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#1 Edited by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio
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Team Bald: Bane is Pre-Orbalisk

v.s

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Team Hair:non-spirit Exar Kun

Battle Rules

  • Morals off. bloodlust.
  • Distance 10 feet.
  • No amps. No trinkets or amulets. Just Standard gear and standard levels
  • Random encounter.
  • Fight takes place on Hoth. Because the cold never bothered them anyway!

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#3 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44276 posts) - - Show Bio

Team hair dudes...

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#4 Posted by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44276 posts) - - Show Bio

@okayalright_44:

It should be. I can even see a case being made for the other team.

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#6 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah team hair dudes takes this. Kun is quite superior to both. With krayt being superior to malgus. Malgus is awesome and one of my fav characters but IMO he cant hang with the top sith.

Edit:it would be an amazing fight though.

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#7 Posted by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Kun isn't the only one fighting and he isn't taking both Bane and Malgus in any scenario here.

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#8 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11592 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have to go team 2, even without amulets Kun is more skilled than Bane and could take him in a duel. Malgus and Krayt could to either way, Malgus is the superior telekinetic but Krayt is faster and comparably powerful. He might be more skilled as well.

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#10 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. More skilful, Krayt has Drain, and they are at least approachable to team 1 in power.

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#11 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

Malgus > Kun

Bane > Krayt

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#12 Edited by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. They have better force power.

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#13 Edited by DarthManhunter (1505 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2, Exar Kun and Krayt should be able to take a majority.

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#14 Posted by Mije_101 (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane is pre Orbalisk as per the op, meaning PoD Bane, meaning team 2 stomps.

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#15 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@mije_101 said:

Bane is pre Orbalisk as per the op, meaning PoD Bane, meaning team 2 stomps.

I missed that. Well spotted. Yeah, Bane (at his point) isn't taking on Kun or Krayt.

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#16 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: Its really debateable if he could even take them even as RoT bane. Krayt and kun are both monsters.

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#17 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Nah, ROT Bane with the orbalisks would annihilate Krayt. And he has the edge over Kun as well, albeit a smaller one.

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#18 Posted by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: Exar kun is pretty superior to any Darth Bane, He's faster, easily a better duelist and has superior force powers. As for krayt, thats debateable. Krayt could potentially oneshot bane with Dark Transfer, depending on how they affected his orbies.

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#19 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Kun isn't faster than orbalisk Bane, who generated a dozen afterimages. Kun is longer down, with only about 4-5 afterimages. Bane is on another tier pertaining to speed. And Kun is a more masterful Force adept in that he knows more techniques and rituals, but none of which he can/would actually use in a fight against Bane. The only point you're right on is that Kun is more skilled, but Bane enjoys a tremendous advantage with respects to physical abilities and the near-immunity to lightsabers the orbalisks provide him. He would be all over Kun and, with a considerably more impressive physique, would batter through Kun's defenses and eventually strike a killing blow.

As for Krayt, like with Kun, he would gets slaughtered by Bane's offense, but worse, since he isn't as skilled a duelist as Kun is.

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#20 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: Bane has never defeated anyone in a lightsaber duel without some situational "help" and or utilizing force powers, none of which would really help him here. Except Sirrak but he was just a trainee, He lost to kas'im badly once kas'im used jar'kai. And only killed him by crushing him with the temple. The only reason he ended up killed farfalla and the other 2 jedi was because Zannah snuck up behind one and killed them. Bane fought even with Zannah and she is in no way an exceptional lightsaber duelist.

Kun however stomped quite a few people in lightsabers only. He beat Vodo-Siosk Baas, Sylvar, Crado, and stalemated Ulic. Kun is a master of integrating offensive and defensive force abilities into his fighting. So kun holds a pretty big adadvantage in that area. Chances are bane is almost never going to outduel Kun.

As for krayt, he is a far better jar'kai master then kas' im was, and as I recall bane didnt get any better against jar'kai between books. How badly he was beat by kas' im shows how bad krayt would beat him in a lightsaber duel. Not to mention dark transfer.

