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#1151 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:

@jagernutt: The story that starts with Thanos Vol 1 Issue 8. Where they explain that the Maker is insane. And that she only used her powers for a short period when she broke through the madness. Just going through Thanos 8 you will see at least 4 mentons of Maker being depowered due to her madness. And that they feared her gaining her sanity back. And she was telepathically shut down by Oracle too. A random Shi'ar Telepath with TP that is not really impressive.

Post the exact text that explains her being depowered due to madness. I've read Thanos solo series and do not recall that ever being said.

Oracle's entire race possesses telepathic abilities. And Oracle is the strongest member of an entire telepathic race which would explain why Oracle is also a member of the Shiar imperial guard. From what I've gathered Oracle worked directly for Empress Lilandra as her go to telepath.

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#1152 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@cull_obsidian:

I am indeed referring to The Ultimates 10 , well he psychically projected himself into anti mans cell and it certainly looks like he coerced and mentally manipulated Conner

He did manipulate him. He did not, however, mentally dominate him. THere is a huge distinction. He did it through his silver tongue skills. THanos is a master manipulator after all.

Moondragon was there strictly as a conduit /vpn so galactus wouldn't directly track thanos' whereabouts , which is why he immediately teleported her away

Hmm suppose you could look at it that way but if your having a battle then there would be attacks especially if you end up winning , because a defensive mind would be unlikely to decisivly defeat a telepath like moondragon

To me it seemed like he needed her to open the doors and connect his mind to Galan's so that he can battle him. I don't think it was just to hide his location as she was right there herself.

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#1153 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: That sounds like a lot of homework. I am willing to do it, but you have to concede the argument if i do show that.

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#1154 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:

@jagernutt: That sounds like a lot of homework. I am willing to do it, but you have to concede the argument if i do show that.

I'll let the text speak for itself.

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#1155 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this still going on? Thanos beats the shitb out of him. This argument should be over.

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#1156 Posted by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@revan- said:

Is this still going on? Thanos beats the shitb out of him. This argument should be over.

The sad part about it is I'm not even sure if Darksieds name has been mentioned in the last three entire pages of this thread.lol

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#1157 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:

@jagernutt: That sounds like a lot of homework. I am willing to do it, but you have to concede the argument if i do show that.

I'll let the text speak for itself.

Well then i aint going through the story again to find the scans. However, you can read the story yourself and see the statements of her "Getting through her madness and destroying some stuff" and making herself vulnerable throughout the 3 issue story.

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#1158 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:
@jagernutt said:
@chimeroid said:

@jagernutt: That sounds like a lot of homework. I am willing to do it, but you have to concede the argument if i do show that.

I'll let the text speak for itself.

Well then i aint going through the story again to find the scans. However, you can read the story yourself and see the statements of her "Getting through her madness and destroying some stuff" and making herself vulnerable throughout the 3 issue story.

It's been about a year since I read it last.

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#1159 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (2843 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: I think your right , darkseid hasn't been mentioned in ages

Lets get this back on track

Imo Thanos took this at imperative levels , now he is in a different league powerwise to that incarnation due to god quarry boost , I will say he would not only dominate darkseid in physical power but in telepathy as well

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#1160 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@revan- said:

Is this still going on? Thanos beats the shitb out of him. This argument should be over.

The sad part about it is I'm not even sure if Darksieds name has been mentioned in the last three entire pages of this thread.lol

Here is a little mention of Darkseid for Pre-Crisis

He can create mockeries (imperfect clones) of Guardians of Oa, Superman, Orion, and other superheroes.

He can drain his enemies. he did it to Mordru and Time Trapper.

He can drain powerful artefacts

He is the leader of Apokolips and packs weaponry that uses planetoids as ammo, by the thousands.

He can also weaponize local stars and use them to shoot his enemies.

In the GDS storyline he was actually weakened he had to drain others to get his powers back, similarly to the Rebirth story.

