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#1 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

Location:

Unpopulated. Random encounter & begin 30 feet apart.

Rules:

-Random encounter.

-In character.

-Pre-leg loss Darth Maul.

-Standard gear for all.

-Standard elimination rules apply.

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#2 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-injury Grevious?

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#3 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (5258 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to say Maul and Savage, but feat wise I think Grevious and Ventress have it. :(

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#4 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Andy Steven Summers: Pre or post injury Grevious makes all the difference, imo.
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#5 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

Pre-injury Grevious?

I was unaware it made a difference aside for that stupid cough?

Fun fact, that's not the first time Mace owned him with the force. Another time he dropped a large vehicle on him.

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#6 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:

@Ferro Vida said:

Pre-injury Grevious?

I was unaware it made a difference aside for that stupid cough?

Fun fact, that's not the first time Mace owned him with the force. Another time he dropped a large vehicle on him.

That is a fun fact. 
 
I was under he impression that after he received that injury he was unable to fight at the same level as he could prior to it. Is that not the case?
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#7 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Ferro Vida said:

Pre-injury Grevious?

I was unaware it made a difference aside for that stupid cough?

Fun fact, that's not the first time Mace owned him with the force. Another time he dropped a large vehicle on him.

That is a fun fact. I was under he impression that after he received that injury he was unable to fight at the same level as he could prior to it. Is that not the case?

Honestly, I don't know. Silver or JediXman will, but I haven't heard that before.

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#8 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: Alright, well then I will go with Grevious and Ventress for the win here.
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#9 Posted by JediWaffles (757 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give it to Maul and Savage, honestly. In the finale of Clone War's Season 4, Maul and Savage beat out Obi-Wan and Asajj. This was legless Maul, who seems to be weaker than his former self. Obi-Wan is arguably better than Grievous, so i'd say Team 1 takes this.

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#10 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediWaffles said:

I'd give it to Maul and Savage, honestly. In the finale of Clone War's Season 4, Maul and Savage beat out Obi-Wan and Asajj. This was legless Maul, who seems to be weaker than his former self. Obi-Wan is arguably better than Grievous, so i'd say Team 1 takes this.

Savage's fight against Asajj was brutal, man.

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#11 Posted by JediWaffles (757 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@JediWaffles said:

I'd give it to Maul and Savage, honestly. In the finale of Clone War's Season 4, Maul and Savage beat out Obi-Wan and Asajj. This was legless Maul, who seems to be weaker than his former self. Obi-Wan is arguably better than Grievous, so i'd say Team 1 takes this.

Savage's fight against Asajj was brutal, man.

This was after the failed assassination attempt on Dooku, yeah? Do you happen to remember what season and episode that was? I'd like rewatch it. Not too sure how it went anymore

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#12 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediWaffles said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@JediWaffles said:

I'd give it to Maul and Savage, honestly. In the finale of Clone War's Season 4, Maul and Savage beat out Obi-Wan and Asajj. This was legless Maul, who seems to be weaker than his former self. Obi-Wan is arguably better than Grievous, so i'd say Team 1 takes this.

Savage's fight against Asajj was brutal, man.

This was after the failed assassination attempt on Dooku, yeah? Do you happen to remember what season and episode that was? I'd like rewatch it. Not too sure how it went anymore

No, I'm talking about the 2v2 in the finale. You can watch it here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic/5/star-wars-the-clone-wars-season-finale-obi-vs-maul-round-2/658292/#25

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#13 Posted by JediWaffles (757 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@JediWaffles said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@JediWaffles said:

I'd give it to Maul and Savage, honestly. In the finale of Clone War's Season 4, Maul and Savage beat out Obi-Wan and Asajj. This was legless Maul, who seems to be weaker than his former self. Obi-Wan is arguably better than Grievous, so i'd say Team 1 takes this.

Savage's fight against Asajj was brutal, man.

