Darth Maul & Darth Vader Vs Darth Sidious

Vs

Rules

• Maul (Clone Wars) and Vader (ROTJ) Vs Sidious (ROTS)
• Canon Feats only
• Maul with one saber (No double bladed lightsaber)
• Morals on (If they have any) in character
• Two Lightsabers for Palps
• Vader is in his best suit

Rounds

R1: Lightsabers Only (no lightning)

R2: All Out

Battle Takes Place on Mustafar

Maul gets fodderized like he already has been. Vader does nothing.

Isn't Sidious intended to be a direct counter to Vader anyway? lol. Maul is big jobber and loses as per usual, I honestly don't see the competition here

They would win

Probably Sidious still.

Sidious strangles them both to their deaths. The end.

Sidious kills them both.

@eredin12@godgate@professorrespect this change anything?

@hype2: Savage adds actually nothing to the contest, considering Maul and him got stomped hard by Sidious in Clone Wars

@professorrespect I realize that, still I figured he could be a diversion, ah well.

@hype2: I think the main problem is that Vader's suit is outdated on purpose as Sidious wanted a way to quickly kill him if he wanted to using his lightning

@professorrespect: Edited the post a bit, now does this change a thing?

I think Team takes it. Prime Maul is a decent fighter (Obi-Wan level) and ROTJ Vader considered Him+Luke as being more powerful than ROTJ Sidious. Luke is maybe around Jedi Master Level? Maybe Council-Member level at this point? ROTS Sidious blitzed that tier of opponent, so Vader is gauging himself at probably being at or above ROTS Sidious to even consider.

He also has feats to suggest it, such as Tossing ROTS Sidious immediately after getting his suit, followed by multiple statements and feats proving that ROTJ Vader > ANH Vader > Rebels Vader > Initial Suit Vader.

Theres also quotes suggesting Rebels Vader > ROTJ Anakin/Vader, I believe.

Sidious stomps. Vader is better than Savage in skill and consistent force usage but I dont think he's stronger.

Sidious will electrocute them both with unlimited power

Bump

I have a hard time seeing Palpatine beat both of these two at the same time, especially in the lightsaber only round. In the all out round he might be able to try and knock back Maul with the force to single out Vader, or hit Vader with lightning and finish Maul off while Vader is fried, but if he doesn't do that, I think the two can overwhelm him.

@mygod000 I'm sure you would be interested in this.

@redshift_bacon: ROTJ Luke is better than everyone on the counsel besides Yoda, Mace, and maybe Kenobi.

sidious yawnrapes them

Bump

Maul was able to give Clone Wars Sidious a fight this is Sidious a few months before ROTS takes place.

Vader wins if this is ROTS Sidious. Vader was able to overwhelm a maul level combatant who was using two light sabers, had the style advantage, as well agility advantage.

@hype2: Any version of Sidious is too beast mode for a team like this. Add in Starkiller and I can see this becoming a 5/10, but nevertheless this is a stomp in his favor.

@godgate: I'd like to see how people would respond before adding anyone else in.

that makes 0 sense when Maul alone made Sidious Struggle.

It even stated that Vader>ROTS sidious.

@mygod000: ROTS sidious wasn't struggling with Maul, you do realize he was playing around with them in that clip right? Watch it again and you'll see that he had many chances to kill them but didn't.

Vader may be > ROTS sidious but you forget about the weakness to force lightning in his suit that would cause him to lose this fight since Sidious will likely use that if he begins to lose (Which he won't) a lightsaber duel.

Maul is fodder here. Vader MIGHT be able to beat ROTS Sidious though.

Sidious more often than not.

ah...Sidious needed two blades to disarm Maul. Sure he had chances to kill him, but the point is he had two lightsabers in that duel with maul. also Maul was on the offense against Sidious in that fight.

Rebels Ahsoka>=<Maul

VAder with one blade had Ahsoka on the defense where she could do literally nothing but defend in the duel.