He also controlled 3 billion Daxamites. Which is at least a thousand times more people than what Moondragon did. And beating Moondragon is Thanos' claim to fame when it comes to TP.

He has dropped Superman to his knees with a single blast.

When Mantis drained all of the power of Pre Crisis Hal Jordan (a lot more powerful than his current self) and used all of it on Darkseid, Darkseid laughed at his face.

He can also empower others. He created Validus.

He can also incinerate his enemies with a touch

Omega Beams not only destroy you, but also take you out of the timeline entirely. Making it so that you never existed in the first place.

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#1161 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt said:
@revan- said:

Is this still going on? Thanos beats the shitb out of him. This argument should be over.

The sad part about it is I'm not even sure if Darksieds name has been mentioned in the last three entire pages of this thread.lol

Here is a little mention of Darkseid for Pre-Crisis

He can create mockeries (imperfect clones) of Guardians of Oa, Superman, Orion, and other superheroes.

He can drain his enemies. he did it to Mordru and Time Trapper.

He can drain powerful artefacts

He is the leader of Apokolips and packs weaponry that uses planetoids as ammo, by the thousands.

He can also weaponize local stars and use them to shoot his enemies.

In the GDS storyline he was actually weakened he had to drain others to get his powers back, similarly to the Rebirth story.

He also controlled 3 billion Daxamites. Which is at least a thousand times more people than what Moondragon did. And beating Moondragon is Thanos' claim to fame when it comes to TP.

He has dropped Superman to his knees with a single blast.

When Mantis drained all of the power of Pre Crisis Hal Jordan (a lot more powerful than his current self) and used all of it on Darkseid, Darkseid laughed at his face.

He can also empower others. He created Validus.

He can also incinerate his enemies with a touch

Omega Beams not only destroy you, but also take you out of the timeline entirely. Making it so that you never existed in the first place.

I didn't know this was Pre-Crisis. I hate Pre-Crisis characters, so I'll not comment, but I'm sure DS stomps.

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#1162 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@cull_obsidian said:

@jagernutt: I think your right , darkseid hasn't been mentioned in ages

Lets get this back on track

Imo Thanos took this at imperative levels , now he is in a different league powerwise to that incarnation due to god quarry boost , I will say he would not only dominate darkseid in physical power but in telepathy as well

All true. And besides. Even if Moondragon made the long distance call to Galactus. It's entirely clear that it was only Thanos doing the fighting. And that is impressive. Does Darksied even have TP resistance?

No Caption Provided

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#1163 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@revan-: yeah, the title should have that stipulation instead of it being hidden in the OP. I don't think it is a stomp. It is definitely a hard fight. Thanos is an insanely powerful teambuster. However the Omega Beams are basically a cheat code and back in the Pre Crisis period they still didn't have the bunch of low showings that would negate the high showings and balance it out. The post crisis Darkseid's Omega Beams have a very clear durability treshhold.

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#1164 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: Btw, here is the scan confirming both the diminished capacity of power and the madness.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3h1Y-W4Ji_gGGTVGWiWOajOSLdLeZb2VLJnzwXD64W6TkZ53SX7_cf8Dj0I7-InP8fnDd2flJ_p-=s1600

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#1165 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Thanks for the link. I said The Maker was depowered a few post ago but no one believed me lol.

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#1166 Posted by Batvibe12 (3327 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos.

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#1167 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (2843 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I knew the maker wasnt full potential cube being like the beyonder , because the mortal form restricted her

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#1168 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (2843 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: He didn't mentally dominate him because he didn't need to , it was similar to ebony maw manipulating Dr strange

Thanos himself states her role was "strictly" divisionary, and beside why would he need her to connect with Galactus? When he has communicated before , I also dont see how a weaker telepath then him would help him against galactus

I could make quite a compelling case for Thanos to be above moondragon in that regard

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#1169 Edited by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@chimeroid: Thanks for the link. I said The Maker was depowered a few post ago but no one believed me lol.

