Darth Maul, Darth Vader vs Snoke, Rey, Kylo, Luke, Finn, Chewbacca, Praetorian Guard (Canon)

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SirFizzWhizz

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#1  Edited By SirFizzWhizz
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VS

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Just these two Sith Lords vs the sum whole of New trilogy badassess in this canon base fight. Who wins?

Maul is Prime as is Vader.

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Tomkatie

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Spoilers

Luke solos all of them, and then dies because plot

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Richard96

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By hype Luke should solo. By feats, vader solos

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Maul and Vader can solo everyone cept Luke who by hype should solo both of them lol

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Dawn_of_Ages

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Luke who by hype should solo both of them

How though? Luke might be > than Maul and Vader individually, but even then either should be able to put up a fight against him. I don't recall any feats from TLJ Luke suggesting he could take both on of them simultaneously and win.

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blackpantherisb

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#6  Edited By blackpantherisb

Luke solos in a brutal match, based on RotJ feats he is superior to both in light saber combat, and after the last Jedi he is far superior in terms of force power, being able to project a physical construct of himself across the galaxy, god damn that was a good feat.

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americanspeeddemon

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@blackpantherisb: that feat puts him on Talzin's level who is only marginally stronger than Vader. Luke is on par or slightly above Vader in sabers and slightly above in force feats. Vader can hold off Luke for a good length of time while Maul fights the rest. Not sure exactly which team wins leaning TLJ team but Luke can't solo.

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deactivated-5a4a9a7745a28

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TLJ team, close to a slaughter.

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bigsambino87

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The next step has to be an animated series set between ROTJ and TFA. We need to see just how powerful Luke became. That's really the only way to determine his placement.

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blackpantherisb

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@americanspeeddemon: Honestly I would say that in terms of raw force power Talzin is significantly above Vader, plus Luke's fighting skills have clearly improved since he was treating Kyle like an absolute joke. Overall I would say that Luke could potentially solo if he plays it very smart, since he should be way above Maul in pretty much all aspects.

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americanspeeddemon

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@blackpantherisb: i don't see any evidence in Luke having improved his saber skills. Vader could more than likely also clown Kylo Ren.

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blackknighting

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Team 1.

Feats for Luke without hype.

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PenguinLover

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#13  Edited By PenguinLover

@blackknighting:

Blew apart a building simply from the backlash of apparently severing the connection between Rey and Kylo Ren, fairly easily overpowering Rey in combat while past his physical prime and having not held a blade for years, being able to conjure an illusion that was able to fool everyone (including Kylo Ren, Rey's equal) into believing it was actually him before humiliating Ren in the fight that followed, etc while being close to death, and finally scaring Snoke, who was able to utterly ragdoll Rey but was clearly frightened of Luke. For the record, this was after he'd shut himself off from the Force for decades, and was only just tapping back into his power.

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Erkan12

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BAH.

TLJ Luke and Snoke should solo. Those Praetorian Guards are already formidable, add that TLJ Kylo and Rey, team 2 wins.

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Red_Leader

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Maul kicks Snoke and then Snoke dies because plot

but then there is an actual fight my only problem is that Maul has a huge edge in Lightsaber combat so...

Maul takes out everyone except for the praetorian guards because Vader doesn't mind if he doesn't need to work

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Emperor_Jar_Jar

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Luke solos

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nfactor1995

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I'm surprised people were so unimpressed by Snoke lol

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SirFizzWhizz

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@blackpantherisb: that feat puts him on Talzin's level who is only marginally stronger than Vader. Luke is on par or slightly above Vader in sabers and slightly above in force feats. Vader can hold off Luke for a good length of time while Maul fights the rest. Not sure exactly which team wins leaning TLJ team but Luke can't solo.

Not to mention the feat killed Luke. Not much of a feat when you die from the effort. Sidious clouding the force across the Galaxy from all Jedi as well putting Yoda in a illusion to attack Yoda is far superior IMO.

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TheVivas

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Dawn_of_Ages

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How does Snoke solo?

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incursion2

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Team 2, Luke is Mvp

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nfactor1995

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Sy8000

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Snoke wasn’t that unimpressive. He showed a lot of raw power and choked Hux from systems away. Also people give him flack for poor force sense but forget how Sidious died. He just didn’t show enough and gets blitzed as far as we know.

Full canon includes Rebels and TCW which should be more than enough for the duo to win.

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TheVivas

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@nfactor1995: Then you should know why people view him as low as they do, even if that’s because of how wasted he was instead of his actual feats.

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Kevd4wg

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@americanspeeddemon said:

@blackpantherisb: that feat puts him on Talzin's level who is only marginally stronger than Vader. Luke is on par or slightly above Vader in sabers and slightly above in force feats. Vader can hold off Luke for a good length of time while Maul fights the rest. Not sure exactly which team wins leaning TLJ team but Luke can't solo.

Not to mention the feat killed Luke. Not much of a feat when you die from the effort. Sidious clouding the force across the Galaxy from all Jedi as well putting Yoda in a illusion to attack Yoda is far superior IMO.

