Darth Krayt vs. ANH Darth Vader

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i_like_swords

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Eh, Krayt basically ragdolling Cade Skywalker is a pretty incredible feat, given that Cade with just about no training was throwing ships.

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DarkDefender

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#202  Edited By DarkDefender

@shootingnova said:

Yes, Vader has a newer feat of literally Crushing AT-AT's. Not utterly, but it's still a very impressive feat. And Krayt's own telekinesis (by showings) isn't even comparable. It's mostly inference based on his other powers to judge his general power level.

Best feat I've heard of for Krayt is collapsing a temple like Bane did which is impressive but not up to Vader's own TK levels. Should be enough for him not to get overwhelmed by Vader anyways.

The feat for the ATAT was after ANH obviously but do you think Vader by ANH was approaching this level of power? From previous feats like collapsing a temple and stopping fighters midflight I'm inclined to think so.

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ShootingNova

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I recall Krayt overpowering Cade with the Force, but not outright ragdolling him.

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DarkDefender

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#204  Edited By DarkDefender
@i_like_swords said:

Eh, Krayt basically ragdolling Cade Skywalker is a pretty incredible feat, given that Cade with just about no training was throwing ships.

*Adds to list of Cade feats I know*

*Sees that its the only feat listed*

Honestly breaking through another force users defenses even seemingly powerful ones has really dropped down on my list of impressive feats given how often it is done by opponents on the same level or who are only slightly above eachother. I think a bit more context needs to be provided in these situations before being used as a viable showing. That being said it's still quite impressive.

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i_like_swords

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@darkdefender: There's a difference between dominating someone, and momentarily breaking their defences. Krayt did the former to Cade, which is a showing of being a lot more powerful than him.

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DarkDefender

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@i_like_swords: Oh cool. I still think taking Cade's feat of moving ships and applying it to his force defenses is a little tenuous but I get where you're coming from.

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i_like_swords

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#207  Edited By i_like_swords

@darkdefender: That's how it works. The more powerful you are, the stronger your Force shields.

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DarkDefender

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@i_like_swords: I understand that but I don't know if it directly correlates to your force shields like that. I.E. Krayt having Dooku/Galen level lightning while his TK feats are a level below. You know what I mean? Like maybe some force users are just better as producing force shields then others and vice versa and perhaps Cade's own were not as strong as they could have been because of this.

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ShootingNova

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Force shields correlate with your general, innate Force power, so just a single showing regarding a single power can be conclusive of your Force defenses, unless it's an inconsistency.

Now, an argument could be made that one's general focus (in creating and sustaining Force defenses) can be circumstantially hindered to allow another Force user to seemingly "ragdoll" oneself. This has happened before with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Maul/Tyranus.

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DarkDefender

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@shootingnova: Sort of what I was referring to. I guess I just find force users overpowering eachother to be inconsistent when they are equal to or near the same level as eachother and have relatively similar feats. I.E. Krayt rag dolling Cade when they have TK feats on the same level.

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Omoliquido

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I don't think that Vader's TK is so above Krayt's. The thing is that Vader has more TK feats than Krayt because he has a lot more "references" we can use than Krayt. Vader is the "villain" of Star Wars Franchise, and because of that gets a highlighted spot in SW stories. Krayt is one of the best characters in the EU, very explored and well developed. However, not enough to be on Vader league of "fame". This ultimaly bring us the fact that Vader had more opportunities to show his TK than Krayt.

Just saying.

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DarthManhunter

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@omoliquido: Thats certainly true, also true with every franchise, DC, Marvel, Image, DH, Video games for the most part, The guys/gals who are well known always get the spotlight. Which is why Star Wars we have to lots of times go off inference and statements vs "strictly on panel feats". Although there are tons of books and comics exploring many characters which is why I personally love discussing star wars but also why I easily get confused with Star Wars because theres so much. lol

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DarthManhunter

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Also get confused because I jump around eras alot when reading the EU books and comics lol.

Sorry for derailing here, anyway back on topic, I really have read all the arguments here, and really is a tough call being that its ANH Vader I am inclined to say Krayt for a slight majority but Vader could take a few rounds if Krayt decided to just try and deul with him, vs employing other powers while dueling.