This was after the failed assassination attempt on Dooku, yeah? Do you happen to remember what season and episode that was? I'd like rewatch it. Not too sure how it went anymore

No, I'm talking about the 2v2 in the finale. You can watch it here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic/5/star-wars-the-clone-wars-season-finale-obi-vs-maul-round-2/658292/#25

Oh, yeah i've seen it already, loved that fight. In any case, yeah, it just solidifies my point that Asajj and Grievous just can't keep up with Maul and Savage.

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#14 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

Examples of Savage Opress:

Savage / Maul vs Obi-Wan / Asajj

VS 2 Jedi

VS Dooku / Asajj

VS Obi-Wan / Anakin / Droids

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#15 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
Pre-injury Grevious?
It makes no difference.
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#16 Posted by kcaz (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

darth maul and his brother stomps. 
reasons
- grievous always acts tough and runs away
- grievous and Ventress never trusted each other
- grievous cant use any force powers and is therefore defenseless against any force attacks

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#17 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said: 

Fun fact, that's not the first time Mace owned him with the force. Another time he dropped a large vehicle on him.

In fairness to Grievous, when Mace threw the STAP at him, it struck Grievous with his back turned.
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#18 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@kcaz said:
grievous always acts tough and runs away
He always acts tough and runs away? That must explain why he confronted and kill Adi Gallia, killed four to five Jedi simultaneously at the Battle of Coruscant, stalemated Mace Windu, beat Shaak Ti, casually wrecked multiple MagnaGuards, and has repeatedly posed challenges to Dooku, right? 
 
Come on, now. 
 
grievous and Ventress never trusted each other
They will be working together regardless, but you could argue that Maul and Savage would have greater synergy. 
 
grievous cant use any force powers and is therefore defenseless against any force attacks
Largely irrelevant. If his lack of Force abilities mattered in duels, he would have lost his duels for that very reason but never did. More to the point, his durability is sufficient to withstand their offensive Force abilities, and with his heavily offensive lightsaber form, they would be hard-pressed to even attempt a Force attack.
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#19 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@Andy Steven Summers said:

I want to say Maul and Savage, but feat wise I think Grevious and Ventress have it. :(

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#20 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: When did Grievous stalemate Mace? I was so excited to see them face off in the comic I read the other day... then nope, vehicle crush, LOL.

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#21 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: It was in Labyrinth of Evil (by James-freaking-Luceno). I could quote it if you want, but you would have to give me a few minutes.
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#22 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Your call, sir.

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#23 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
Kit's bulging black eyes indicated Palpatine. "They want to take him alive."
The words had scarcely left his mouth when something hit the train with sufficient force to whip everyone from one side of the car to the other, then back again. The Red Guards were just regaining their balance when the roof began to resound with the cadence of heavy, clanging footfalls, advancing from the rear of the train.
"Grievous," Mace grumbled.
Kit glanced at him. "Here we go again."
Hurrying into the vestibule between the two lead cars, they launched themselves to the roof. Three cars distant marched General Grievous and two of his elite droids, their capes snapping behind them in the wind, pulse-tipped batons angled across their barrel chests. Farther back, clamped by animal-like claws to the roof of the train, was the gunboat from which the frightful trio had been released.
Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long.
Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries. Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad—the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled.
To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...
The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.
The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.
Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous—onetime courageous commander of sentient troops—realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous—current commander of droids and other war machines—wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades.
Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep.
Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself?
Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind.
--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil

Notice the circumstances: Grievous fights with only two lightsabers, as opposed to his usual four. His magnetic clamps adhere him to the top of the mag-lev train to prevent him from being hurled off by the wind but also restrict his mobility. Yet he still fights evenly with Mace for a while, and eventually, Mace only wins by exploiting his restricted mobility and BFRing him. (On that note, it is not entirely accurate for me to call this a stalemate, because Mace did win via BFR, but what I was referring to was their lightsaber contest only. And in that, they were equal.) 
 
