Darth Malgus vs Weakened Vitiate (Act III)

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Dawn_of_Ages

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#1  Edited By Dawn_of_Ages
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Rules

  • Standard abilities & equipment
  • No prep of foreknowledge
  • Victory via physical death
  • Weakened Vitiate that HoT fought during Act III
  • Darth Malgus as of False Emperor
  • The fight takes place in the Dark Temple
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In-sidiousvader

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Im going to say The real false emperor walks into a lightsaber blade... again.

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deactivated-6098713be0993

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Im going to say The real false emperor walks into a lightsaber blade... again.

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deactivated-5bf470b432518

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xolthol

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@dawn_of_ages: Malgus was able to contend with a team made of the HoT, the Barshen'tor. And even though he loosed, he have done a pretty good fight. The HoT on Dromund Kaas (which is a DS nexus) was able to take down Vitiate. So obviously FE Malgus win.

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Both Malgus and Vitiate can be solo'd by the HoT. HoT was probably less powerful and more weakened by the nexus at the time he defeated Vitiate compared to when he fought Malgus. However that doesn't really give us anything conclusive to draw on as Malgus still lost.

It should be a damn good fight but the winner is unclear.

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killbilly

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#8 killbilly  Moderator
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Discipulus

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#9  Edited By Discipulus

FE Malgus should take it. I think that's the only incarnation of Malgus capable of winning, though, so good choice.

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redheathen

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#10  Edited By redheathen

I can't bet against Malgus. I think I might overrate him based on what I see others say about him, but I don't think that I do.

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slayne

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#11  Edited By slayne

@i_like_swords said:

Both Malgus and Vitiate can be solo'd by the HoT. HoT was probably less powerful and more weakened by the nexus at the time he defeated Vitiate compared to when he fought Malgus. However that doesn't really give us anything conclusive to draw on as Malgus still lost.

It should be a damn good fight but the winner is unclear.

Can't Malgus be solo'd by the Smuggler, too? I wouldn't be too hasty to draw on solo mechanics to gauge character ability, especially since there are statements from the website and such that confirm a team of the Empire's "most powerful heroes" assaulted the station and killed him.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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#12  Edited By Dawn_of_Ages
@slayne said:

a team of the Empire's "most powerful heroes" assaulted the station and killed him.

He's not dead tho

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@slayne said:

@i_like_swords said:

Both Malgus and Vitiate can be solo'd by the HoT. HoT was probably less powerful and more weakened by the nexus at the time he defeated Vitiate compared to when he fought Malgus. However that doesn't really give us anything conclusive to draw on as Malgus still lost.

It should be a damn good fight but the winner is unclear.

Can't Malgus be solo'd by the Smuggler, too? I wouldn't be too hasty to draw on solo mechanics to gauge character ability, especially since there are statements from the website and such that confirm a team of the Empire's "most powerful heroes" assaulted the station and killed him.

That's also a good point, the weaker protagonists can solo Malgus as well. So Vitiate really is in with a shot here.

There was dialogue specifically created for instances where a solo character kills Malgus. It's not a mechanic, it's a viable path. There are other bosses SWTOR has created that specifically cannot be solo'd and Malgus is not one of them.

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slayne

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@slayne said:

a team of the Empire's "most powerful heroes" assaulted the station and killed him.

He's not dead tho

for real?

That's also a good point, the weaker protagonists can solo Malgus as well. So Vitiate really is in with a shot here.

There was dialogue specifically created for instances where a solo character kills Malgus. It's not a mechanic, it's a viable path. There are other bosses SWTOR has created that specifically cannot be solo'd and Malgus is not one of them.

I mean, I'd take a direct canon statement from the website about how the fight went down over a single piece of dialogue the developers put in to entertain a possibility (which itself was brought about by game mechanics). Considering the massive inconsistency it creates with regards to Malgus' power level, which one do you think is the more likely? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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#15  Edited By Dawn_of_Ages
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@slayne said:
@dawn_of_ages said:
@slayne said:

a team of the Empire's "most powerful heroes" assaulted the station and killed him.

He's not dead tho

for real?

@i_like_swords said:

That's also a good point, the weaker protagonists can solo Malgus as well. So Vitiate really is in with a shot here.

There was dialogue specifically created for instances where a solo character kills Malgus. It's not a mechanic, it's a viable path. There are other bosses SWTOR has created that specifically cannot be solo'd and Malgus is not one of them.

I mean, I'd take a direct canon statement from the website about how the fight went down over a single piece of dialogue the developers put in to entertain a possibility (which itself was brought about by game mechanics). Considering the massive inconsistency it creates with regards to Malgus' power level, which one do you think is the more likely? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

I'm saying they aren't mutually exclusive. The website advertising a team fight to people as "team up and go kill Malgus" is not the same as saying "Malgus can only be killed by this team" - it is clearly supported in the story that any 1 of the 8 classes can defeat him alone, the same way you can take any combination of light and dark side paths and them all be valid outcomes for the story.

