Darth Bane (Orbalisks) vs Darth Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi

This is Rule of Two Darth Bane wearing his Orbalisk armor taking on SoD Darth Maul and ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi. All-out fight to the death, takes place on neutral ground.

Who wins and why?

Star Wars Callouts:

Darth Bane. I'm not convinced that Obi-Wan would even pose a threat to this version of Bane. He took potentially fatal hits from some excellent fighers in the Tython duel, but was rather unaffected. Bane could probably afford to disregard defence, focusing simply on overwhelming Kenobi.

I seem to remember that lightning is one of the orbalisks' few weaknesses, but Maul isn't really a frequent user of it.

I think Bane wins a very comfortable majority of fights. I'd say 9/10, with a small margin of doubt due to the possibility of receiving a damaging hit from Maul's lightning.

Lol. Team stomps.

While the team may not be capable of exploiting the Orbalisks vulnerability to lightning, the master of soresu and the first apprentice of Sidious aren't losing to Bane in a duel, even with the Orbalisks. At least, in my opinion.

Orbalisks can absorb Force Lightning. It was just the sheer intensity of the lightning Bane was throwing out and being reflected back at him that overloaded them and killed the orbalisks, causing them to release fatal toxins into his body. Maul and Kenobi don't possess the abilities necessary to bypass or damage the orbalisks.

Bane's only vulnerable points are his wrists and his neck above the collarbone. Everywhere else is covered in orbalisk armor. The head-cage is also somewhat resistant to lightsabers, so damaging Bane is extremely difficult. Also, during the fight on Tython, Bane had his wrist cut halfway through with a lightsaber. It completely healed in seconds. The orbalisks give him a rapid healing factor on top of being nearly impervious.

Bane easily exceeds them in power, strength and durability. Kenobi will tire out or buckle under Bane's fury and Maul doesn't possess the defensive skills necessary to withstand Bane for long.

^ Easily exceeding someone like TCW Maul? lol.

Inclined to say team. Bane was pretty sloppy with orbalisks. Overconfident in their ability to protect him.

Long fight but the duo are skilled enough to take him down.

Team wins by fighting smarter than Bane

Good point. One of the greatest duellists of the era, Raskta Lsu, was deliberately aiming for Bane's face, but failed to land a critical hit. This is in spite of her receiving support from Worror Dowmat's battle meditation (a benefit that Obi-Wan and Maul won't have).

Which is irrelevant since either Kenobi or Maul are better than Raskta with BM on their own, the two of them together would absolutely sh!t on her.

Besides, Bane had the aid of Tython's DS nexus, so that should somewhat compensate for Raskta's Battle Meditative amp. The team wins this unless Bane makes efficient use of his powers, which he might.

If freaking Johun can land a precise blow on one of Bane's weak spots Kenobi and Maul sure as hell can

>implying Johun isn't a better duelist than Maul/Kenobi combined

u wot m8?

Team stomps.

I think the phrase "better than" isn't very helpful in this context, as too many conventional Jedi skills are virtually nullified in the face of someone wearing orbalisk armour. Obi-Wan probably is a more well-rounded Jedi than Raskta Lsu, and I have little doubt that he is a stronger Force user than she is. However, I'd argue that Lsu was one of the most dangerous light-side enemies (i.e. not a lightning-user) that Bane could have faced at this point. She devoted almost all her efforts to lightsaber combat, to the point that she (a) told a fellow Master (Farfalla) to step aside as he would simply hinder her; (b) could immediately recognise that Bane's lightsaber hilt was curved, removing a regular advantage of his; (c) could seamlessly switch from one Form to the next; and (d) both held the position of Weapons Master and was recognised as perhaps the greatest duellist of her time.

Obi-Wan's preference of Soresu is going to make him less likely to launch a daring strike at Bane's weak points, which is really the only foreseeable way in which he can win.

As for Maul: he could be blindingly fast, but I think Obi-Wan would slow him down. Also, he demonstrated time after time after time after time that there were holes in his defence, having made numerous near-fatal mistakes in duels against opponents of vastly varying skill.

@discipulus:

Also, he demonstrated time after time after time after time that there were holes in his defence, having made numerous near-fatal mistakes in duels against opponents of vastly varying skill.

You could say this about virtually anyone - especially Obi-Wan, come to think of it, and he's meant to be the defensive master. Everyone from Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Savage, Ventress, and more have pierced his guard. Not to mention most of your examples just don't work out logically.

1. Grievous - someone who has kicked everyone at some point or another, including the defensive master Obi-Wan himself. Perhaps being able to tie up one lightsaber with four, and having an entire body composed of space-age metal alloy designed to withstand massive explosions at point-blank range, has something to do with his success in kicking people during blade-locks.