Pretty good feat, I would say.
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#24 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (5258 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Which team do you believe would take the majority? (I don't believe you've said, unless I missed something.)

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#25 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Andy Steven Summers: Not sure. I need to learn more about Savage, but from what I saw of the videos on the previous page and from what k4tz told me about him being somewhat superior to Ventress, I think he could probably beat her but would lose to Grievous. I am confident Maul could also beat Ventress. But the real deciding factor here, in my opinion, is Maul vs Grievous, and that I think could go either way.
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#26 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Kit's bulging black eyes indicated Palpatine. "They want to take him alive."
The words had scarcely left his mouth when something hit the train with sufficient force to whip everyone from one side of the car to the other, then back again. The Red Guards were just regaining their balance when the roof began to resound with the cadence of heavy, clanging footfalls, advancing from the rear of the train.
"Grievous," Mace grumbled.
Kit glanced at him. "Here we go again."
Hurrying into the vestibule between the two lead cars, they launched themselves to the roof. Three cars distant marched General Grievous and two of his elite droids, their capes snapping behind them in the wind, pulse-tipped batons angled across their barrel chests. Farther back, clamped by animal-like claws to the roof of the train, was the gunboat from which the frightful trio had been released.
Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long.
Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries. Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad—the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled.
To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...
The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.
The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.
Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous—onetime courageous commander of sentient troops—realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous—current commander of droids and other war machines—wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades.
Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep.
Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself?
Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind.
--Taken from Labyrinth of EvilNotice the circumstances: Grievous fights with only two lightsabers, as opposed to his usual four. His magnetic clamps adhere him to the top of the mag-lev train to prevent him from being hurled off by the wind but also restrict his mobility. Yet he still fights evenly with Mace for a while, and eventually, Mace only wins by exploiting his restricted mobility and BFRing him. (On that note, it is not entirely accurate for me to call this a stalemate, because Mace did win via BFR, but what I was referring to was their lightsaber contest only. And in that, they were equal.) Pretty good feat, I would say.

That was fantastic. I must say that was an awesomely cinematic battle.

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#27 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (5258 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: If either of team one can defeat Ventress than it could soon become a two on one against Grevious. I believe Maul could keep Grevious busy long enough for Savage to finally defeat Ventress. Then the two Zabraks should be able to take Grevious.

I do not know if Savage however could hold off Grevious while Maul fought Ventess if it went down this way. He is too aggressive and straight forward and I think would get defeated.

So for me it determines who squares off against who first.

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#28 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: Compliments of Luceno and the fantastic novel that Labyrinth is, my friend. If you have the time, I would actually recommend you read LoE. Although it would be better to read novels before that, it is one of few EU books out there that is more new-reader friendly. LoE is essentially a prequel to RotS and leads up to it very well, and for information on Grievous, there are few novels better. One detail I should point out though is that the original Clone Wars show somewhat contradicted it, but fortunately, the webcomic Evasive Action and the The New Essential Chronology basically reconciled the two and corrected the differences between them so that both CW and LoE are still canonically accurate.
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#29 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Andy Steven Summers said:

@Silver2467: If either of team one can defeat Ventress than it could soon become a two on one against Grevious. I believe Maul could keep Grevious busy long enough for Savage to finally defeat Ventress. Then the two Zabraks should be able to take Grevious.

I do not know if Savage however could hold off Grevious while Maul fought Ventess if it went down this way. He is too aggressive and straight forward and I think would get defeated.

So for me it determines who squares off against who first.

That makes sense.
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#30 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

I imagine character history dictates that Savage will want to fight Ventress a majority of encounters. Which is a good thing for him, because honestly, I think Grievous would eventually cut him to shreds.

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#31 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (5258 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Agreed one both accounts.

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#32 Posted by Ruvik_ (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth maul and his bro win

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#33 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Andy Steven Summers: What majority do you think Savage would take against Ventress?

