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- Reborn Darth Krayt. RotS Yoda.
- Location: Petranaki arena, 25 feet apart.
- Fight to the death.
Who wins?
Who wins?
I wouldn't go that far tbh.
I would. Its one of the weakest incarnations of Sidious
And what does that matter? He's still visibly more powerful. Him being pre-prime is worthless because Prime Sidious would crush Krayt.
And what does that matter? He's still visibly more powerful.
Except he isnt
Him being pre-prime is worthless because Prime Sidious would crush Krayt.
Irrelevant
Except he isnt
What has Krayt done that puts him as an equal to RotS Sidious?
They're certainly comparable but equal is way too much of a stretch.
Except he isnt
What has Krayt done that puts him as an equal to RotS Sidious?
They're certainly comparable but equal is way too much of a stretch.
The fact that Reborn is magnitudes above his Vong self who managed to survive an encounter with Abeloth, as well as a bunch of other shit
Yeah Krayt wins. He is easily on par with Yoda by accolades, and his comparison to Luke and helping take down Abeloth seals that deal. Guy has tp wise reach across the galaxy and has shown comparable power to Muur/Celeste and that was weaken Vong Krayt. His unique one touch death force attack is alo OP.
Yeah, he wins regardless what Sidious and Yoda wanker fans may like to think.
@i_like_swords: His lightsaber skills aren’t on his level and his TK isn’t comparable.
I find it interesting that everyone seems to think Krayt hurting Abeloth is why he's so impressive. That wasn't even the main crux of my essay, so I question how many of you actually read it, and understood it. Krayt performed as an equal for Grandmaster Luke Skywalker, dealing out and receiving equivalent damage, both being brought to the brink of death and surviving, in a battle of pure Force Essence, which is just about the most fair and clear form of combat you could ever take part in. And he did it before reaching his prime in every regard. Making posts like this:
The Abeloth sh!t is blown out of proportion.
Yoda wins. Countering a force push from abeloth doesn’t put him above Yoda.
Hurt my head, immensely.
@richard96: Here's the short version.
The fight took place in Beyond Shadows, outside of the physical world. It was Krayt and Luke's Force Essences against Abeloth's. This type of fight:
Because of this, it's even more decisive than a normal fight, because there are no environmental factors. Unlike in a regular fight, where one lightsaber strike finishes it, both sides need to keep attacking each other again and again until one of them finally runs out of strength and dies, which again, makes it the most fair, simple form of combat possible.
And what happened? Abeloth put a hole through both Luke and Krayt's chests at the start. They fought back and hurt her. Krayt began draining both Luke and Abeloth, but then stopped draining Luke as hard as before. Luke realised that Krayt wasn't draining him because he wanted to kill him. It was because by draining Abeloth, Krayt was killing himself, because by taking Abeloth's essence into his own body, he wasn't being healed; he was being boiled alive, or in other words, just killing himself, and only by draining Luke could he offset that damage.
So Luke held Abeloth in a chokehold, while Krayt, with his arm lodged in her chest, drained her as hard as he could. Eventually she broke free and ran away, and Krayt's arm was still stuck in her chest. Krayt pulled his arm out of her chest with telekinesis, causing her Essence to pour out like a fountain, which was extremely damaging. She then charged both of them trying to kill them in a kamikaze style attack, by shoving her tentacles deep inside their bodies and ripping them apart. Krayt and Luke fought back and finally killed her, and then they both fell to the ground, nearly dead.
And that's basically it. Other important notes are that this was a huge portion of Abeloth's power, as all of her avatars became far weaker after she was killed in Beyond Shadows. And to illustrate that not just anybody can cause the kind of damage to her Krayt and Luke did; Ben Skywalker entering Oneness, and Vestara Khai drawing on the Font of Power (which gives someone powers on power with the Son if they drink it, making it one of the most powerful nexuses ever) barely did any damage to one of Abeloth's avatars.
So Krayt is basically presented as Luke's Sith counterpart, and yeah, in Legacy: War, his power and mastery of the Force increase, his physical body is healed to peak condition whereas before it was in a terrible state, and he cures himself of the Vong parasites, which he also had in Apocalypse.