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DarkDefender

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@darthmanhunter: Yeah I can see the arguments for that. I'm still of the mind that force powers aren't going to play a big roll in this battle considering how even they are. All of Krayt's special powers might earn him a win or two but nothing to tip the majority. The same with Vader's skill and TK advantage since it's only slight. That being said it is Krayt's usual strategy to force a duel first though he will liberally use his force powers when needed.

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Omoliquido

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@darthmanhunter: That's right.

I still think that Krayt's TK is very powerful, as shown when he effortlessly destroyed a huge part of the Sith Temple or when he easily broke Cade Skywalker force shield with his force push.

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DarkDefender

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#216  Edited By DarkDefender

@omoliquido: Those have been accounted for in this thread which is the reason why Vader isn't far enough above in TK to ragdoll Krayt or consistently break through his defenses during the fight.

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DarkDefender

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I sort of wanted to add this now that I've remembered a few things.

Vader is resistant to force drain because of the Dark Reaper story arc, Krayt's lightning ( hitting multiple opponents at once and killing them ) seems to be on the Starkiller clones level which Vader didn't have any trouble blocking, Vader's suit as of ANH is also insulated as seen in the TFUII novel.

I would give Vader a more decisive victory now that I remembered some of these. But still only a 6/10.

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DarthVader14171

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If this is ROTJ Vader he wins a minority .If not he loses

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Erkan12

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#220  Edited By Erkan12

@lukespeedblitz: Rebels / ANH Vader is his prime in the new canon, and LotS Vader is more powerful than Anakin, which is only 5 years after RotS.

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Azronger

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Krayt wins decisively.

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echostarlord117

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I'm definitely going with Krayt here.

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Zapan871

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#223  Edited By Zapan871

If this is Vong Krayt Vader wins. Reborn Krayt wins solidly.

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DarthVader14171

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Hey what about ROTJ Vader??

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deactivated-5a98875cd0f94

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Too close to call.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Krayt both rounds. Somewhat of a decent fight.

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Necromancer76

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How the turn tables...

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dark-sith123

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Why was this bumped? Krayt obliterates.

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PenguinLover

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#229  Edited By PenguinLover

ROTJ takes it in a very tough fight. Any earlier incarnations probably lose to reborn Krayt. Krayt is certainly impressive, but having him above Vader - especially as of ROTJ - just feels wrong.

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i_like_swords

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Come on, now.

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FirstFirmament

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Krayt

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IdrisianGraecus

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Krayt curbs if reborn, takes it with ease if vong, hett barely loses.

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King-Ragnar

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DarthAdi

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Reborn Krayt stomps. Even Vong Krayt wins easly.

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Masma94

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Krayt wins both rounds.

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Richard96

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Krayt wrecks house.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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I cringe when people ask why a thread was bumped.

Lucas never stated that TPM Kenobi > Vader.

OT: Krayt stomps ROTJ Vader, much less ANH Vader.

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MyGod000

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ROTJ Vader would beat Krayt. especially if he Revan or Dooku level.

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i_like_swords

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You don't really need prime Krayt to win this.

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MyGod000

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You don't really need prime Krayt to win this.

Not really...an argument can be made for Vader>ROTS Sidious in raw Force powers.

Krayt started out as a jedi Master, then left when the Jedi order was destroy to seek revenge for what Vader and Sidious did. this is when he spent 4 decades trying to gain the power to defeat Vader and Sidious.

Vong Krayt is more powerful than when he was Sith Apprentice, his feats of just destroying a Ship with the force isn't anything Vader or Sidious couldn't do.

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i_like_swords

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@mygod000: I'm curious why you're giving me a summary of events I know for a fact I understand better than yourself?

What's your argument for Vader?

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DarthAdi

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Reborn Krayt curbstomps. His scaling over Kenobi and apocalypse fight are too much.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: I'm curious why you're giving me a summary of events I know for a fact I understand better than yourself?

What's your argument for Vader?

I'm sure you do know more about it then I do, started reading it like 30mins ago; and determined that there wasn't enough evidence to put him over Sidious. I said an argument for Vader can be made that he is above ROTS Sidious at least in force powers.