Edit:as kun is a comic book character speed feats are a little harder to come by, Rather then having 3 novels :P

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#21 Posted by Mije_101 (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: Bane has never defeated anyone in a lightsaber duel without some situational "help" and or utilizing force powers, none of which would really help him here. Except Sirrak but he was just a trainee, He lost to kas'im badly once kas'im used jar'kai. And only killed him by crushing him. The only reason he ended up killed farfalla and the other 2 jedi was because Zannah snuck up behind one and killed them. Bane fought even with Zannah and she is in no way an exceptional lightsaber duelist.

Kun however stomped quite a few people in lightsabers only. He beat Vodo-Siosk Baas, Sylvar, Crado, and stalemated Ulic. Kun is a master of integrating offensive and defensive force abilities into his fighting. So kun holds a pretty big adadvantage in that area. Chances are bane is almost never going to outduel Kun.

As for krayt, he is a far better jar'kai master then kas' im was, and as I recall bane didnt get any better against jar'kai between books. How badly he was beat by kas' im shows how bad krayt would beat him in a lightsaber duel. Not to mention dark transfer.

Well said. Kun also stalemated Ulic before he constructed his saberstaff, and was perceived as a blue blur to the rest of the jedi watching his duel with Vodo. It's also stated no one during the time was any match for him 1 on 1, for what it's worth.

Krayt, too, is being undersold, having blitzed IK's while sick and dueled evenly for several minutes with a prime Kenobi while still only a Jedi.

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#22 Edited by Jedisupermaster (1811 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345 said:

@lamlam: Exar kun is pretty superior to any Darth Bane, He's faster, easily a better duelist and has superior force powers. As for krayt, thats debateable. Krayt could potentially oneshot bane with Dark Transfer, depending on how they affected his orbies.

Team 2 wins, but i wanna see some of Kuns speed feats. Because there is no way he is faster than Bane.

Exar Kun is a weak link here due to his speed, but Team 2 wins anyway. Krayt can use Drain on Team 1.

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#23 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: Read all the posts here and youll see some of his speed feats, and exar kun has drain just like krayt. Krayt isnt the only one that has it.

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#24 Edited by Jedisupermaster (1811 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345 said:

@jedisupermaster: Read all the posts here and youll see some of his speed feats, and exar kun has drain just like krayt. Krayt isnt the only one that has it.

I am too lazy for that, but has Exar shown feats that are comparable to Bane's rain dodging, for example?

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#25 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: Rain dodging isnt a speed feat, nor does it apply to what were talking about. He did that after he lost the orbalisks. Doesnt apply to this bane. And kun created after images, and was a blur to the jedi that watched his fight with vodo.

Edit: if you arent going to read other peoples arguements why are you here? You cant add anything worthwile if you don't.

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#26 Posted by Mije_101 (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: It's hard to quantify speed feats for comics, it's basically just afterimages and the quote stating the other jedi perceived him as a blue blur when he fought Vodo. ( Nomi and Uliq were in attendance, so that's quite impressive ).

He's more skilled than any incarnation of Bane and he's certainly faster than Orbalisk Bane, which is Bane's best version.

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#27 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1811 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: Rain dodging isnt a speed feat, nor does it apply to what were talking about. He did that after he lost the orbalisks. Doesnt apply to this bane. And kun created after images, and was a blur to the jedi that watched his fight with vodo.

Edit: if you arent going to read other peoples arguements why are you here? You cant add anything worthwile if you don't.

Oh, had to read OP better. But how dodging rain isnt a speed feat?

@mije_101 said:

@jedisupermaster: It's hard to quantify speed feats for comics, it's basically just afterimages and the quote stating the other jedi perceived him as a blue blur when he fought Vodo. ( Nomi and Uliq were in attendance, so that's quite impressive ).

He's more skilled than any incarnation of Bane and he's certainly faster than Orbalisk Bane, which is Bane's best version.

Well, Uliq was on par with Kun.

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#29 Edited by Mije_101 (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: Not at Kun's peak, he wasn't. Their duel happened relatively early on, and Kun grew in power to the point where no one was a match for him 1 on 1 in that era.

Also, Uliq is a more skilled duelist than Bane anyway, and Uliq was only on par with Kun sabers-wise at the time, pre-saberstaff. Marka made Kun the Sith Lord and Uliq the apprentice for a reason.