It's for this reason I think Krayt could be above RotS Yoda and Sidious, but is at least on their level. Hence the thread.
@i_like_swords: His fight with Abeloth places him way out of Yoda's league.
@richard96: She was, pretty much. That's on her own, however, not when she has split herself among different avatars.
Well, my theory is that Luke might have been a bit past his prime during FotJ, and I'm not sure how powerful he is compared to DE Sidious, RotJ Sidious, RotS, etc. But other than that yeah, we all know how powerful Luke is, so for Krayt to be at his level before overcoming all of his limitations means he has to be right up at the top of the food chain. This thread was basically an experiment to see what people would say.
I reckon he kills Yoda with Dark Transfer in any case.
@richard96: Heh you and me both my friend.
Krayt's performance against Abeloth is very impressive but I don't think it's enough to put him at the level of a very near-equal of RotS Sidious.
Yeah Krayt wins. He is easily on par with Yoda by accolades, and his comparison to Luke and helping take down Abeloth seals that deal. Guy has tp wise reach across the galaxy and has shown comparable power to Muur/Celeste and that was weaken Vong Krayt. His unique one touch death force attack is alo OP.
Finally somebody sees past the hype
Krayt's performance against Abeloth is very impressive but I don't think it's enough to put him at the level of a very near-equal of RotS Sidious.
I'm interested in hearing why.
@dark-sith123: I know, I'm just curious on why the feat would put Krayt at what I'm gleaning you believe is about Plagueis level.
Yeah Krayt wins. He is easily on par with Yoda by accolades, and his comparison to Luke and helping take down Abeloth seals that deal. Guy has tp wise reach across the galaxy and has shown comparable power to Muur/Celeste and that was weaken Vong Krayt. His unique one touch death force attack is alo OP.
Finally somebody sees past the hype
I use sense and reason. Yoda could not even easy beat Dooku and many sources confirm this. Reborn Krayt is easily above Dooku by a good amount and Yoda's level in power and speed. Yoda could be argued more skilled fighter, I think he is, but Krayt skill is not lacking, and his Force Shatter Point attack is a wild card Yoda has no knowledge or answer too. Same for Life Drain. As proven Yoda and Mace had no training vs Life Drain which is why Anakin had to get the training and stop the Harvester.
People ignorantly wank Yoda and Sidious as some form of gods that blitz everyone outside themselves in a fight, yet Legends and Canon show they are only top tier among other top tiers, which Krayt is as well.
Its old but the strictly SW fanbase is not the brightest in debates. People who debate characters from outside SW as well SW make logical arguments. Just my two cents.
Yeah Krayt wins. He is easily on par with Yoda by accolades, and his comparison to Luke and helping take down Abeloth seals that deal. Guy has tp wise reach across the galaxy and has shown comparable power to Muur/Celeste and that was weaken Vong Krayt. His unique one touch death force attack is alo OP.
Finally somebody sees past the hype
Its old but the strictly SW fanbase is not the brightest in debates. People who debate characters from outside SW as well SW make logical arguments. Just my two cents.
Yea just to touch on this, the SW fanbase in general puts too much stock in statements and scaling than actual feats. Far, far less than what is commonplace in SW would be considered unacceptable in anime/comics debating
Don't even get me started on unquantifiable nonsense like Banite scaling.
@decaf_wizard: banite sith scaling is the worse.
@sirfizzwhizz: I mean its useful to an extent, just ludicrously unquantifiable
Logically, for example, Vader would be a dozen times stronger than Bane if Banite scaling made sense. But that isn't close to the case.
I have always interpreted it as knowledge and techniques and non combat powermore than anything else, although certainly it was force power too, just not to a ludicrous extend
Banite Sith scaling does enough to suggest Sidious' apprentices should be more powerful than Bane, and that every Sith between Bane and Sidious got more powerful than the last. The exact extents are hard to measure, but that doesn't mean the scaling itself does not exist. Facts don't stop being facts just because they are not clear to an exact number.