Oh come on, no one really thinks that the Beyonder can't just delete Thanos. Even post Retconn. This is just Battle Boards taking over the conversation.

@chimeroid: He didn't mentally dominate him because he didn't need to , it was similar to ebony maw manipulating Dr strange

Well, there is an important distinction between the two. Manipulation can be done without any TP. That feat, at best, proves that Thanos can communicate at a distance. I see no definitive mind control there.

Thanos himself states her role was "strictly" divisionary, and beside why would he need her to connect with Galactus? When he has communicated before , I also dont see how a weaker telepath then him would help him against galactus

Because Thanos, much like Apoc, is not a true telepath. he has the power, but is not as proficient at using it to connect with others. Either way, any feat with a lot of context behind it is automatically less effective than straight forward ones. The scan where they made contact clearly states that Moondragon was the one who made contact for Thanos.

I could make quite a compelling case for Thanos to be above moondragon in that regard

Yeah, the issue is that even her TP is not that impressive. Her best feat is controlling millions on Ba-Bani and taxing herself. She was incapable of discerning specific information and had to drop the control of the people to take down Drax. And, she overtaxed herself to the point of power depletion to do so.

So, even if you make a case for Thanos to be above Moondragon, i don't see how you will make a case for him being above GDS Darkseid for an example.

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#1170 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Oh come on, no one really thinks that the Beyonder can't just delete Thanos. Even post Retconn.

Are you sure? This is what I was told on the previous page: There is no reason to assume that Thanos is that far below a Cube entity in modern cannon. Cube entities are not actually universal any longer. It is widely agreed upon that Galactus is above a Cube being in power level. But the biggest quantifiable feat we've seen from Galactus is destroying three star systems (that's a far cry being a universal feat). At that particular point in Marvel's history Galactus is shown as being more powerful than the Beyonder plain and simple.

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#1171 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty:IIRC Spidey and Doom both held post retcon beyonders powers for like a nanosecond (when he was a Mutant, at his lowest) and they both could have remade everything. Pretty sure the person you were talking to just likes Thanos to be more powerful and chooses to portray him as being more powerful than the Beyonder.

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#1172 Posted by Savage_Salience (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience said:
@p00ty said:

@chimeroid: @savage_salience: @jagernutt: @cull_obsidian: I'm replying to all of you just because this scan is hard to find. Save it for the future if you don't have it.

Here is Moondragon admitting that she did indeed enslave the whole planet. She was mentally fueling the rebellion to be more aggressive. Then she would make them be peaceful. To make it seem like she was a good choice to be ruler. Read the top right frame for the admission.

Sidethought: This feat is not impressive to me. Controlling a planet of fodder with no TP resistance isn't that good to me. Beating ONE trained telepath is better than controlling a bunch of fodder with no way to resist you. Regardless she did control an entire planet which should count for something.

No Caption Provided

The feat is impressive because no other telepath has demonstrated or exercises that level of control over that many people, while multi tasking what was going on, including being able to over came Iron Mans tp deflection. Can you think of another telepath that has done the same post crisis, or even on the marvel side of things? I can't. To me the pinnacle of telepathy is being able to control or manipulate people. This has a direct translation to combat. If you can make it so you're enemy becomes your ally, that's a win. Saying that someone has beaten another telepath can be good, but the question may have to be asked, what has the telepath they beaten done? There's no ambiguity about what Moondragon did. And I can't think of another telepath that has replicated the feat save for Despero in Death of Hawkman.

A couple of things i would like to mention. Number one, controlling millions is not a planetary feat. It is a country feat at most. Number two, she had to drop the control on all of them to stop Drax and she lost her powers for doing so. She is not a planetary telepath.