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#34 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (5258 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Based off of his showings against her, then her and Dooku, and against Anikan and Obi, (not counting the other Jedi he slaughtered and his padawan). I would say 8/10. The guy comes out of the gate strong and I believe he can overwhelm her.

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#35 Edited by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@k4tzm4n: Based off of his showings against her, then her and Dooku, and against Anikan and Obi, (not counting the other Jedi he slaughtered and his padawan). I would say 8/10. The guy comes out of the gate strong and I believe he can overwhelm her.

Dayumn, that's a hefty majority!

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#36 Posted by JediWaffles (757 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@k4tzm4n: Based off of his showings against her, then her and Dooku, and against Anikan and Obi, (not counting the other Jedi he slaughtered and his padawan). I would say 8/10. The guy comes out of the gate strong and I believe he can overwhelm her.

Dayumn, that's a hefty majority!

Seems about right, though. Asajj simply has no answer for Savage's brutal force. Maybe in Clone War's next season, we'll get a different showing from her, but as of now, Savage takes this fight.

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#37 Posted by intothetempest (301 posts) - - Show Bio

It’s Grievous and Ventress for me. Maul was fine but I honestly think Grievous will destroy him and Ventress was powerful in her own right, she took on Anakin and Obi Wan numerous times and even though she was defeated I think she got better each time. Plus this Savage dude annoys me, I detest anything to do with that horrendous animated series on t.v right now.

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#38 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediWaffles said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@k4tzm4n: Based off of his showings against her, then her and Dooku, and against Anikan and Obi, (not counting the other Jedi he slaughtered and his padawan). I would say 8/10. The guy comes out of the gate strong and I believe he can overwhelm her.

Dayumn, that's a hefty majority!

Seems about right, though. Asajj simply has no answer for Savage's brutal force. Maybe in Clone War's next season, we'll get a different showing from her, but as of now, Savage takes this fight.

Yeah, with the way this season ended we're sure to see more of them.

Hopefully we'll see more Embo, too. They kept teasing us with cameos of him in the final episodes, haha.

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#39 Posted by spystreak (2160 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by steelhound56 (1076 posts) - - Show Bio

@spystreak: grievous owns those guys, love the old Tartatovsky series. good showing for him... Ki Adi Mundi is one of the Masters on the Jedi High Council, and grievous overwhelms him...

Shaak Ti is also in the fight, but im not sure on how good of a swrodswoman she is

although lightsaber combat wasnt one of Mundi's high points, he still has considerable skill...

that being said, Maul quickly overwhelmed and defeated Qui Gon, a better swordsman than Mundi.....

I say Savage and Maul take it

being trained since childhood by Sidious>>> being trained for a few years by Dooku

and is been shown that Savage at least >= Asajj

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#41 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

What feats does Maul have that place him above Grievous? Who they were trained by is irrelevant. Luke is a better swordsman than Palpatine or Dooku; does that mean any of his students are better than Maul or Grievous? Showings are of greater importace.

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#42 Posted by spystreak (2160 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56 said:

@spystreak: grievous owns those guys, love the old Tartatovsky series. good showing for him... Ki Adi Mundi is one of the Masters on the Jedi High Council, and grievous overwhelms him...

Shaak Ti is also in the fight, but im not sure on how good of a swrodswoman she is

although lightsaber combat wasnt one of Mundi's high points, he still has considerable skill...

that being said, Maul quickly overwhelmed and defeated Qui Gon, a better swordsman than Mundi.....

