Darth Bane vs Darth Maul and Savage Opress

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nfactor1995

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#1  Edited By nfactor1995
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Prime versions of all characters. Standard gear and abilities, all are fighting all out, and the fight is to the death. Battle takes place on Tython and they start 15 yards apart.

Who wins and why?

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TheVivas

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The brothers.

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Cosmic_Lantern

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Bane is zonakin level supposedly so he could win.

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deactivated-5c508820920c0

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Cosmic_Lantern

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GeorgeWBush

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Savage is already better in terms of combat force feats, together the team blinkstomps him

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bigsambino87

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TheMuser

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@bigsambino87: Well....@georgewbush Hates the DBT era with a passion, And has Bane at if I recall a Jinn level duelist and at best a obi wan level force user.......So there ya go

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bigsambino87

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@themuser: Lol, well, I actually am not a big fan of Savage at all, and I have been guilty of lowballing him, just out of pure disdain for his character, but yeah, Bane is definitely stronger than Savage, by a very comfortable margin.

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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Bros win by a margin, but it will be hard

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GuildSeal

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@themuser said:

@bigsambino87: Well....@georgewbush Hates the DBT era with a passion, And has Bane at if I recall a Jinn level duelist and at best a obi wan level force user.......So there ya go

As if that's a bad thing. Jinn is underrated as a duelist and is actually pretty decent.

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TheMuser

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@guildseal: Being Jinn level doesn't mean your a poor duelist, however DoE Bane is not a Jinn level duelist.

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kbroskywalker

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is this prime bane? than bane, oppress is fodder

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juiceboks

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#14 juiceboks  Moderator

Brothers damn near stomp.

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DaDivineKing

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Maul solos.

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WollfMyth209

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@emperordmb I feel like you have something for this, for some reason...

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laflux

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Greysentinel365

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#18  Edited By Greysentinel365  Online

@wollfmyth209: Well to impersonate.

"Bane has been shown to be comparable to the duo while massively pre-prime via his force wave that took out the Rakatan temple, which is comparable to brothers shown combined power here

No Caption Provided

Likewise he should have the edge in dueling in all categories due to his being stronger than his Orbablisk incarnation, being far far and away more skilled than he was in PoD where he was shown to be on equal ground with the best swordsman in the galaxy in Kas'im and out fencing Raksta, who via BM boasted GG level striking speed in addition to being the best duelist in the order, while Maul only managed to match Grievous himself"

Sound about right?

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ViperSixteen

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Isn't Bane a Dooku level combatant?

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WollfMyth209

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#20  Edited By WollfMyth209
@yousufkhan1212 said:

Isn't Bane a Dooku level combatant?

By DoE? Dooku+, yeah. Which means he should take it. ;)

Maul trips on his own foot.

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Azronger

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I've not yet decided where I definitively rank Bane, but anyone Dooku-level takes these two.

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LordOfTheLight

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#22  Edited By LordOfTheLight

Maul potentially solos, brothers wreck.

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GuildSeal

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I remember not so long ago people considered Maul a Dooku level combatant. What happened?

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Greysentinel365

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@guildseal: Time brings perspective/hindsight.

There's a lot of context to some of Maul's feats that was generally overlooked.

At least by my estimate he's still close though, not sure about others

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Zapan871

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#25  Edited By Zapan871
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ShootingNova

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Bane should be able to beat either but taking both down at once for a majority is a pretty unrealistic notion for someone who's no further than Dooku-tier at best.

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LordOfTheLight

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@zapan871

Not this time:)! I am really tired of initiating arguments. And I already said that they are close, which you also have probably admitted. So, for a change, tell me why do "you" think Bane takes Maul?

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Zapan871

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#28  Edited By Zapan871

@lordofthelight: Eh, I'm not the best person to argue for Bane, but mostly I think he'd win due to better feats, and accolades like being, decades pre prime, above Kaox Krul, who created a potent nexus, and being stronger than the nexus of Ambria (before Thon sealed it), the latter of which is an accolade referring to a vastly weakened POD Bane. He also has feats like destroying a massive 30 meter gate and disintegrating a dozen technobeasts. By Doe, he is also more powerful than Zannah (if we take novel blurbs seriously at least) and she was strong enough to shield herself from the ritual storm of the BOD as a child, as well as master Freedon Nadd/Naga Sadow's sorcery later on as an adult. Granted, Bane's talent in sorcery is very questionable of course, but I'm talking about power here, and even though he doesn't possess Zannah's magic talent, he should still be above her per Doe's back cover.