Banite Sith scaling does enough to suggest Sidious' apprentices should be more powerful than Bane, and that every Sith between Bane and Sidious got more powerful than the last. The exact extents are hard to measure, but that doesn't mean the scaling itself does not exist. Facts don't stop being facts just because they are not clear to an exact number.
Yes I am aware of that. Its just that its impossible to quantify to any degree whatsoever, as we know there have been both multiple massive setbacks and apprentices that died before their master could entirely finish teaching them, as well as the degree of scaling being almost impossible to quantify given there are probably a dozen generations of Banite Sith or more that we know absolutely nothing about.
Nevermind the people that think Banite Sith are automatically above non-banite Sith just by virtue of supposed "Banite scaling". Exar Kun and Darth Krayt would beat the vast majority of Banite Sith excluding Sidious, for example.
Banite Sith scaling does enough to suggest Sidious' apprentices should be more powerful than Bane, and that every Sith between Bane and Sidious got more powerful than the last. The exact extents are hard to measure, but that doesn't mean the scaling itself does not exist. Facts don't stop being facts just because they are not clear to an exact number.
Yes I am aware of that. Its just that its impossible to quantify to any degree whatsoever, as we know there have been both multiple massive setbacks and apprentices that died before their master could entirely finish teaching them, as well as the degree of scaling being almost impossible to quantify given there are probably a dozen generations of Banite Sith or more that we know absolutely nothing about.
Nevermind the people that think Banite Sith are automatically above non-banite Sith just by virtue of supposed "Banite scaling". Exar Kun and Darth Krayt would beat the vast majority of Banite Sith excluding Sidious, for example.
Pretty much.
There have been no setbacks in the Banite line. This is fake news.
Darth Gravid set the Banite Sith way back destroying much of their knowledge that had to be re discovered.
There’s quotes literally stating that the Rule of Two worked to create more powerful Sith each generation and yet people still ignore it. Lol
Also Fizz insulting people who strictly deal in SW debates and then praising people who debate in other areas as well is the cringiest pat on the back I’ve seen in a long time.
There’s quotes literally stating that the Rule of Two worked to create more powerful Sith each generation and yet people still ignore it. Lol
Also Fizz insulting people who strictly deal in SW debates and then praising people who debate in other areas as well is the cringiest pat on the back I’ve seen in a long time.
Not my fault you guys cannot argue with Logic or Reason. Your knowledgeable as shit. More so than me in finding quotes, accolades, or examples of something SW related. But yes, Im sorry, I feel people who cannot debate, key word, outside of SW stuff have shitty logic or reason on battle forums.
Sorry if you are offended.
Gean still beat Gravid and then took an apprentice who she trained to surpass her. So the cycle continued.
If anything Gravid's defeat helped the Sith in the long term. It wasn't knowledge that was the key to true power.
But there was an alternative path to those abilities, and it led from a place where the circle closed on itself and sheer will substituted for selflessness. Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn’t master through an effort of will.
Darth Plagueis
Will was.
Banite Sith scaling does enough to suggest Sidious' apprentices should be more powerful than Bane, and that every Sith between Bane and Sidious got more powerful than the last. The exact extents are hard to measure, but that doesn't mean the scaling itself does not exist. Facts don't stop being facts just because they are not clear to an exact number.
Yes I am aware of that. [1]Its just that its impossible to quantify to any degree whatsoever, [2]as we know there have been both multiple massive setbacks and apprentices that died before their master could entirely finish teaching them, as well as the degree of scaling being almost impossible to quantify given there are probably a dozen generations of Banite Sith or more that we know absolutely nothing about.
[3]Nevermind the people that think Banite Sith are automatically above non-banite Sith just by virtue of supposed "Banite scaling". Exar Kun and Darth Krayt would beat the vast majority of Banite Sith excluding Sidious, for example.
1. It's hardly impossible to quantify. We can get a pretty good idea of how powerful a Banite Sith is based on how far along they are.
2. There was lost knowledge thanks to Gravid, but aside from that, each apprentice became more powerful than their master. Fact.
3. People make bad arguments every day, so I'm not sure how this is news, tbh.
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