Caedus has really no business fighting on par with Luke. And by proxy, Sidious.
If we argue that Jacen can give Luke even a close fight, how do we compensate for these factors:
A. That Jacen was given a boost right off when Luke stabbed his kidney. The surprise attack may have helped Jacen more than anything
B. That if said injury's pain can amplify Caedus, it's likely that other injuries can too. Luke not sharing this advantage
This "boost" is still damage and is ineligible in improvement. Gaining more power from pain is merely a normal sith attribute. Heck, Sidious himself has been cited doing the same thing
"And the circuit completed itself: the lighting reflected back to its source.
Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that poured from his hands only intensified.
He fed the power with his pain."
-Revenge of the Sith novelization
Yet, I don't see people saying that Sidious's lightning feat of bending a lightsaber is utterly invalid because of it. The simple fact is this, If a simple injury boost Caedus to this level, then it's inevitable that he will reach this level in the fight should his opponent be strong enough. However, injuries are injuries,
C. That had he not anchored himself to the Vong utensil, he would have received a premature stab to the chest
So this means Luke didn't completely bungle one of the best opportunities a swordsman could ask for, the opponent with their back to you. This fight literally started with Luke making the first surprise attack, which only resulted in a painful wound that fed Caedus, and got hit immediately after, and then only then pressed his advantage. How can you cite this as a reason why the fight is not close? Caedus was good enough to contend with Luke after he got in a free hit. Do you honestly think ROTS Sidious would have done this in the same circumstance as Caedus, and if so, what is your reason for thinking so? Luke had every advantage in the start of the fight.
D. Right off, Jacen delivers a blow to Luke's previously damaged ribs. We can assume in another fight, Luke will not have any of these weaknesses to exploit any more than we'll throw Jacen in there without his arm.
If Caedus's kidney injury and blows to the face were never cited to impede him counts as a net positive, then the same logic applies with Luke. He was dealt a painful blow that made his breath come in painful gasps, but no impediments to fighting were cited, so we could just apply that Luke shrugged off his injury like Caedus did his.
E. While Luke in his battle rage is the superior combatant, Jacen pulls off some sneaky tricks to his credit, with attacking his injured ribs and using the tentacle rack as opposed to fighting him straight on as we assume a saber fight would go.
That's the thing isn't it? The direct exchanges happened in between.
Again, Caedus has no business fighting evenly with Luke.
Fury, and Luke, by extension of having his perspective featured in this chapter, disagrees.
"Three YVH droids were left. And Jacen. Against Luke and Ben. Jacen was Luke's match, which meant Ben had to cope with three combat droids. The odds weren't good"
-Fury chapter 36
Luke deduced that Caedus was his match, and that it was Ben alone vs the YVH droids. So, unless you're going to somehow try to squeeze in an argument that Luke doesn't know how to assess and would play games with his son's life, this is clearly showing that Luke knows it would be an even fight. So, between an internet opinion and a book, I'll go with the book.
From the most objective outlook, Let's examine this fight blow for blow:
If it were the most objective, you'd be citing the moments when they contended with even clashes as well without attatching this idea that Caedus can only use sneak tactics.
Luke:
1) Roundhouse-kick to the chest, which hits his damaged lungs (from Lumiya) hard.
2) Jacen lashes him into the tendrils the first time. He cuts out almost immediately
3) Jacen punches him in the ribs, in the same spot as before. Again, the "barely healed" wound from his duel with Lumiya increases the magnitude of the injury.
4) Jacen kicks Luke in the leg, causing "something" to "pop."
5) Jacen drops a steel fixture on Luke's head, knocking him to the ground and breaking his nose.
So that's two strikes that are only severe because of Luke's prior injuries, and two resulting from Jacen's use of traps that he'd already set up. That leaves three "fair" hits, including the use of the environment in the form of the steel fixture, which is fine.
Instead of making this as a scoreboard of strikes, you should have cited the fight itself. In addition to the hits, which are fair. He was skillful enough to hit Luke that many times, it's just that the damage was circumstantial. Luke did not almost immediately cut out of the tendrils. It was enough for Luke to note that Caedus was getting up casually, and then cut out. After Luke force-hurled the light fixture off his back, Caedus flipped over him in order to retreat, and they had a brief exchange that yielded nothing for either. Luke leapt after him and dragged Caedus back into the fight, leading to another exchange, which lead to Caedus making another knee kick, and right after is when another elbow hit to the face. For some reason you left out this hit, downplaying Caedus.