I would disagree. The very scan above you quoted from said many millions? How many millions is that? No one really knows. But can you show me a feat of another telepath that controlled a planet of many millions, as well as doing all the things Heather did? I haven't seen the likes of Xavier or even someone like Despero (post crisis) do the same thing, yet no one questions their telepathic prowess.

Also, once again you are incorrect. IIRC, the Wasp managed to knock her out with a right cross. That is what shook her telepathic hold. You should read the story. It's pretty good.

@p00ty said:

@savage_salience: I disagree. Fodder is created to be beaten. They have no skill nor resistance.

I would also argue that collectively, a planet with a multitude of millions being controlled by one mind, although untrained is still impressive. You seem to be forgetting that Moondragon had been controlling this planet for an extended period of time when she summoned (READ: telepathically controlled) the Avengers from light years away. Also, Iron Man's armor had been working to deflect Moondragon's telepathy the whole time and it wasn't until later that Iron Man started putting two and two together. Also, during this entire time she was able to telepathically, instantly translate earth language to Ba-Bani as well as the reverse. Then she actually killed Drax with brain death.

Does someone like Martian Manhunter even have feats like that? I don't even remember Xavier having such a feat or even someone like Despero, who is generally considered a more powerful telepath than Martian Manhunter.

Beating one tiger(a trained telepath) is more impressive than beating 1,000 butterflys(untrained fodder).

Your illustration is based on speculation to a certain degree. Yes, it is more impressive to beat someone trained. This is why a golden gloves boxer or an Airborne Ranger will get the book thrown at them for assault for fighting someone untrained, so I do get what you're saying.

For comparison's sake, if Martian Manhunter beats Maxima in telepathy, is that more impressive than him controlling an entire planet of untrained people?

Similarly, if Iron Fist beats an entire planet of people, is that less impressive than beating Shang Chi once?

My point is there comes a time when sheer, overwhelming numbers makes the feat impressive. When you add all the other things Moondragon did at the same time she was controlling the planet, yeah that is pretty impressive.

On Comicvine, Moondragon wouldn't be facing numerous people with no TP resistance. She would be facing a trained telepath. Her track record against trained telepaths is lacking.

I wouldn't go that far. She is pitted against some of the most powerful telepaths in the marvel universe on occasion, Xemnu (who has controlled billions on a planet himself), a Thanosii said to be as powerful as Xavier (she gave him brain death like Drax). She has communicated telepathically through alternate time streams with Immortus. She also went toe toe with Dr Strange in a telepathic battle for an extended time before going down. Strange is a powerful telepath in his own right.

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#1173 Posted by TheSaiyanMan (1745 posts) - - Show Bio

Probabaly Darkseid in physicals since its pre-crisis. But people are bringing up telepathy guess THANOS can win if he uses it.

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#1174 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience: Martian Manhunter controlled the entire planet as Fernus. Xavier nor Jean have controlled that many people. But it doesn't matter because it's not a battle feat. The only way it's a battle feat is if the thread is: Who can control the most fodder at once? Moondragon would win.

But on Comicvine she will be facing other trained telepaths. So that is not a battle feat.

Look at all the people that you said Moondragon has faced. Correct me if i'm wrong but:

Xenmu has never defeated a reputable telepath.

The Thanosii is featless

Communicating with someone is NOT a battle feat. She didn't take over Immortus mind

I have no idea if Strange has any feats.

What reputable telepath has MD beaten? Or name someone that has TP resistance. And she has gotten through their defenses?

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#1175 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience: My point is there comes a time when sheer, overwhelming numbers makes the feat impressive.

I guess quantity means something to some people regardless of the quality. The Champion of The Universe has conquered countless fodder planets. Yet gets his ribs broken by The Thing. Avoids the Hulk. Couldn't even touch Thanos. Got beat by SHe Hulk. That's why I don't put much faith in beating fodder. Regardless of how many it is.

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#1176 Posted by Savage_Salience (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

Martian Manhunter controlled the entire planet as Fernus.