There's nothing to debate, it's a simple matter of fact vs getting on-board with the fact. Like I said, there are examples of bosses in SWTOR (Revan, world bosses etc) that can only be defeated by a team, and there is no valid path in the story to one protagonist defeating them. They could have easily made Malgus this kind of boss, but instead, in the base game, they made him soloable and added unique dialogue for every class that fights him this way.

It doesn't create any inconsistency (not that there isn't plenty in SW as a whole anyway), because Malgus always loses the fight anyway.

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dark-sith123

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The mentally frail Sheev rip-off walks into a lightsaber

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Weakitiate loses.

This

The mentally frail Sheev rip-off walks into a lightsaber

So Snoke and Valpoorion walk into a lightsabre simultaneously. Got it.

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ArkhamAsylum3

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#20  Edited By ArkhamAsylum3

@killbilly said:
@riddlerfan77 said:
@breakofdawn said:
@in-sidiousvader said:

Im going to say The real false emperor walks into a lightsaber blade... again.

Jokes aside the fight is really undecidable. Both Vitiate and Malgus (these versions anyway) have soundly lost to the Hero of Tython but we really don't have a clue as to the fight they gave him so the winner is undecidable.

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slayne

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@i_like_swords: Sorry for the late reply.

I'm saying they aren't mutually exclusive. The website advertising a team fight to people as "team up and go kill Malgus" is not the same as saying "Malgus can only be killed by this team" - it is clearly supported in the story that any 1 of the 8 classes can defeat him alone, the same way you can take any combination of light and dark side paths and them all be valid outcomes for the story.

It's not an advertisement for people to go and fight Malgus. It doesn't say "now, you must team up to overthrow him" or whatever, it literally states that "the Empire calls on its most powerful champions" to combat him. It's a descriptor of an event. You're right in that it doesn't say "Malgus can only be killed by this team", but it makes no difference if canon dictates he never fought anyone else.

It'd be kinda stupid if Malgus were capable of:

a) contending with but losing to the Smuggler in a one-on-one

b) contending with but losing to the Smuggler and three others who are more powerful than the Smuggler

at the same time.

There's evidence upfront of Malgus being blatantly superior to the four-man team he was supposed to face (choking three of them at once while battling the remaining one, bringing them to their knees with lightning, breaking through their defences with a single push, etc.) so I find it implausible that a quarter of this same team - and a non-force sensitive one, no less - would be able to best him in a legitimate one-on-one.

Originally, his opponent(s) won by simply cheapshotting him off a reactor shaft ledge with a Rakatan grenade. This could be a way to reconcile the two instances, but I'm not sure you'd buy into it given that it was removed in a later update. Personally, I just think that it was a purely game-related change to make the fight easier by removing a mechanic (which is supported by the game since you still get the message saying he's vulnerable to the grenade even after the patch) but make of it what you will.

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@slayne:

There's evidence upfront of Malgus being blatantly superior to the four-man team he was supposed to face (choking three of them at once while battling the remaining one, bringing them to their knees with lightning, breaking through their defences with a single push, etc.)

Yeah, the choke is gameplay mechanics, because when he fights three people, he only chokes two, and when he fights two, he only chokes one, and when he fights one, he loses the fight. He caught them with lightning when they didn't have their weapons activated per SWTOR's disarmed animation, and catching someone off guard with a Force Push is not the same as being superior to them.

Again, Malgus being solo'd by one protagonist is a viable option for the story, so he is inferior to them. Him losing to 4 people does not contradict him also losing to 1 of them. Your incredulity about what you think would "be stupid" is not an argument. This isn't a debate: alternate pathways for stories are canon, that's not something you can disprove.

Originally, his opponent(s) won by simply cheapshotting him off a reactor shaft ledge with a Rakatan grenade. This could be a way to reconcile the two instances, but I'm not sure you'd buy into it given that it was removed in a later update. Personally, I just think that it was a purely game-related change to make the fight easier by removing a mechanic (which is supported by the game since you still get the message saying he's vulnerable to the grenade even after the patch) but make of it what you will.

Gameplay mechanics are not and have never been canon, so the grenade is irrelevant. Malgus has been a soloable boss since SWTOR's launch.

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Just to clarify, I wouldn't put much stock in the whole "he was able to bring four of the most dangerous fighters in the galaxy to their knees" argument. That is purely gameplay mechanics. I went back a few months ago and completed the entire thing with nothing more than a companion, and my conversation choices meant that my character was never hit with lightning.

There's no suggestion or confirmation that it was definitely a four-man team, only that it was a strike team of some kind.

Act 3 HoT > Darth Malgus and a weakened Vitiate. It's funny to think how much more powerful than either we'd be now.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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#24  Edited By Dawn_of_Ages

Rise, my thread

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