Did you not read the OP? there is no force lighting so...that is a moot point. Also, you are acting as if Vader can't Just do this

And Block His force lighting since Mace who is far weaker did it to ROTS Sidious...so again that is a moot point since Vader can defend against it unless you are assuming he doesn't have a Light saber.

My point again, Rebels Vader>>ROTS Sidious

Round 2 might as well be Darth Vader + A house plant vs Darth Sidious

@mygod000: Yeah, nah. Rebels Vader would get stomped in a fight with Mace windu.

Vader would literally destroy Mace Windu if you like we can make a thread and debate that Topic canon Vader and Canon Mace windu.

Right now we are talking about ROTS Sidious.

in a deleted scene Maul was able to pin Sidious down with the Force. Note again, this is only few months prior to when ROTS Takes place so this Sidious<=ROTS Sidious.

Rebels is stated to be Ahsoka prime.

Ahsoka prime<=Maul

Ahsoka was only able to do this against a toying Vader.

When he got more serious This happened:

a Charged Force push could do nothing to Vader, while Maul was able to pin down Sidious.

Not only that Vader falls into the center of the super weapon that uses a kyber Crystal which can life wipe a planet and walks it off.

This is canon Vader 22 years after ROTS; Vader 5 years after ROTS is stated to be the strongest Sith.

at this point in time Maul was still alive.

at the very least defeats ROTS Sidious handily.

Mace wouldn't even last that much better than Ahsoka did against Vader. to even put Mace in that fight means you must really hate Mace Windu.

LMAO, your hilarious bro. Your really comparing foddershoka to ROTS Sidious? They aren't even in the same ballpark of power. Also, do you take all flowery text from a video game as truth? If so, then that means that most video game characters you play as have ∞ power.

Tag me so i can see your post and do a proper rebuttal.

I never compared Ahsoka to ROTS Sidious. I compared her to Maul.

Who said His power was infinite? It said he was above Sidious, so at bare minimal he more powerful than ROTS Sidious. the game is stated to be canon.

@mygod000: That was me stating an example of when using flower-y text in video games doesn't make any sense at all given the context and feats of the character. Maul is still nothing compared to ROTS Sidious, so I don't know why your comparing them. Didn't I already tell you that he was capable of killing them with lightsabers whenever he wanted but simply didn't because he was playing with his food?

@mygod000: Sidious didn’t exactly struggle there. Not only did savage just die, which if anything would give an amp to maul (although he didn’t exactly seem irrationally angry), but Sidious barely looked like he was putting too much effort in that fight. Maul got a kick in and that was about it.

Also you can’t really use deleted scene for a fight, they were deleted for a reason and it seems like they wanted to present Sidious as the stronger user of the force. The scene was removed and that deleted fight was very different than the canon one.

Maul in the canon one got completely rag dolled in the force.

He also had just knocked maul out before finishing off savage

Sidious separated Maul and His brother, if you look at the fight he force pushed Maul then got oppress alone in a duel where he killed him. Doesn't prove he could have beaten them together at any time he wanted.

Don't forget Dooku+Ventress scared Sidious enough to tell him to kill her so Dookie wouldn't use her against him.

Ventress was at least good enough to fight a Toying Dooku, and forced him to Separate Oppress from Ventress so that he wouldn't get killed.

that alone shows that Ventress+Oppress together can kill Dooku. Ventress>>Oppress.

since you want to bring Sidious into this Ahsoka was able to hold off a much more powerful Sidious as well right after fighting Vader.

ah...we have authoritative figures in star wars saying a Fight Between Vader and Sidious can go either way. Implying Sidious~Vader.

At bare minimal Vader would be able to defeat ROTS Sidious.

they still exist in canon. regardless, Vader is stated by statements to be par With a much more powerful Sidious. Kanan even from Rebels compared Vader to ROTS Sidious saying he's never felt anything like it since the clone wars.

at bare minimal Vader>ROTS Sidious.

seems to be a decent conversation going on.