If this is Krayt when he fought Obi-wan who was little post ROTS, is all fine. ANH Obi-wan>ROTS Obi-wan by virtue of him fighting and able to hold off a Stronger Vader than ROTS Anakin.

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DarthAdi

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i_like_swords

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@mygod000: He hadn't even taken the name Krayt when he fought Obi-Wan... and ANH Vader and Ben are stated by numerous sources to be weaker than their former selves, including themselves.

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MyGod000

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@darthadi:

Sure He didn't reach that Potential of 200% of Sidious like he would have, but that can be Contributed to Vader being always injured thanks to his burns from being caught on fire and lunges being burned to death, where he always need to will the force to keep himself alive and constantly heal.

If we all agree that Krayt got massively boost after he was no longer dying and healed, then the same argument can be made that had Vader fulled healed he be massively more powerful than he was as well since he wouldn't need to waste his force power to heal his lunges and everything and constantly needing to keep himself alive.

@mygod000: He hadn't even taken the name Krayt when he fought Obi-Wan... and ANH Vader and Ben are stated by numerous sources to be weaker than their former selves, including themselves.

there is only one source that I've seen that said they were weaker, every other source says Vader was more powerful than Anakin in the force.

an argument can be made that his sword skills was weaker than anakin even George lucas himself has said this but that cool I mean i can say he was bare minimal a high level 8 to low 9 at the end of his life.

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i_like_swords

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#248  Edited By i_like_swords

@mygod000: You can argue a fully healed Vader would be stronger after RotS, but the fact is, that never happened - he lost a lot of organic tissue that he never grew back. Also, there is a HUGE difference between Krayt and Vader's situations. Krayt, literally, died, and resurrected himself using dark transfer, and this metaphysical resurrection uniquely enhanced his understanding of and connection to the Force. He also fully healed his damaged body, including regrowing his missing arm, so unlike Vader, he grew back all of his organic tissue, which gives more access to ambient living Force energy.

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MyGod000

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@mygod000: You can argue a fully healed Vader would be stronger after RotS, but the fact is, that never happened - he lost a lot of organic tissue that he never grew back. Also, there is a HUGE difference between Krayt and Vader's situations. Krayt, literally, died, and resurrected himself using dark transfer, and this metaphysical resurrection uniquely enhanced his understanding of and connection to the Force. He also fully healed his damaged body, including regrowing his missing arm, so unlike Vader, he grew back all of his organic tissue, which gives more access to ambient living Force energy.

fair enough...but I have to say that Vader after ROTS did get way stronger. and Sidious noted that Vader still remained very powerful in the force even after his lost on Mustafar.

as for the living force argument...that argument kinda dies when Maul after having half his body cut in half regained his old powers he lost in TMP and was made even stronger. Grained, it was done with Sith magic...but than the question needs to be ask if that was true then why didn't Sidious do the same for Vader since he knew just as much Sith magic as Talizon?

My interpretation of it is that they remain powerful in the force and still keep their powers...but they won't ever reach what they could have reached. source firmly hit home that Vader was still growing in power all the way up to ANH.

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in FU2 Vader surpassed Sidious from FU1 in force powers.

this is Sith Apprentice Hett right? we are debating before he was taken by the Vong. Vader wins this in a good fight.

I will say this that Krayt most likely has better light saber Skills than Vader in ANH, but the force edge I goes to Vader.

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i_like_swords

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#250  Edited By i_like_swords

@mygod000: Force Users are spirits which inhabit a physical body. The body has midichlorians which the spirit channels Force energy through. More midichlorians = more potential energy.

Loss of organic tissue = loss of midichlorians = loss of potentail energy.

However, the spirit is made no weaker if the body is damaged. And the spirit is where the power comes from, the body is just a vessel. Maul's body was weaker, but his spirit grew stronger. His upper potential was lower, but because his spirit grew, he was able to actualise some of the potential he still had left. I think Vader may have lost too much and became weaker, but over time as he adjusted to his suit and grew more experienced he sort of took ownership of what potential he did have left. He is at his weakest by far right after he is first placed in the suit because both his body and his spirit are broken.

The version of Krayt pictured is Reborn Krayt, which is his peak.