weaker.

It was fortunate for Ben that he had continued his Jedi exercises on Tatooine, that he had not allowed his reflexes to become dull. He did not think about how long it had been since he had last used a lightsaber in combat.

--Taken from: The Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi

Thats reflexes. Nothing to do with combat speed, stamina, strength ect.

That's first post I responded to was indeed about Ben's reflexes :

And I never said that Ben was> his younger self anyway.

@richard96: That's only starwars.wikia's point of view, I don't know which editor wrote that but it's not canon, they are useful in terms of sources that I would accept, but not their personal opinions about the duels.

This is all in the old EU. In the new canon, Ben is above ROTS Obi, in both lightsaber combat and the force.

And even in the old EU, Ben is above his former self in force power.

@richard96: I already told you the ANH movie novelization and Dave Filoni says that Obi-Wan has grown more powerful after RotS. Though I believe the difference is only slight, it is still there. I am not making up an information because I want to believe, I am using evidences here.

this.

Maul doesn't lose again.

Obi-Wan could slaughter Maul seven times in row with no rest and one arm, but people will STILL insist that he's inferior because reasons?

Kenobi, he has the high ground...

I can:

"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...

(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight[referring to tcw maul/kenobi). But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "

Rebels Maul Is>Sod Maul as a duelist. And note this is refeering to maul As of his fight vs rebels kenobi

And ANH Kenobi>ROTS Kenobi

P

@kbroskywalker: I agree Rebels Maul is probably more skilled since he has more experience. He doesn't have that drive or the stamina he sued to have though so I'm not sure who would actually win. I think it would come down to how determined Rebels Maul is. Under the right mindset he is probably the most deadly version of Maul.

Also people Maul's loss against Ben wasn't supposed to be a stomp. It was supposed to be an all or nothing quick battle as you showed above.

I doubt this. Darth Maul would be at his best in Clone Wars due to the fact he was constantly sharpen for battle. He was fighting the best of the best and always in the thick of shit. Rebels wise, he fought only fodder (Inquisitors) and only a handful of times. If anything he was worse as a duelist. This makes sense too in both lore and real world logic. Real world logic, if you do not do something, you get worse at it over time. I use to shoot expert all the time in the military. After 3 years of not shooting I barely make Marksmen these days. I dont shoot a lot anymore. Same for martial artist. A guy who is in the thick of MMA for years takes a year or two break, even after training in that time off, is not where he once was upon return. That is how it is.

Same for SW lore too. As characters, including Obi Wan himself, state their skills "atrophied" with the saber after not using ot for many years like they were force too in CWs.

There is no logical or proven reason from real world logic or lore for them to be as good as they were during CWs.

@sirfizzwhizz:

I doubt this. Darth Maul would be at his best in Clone Wars due to the fact he was constantly sharpen for battle. He was fighting the best of the best and always in the thick of shit. Rebels wise, he fought only fodder (Inquisitors) and only a handful of times. If anything he was worse as a duelist.

This is definitely a plausible scenario. Though I do think Rebels Maul is shown to be more knowledgeable of the force.

This makes sense too in both lore and real world logic. Real world logic, if you do not do something, you get worse at it over time. I use to shoot expert all the time in the military. After 3 years of not shooting I barely make Marksmen these days. I dont shoot a lot anymore. Same for martial artist. A guy who is in the thick of MMA for years takes a year or two break, even after training in that time off, is not where he once was upon return. That is how it is.

Ya that's how it works in the real world, but not always in fiction.

Same for SW lore too. As characters, including Obi Wan himself, state their skills "atrophied" with the saber after not using ot for many years like they were force too in CWs.

When did Obi-wan say his skills atrophied?

There is no logical or proven reason from real world logic or lore for them to be as good as they were during CWs.

I would agree with this, but the creators of Rebels and Disney have a hard on for the original trilogy, so IMO they seem to be trying to push Vader>ep 3 Anakin and Old Ben> ep 3 Kenobi, even though Lucas practically stated the exact opposite before.

So I agree using real world logic ep3 Kenobi and SOD Maul would be above their older versions, but I'm not sure the writers would agree. Maybe about Maul they would, but mostly because of his psyche.

The quote refers to maul overall as a swordsman, so overall he is still the better duelist than his tcw counterpart. Also the quote is in the ocntext of maul as of his rebels duel vs kenobi, so even considering his mental state, he was still sod maul's superior.

Also people Maul's loss against Ben wasn't supposed to be a stomp. It was supposed to be an all or nothing quick battle as you showed above.

Yup, though it should be noted, its not as if maul got unlucky, as feloni notes, due to kenobi as a character rising above his struggles while maul never let go, kenobi is the superior fighter and feloni notes due to kenobi's progression as a jedi, maul can't beat him.

Stop trolling. He meant Kenobi vs. Maul rivalry, not only Maul or only Kenobi. They don't have a prolonged lightsaber duel just because they are extremely good ? What kind of logic is this, Sidious vs. Yoda, both of them are extremely good but they had a prolonged lightsaber duel, because it was the first time they dueled with each other. Not like Maul vs. Kenobi, they dueled with each other almost 4 times in the canon before, with the addition of SoD off-panel confrontation ;

Dave Filoni : “I felt strongly Obi-Wan, if he could help it, would really rather not kill Darth Maul. Obi-Wan is at a point, in my mind, where he’s become rather enlightened. He’s been in the desert discovering who he is, really evolving as a character. He’s not that young brash kid that went into a fight with Maul out of anger for the fact his master was killed. It can’t be that same situation this is so many years later. Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That’s where his life went wrong. He can’t let it go.”

Filoni hopes the duel, and the moments after, are the perfect representation of one of the most important conflicts in all of Star Wars.

“It really is to express the difference between the Jedi and the Sith. Which is the Jedi become selfless and the Sith remain selfish. When pressed, because Obi-Wan is protecting someone else in the end, he does fight. But because he is so true and knows who he is in that moment, you can’t defeat that. So Obi-Wan is going to strike down Maul because Maul is such a broken and lost person, which I think is why in the end you see Maul being cradled by Obi-Wan.''

- http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-producer-of-star-wars-rebels-on-tonights-incredible-1793376931