TC said Mustafar, so assuming the mining complex.

Round 1: The team, 6/10.

Canon Vader is much closer to Palpatine than his Legends version was and has a slight edge in dueling. No morals means everyone is out for the kill. Maul is outclassed here, but could at least provide a distraction and Vader has shown multiple times he will not hesitate to exploit an opening if he can get it. Depends largely on circumstance and how far into the facility the fight goes before someone gets lava'd.

Round 2: 50/50.

Palpatine has access to lightning, which could kill Vader, or at the very least create enough distance so he could finish off Maul and reduce the fight to a 1v1. On the flip side, if Palps goes after Maul first, he leaves himself open to being choked out by Vader.

Vader's armor isn't inherently vulnerable to lightning or outdated in canon, and that's before Palpatine gave him permission to customize it.

As I mentioned Vader alone takes This version of Sidious by himself.

The fact that he can't use Force lighting it as undisputed Victory for Vader.

After this was ROTJ Sidious who I have ~Vader, then it all depends on if Sidious can defeat Maul before Vader uses that to kill him. Maul isn't really needed, and people need to stop using Legends canon to debate Canon. Vader in canon doesn't have a weakness to force lightning, that stopped being a thing after Vader got permission from Sidious to upgrade his suit; Which he tested on the Grand Inquisitor who had just got done defeating a Jedi Master before Vader started training him.

ROTJ Sidious~Vader>>>>ROTS Sidious>Prime Yoda

@mygod000: Kanan saying that isn’t exactly the best source of power scaling. Of course he hadn’t met anyone as powerful as Vader since the clone wars. There is only 2 Sith and the inquisitors are no where near their level.

Also deleted scenes do not exist in canon, they are deleted. It’s in the dang name.

Kanan was their for the clone wars and was old enough to feel the disturbance in the force.

He also Fought the GI who before his dark side training was>mid Jedi Master level.

3 statements 1 of which is from the people who write the canon in star wars saying that Fight between vader and Sidious can go either way.

that right their lets you know they are par with each other at least, and you are putting a much weaker Sidious against a much stronger Vader...the results are clear Vader wins.

Sidious defeats his former apprentices.

bump

@masma94: I'll say it again, Vader alone in this particular match is too much For this Sidious to beat.

Massively pre-Prime Vader 15 minutes after His Match with Obi-wan could do this To ROTS Sidious.

this is 15 mins after a battle with Obi-wan; Even if we use the Argument that Vader was rage Amped in this fight it wouldn't make any difference because Vader 5 years later got massively more powerful than this Vader Rage amp or not.

5 years after this still isn't close to Vader's prime at all since his prime starts in Rebels which is 14 years after ROTS.

14 years after ROTS Rebels Vader>>Vader 5 years after ROTS>>Rage Amp Vader.

Even if we say Sidious was still more powerful than Rage Amp Vader in ROTS...it's a Huge Leap in Logic to say that Same ROTS Sidious is still more powerful than Vader 14 years later even after he gained massive power ups. Vader after he defeated his First Jedi Master upgraded his suit this was weeks after ROTS got more powerful.

Vader after he gets his New suit and got more powerful was confident enough to face Sidious if he was the one who put a hit out of him to have him Killed.

you guys are downplaying if you think Vader 14-20+ years wouldn't be able to kill ROTS Sidious when Vader months after ROTS, after he upgraded his suit was confident enough in challenging him if he had sent a Hit on him.

Vader 5 years After ROTS is stated to be the strongest Sith, so clearly he wins this fight especially since Sidious isn't allowed to use Force lighting which is his greatest weapon, even with it Vader wins handily with mauls help this is turned into a Stomp in Team 1 favor.

@alextheboss: I disagree. He may have more Raw Power than any of them, bar Mace/Yoda, but in terms of Skill with the Lightsaber or Experience with the force, he is far behind. Vader already has all of the Raw Power he needs to defeat ROTS Sidious, he has shown this. With the extra help of Maul this fight is in their favor.