I say Savage and Maul take it

being trained since childhood by Sidious>>> being trained for a few years by Dooku

and is been shown that Savage at least >= Asajj

you miss the meaning of why I posted it look at his abilities in this and his unorthodox fighting methods not to mention Grevious has killed Tarr Sierr,Sha'a Gi,Daakman Barrek and 3 or four ARC troopers on screen and if we look back on Grevious' History it says he has killed a hell of a lot more Jedi than Maul could ever hope to grevious was also an expert tactician and led the Seperatists to several major victories

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#43 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@spystreak said: 

you miss the meaning of why I posted it look at his abilities in this and his unorthodox fighting methods not to mention Grevious has killed Tarr Sierr,Sha'a Gi,Daakman Barrek and 3 or four ARC troopers on screen and if we look back on Grevious' History it says he has killed a hell of a lot more Jedi than Maul could ever hope to grevious was also an expert tactician and led the Seperatists to several major victories

First, let's look at the video objectively. The video was Grievous' debut in SW media. As with many major antagonists, he was portrayed in his initial appearance as a character not to be confronted lightly by having him defeat cannon fodder characters and other previously established characters. In no way does this translate to his overall showings. If you posted the video of Grievous' performance at the Battle of Coruscant, you would notice that Shaak Ti and the Ithorian and Talz Jedi she traveled with (none of whom have any combat feats) were capable of fending off Grievous all the while combating the MagnaGuards as well as defending Palpatine. Shaak Ti was one of the Jedi that Grievous beat at Hypori; so clearly, if she could hold her own better against him at a latter time, regardless of whether she won over him or not (she lost), then we can conclude with certainty that his abilities were exaggerated in his first fight, as is the case with many villains. Furthermore, in the General Grievous miniseries, the General had difficulty with only two Jedi at once. While it is true that he killed many Jedi at the Battle of Coruscant, often more than one concurrently, all of them were unnamed Knights and Padawans with no real skill to speak of. More to the point, as I said, Shaak has shown no special fighting ability, and K'Krukh specifically is known for losing fights only to survive. Aayla Secura and Ki-Adi-Mundi were the only Jedi in that fight whose prowess as duelists has been tested before (and Ki-Adi's showings as a combatant are limited).
 
Regarding Tarr, Sha'a Gi, and Daakman, all of them were conceived purely for Grievous' opening battle. None of them possess any feats, none of them possessed any noticeable skills, and none of them were worth mentioning in the long run. They were punching bags made for the sole purpose of having Grievous kill them. And for the record, he killed Sha'a Gi by a surprise attack when the former was scared half to death by his approaching foe. As for ARC troopers, is that supposed to be impressive? Maul killed twenty soldiers by himself once. Point? 
 
And of course Grievous killed more Jedi than Maul. He had far more opportunities to. Maul only encountered Jedi in the last few years of his career, and he was not even supposed to reveal himself and the Sith Order as a whole to the Jedi until the day he died (the Battle of Naboo). The others he met and killed by coincidence and subsequently needed to kill them to obstruct the Jedi Order from becoming aware of the existence of the Sith. Grievous, by contrast, was a project developed by the Separatists (and the Sith ultimately) for the exact purpose of fighting in a war designed to weaken the Jedi. Obviously, under those conditions, he would meet and fight more Jedi than Maul did. In any case, that line of reasoning is empty of substantive meaning. Grievous has similarly killed more Jedi than Dooku has as well, yet we know for a fact that Tyranus is the more proficient swordsman. In duels, Maul has beaten the Jedi Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anoon Bondara, and Darsha Assant, as well as the Nightsister Mighella. Grevous has beaten Shaak Ti, Adi Gallia, B'dard Tone, four to five unnamed Knights, and fought equally with Mace Windu. Their combat feats collectively parallel one another; so I am at a loss for why you think Grievous is so obviously superior to Maul. 
 
And lastly, on Grievous' strategic accomplishments, how he fares as a military strategist is by and large irrespective of his efficiency in one on one combat. What you should have mentioned was his electronic brain's tactical functions that afford him analysis and adaption mid-battle. However, Maul is comparatively a notable tactician in the midst of a duel, as he has shown on a number of occasions before. In that, there should be no particular leaning toward either one, given that both of their demonstrated skills in that area are fairly straightforward and nothing especially unusual.
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#44 Posted by steelhound56 (1076 posts) - - Show Bio

@spystreak: You have to look at the quality of the victories rather than the quantity when you talk about one on one battles. Since everyone is thinking Grievous is going to square up against Maul, which would be correct, given Savage would prefer Asajj, and vice versa (bad blood between the two) ill get down to analyzing their various victories and defeats.