Yeah sorry. Jonn doesn't get Fernus' feats

No Caption Provided

So I ask again, when has Jonn ever controlled an entire planet with telepathy, while multi tasking a variety of other telepathic feats, including busting through Iron Man's telepathic defenses?

Xavier nor Jean have controlled that many people.

Exactly. Yet your are diminishing the feat by Moondragon. I'm beginning to wonder why.

But it doesn't matter because it's not a battle feat. The only way it's a battle feat is if the thread is: Who can control the most fodder at once? Moondragon would win.

But on Comicvine she will be facing other trained telepaths. So that is not a battle feat.

I see where you're coming from but, I still disagree that defeating one telepath, any telepath, is a greater feat than telepathically controlling an entire planet of people and doing all the thing Heather did.

If I had to choose between what a more impressive feat was, Heather's or say for example, Martian Manhunter defeating Maxima telepathically, I'd choose Heather's. Maxima is a crap telepath.

Should I be impressed with that? Now if we're talking upper tiers like Nate Gray, Cable, Xavier, Bette Noir or such, then that is impressive, but to dismiss Moondragon's feat entirely? I'm not seeing it.

And really, the reason I bring up Heather is because Thanos has defeated Moondragon each time they have faced off. To me, Heather is a more powerful telepath than you are willing to admit.


Look at all the people that you said Moondragon has faced. Correct me if i'm wrong but:

Xenmu has never defeated a reputable telepath.

Yet he has controlled a planet of billions. To me, that alone is reputable. In a way, placing numbers on "fodder" as you call them at least paints a picture in your mind of how many people can be controlled at once by that telepath. It's like a bench press. Bench pressing a 1000 pounds is usually more impressive than bench pressing 315 pounds, particularly if both individuals are of comparable age, height, health, etc.

Just saying, "I beat a telepath", doesn't mean much to me. Beating a telepath with a "reputation", well then that is something.

At the same time, altogether dismissing what Heather did just sounds like a convenient argument for someone who can't produce a single feat for other upper tier telepaths comparable to what Moondragon did.

Also, Xemnu has locked down Dr Strange telepathically on one occasion, something an infinity gauntlet Adam Warlock failed to do using just the mind gem. Keep in mind, Adam in the old days was seen as telepathically superior to even Thanos.


The Thanosii is featless

The Thanosii was said to be an Xavier level telepath. Sure no feats, but that at least gives an idea of what level were are talking.


Communicating with someone is NOT a battle feat. She didn't take over Immortus mind

No she did not. But the fact that she was able to transcend a timeline in order to communicate telepathically is impressive to me. Does Jonn have any feats like that? What telepaths can you name that have done the same?


I have no idea if Strange has any feats.

He has resisted telepathic control of Adam Warlock who was in possession of the infinity gauntlet. Along with the Silver Surfer, he was one of the first to free himself of the telepathic control of the Goddess. Keep in mind, Strange often is left out of larger events where his participation witha team could tip the scales decidedly in the favor of the team with Strange. When Banner Hulk was induced into another rampage that ultimately sent him to the crossroads by Strange, a virtually Bannerless Hulk attacked the sanctum, Strange simultaneously stopped Hulk in his tracks, peeled his mind like a banana, and discovered that Nightmare had driven the Hulk over the top.

He also had much better success telepathically than Xavier did telepathically against the same version of the Hulk (world war). In fact, Strange employed a non lethal telepathic spell. However, had he so chosen, he could've killed him. It appears Strange's mistake was taking him down the wrong road telepathically, reminding of Kaiera's death on Sakaar. This reignited Bruce's anger and you know the rest.


What reputable telepath has MD beaten? Or name someone that has TP resistance. And she has gotten through their defenses?