Following this, Luke actively fought to keep Caedus from reaching Ben, but Caedus is cited to fight his way through anyway. Again, a fantastic showing for his lightsaber skills if Luke is unable to keep him at bay. Something you neglected to mention.
Now, Jacen:
1) Luke grazes Jacen's kidney with his saber, but Jacen feeds on the pain to make him stronger.
2) Luke hits Jacen with an elbow-smash to the temple that drops him to his knees.
3) Luke knees Jacen in the chin, and hears teeth crack
4) Luke kicks Jacen in the stomach, lifting him a meter off the deck.
5) Jacen blocks a strike from Luke that packs so much force it drives Jacen's own lightsaber into his shoulder.
6) Luke slashes Jacen across the head, leaving a "palm-sized" hole that reveals bone.
7) Luke hits Jacen in the eye.
8) Luke feints an attack, then Force-pushes Jacen into a tendril-draped rack hard enough that he thinks he broke it.
9) Luke is about to kill him, Ben stops him, Jacen drops the fixture on Luke's head and tries to run away.
10) Luke catches up to Jacen, elbows him in the face, and a bone shatters.
11) Luke elbows in the ribs ("like hitting a permacrete wall") then uses the momentum and the Force to throw himself and Jacen into a wall, with Jacen's skull hitting first.
12) Luke elbows Jacen in the face again.
13) Luke hits Jacen in the same spot with a palm-heel to get distance, and then Ben stabs Jacen.
The kick was after Caedus, through overconfidence, slowly got up, and barely blocked Luke's first strike because of it, which is circumstantial. The shoulder wound is not in response to one blow, but several, as the time Luke was fooled by an illusion, he noted that his guard was "broken down too quickly." The last blows you cited was because Caedus was choking out Luke with a tendril and fighting off all other methods such as lightsaber slashes in order to get him off Luke including outright tanking a hit from Luke with no damage as you've cited.
Half of Luke's injuries listed were only possible because of the injuries he'd suffered with Lumiya which were barely healed. One only possible because of environment. At this point, Jacen is helpless and Luke is about to kill him when Ben intervenes This isn't remotely debatable: Jacen's injuries are not only worse, but he had no such disadvantages going in from the fight and his kidney wound only made him stronger, as the text explicitly states . Did Jacen get in good hits Yes. But that doesn't make the fight close. A hard fight is not the same as a close one and Jacen was only able to make the fight hard in the slightest by exploiting previous injuries of Luke and using his own territory to his advantage. On a neutral setting, when both are fresh, it's evident that Jace will get steamrolled.
The injuries were because Caedus is good enough to get around Luke's guard. The extent is because of Lumiya. This leaves the amount of damage said hits would have done without the scar unconfirmed. While no one will argue that Luke isn't the superior fighter, and the fight leaned toward him being the victor, Caedus did massive damage in return, such as his knee being unreliable. You say he had no disadvantages, but being blindsided from the start is a disadvantage. His "home turf" was used by Luke as well. Caedus was just outwitting Luke in some respects.
Uh........ A hard fight would simply being a fight with difficulty. Luke was getting significantly damaged in return, and was matched in direct confrontation by Caedus more than one time. This was a close fight, or Caedus was putting up a great fight against Luke, whichever term you prefer. Meanwhile, no, it's not "evident" that Jacen will get "steamrolled" in a neutral setting. That's utterly ridiculous considering what he has accomplished in his duel with Luke. Would he loose? Yes, but Luke would not got unscathed. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise, especially since Luke considers Caedus his match when they were about to fight for a second time.
This entire thread relies on one thing, and that is a cancerous lowballing of Caedus. Downplaying his accomplishments, and asserting Luke's supremacy without much basis, while being ignorant of, or ignoring accolades that contradict the narrative of the lowballing. All while holding on some strange Sidous hype when a much, much stronger version of him was beaten by a far, far weaker Luke than Caedus face. Caedus would win in a duel against ROTS Sidous, and this is barely debatable on Sidious's part if at all. There is no way this incarnation of Sidious would have done this to Luke. I would love to see how horrendously forced an argument would be in order to suggest this.
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