Yeah, but for one Luke died Obi Wan style on his one terms not because of strain. You don't smile and die of strain he just became one with the force. Luke also managed to actually move the salt while fighting Ren which makes the feat even more impressive because he was actually moving stuff in tune with his illusion.

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GallStonesSu

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#27  Edited By GallStonesSu

Snoke ragdolls Maul while everybody else dogpiles Vader.

Spite.

Wait Luke? He solo's.

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FirestormFate1919

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Luke solos, both by feats and by hype.

With Snoke, Kylo, Rey, and huge numbers advantage this becomes kind of a stomp.

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nfactor1995

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@thevivas: It's also an unfair comparison as of now, because Snoke literally only has movie feats, while the other characters have book and tv show feats to draw from, which is where the more impressive stuff usually shows up. So to evaluate battles like this, IMO one can only compare movie feats OR draw in-universe conclusions that are typically entirely subjective.

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SoImMe

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#30  Edited By SoImMe

Vader sweeps the floor with some new meat. The only challenges team 1 has here is Luke.

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Snoke ragdolls Maul while everybody else dogpiles Vader.

Spite.

Wait Luke? He solo's.

Maul cuts him in half before he gets the chance lol

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TG_15

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luke and snoke are the only threats. The rest get chucked aside like leaves in a snowstorm.

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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@tg_15 said:

luke and snoke are the only threats. The rest get chucked aside like leaves in a snowstorm.

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Aka_aka_aka_ak

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#34  Edited By Aka_aka_aka_ak

Maul is hardly a factor here. Luke solos and probably Snoke too as Vader is weak to his force lightning. Rey and Kylo together could stand a chance. Team 2 stomp.

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Snoke or Luke solo. Rey and Kylo together could stand a chance. Team 2 stomp.

Snoke is not soling anyone lol.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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@aka_aka_aka_ak said:

Snoke or Luke solo. Rey and Kylo together could stand a chance. Team 2 stomp.

Snoke is not soling anyone lol.

Feats for Maul and Vader that match TKing lightsaber hilts and narrating their own deaths?

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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@trust_this_786 said:
@aka_aka_aka_ak said:

Snoke or Luke solo. Rey and Kylo together could stand a chance. Team 2 stomp.

Snoke is not soling anyone lol.

Feats for Maul and Vader that match TKing lightsaber hilts and narrating their own deaths?

Vader held a massive ship from taking off with one hand deflecting blaster fire with the other in canon. I'll try to find the scan

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TG_15

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#38  Edited By TG_15

@aka_aka_aka_ak: Maul managed to pull a large ship while running from pirates. Snoke isn't soloing anyone as both Vader and Maul has demonstrated better feats in the comics and the shows, which easily outclasses the few scenes we saw in the movie.

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Popping fully-shielded droidekas along with a good fraction of the separatist army is far more impressive than ragdolling three normal sized people. Hux is a non factor, Kylo's was adrupt, and Rey barely trained to resist a force hold of this scale. As for Vader, he crushed a fully shielded AT-AT and threw around ships. This easily outclasses anything Snoke did in the films thus far.

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AlexTheBoss

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Last Jedi team overwhelms them.

@trust_this_786 said:
@aka_aka_aka_ak said:

Snoke or Luke solo. Rey and Kylo together could stand a chance. Team 2 stomp.

Snoke is not soling anyone lol.

Feats for Maul and Vader that match TKing lightsaber hilts and narrating their own deaths?

LMAO! It's funny because it actually happened.

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Old_Blighty

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Luke solos in a brutal match, based on RotJ feats he is superior to both in light saber combat, and after the last Jedi he is far superior in terms of force power, being able to project a physical construct of himself across the galaxy, god damn that was a good feat.

I don't want to sound harsh, but how does Luke astral projecting himself to fight Kylo help him here? I know Star Wars fans tend to like this ABC kind of thinking, but if you ignore the force for a second and pretend this isn't star wars where we must all act as if knowing certain abilities immediately grants a bonus to all other abilities, and instead look at things objectively. What has Luke actually done, what practical ability has he learnt, that gives him any kind of edge here?

@blackpantherisb: that feat puts him on Talzin's level who is only marginally stronger than Vader. Luke is on par or slightly above Vader in sabers and slightly above in force feats. Vader can hold off Luke for a good length of time while Maul fights the rest. Not sure exactly which team wins leaning TLJ team but Luke can't solo.

Based on what? Can you actually prove that Luke hasn't deteriorated with his lightsaber? And can you prove he still has the stamina/physicals to compete with Vader? BTW same question as the other guy: How does astral projection help in this fight? Are they fighting on different planets?

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americanspeeddemon

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@old_blighty: i was saying at best assuming Luke was as good as RotJ Luke in sabers and assuming that Luke scaled to Talzin. I also think Luke is a little overhyped he's basically impossible to scale.