Moondragon in her first skirmish with Dr Strange, was able to actually knock the good doctor out. It wasn't until their second go round she lost to Strange, and that after an extended telepathic battle. Otherwise, for whatever reason, Marvel has chosen not to allow her to travel much of the "X" circles, where the majority of marvel's telepathic powerhouses are. I still don't see that as a disqualifying factor for Heather given the other feats that I have described.

@savage_salience: My point is there comes a time when sheer, overwhelming numbers makes the feat impressive.

I guess quantity means something to some people regardless of the quality. The Champion of The Universe has conquered countless fodder planets. Yet gets his ribs broken by The Thing. Avoids the Hulk. Couldn't even touch Thanos. Got beat by SHe Hulk. That's why I don't put much faith in beating fodder. Regardless of how many it is.

The Champion of the universe is used by the story teller as a plot device. Without the power gem, he is fairly featless, so bad example.

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#1177 Edited by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience:

I would disagree. The very scan above you quoted from said many millions? How many millions is that? No one really knows. But can you show me a feat of another telepath that controlled a planet of many millions, as well as doing all the things Heather did? I haven't seen the likes of Xavier or even someone like Despero (post crisis) do the same thing, yet no one questions their telepathic prowess.

Xavier has feats of influencing a lot more than millions. 2 White Martians from DC controlled a city with 2 million people (IIRC). Either way, controlling millions is a great feat. It is a great city level telepathy feat.

And we have Darkseid actually controlling 3 billion people.

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#1178 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience:

Also, once again you are incorrect. IIRC, the Wasp managed to knock her out with a right cross. That is what shook her telepathic hold. You should read the story. It's pretty good.

Lol. That is not true. Go back to Avengers 220 and check it out.

No Caption Provided

So, thanks for being condescending so as to help my point here.

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#1180 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@chimeroid: Oh come on, no one really thinks that the Beyonder can't just delete Thanos. Even post Retconn.

Are you sure? This is what I was told on the previous page: There is no reason to assume that Thanos is that far below a Cube entity in modern cannon. Cube entities are not actually universal any longer. It is widely agreed upon that Galactus is above a Cube being in power level. But the biggest quantifiable feat we've seen from Galactus is destroying three star systems (that's a far cry being a universal feat). At that particular point in Marvel's history Galactus is shown as being more powerful than the Beyonder plain and simple.

I said in previous pages that Thanos refused to kill her but instead opted to shut down her mind. This scan is simply explaining the reason for that in better detail. I mentioned her being crazy also.

I always took diminished capacities this to mean that she is simply more vulnerable to attacks compared to her original non corporeal form. Read this other scan in conjunction with the this other one. They said the essence of the Beyonder is still there.

No Caption Provided

Right here it is mentioned that taking on a mortal form makes her more vulnerable than to physical harm than her original non corporeal form. Not specifically in terms of less powerful but only more vulnerable to attacks.

No Caption Provided

Here is Gladiator saying the exact same thing about Beyonder being more vulnerable to harm due to having taken on a physical form.

No Caption Provided

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#1181 Posted by Savage_Salience (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience:

I would disagree. The very scan above you quoted from said many millions? How many millions is that? No one really knows. But can you show me a feat of another telepath that controlled a planet of many millions, as well as doing all the things Heather did? I haven't seen the likes of Xavier or even someone like Despero (post crisis) do the same thing, yet no one questions their telepathic prowess.

Xavier has feats of influencing a lot more than millions.

You seem to be lowballing on the "millions" comment.

They are described as "countless millions" and "many millions".

Not sure how you are interpreting "countless" and "many" millions, but given that the war was described as a global conflict, I have no problem saying what Heather did was planetary level.

May I see the scans or perhaps you have an issue number you can refer me to for the Xavier feats?

No Caption Provided
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Also, how long did Xavier control the people he TP'd?

Let's not forget that Heather had been doing all these things for an extended period of time.

No Caption Provided

2 White Martians from DC controlled a city with 2 million people (IIRC).

Scans or issue number for the white martians feat? And many millions sounds like more than just two million.