Imo, this stuff is a bit more impressive than what Maul has shown.

The major doubt I have about Bane, tho, is whether he grew stronger than his late ROT incarnation, and indeed one source states he grew weaker, though in fairness, it isn't entirely clear whether this refers to physicality or power.

As Bane aged and grew weaker after years of using the dark side, and from his injuries sustained at the battle on Tython, he became obsessed with learning the secret of immortality.

-- Star Wars Fact File 64 (Relaunched)

If he did grow weaker in power, though, his Tython feats wouldn't be scaled to Doe Bane. As for sabers, I think Maul should win for sure, tho.

And that's it for now, though there's obviously more.

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ViperSixteen

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deactivated-60cfeed0de1b0

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Good fight but Team takes it. Also, under stress Savage has been shown to be capable of some pretty big Force Feats. Don't lowball Savage

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TheMuser

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#31  Edited By TheMuser

Bane should take this on a individual level, as a team i'm going brothers.

is this prime bane? than bane, oppress is fodder

@kbroskywalker Hey man, if you want to fight that fight, be my guest.

@greysentinel365 Funny thing, your not entirely wrong, i'd be curious to see your counters?

it isn't entirely clear whether this refers to physicality or power.

@zapan871 In the Novel it suggests physical deterioration, however not to a large degree if I recall. Edit: Thats a factfile quote that only applies to canon, therefore it is irrelevant in Legends.

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Zapan871

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@themuser:

In the Novel it suggests physical deterioration, however not to a large degree if I recall. Edit: Thats a factfile quote that only applies to canon, therefore it is irrelevant in Legends.

No it isn't, unless you wish to argue that the events of the DBT apply to the Disney continuity as well, which they don't. That's blatantly referring to Legends, and thus it can't be relevant to canon.

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noobsnowman

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kbroskywalker

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@themuser: oppress is outclassed here, unless this is pre prime bane, I don't see what oppress is going to be doing here

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kbroskywalker

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Good fight but Team takes it. Also, under stress Savage has been shown to be capable of some pretty big Force Feats. Don't lowball Savage

don't highball him either that story arc is a massive outlier which is insanely illogical considering a supposed prime season 5 oppress with actual training got himself stomped by maul, quickly taken out by pre prime kenobi even with oppress as back up, before being the weak link in maul and oppress's battle with sidious. If oppress could actually force blast folks like anakin+kenobi, or force choke dooku+ventress when massively pre prime outside of that arc(which also featured ventress force choking anakin+kenobi) he would be doing way better.

And in b4 people try to use oppress vs koon to say oppress>koon while ignoring the context of that victory

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kbroskywalker

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@shootingnova: what has oppress done suggesting he's a legitimate threat to bane? And plaease, plaese don't use that arc from season 3

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TheMuser

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@kbroskywalker: All I am saying is watching you defend Bane will be.....interesting......

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deactivated-6249a821a8c64

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Bane should be able to beat either but taking both down at once for a majority is a pretty unrealistic notion for someone who's no further than Dooku-tier at best.

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@kbroskywalker

what has oppress done suggesting he's a legitimate threat to bane?

Bane is wildly regarded as a Dooku level opponent, and Savage is a confirmed threat to Dooku. Dooku himself has even acknowledged it for a fact when sensing Savage's growing power.

Count Dooku: I can sense him, Grievous. That creature, Savage Opress, is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes.

General Grievous: You consider him a threat?

Count Dooku: He is a threat to all of us, even the Jedi. With the Nightsisters eradicated, there is no one left to control him. Something is rising... Something: Sinister.

- TCW S4: Brothers.