Grievous Major Highlights

Defeats several Jedi at Hypori. Only two of note are Ki Adi Mundi and Shaak Ti, both of which have questionable abilities as duelists.

Defeats several Jedi in The Battle of Coruscant. No one of note is beaten. Mace Windu crushes his chest as he escapes with Palpatine.

Kit Fisto owns him the the new Clone Wars series.

Fights with Ashoka Tano is the new Clone Wars series. (appeared to be winning, but failed to kill her)

Fights on even ground with Mace Windu until he is BFR'ed

Is a noticeably inferior duelist to Dooku

Has Beaten Asajj Ventress and Durge in combat

Cunning Military Strategist

No Force abilities

Maul Major Highlights

Holds the upper hand in a two on one duel against Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan Kenobi. Kills Qui Gon in one on one combat. Defeats Obi Wan in one on one combat, but is killed due to PIS.

All the victories Silver2467 mentioned

Trained from childhood by Darth Sidious in the ways of the Dark Side.

Skilled in stealth and espionage.

Strong command of the Force.

Compare and Contrast

So you have Grievous defeating several unnamed Jedi in combat, only three Jedi of reputable note

Ki Adi Mundi, a Jedi Master with limited combat showings

Shaak Ti, another Jedi Master with limited combat showings

Adi Gallia, a Jedi with limited combat showings

Dueling Mace to a standstill is an impressive feat in his favor

And Maul defeating several prominent Force users in his short career, including...

Qui Gon Jinn, one of the most prominent swordsmen in the Order.

Anoon Bondara, who was regarded by many Jedi as one of the premiere practioners of lightsaber combat in his time.

Mighella, A Nightsister of Dathomir

Obi Wan Kenobi, who was at Jedi Knight level according to Qui Gon in TPM.

Maul defeated better quality opponents in combat than Grievous has, that being said I rate Maul being slightly above Grievous in terms of lightsaber proficiency.

What edges Maul out over Grievous is his command of the Force. This enhances his reflexes, movement speed, strength, and durability to be able to match the General's own formidable physical presence.

Maul edges out over Grievous in a long battle, while Savage is able to take Asajj by showings.

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#45 Posted by JediWaffles (757 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@JediWaffles said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@k4tzm4n: Based off of his showings against her, then her and Dooku, and against Anikan and Obi, (not counting the other Jedi he slaughtered and his padawan). I would say 8/10. The guy comes out of the gate strong and I believe he can overwhelm her.

Dayumn, that's a hefty majority!

Seems about right, though. Asajj simply has no answer for Savage's brutal force. Maybe in Clone War's next season, we'll get a different showing from her, but as of now, Savage takes this fight.

Yeah, with the way this season ended we're sure to see more of them.

Hopefully we'll see more Embo, too. They kept teasing us with cameos of him in the final episodes, haha.

Yeah i hope they have an episode or two with him as the focus. Easily the most badass character in the show right now.

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#46 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@steelhound56 said: 

Kit Fisto owns him the the new Clone Wars series.

For the record, just to provide context on this, Fisto beat him on account of his Shi-Cho form. In no way is this a low showing for Grievous because Kit's style is perfect to engage an enemy with four weapons. Besides, Fisto is one of the best duelists in the Order. 
 

Is a noticeably inferior duelist to Dooku

What do you mean "noticeably"? He is noticeably inferior to Dooku in the sense that Dooku has beaten him on several occasions, but if you mean "noticeably" in the sense that there is a substantial gap between them, then this is inaccurate. In Dooku's own musings, he acknowledged that Grievous has given him trouble in duels before. Besides, Dooku is a better duelist than Maul as well. 
 