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Old_Blighty

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@old_blighty: i was saying at best assuming Luke was as good as RotJ Luke in sabers and assuming that Luke scaled to Talzin. I also think Luke is a little overhyped he's basically impossible to scale.

Fair enough. Maybe they'll make a comic with him in.......Its not like they couldn't ruin him anymore (shouldn't have written that, the last thing they need is a challenge).

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americanspeeddemon

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@old_blighty: I didn't think his characterization was too bad but they really glossed over his and everyone else's force power.

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Old_Blighty

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#44  Edited By Old_Blighty

@americanspeeddemon: I have to disagree; Luke fought tooth and nail because there was a shimmer of good in his father Darth Vader (worst use of spoiler function ever), and you (well, they) expect me to believe he would consider killing his damned nephew over a shimmer of evil? Really? They literally couldn't have gotten him more wrong.

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americanspeeddemon

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@old_blighty: TBF he only considered turning on Ben for a second and he did almost kill Vader in ep. VI. Not to mention he is forced to take a proactive vs reactive approach which also changes the way the confrontation would turn out. He also felt good in Vader but didn't sense any in Kylo at the time which is probably the biggest factor he knew Vader could be turned but from his mind probe saw that Kylo couldn't.

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Old_Blighty

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@americanspeeddemon: I think we'll have to agree to disagree; I would have found it hard to believe that someone like Luke could kill Kylo as he is now, let alone a much younger, far more innocent, Kylo (while he was asleep). The entire thing is just too cowardly and cynical, that's just my opinion.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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Vader held a massive ship from taking off with one hand deflecting blaster fire with the other in canon. I'll try to find the scan

That was from Lords of the Sith, IIRC. But yeah, I wasn't being serious. Snoke dies.

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SirFizzWhizz

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@trust_this_786 said:

Vader held a massive ship from taking off with one hand deflecting blaster fire with the other in canon. I'll try to find the scan

That was from Lords of the Sith, IIRC. But yeah, I wasn't being serious. Snoke dies.

Get me that scan.

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Aka_aka_aka_ak

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#49  Edited By Aka_aka_aka_ak

@tg_15 said:

@aka_aka_aka_ak: Maul managed to pull a large ship while running from pirates. Snoke isn't soloing anyone as both Vader and Maul has demonstrated better feats in the comics and the shows, which easily outclasses the few scenes we saw in the movie.

No Caption Provided
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Popping fully-shielded droidekas along with a good fraction of the separatist army is far more impressive than ragdolling three normal sized people. Hux is a non factor, Kylo's was adrupt, and Rey barely trained to resist a force hold of this scale. As for Vader, he crushed a fully shielded AT-AT and threw around ships. This easily outclasses anything Snoke did in the films thus far.

It's not simply a matter of who has the greatest feats, as no where would that factor that Vader is weak to force lightning. Vader goes down to Snoke's force lightning and Snoke has force telekinesis feats similar to Palpatine so should, under the right circumstances, be able to do something like

Animated GIF

It all rests upon how close Maul and Vader can get. If they can't get close Snoke does his 'force lightning coming upwards from the ground trick' on Vader so that Vader can't block it and gets fried and proceeds to do something like the above on Maul.

I'm not saying Snoke solos, I'm saying that Snoke could solo. He has likely studied Vader for decades and has the most effective force ability against Vader at his disposal (a seemingly unavoidable force lightning)

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Vader pulls a freighter from the sky. Although to be fair, the engines were damaged.

Vader, too, lifted a hand and reached out with the Force toward the other ship.

Vader enmeshed himself in the Force, in his seething, ever-present wrath, and used it to take hold of the freighter and drive the entire ship toward the ground. He grunted with the effort, his respirator increasing his rate of breathing to account for the exertion.

The ship, its damaged engines unable to compensate enough against the downward push of Vader's power, went nose-down and streaked into the ground. Vader imagined the screams of the pilots as they watched the forest race toward them. The ship disappeared behind the tree line and exploded into a fireball that reached above the forest's canopy and caused the ground to vibrate. A cloud of black smoke rose into the darkening sky. A second boom sounded behind him, his Master having driven the second ship into the ground the same way. The forest went silent for a moment in the wake of the explosions, with only Vader's breathing to disrupt the quiet, before the howls and chirps and squeals of Ryloth's fauna returned.

--Lords of the Sith

Vader deflects the blaster fire from a freighter.

The freighters opened fire, writing thick lines of plasma onto the air. The shots churned the ground, destroyed trees, heated the air of the clearing; one slammed into the chest of a Royal Guard and vaporized all of him save for his helmet.

Lost in the Force, Vader anticipated the shots that would have hit him, saw the appropriate angles of impact and deflection, and used the rapid spinning of his lightsaber to turn first one, then a second, and then a third shot not into the tree line but back at the ships, the heat and energy of the blaster shots driving him backward, warming the hilt of his weapon, a heat he could feel even through his glove.

-- Lords Of The Sith

(Credit to @zapan871)