Regardless of whether you like it or not, it's a fact that Savage is a legitimate threat to Dooku, so if he's a threat to Dooku, then he's a threat to anyone on Dooku's level and below and won't get stomped by them. And when I say "stomp", I mean he won't get one shotted whether it's through the use of the Force or being speed blitzed. And this fact was established in TCW S4 in dialogue from Dooku.

And plaease, plaese don't use that arc from season 3

You realise that most of Savage's feat in TCW S3 were circumstantial right? They were not PIS. There's a huge difference between Circumstantial feats and PIS feats. Savage's feat of Force choking Dooku and Ventress only happened because they were caught off guard and distracted. How is being Force choked while distracted and caught off guard PIS and an outlier? Oh wait it isn't PIS and an outlier, it's circumstantial. Stop using the wrong terms.

No Caption Provided

Savage's feat of breaking through Anakin and Obi-Wan's Force barrier with a Force wave was because Anakin and Obi-Wan were caught off guard. Just look at the GIF, Anakin and Kenobi clearly had their backs turned, which means they were in no position to defend themselves from such an attack. How is being caught off guard by a Force Wave PIS? Force users have had their Force barriers broken many times because of letting their guards down and being distracted, this is just another example.

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kbroskywalker

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@yousufkhan1212: Savage being a threat had nothing to do with his power at the moment. And yes oppress somehow force choking dooku+ventress s pis as is ventress force choking anakin+kenobi is pis

What happened with the more powerufls eason 5 oppress? Well he got quickly taken down by kenobi with maul there to help, and lol stomped by maul in 5 seconds. Oppress isn't a threat to dooku uless you use circumstantial/pis feats. He's utterly outclassed by maul let alone bane so no, he's not a threat.

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LordOfTheLight

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#43  Edited By LordOfTheLight

@zapan871

Your knowledge is more than sufficient.

above Kaox Krul, who created a potent nexus

No he didn't or at the very least, not alone. Crian Maru had also fallen to the dark side. I would argue that that would have a greater effect as a light sider falling to the dark side is more significant. And it happened because they fought for hours, and then killed each other simultaneously. As for the place, the dark side was stronger there obviously, but that wasn't due to Kaox Krul. The fact that a child had been killed, and that an otherwise dedicated Jedi Knight fell to the dark side, and just to avenge her Padawan, would honestly have a greater impact on the place being a DS Nexus than Krul would. As for the "potent" part:

It was more swamp than lake, actually The trees around it were twisted and black, with barren branches that reached like skeletal limbs toward the dark, muddy center. The whole place felt ill, deformed. Haunted.

....

He looked out over the bleak lake, trying to make sense of what happened. All he found in the Force, though, was darkness and despair.

Credit: Darkness Shared

The darkness and the "despair" in the force had happened simply due to the tragedy that ensued, and this is in no way, potent. I really( severely) doubt that his power alone would be the reason for this place to be filled with "despair" and darkness.

being stronger than the nexus of Ambria (before Thon sealed it)

Where was this stated? If you are referring to the argument about the Huntress, first of all, she just saw the past, there is no telling how much she estimated the power of Ambria. She also saw it in the past, so obviously, the power she felt wouldn't have been what it really was.

He also has feats like destroying a massive 30 meter gate

He didn't destroy it bro, he merely tore it off its hinges and pushed it inside, in his prime. Also I don't want to nitpick on this thing, but the walls rose up to 30 metres, we are simply assuming that the gates also rose up to that height.

disintegrating a dozen technobeasts.

If he did grow weaker in power, though, his Tython feats wouldn't be scaled to Doe Bane.

Ironically, it is this reason why he "did" grow weaker in DoE than in late ROT. As for the scaling, that is due to an argument presented on the basis of Zannah, which isn't convincing actually.

she was strong enough to shield herself from the ritual storm of the BOD as a child

It wasn't a planet wide storm by any means. The army of light were still on the planet. Yeah, she was, only, the same ritual caused Bane headaches and hallucinations for hours/days. And she was just kilometres away. And also strong enough to resist it( completely) were the two fodder Jedi whose necks she snapped with the force.

Imo, this stuff is a bit more impressive than what Maul has shown.