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#30 Posted by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: In what way is it a real speed feat? Its impressive sure, but rain drops dont move near as fast as blaster bolts/force amped force sensitives. If anything its a more impressive defensive feat then a speed feat. Not letting a single drop through his defenses. And on another note. Kun is probably the poster boy for niman. Which has no weaknesses in its form, and as kun is far superior to bane in lightsaber combat, chances are bane isnt getting through his defences. And especially banes shown he gets destroyed by unfamiliar combat styles. Kun has an extremely unique one, with the one handed double bladed saber.

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#31 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1811 posts) - - Show Bio

@mije_101 said:

@jedisupermaster: Not at Kun's peak, he wasn't. Their duel happened relatively early on, and Kun grew in power to the point where no one was a match for him 1 on 1 in that era.

Also, Uliq is a more skilled duelist than Bane anyway, and Uliq was only on par with Kun sabers-wise at the time. Marka made Kun the Sith Lord and Uliq the apprentice for a reason.

Maybe. But Marka Ragnos is one of of the most featless and overrated Star Wars characters. Still give it to Team 2 though.

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#32 Posted by Mije_101 (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: That I can agree with lol. I wish he got more exposure, he's pretty much 100% featless.

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#33 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Bane has never defeated anyone in a lightsaber duel without some situational "help" and or utilizing force powers, none of which would really help him here. Except Sirrak but he was just a trainee, He lost to kas'im badly once kas'im used jar'kai. And only killed him by crushing him. The only reason he ended up killed farfalla and the other 2 jedi was because Zannah snuck up behind one and killed them. Bane fought even with Zannah and she is in no way an exceptional lightsaber duelist.

This has nothing to do with my post. I never said that Bane was as skilled as Kun. In fact, I outright said you were right about Kun being more skilled:

The only point you're right on is that Kun is more skilled

Next time, read my post and refrain from the strawman argument.

Kun however stomped quite a few people in lightsabers only. He beat Vodo-Siosk Baas, Sylvar, Crado, and stalemated Ulic.

Sylvar and Crado are featless. Ulic is featless also, besides fighting evenly with Kun. Beating Vodo is his only good feat, and it only transcends what Bane has accomplished by a moderate amount.

Kun is a master of integrating offensive and defensive force abilities into his fighting.

Such as? Just about all of his powers have been employed under a ritual or within the area of a dark side nexus. I don't even remember Kun using any Force powers in a fight.

As for krayt, he is a far better jar'kai master then kas' im was, and as I recall bane didnt get any better against jar'kai between books.

Kas'im using Jar'Kai was a problem for Bane because Bane had never encountered the form before. Krayt being a more skilled Jar'Kai duelist than Kas'im (of which I am unconvinced) is irrelevant when Bane, at the point of ROT, is well aware of the form.

How badly he was beat by kas' im shows how bad krayt would beat him in a lightsaber duel.

Since there's a massive difference between the Bane that dueled Kas'im and the Bane that possessed the orbalisks, not really.

Not to mention dark transfer.

What? Krayt will randomly stick out his arm while defending from Bane's onslaught? Don't be ridiculous.

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#34 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: Bane, as I recall was never stated to have gotten better against jar'kai. (Not saying it didnt happen but I dont remember it, feel free to correct me) so you cant just assume he has intimate knowledge of it and/or gotten better against it. Again, krayt woops him just because of that. Hed have bane on the defensive the entire time and would eventually cut his hand/hands off or catch him with DT. and as its been shown, bane is extremely bad when it comes to unfamiliar combat styles. Kuns is something hes never even heard of, let alone faced.

And kun being a master of force integration. Thats what niman is, kun is an absolute master of it. Took it to its highest level, niman is all about integrating force into your fighting style. Bane would NOT have kun on the defensive in any way. Oh and about that featless thing, every single person bane fights is essentially featless. Besides zannah. So if you wanna start that arguement, youre going to lose it.

Kun could EASILY hold bane off until krayt killed malgus, and they would destroy bane together. Switch it around and kun kills malgus and krayt kills bane. Bane is the 3rd best here. Team 2 takes it.

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#35 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane, as I recall was never stated to have gotten better against jar'kai. (Not saying it didnt happen but I dont remember it, feel free to correct me) so you cant just assume he has intimate knowledge of it and/or gotten better against it. Again, krayt woops him just because of that. Hed have bane on the defensive the entire time and would eventually cut his hand/hands off or catch him with DT. and as its been shown, bane is extremely bad when it comes to unfamiliar combat styles. Kuns is something hes never even heard of, let alone faced.