2. Obi-Wan was freshly enhanced by his anger at his master dying, and caught Maul off-guard. That can happen to anyone. Before that amp Maul was kicking him and Qui-Gon up and down the Naboo hanger with impunity. The only time he was struck beforehand was when Jinn punched him, at the expense of Obi-Wan being kicked off a catwalk in exchange.

3/4. Your other examples are of Kanan in Oneness/Rey-mode, and frigging Sidious. I'm not sure which is a poorer example. It should go without saying that using examples of someone in a uniquely enhanced state of ability, and someone who is the greatest of the time/all time, to declare that Maul has an inherently weak defence, is horrendous logic.

Would you like me to go through TCW and rake up every time someone has had "holes in their defence", or have I made my point?

Both Maul and Kenobi can solo. Together, they stomp.

I mean.... yep. Pretty much.

I'm not suggesting that Maul is overrated or that he's a poor defender, simply that his defence skills are insufficient to fight the strongest incarnation of Darth Bane.

When he wore his orbalisk suit, Bane used a very aggressive style. He was already a naturally strong fighter on account of his size; that's why I think the Sidious clip was relevant. In their blade-lock, Maul was simply overpowered and subsequently disarmed.

If he can't overcome an angered but comparatively inexperienced Obi-Wan, I don't think he stands much chance against Bane. In this fight, Bane is incredibly robust with only a few weak points, and in a perpetual state of anger as a result of his orbalisks' parasitic relationship to him. Maul will find himself fighting defensively, which I don't believe is his strong point.

I don't see why the logic I use is "horrendous". (I do concede that the Grievous strip wasn't the most relevant.) Against Bane (with orbalisks), I believe that the defensive skills required surpass those available to, and shown by, Maul.

(Also, was it ever confirmed that Kanan entered a state of Oneness?)

Landing a blow and making a decisive strike are two completely different things. Nvm the only reason anyone could land a hit on Bane was because of the blind fury and mad joy brought on by the orbalisks and the feel of invincibility with them, causing him to fight in a completely reckless manner. However, it didn't matter even that they could land a hit here or there, because it either did no damage or wasn't decisive so it was completely ignored.

Also, being on a Dark Side Nexus =/= Auto Amp. Zannah shows this later that one needs to specifically draw on the nature of the world to use its strength to their advantage. Bane was fully engrossed in just his own power and the orbalisks intensifying his rage, cycling it and amping the effect of his abilities.

The thing is, every strike made on Bane was when the Jedi were being amped through Battle Meditation, which was strengthening the Jedi and weakening the Sith, Bane and Zannah. Once Zannah managed to stagger Worror and disrupt this ability, the Jedi engaging Bane got steamrolled by him rather immediately. You could say Maul and Kenobi are individually more skilled than those Jedi when it comes to melee combat, but not by any significant margin (except the one guy who was basically bringing the whole group down with his fail).

However, it's not enough to overcome Bane's sheer power, strength and skill. Without the Battle Med amp, the Jedi were like tiny sandcastles being stomped on by a jock. It's really only a matter of time until Bane bulldozes them into the ground.

@discipulus:

I'm not suggesting that Maul is overrated or that he's a poor defender, simply that his defence skills are insufficient to fight the strongest incarnation of Darth Bane.

Your use of the word "mistakes" suggests there was some underlying fault from Maul (which to a degree there is, as with all things), but I was just making the point that he's not got a particularly poor defence relative to other people in his era or skill tier.

Now, regarding Bane..

When he wore his orbalisk suit, Bane used a very aggressive style. He was already a naturally strong fighter on account of his size; that's why I think the Sidious clip was relevant. In their blade-lock, Maul was simply overpowered and subsequently disarmed.

Bane isn't stronger than Maul physically; refer to Maul, without using Force augmentation, decapitating a Varactyl with his bare hands. You know, that massive creature Obi-Wan was riding in episode 3. The only merit he has in this fight is his armor's protection.

If he can't overcome an angered but comparatively inexperienced Obi-Wan, I don't think he stands much chance against Bane.

Well for one, Maul did overcome him, and two, that's not a logical thought process. Not only is there no precedent for Bane > Kenobi other than your personal interpretation, but one lapse of defence in a fight spanning several minutes and hundreds of maneuvers isn't conclusive of anything. You could take this logic and apply it to anything you wanted to. Hetton dodged Bane's lightning, so obviously Maul would dance around it.

Here's a better example; if Savage Opress, someone stronger than Bane (refer to him propelling Dooku with the force of his blows, ragdolling Ventress and eclipsing Anakin and Obi-Wan's strength combined) with better dueling feats (pressuring Anakin and Obi-Wan, stalemating/besting Ventress etc), cannot last more than 3 strikes against Maul in a fight without being disarmed, what hope does Bane have?

In this fight, Bane is incredibly robust with only a few weak points, and in a perpetual state of anger as a result of his orbalisks' parasitic relationship to him. Maul will find himself fighting defensively, which I don't believe is his strong point.