I don't know, holding a very convincing edge over Obi Wan and Qui Gon, leaving behind a nexus on the very same spot( though the exact same argument for Kaox Krul applies here as well, but it is worth a mention), all pre prime, Savage Opress being in awe of his power, him creating a disturbance in the force itself which can be felt by Obi Wan, Yoda, Anakin( and Sidious) from across the galaxy, dragging massive shuttles while injured, casually collapsing caves, beating almost 2nd year of TCW Obi Wan, blasting back an army along with Savage Opress( who was in awe of is power), and of course his trump card, surviving being cut in half, and even using the force afterwards( not only is base Maul pre-prime, but the fact that he can tank such an injury and then use a force pull when his potential/power is obviously reduced on being cut in half is pretty impressive, and actually more than what it seems), and many more are a tad more impressive than what Bane has done.

The major doubt I have about Bane, tho, is whether he grew stronger than his late ROT incarnation

No IMO, he actually grew weaker. There is a slew of quotes implying it, and the one you posted actually states it( wasn't aware of it). The main argument for it is, derived from proving increase in Force Augmentation, based scaling off Zannah, that too on a single exchange of blades, and even that was before he was in the vicinity of the bastion of dark side power, Tython, and the nexus of Darzu's temple! Actually that isn't convincing. First off:

The aging process was subtle, but inescapable. Bane accepted this; what he lost in strength and speed he could easily compensate for with wisdom, knowledge, and experience.

Credit: Dynasty of Evil

The strength "may" refer to physical strength, but the loss in speed clearly, and irrefutably says that his force augmentation( and by extension, power) had decreased.

Then you have this:

But a tiny sliver of the brute strength he once possessed had been whittled away.

Credit: Dynasty of Evil

Which clearly says that his physicals had degraded only by a small amount which means that if his speed has decreased, his force power has too( through the same augmentation).

Further we also have this which you gave:

As Bane aged and grew weaker after years of using the dark side, and from his injuries sustained at the battle on Tython, he became obsessed with learning the secret of immortality.

Credit: Star Wars Fact File 64 ( Relaunched)

Which is further evidence of the matter. And now, for a feat by feat comparison:

Bane thrust out with the Force, and a dozen of the oncoming creatures exploded into dust and tiny flecks of small, twisted metal.

Credit: Rule of Two

So here, in the nexus of Tython, he basically disintegrated a dozen "mechanical" monsters, which are no doubt harder, faster, stronger than normal humans. Further some of them were creatures like rancors, which are quite larger than even Bane himself. He actually disintegrates two more. But even after this, he doesn't seem to be exhausted at all given by:

The slaughter lasted over an hour. He used his lightsaber to repeatedly dismember his enemies, conserving his Force abilities to stave off exhaustion in arms, legs, shoulders, and back. Three times during the one-sided melee he allowed himself to lose focus, his martial instincts thrown out of sync by the unnerving silence of his enemies as they were butchered. Each time his attention lapsed he was knocked to the ground by the blows of one of the lumbering creatures that got close enough to make contact and forced to battle his way back to his feet. Two other times during the battle he felt the burning in his brain as the orbalisks purged his system of yet another cloud of nanogene spores he had unknowingly inhaled.

Credit: Rule of Two

So he managed to fight and kill these creatures for over an hour, which is a very long time, relatively speaking, after he disintegrated 14 technobeasts. Let us compare this to his similar fight in DoE:

Bane extinguished his weapon and stood perfectly still, allowing the swarming horde to close in on him as he gathered his strength. He called upon the power of the temple itself, feeding on it to bolster his own abilities as he created a deadly field around his body. It began as a tight circle, but quickly spread outward until it extended to a radius of ten meters, with the Sith Lord at the center. The air within the circumference of the field suddenly became darker, as if the light from the red sun above had been suddenly dimmed.

Cloaked in the shadowy gloom, Bane simply held his ground against the enemy assault. The front ranks of onrushing cultists shrieked in agony as they entered the field, their life essence violently sucked out of their bodies, aging them a thousand years in only a few seconds. Muscles and tendons atrophied instantaneously; their skin withered and shrank, pulling tight across their bones. Eyes and tongues shriveled, turning them into mummified husks before their desiccated flesh crumbled away, leaving only skeletal remains and a few strands of hair.