Nonsense. As I said, Bane was losing against Kas'im because he had never fought against Jar'Kai before. After the fight, he had (obviously). Because of that, Krayt has no element of surprise with regards to fighting styles.

And kun being a master of force integration. Thats what niman is, kun is an absolute master of it. Took it to its highest level, niman is all about integrating force into your fighting style.

So what? The fact is that Bane has had several duels, and in none of them did he use the Force offensively mid-fight. There is no reason to think that he would against Bane. Not to mention that Kun does not even have any Force power he actually could use effectively without a ritual or a nexus. His only TK feat, that I recall, was ragdolling Sylvar, who is featless. His gauntlet would not hurt Bane either.

Oh and about that featless thing, every single person bane fights is essentially featless. Besides zannah. So if you wanna start that arguement, youre going to lose it.

There is no argument about most of Kun's opponents being featless. It's a fact. The same goes for Bane; I never denied that.

Kun could EASILY hold bane off until krayt killed malgus, and they would destroy bane together. Switch it around and kun kills malgus and krayt kills bane. Bane is the 3rd best here.

No, he couldn't. And Malgus would beat Krayt. As for Malgus against Kun, that is the only fight worth discussing in this thread and it could go either way. But regardless, Bane would obliterate Krayt, then help Malgus against Kun.

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#36 Edited by TheVivas (19264 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at the Frozen reference. But Team 2 takes it. Post-Orbalisk Bane would be a better, maybe even more even fight, but yeah. Team 2

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#37 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11592 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedisupermaster: He's left multiple afterglows with his blade, created afterimages with his blade, and was fast enough to appear as a blue blur to Nomi Sunrider and Ulic Qel Droma (Ulic has dodged blaster bolts, and appeared in three places at once).

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#38 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: Funny how all you do is assume, thats literally all your arguement is. Bane didnt fight against kas'im long enough to get familiar with it, nor did he fight someone with jar'kai again as I recall. Its dumb to assume he became intimate with the style of jar'kai without any statements or anymore fights against it.

Bane got absolutely destroyed by kas' im when he used jar'kai and itd be even worse against krayt. He is never ever going to just slaughter krayt. Not in a million years. Bane MIGHT win after a long fight, but hed never kill krayt before kun slaughtered malgus. And actually pretty laughable you ever think malgus would kill kun lol. Even the false emperor could never take a majority against kun.

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#39 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Funny how all you do is assume, thats literally all your arguement is. Bane didnt fight against kas'im long enough to get familiar with it, nor did he fight someone with jar'kai again as I recall. Its dumb to assume he became intimate with the style of jar'kai without any statements or anymore fights against it.

No, what's dumb is to argue that Krayt's Jar'Kai will take Bane by surprise just like Kas'im's Jar'Kai did.

And actually pretty laughable you ever think malgus would kill kun lol. Even the false emperor could never take a majority against kun.

Your previous Kun wank in mind, I'm not surprised by this.

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#40 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

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#41 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: It didnt "take him by suprise", he was unfamiliar with jar'kai and could do nothing because of that.

"You should have finished me when you had the chance," he said. There was less than five meters between them, but it was just enough space for Kas’im to give the hilt of his lightsaber a quick twist. The long handle separated in the middle, and suddenly he was armed not with one double-bladed lightsaber, but with a pair of single blades, one in each hand.