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg. But then, Dooku had kept some secrets to himself. Just in case.

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil 
 

Has Beaten Asajj Ventress and Durge in combat

This fight was poorly written. Durge was removed from the fight by being beheaded, and when his head hit the ground, he grunted in pain. If that was the only effect of it, why did he not reassimilate his head back onto his body and simply reenter the fight? After that, Ventress actually managed to disarm Grievous, but then, for whatever reason, he just grabbed her by the neck and choked her into unconsciousness. That fight should have played out differently. For one, either Ventress or Durge could present a decent challenge to Grievous; so beating both at once is stretching. For another, Grievous is a better duelist than Ventress is, as stated by Dooku, as shown by their respective performances against Mace Windu, and as proven by their overall feats.

Far, far away, on a minor planet in a negligible system deep behind Trade Federation lines, Count Dooku of Serenno walked along the shore of an alien sea, alone. He had established his new headquarters here, and in an hour he would be back in the camp, surrounded by advisers, droids, servants, sycophants, engineers, and officers, all vying for his time, all presenting their schemes and stratagems, sucking like bees on the nectar of his power. Possibly Asajj Ventress, his protegee, would be there, clamoring to be made his apprentice. He had a meeting scheduled with the formidable General Grievous, who was even more powerful than Ventress, but a great deal less interesting as a dinner-table conversationalist. And of course at any time his Master might summon.

--Taken from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Maul defeated better quality opponents in combat than Grievous has, that being said I rate Maul being slightly above Grievous in terms of lightsaber proficiency.

Maul may have defeated better opponents than Grievous, but the combatants Grievous has fought are of an equivalent merit. 
 

What edges Maul out over Grievous is his command of the Force. This enhances his reflexes, movement speed, strength, and durability to be able to match the General's own formidable physical presence.

Maul is a swordsman, not a Force adept. His physical attributes, as augmented by the Force, and his Force senses are his most evident assets in that respect. His TK and TP are only moderate and not enough to make a difference against a character who can tank blaster bolts, starfighter blaster cannons, explosions, and so on. As for his physicality, "match" is the correct word, because Maul is not superior to Grievous in any physical aspect, and for that matter, Grievous' strength and resiliency is greater than Maul's. Maul's Force senses can be counterbalanced by Grievous' own peripheral threshold, which is markedly high to account for his usage of four weapons at once, and Maul's Force senses combined with his strategic understanding is leveled by Grievous' adaptive brain and tactical knowledge.

I still see nothing that places one above the other.
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#47 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediWaffles said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@JediWaffles said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@k4tzm4n: Based off of his showings against her, then her and Dooku, and against Anikan and Obi, (not counting the other Jedi he slaughtered and his padawan). I would say 8/10. The guy comes out of the gate strong and I believe he can overwhelm her.

Dayumn, that's a hefty majority!

Seems about right, though. Asajj simply has no answer for Savage's brutal force. Maybe in Clone War's next season, we'll get a different showing from her, but as of now, Savage takes this fight.

Yeah, with the way this season ended we're sure to see more of them.

Hopefully we'll see more Embo, too. They kept teasing us with cameos of him in the final episodes, haha.

Yeah i hope they have an episode or two with him as the focus. Easily the most badass character in the show right now.

One can hope!

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#48 Posted by Tiamat (2080 posts) - - Show Bio
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@Silver2467 said:

In duels, Maul has beaten the Jedi Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anoon Bondara, and Darsha Assant, as well as the Nightsister Mighella.

Another to add to this list. Granted this person is not really known/established.

Sorry scans are out of order.

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#49 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Tiamat: Not sure whether or not that story is still canon. That was the story that showed how Maul decided on the dual-blade lightsaber, but in The Wrath of Darth Maul, Sidious simply gave a double saber to him. So the story behind that being changed may have retconned that story out of continuity.
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#50 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tiamat: @Silver2467: I've always loathed how absurd Maul's forehead is in that corner panel.

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