The effort of creating an aura of pure dark side energy would have quickly exhausted even Bane.

Credit: Dynasty of Evil

So around 15 cultists were destroyed in the process. And even then, Bane would have gotten exhausted after performing this feat. Now if you think that it wasn't a simple disintegration, but an "aura of dark energy", the power of the aura is questionable given that the cultists weren't destroyed, as in disintegrated completely, and some skeletal parts of the cultists still managed to remain, and in ROT we are talking of things outright much better than them, and in similar numbers. At best, the power of this aura is around equal to the power of the force that he used to disintegrate the technobeasts, and he was exhausted after doing this in DoE( Big thing, coming straight from the pen of Drew Karpyshyn), while he was just unfazed after the same in late ROT. His "field of death"( I believe the technique is actually canonical in the EU, and is named something like this)'s power at best, was equal to the power he used in late ROT, and we can clearly compare their condition afterwards. All in all, I think it is rather firmly set that DoE Bane is weaker than ROT( late) Bane in the force, and in physicals( by a small amount, though the rate of degradation at that point had started reaching unprecedented levels, still his physical condition, at that point was only somewhat lesser than his ROT form, barring the impenetrable shells of the Orbalisks of course).

Now, this as it is is just plain unfair to Bane, as of DoE, and I have already stated my opinion on it. Now, late ROT Bane vs Maul and Savage, will be pretty interesting to watch. Collectively, their force power should be only just greater than his own( as he is obviously greater than DoE Bane in that regard, and IMO, notably), but the Orbalisks, not only ensure him unlimited offense, but I also don't believe Savage is skilled enough to penetrate that small spot in Bane's hand, or powerful enough to contend with this version of Bane. I think the battle should "logically" be a small edge in favor of the team, but we know that team ups don't exactly work seamlessly in SW, so Bane could take it in that regard. Then again, even BM amped Farfalla and Raskta would get straight up massacred by the brothers, and while in the BM, were holding their own rather impressively with Bane. All in all, that would be a great fight.

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kbroskywalker

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#45  Edited By Nerise

Damn star wars threads suck

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ViperSixteen

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@kbroskywalker:

Savage being a threat had nothing to do with his power at the moment.

Lol yes it did, Dooku sensed Savage's strength in the Force and informed Grievous, Grievous asked if he considered the Zabrack a threat and Dooku confirmed it. The context of the scene makes it evident Savage is a threat to Dooku.

And yes oppress somehow force choking dooku+ventress s pis as is ventress force choking anakin+kenobi is pis

Except the difference is that Dooku and Ventress were caught off guard and distracted whereas Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't. I agree that Ventress Force choking Anakin and Kenobi was PIS though.

What happened with the more powerufls eason 5 oppress?

I don't know, you ask me :)

Well he got quickly taken down by kenobi with maul there to help,

Dooku isn't anything like Kenobi in combat. Dooku isn't a guy who would use Battle Meditation that is similar to being amped with a heightened level of focus, nor would he use Jar Kai (not counting AOTC Comic Book because it's an outlier), nor is he as physically powerful as Kenobi, nor would he have the circumstantial advantage of being in a corridor with limited space that would weaken Maul and Savage.

Ever heard of context?

and lol stomped by maul in 5 seconds.

Which was a physical feat for Maul. Maul disarmed Savage of his lightsaber by grabbing him by the arm, pulled it up with a grip that's so powerful he had control over Savage's limb, and floored him through the use of his Cybernetic legs.

Yes Dooku is in excellent physical condition for his age, but Maul and Kenobi are much more physically capable than Dooku. I don't think you would go as far as trying to dispute that.

Oppress isn't a threat to dooku uless you use circumstantial/pis feats.

Too bad I didn't use any circumstantial/PIS feats. I used a line of dialogue where Dooku realised Savage's growing strength in the Force.

He's utterly outclassed by maul let alone bane so no, he's not a threat.

But Bane is roughly on the same level as Dooku based on feats and what is widely accepted and believed on this Forum unless if you want to argue that Bane is significantly better than Dooku...