Bane hesitated. Few of the students at the Academy had even attempted to use two sabers at once. The Blademaster had always discouraged them from this variation of the fourth form, saying it was inherently flawed. Now, as he saw the cruel and cunning expression on his Enemy’s face, Bane understood the real truth. The battle was rejoined, but now it was Bane who was in full retreat. Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamiliar sequences of the two-handed fighting style. His mind was flooded with a million options of what his opponent might attempt, and he had no experience to draw on to eliminate any of them. Overwhelmed, he staggered back, floundering with the desperation of a drowning man. Within the first few passes Bane knew he couldn’t win. Kas’im had trained his entire life for this moment. After years of study, he’d mastered all seven forms of the lightsaber. Then he’d honed his skill for decades, perfecting every move and sequence until he had become the perfect weapon and the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy. Maybe the greatest swordsman ever. Bane was no match for him. The Blademaster was unrelenting in his pressure. He seemed to wield six blades rather than two: he attacked with a peculiar rhythm designed to keep his foe off balance, coming in with one blade high and the other low at the same time, striking from opposite sides at odd and opposing angles. Bane had no option but to fall back ... and back ... and back. He was fighting now with a single purpose: somehow escaping with his life. One hope gave him the strength to persevere in the face of overwhelming odds; one advantage the Blademaster had lacked during his own retreat. He knew the layout of the Temple, and he was able to work himself slowly toward the exit. Battling through the halls and corridors, the combatants rounded a corner to bring them in sight of the Rakatan Temple’s only entrance: the wide archway and the small landing beyond, with the wide staircase leading back down to the ground nearly twenty meters below. In the instant it took Kas’im to recognize where they were and realize that his opponent might still escape, Bane thrust out with the Force. He knocked the Twi’lek off balance for a brief second, then backflipped out through the archway and onto the landing. He dropped into a crouch, still facing his opponent. But in his haste Bane had leapt too far; he was balanced precariously on the precipice of the uppermost stair, the steps falling sharply away behind him.

Kas’im responded by using the Force to knock Bane backward, sending him tumbling down the great stone staircase, away from the Blademaster. The fall would have broken his neck-or at least fractured an arm or a leg-if Bane hadn’t cocooned himself in the Force. Even so he reached the bottom bruised, battered, and momentarily stunned.

On the landing high above Kas’im stood beneath the massive arch of the Temple entrance,staring down at him.

"I will follow you wherever you run," he said. "Wherever you go I will eventually find you and kill you. Don’t live your life in fear, Bane. Better to end it now."

"I agree," Bane replied, hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster’s speech.

There was nothing subtle about Bane’s attack: the massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas’im’s body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.

Unfortunately, he couldn’t shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed in a shower of stone, burying Kas’im beneath tons of rock and mortar. A second later the rest of the roof caved in, drowning out the

Twi’lek’s dying screams with a deafening rumble.

Pretty simple, he didnt know how to fight against it, and he didnt get better against it, its idiotic to just assume. You have no proof for any of that.

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#42 Edited by LuckyStrike (719 posts) - - Show Bio

Exar "MotherHelping" Kun

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#43 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Read:

Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamiliar sequences of the two-handed fighting style

The idea that Bane would be unable to anticipate the movements of Jai'Kai AFTER he fought it is ludicrous, considering that the style would no longer be ''unfamiliar'' to him (as he describes in the above excerpt). Krayt's skill has nothing to do with it. Bane was just unfamiliar with the style. After the fight with Kas'im, he would be familiar with it. There is no need to assume anything, considering the definition of ''unfamiliar'' is something unknown or unexperienced to oneself, and the definition of ''familiar'' is the exact opposite. So yes, it is outright fact that Bane IS familiar with Jar'Kai. Because of that, and his increased command of the Force following POD, Jar'Kai would not strike him as something he would be unable to defend against.

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#44 Edited by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam: LOL what? One fight, in which bane got wrecked and ended fast, does not make him familiar with it. He never got better against it, never trained against it outside of one fight. He didnt magically become all knowing of jar kai in that fight. Krayt beating EoS Cade while not even going full out is far better then ANY feat bane has, krayt wins.

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#45 Posted by LamLam (294 posts) - - Show Bio

@itzxsloth345: Do you even know what ''familiar'' means? It means to be informed of something. After fighting Kas'im, Bane would be familiar with the form. Why is this so hard to grasp for you?

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#46 Posted by itzxsloth345 (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lamlam:

fa·mil·iar

fəˈmilyər/Submit

adjective

1. well known from long or close association.

2. Having a good knowledge of.

Yeah wow, that would really apply to bane after one fight, which was extremely short, and he got owned in. Learn the english language. Krayt wins.

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#47 Posted by Renchamp (7739 posts) - - Show Bio

@luckystrike: Watch the language. Swearing isn't allowed on Comic Vine.

Moderator
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#48 Edited by LuckyStrike (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@renchamp:

What about derogatory terms for ethnics & minorities, can I still use them?

Edit: and women?

Edit 2 : where are the rules btw? I tried looking for them earlier today

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#49 Posted by Renchamp (7739 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
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#50 Posted by LuckyStrike (719 posts) - - Show Bio