Bane actually has a gaping weak point in this fight, and it isn't a physical one; he's simply outclassed as a fighter by either Maul or Obi-Wan, let alone both. Maul's defensive skills are fine, as I pointed out with the Savage example.

I don't see why the logic I use is "horrendous". (I do concede that the Grievous strip wasn't the most relevant.) Against Bane (with orbalisks), I believe that the defensive skills required surpass those available to, and shown by, Maul.

Because none of your examples are fair to Maul, relate directly to Bane, or conclude anything useful. In a strict comparison of accomplishments, accolades and holism, Maul and Kenobi are above Bane, with the armour being the only merit he brings to the fight.

(Also, was it ever confirmed that Kanan entered a state of Oneness?)

It's becoming a running theme in Star Wars now. Aside from Kanan's actor stating as much on his podcast (he described Kanan as "The Force" - the Force was fighting, not Kanan. It was Maul vs The Force), it's evident from the scene itself; Kanan's senses become greatly enhanced, he can hear a pin drop in a rain storm, and then suddenly he starts fighting at a far higher level than he usually is. The whole "trust your feelings" "feel the Force" "let the Force flow through you" etc concepts were coming into play.

Maul can use lightning now?

But team wins.

Depends on how much Bane abuses his telekinesis. If he doesn't use it enough, Maul and Kenobi outduel him and decapitate him, if he abuses it before they manage to do that and removes Kenobi from the fight then he definitely wins.

There is absolutely no way either of them are soloing though.

Team wins.

@i_like_swords:

I realise in hindsight that “overcome” was the wrong word when describing Maul's fight with Kenobi in The Phantom Menace. I was referring the brief exchange shown in the clip rather than the entire fight.

Also, there seems to be a degree of inconsistency regarding Maul’s physical strength. Whilst the varactyl feat is certainly impressive, under similar conditions Maul was punched and thrown around quite easily by Silus. Also, the The Clone Wars episode “Eminence” sees an anooba (the wolf-like creatures which killed Even Piell) pin Maul down for quite some time. I’m inclined to believe that some of his unarmed feats are more a result of his excellent hand-to-hand skills - which I recall him using to great effect against an enraged wampa, amongst other things.

Finally, regarding Kanan’s state of Oneness: interesting. My initial interpretation was that Kanan was using Force sight, as the Miraluka do, but this doesn’t make much sense given that he hadn’t met the Bendu by this point. I think states of Oneness are prone to overrating, though. After all, it didn’t ultimately help Galen Marek in the The Force Unleashed novel. Whilst the threat Maul posed to Kanan was of course less significant than the threat Palpatine poses to almost anyone, Maul probably could have tried harder: of all the attacks in his repertoire, I don’t think trying to punch Kanan is the best he can do. He’s prone to overconfidence, and would probably still have his legs if he didn’t underestimate his opponents. And Son of Dathomir (in whose state Maul is fighting) demonstrates that he hasn’t shaken off this vulnerability. Would he overestimate Bane on account of it being a two-on-one fight? Perhaps. (I realise I'm probably over-speculating!)

@foxerdes: They aren't the easiest ones to apply to this fight, I agree. I was a little hasty in selecting them. However, I think it would be very difficult to find a much more compatible example, given that Maul has never really faced an enemy like orbalisk-clad Bane. The final line of the post you're referring to in which I say Maul has "made numerous near-fatal mistakes in duels against opponents of vastly varying skill" hopefully goes some way in addressing it. I don't expect the Palpatine clip (or any other single clip/image) to be taken in isolation.

He can theoretically use it according to the Clone Wars Magazine.

Feats for Bane? I've seen a few posted on this site before but a refresher would be super helpful, and what exactly does this Orbalisk armour do?

I'm leaning towards the team.

... not at all...

@echostarlord117: why not?

Team 2 is more skilled than anyone Bane has ever faced. Kenobi's Soresu is perfect against Bane's reckless Form V, and Maul's unpredictable Juyo would be too much for Bane to defend against, even with the Orbs. In a 2 v 1 with the armor, I still think the team can take it.

@kiadisandwich: Because they can't. I mean, theoretically, I'm sure Maul or Kenobi could take a few rounds in a one-on-one versus Orbalisk Bane, but realistically, Bane would beat either of them for the majority. Additionally, while I agree that the team should be able to overwhelm Bane, calling this a stomp is plain and simple an over exaggeration.

@echostarlord117: why can't they? Ok, a stomp's excessive, but they still win 10/10.

team.

@silverrings:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/emperordmb/blog/darth-bane-respect-thread-part-1/116776/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/emperordmb/blog/darth-bane-respect-thread-part-2/124285/

Team sweeps

With Orbalisks, team loses. They lack the Force power to undermine his armor, Bane will cut them down due to immunity.

Without Orbalisks, he'd lose.

Team stomps.

Either solos.