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#47  Edited By kbroskywalker

@yousufkhan1212:

Lol yes it did, Dooku sensed Savage's strength in the Force and informed Grievous, Grievous asked if he considered the Zabrack a threat and Dooku confirmed it. The context of the scene makes it evident Savage is a threat to Dooku.

Dooku was threatened by oppress in the same way sidious was threatened by ventress. Oppress has immense raw power, like ventress, but he never reached the satge where it could actually threaten dooku without circumstantial factors.

Except the difference is that Dooku and Ventress were caught off guard and distracted whereas Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't. I agree that Ventress Force choking Anakin and Kenobi was PIS though.

And why would bane be distracted or caught off guard here?

I don't know, you ask me :)

You doing a smile face

I find that...

DISTURBING

Dooku isn't anything like Kenobi in combat. Dooku isn't a guy who would use Battle Meditation that is similar to being amped with a heightened level of focus, nor would he use Jar Kai (not counting AOTC Comic Book because it's an outlier), nor is he as physically powerful as Kenobi, nor would he have the circumstantial advantage of being in a corridor with limited space that would weaken Maul and Savage.

Ever heard of context?

a. Kenobi's focusing himself improves himself as a combatant, dooku doesn't need to focus himself to be capable of replicating kenobi's performance as dooku is already on the level of rots kenobi(who like tcw kenobi could focus himself), let alone his pre prime- trading losses and wins with grevious as of season 7- tcw self. Dooku has shown he's more skilled an unarmed combatant and has more than compensated for physical disadvantages leaving kenobi "bonelessly limp" with his kicks, sending kenobi several feet into the air, and even picking up and throwing kenobi. Kenobi incapped oppress via his skill, dooku is more skilled and can do the same and as shown by how he's fared unarmed vs kenobi, he certainly compensates for physical disadvantages and as shown vs grevious/ventress/kenobi, he can even win unarmed bouts with vastly superior physical opponents.

Dooku unlike kenobi has extensive experience vs multiple duelistsincluding anakin+kenobi which is a superior duo to maul+oppress. Dooku also is willing to use the force, has far more showings of using the force in the midst of a lightsaber duel, is more powerful(and vastly more powerful than tcw kenobi who has been force blasted by folks like ventress right before the outer rim seiges), and doesn't refrain from offensive force use. Dooku is also more skilled than tcw kenobi. Dooku is far more equipped for a fight with maul+oppress than tcw Kenobi is.

Yes Dooku is in excellent physical condition for his age, but Maul and Kenobi are much more physically capable than Dooku. I don't think you would go as far as trying to dispute that.

And thats irrelevant if that doesn't showcase itself in combat, dooku has clearly been kenobi's superior in unarmed combat even when dealing with anakin as well.

Furthermore, this is bane. Bane is arguably stronger/faster/more durable than both combatants here. Bane's Resistance of the orbalisk armor, and his ability to pre prime defend vs pouring rain for several minuites show that, so dooku's physical disadvantages aren't even relevant in this battle.

Which was a physical feat for Maul. Maul disarmed Savage of his lightsaber by grabbing him by the arm, pulled it up with a grip that's so powerful he had control over Savage's limb, and floored him through the use of his Cybernetic legs.

It was more of a skill showing, dooku has showcased superior unarmed skill in lightsaber duels than maul as can be seen by comparing how both have fared vs kenobi. Furthermore bane is arguably stronger than maul.

Too bad I didn't use any circumstantial/PIS feats. I used a line of dialogue where Dooku realised Savage's growing strength in the Force.

Sidious realized ventress's growing strength in the force, is she a threat to sidious now? Anakin's growing strength in the force had sidious saying he'd be >yoda/sidious, is he now a threat to sidious?

But Bane is roughly on the same level as Dooku based on feats and what is widely accepted and believed on this Forum unless if you want to argue that Bane is significantly better than Dooku...

I'm more than willing to accept that.

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#48  Edited By kbroskywalker

@guildseal said:

I remember not so long ago people considered Maul a Dooku level combatant. What happened?

kenobi fanboys an darkside haters like myself emerged from the ashes

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