No Caption Provided
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And we have Darkseid actually controlling 3 billion people.

Yeah you won't get an argument from on this. Pre crisis Darkseid is more powerful all the way around, including telepathy, than Thanos.

@savage_salience:

Also, once again you are incorrect. IIRC, the Wasp managed to knock her out with a right cross. That is what shook her telepathic hold. You should read the story. It's pretty good.

Lol. That is not true. Go back to Avengers 220 and check it out.

So, thanks for being condescending so as to help my point here.

I think what you mean is, "I feel like you were condescending, so me providing what I think is proof to contrary is gratifying to me".

Moondragon in the very scan you provided just killed Drax. While it's obvious her telepathic hold had greatly weakened, she was planning on reasserting her telepathic grip on the assembled group like she had done a few times in the same story.

Jan knocked Heather out.

No Caption Provided

At this point any telepathic grip she had cessated and she could no longer influence anyone.

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#1182 Posted by Savage_Salience (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@cull_obsidian said:

@jagernutt: I think your right , darkseid hasn't been mentioned in ages

Lets get this back on track

Imo Thanos took this at imperative levels , now he is in a different league powerwise to that incarnation due to god quarry boost , I will say he would not only dominate darkseid in physical power but in telepathy as well

All true. And besides. Even if Moondragon made the long distance call to Galactus. It's entirely clear that it was only Thanos doing the fighting. And that is impressive. Does Darksied even have TP resistance?

No Caption Provided

Agree with this. There is no evidence whatsoever that Moondragon added to Thanos' power anymore than Dr Strange added to Thanos or the Silver Surfer's power when they fought each other while their "physical bodies remained" behind.

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Thanos has better telepathic feats than people like to let on, including consistently beating Moondragon who is a top tier telepath.

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#1183 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: There is no reason to assume that Thanos is that far below a Cube entity in modern cannon. Cube entities are not actually universal any longer. It is widely agreed upon that Galactus is above a Cube being in power level.

1) Considering the scans i'm about to show below. What made you say that Galactus and much less Thanos are near or above a Cosmic Cube?

2) As far as the Maker. From feats, it seems like all of it's powers were diminished. Even post retcon Beyonder can warp the universe in a instant(scan below). The Inhuman Beyonder was able to create his own world complete with artificial life. So the fact that it lost to Thanos tells me that her powers, durability and mental state was GREATLY diminished. No where near the levels shown below.

The first scan is spiderman having the Beyonders power. The second is Inhuman Beyonder. Both are doing things that Galactus nor Thanos could do.

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#1184 Posted by WhatamIseeing (500 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos

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#1185 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty:

Here is Maker performing reality warping while simultaneously blasting Thanos. I'll respond to your other scans momentarily.

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#1186 Edited by XLR87T3 (8012 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos one-shots. Not much discussion to have here. He desintigrate cancerverse Thor, who was confirmed to be stronger than the original. Do you know how much power and energy is needed to vaporize someone as durable as Thor?

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#1187 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@jagernutt: There is no reason to assume that Thanos is that far below a Cube entity in modern cannon. Cube entities are not actually universal any longer. It is widely agreed upon that Galactus is above a Cube being in power level.

1) Considering the scans i'm about to show below. What made you say that Galactus and much less Thanos are near or above a Cosmic Cube?

2) As far as the Maker. From feats, it seems like all of it's powers were diminished. Even post retcon Beyonder can warp the universe in a instant(scan below). The Inhuman Beyonder was able to create his own world complete with artificial life. So the fact that it lost to Thanos tells me that her powers, durability and mental state was GREATLY diminished. No where near the levels shown below.

The first scan is spiderman having the Beyonders power. The second is Inhuman Beyonder. Both are doing things that Galactus nor Thanos could do.

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Spiderman is making a statement about being everywhere but it's still just a statement. I lean towards that being hyperbole. There are other Cube beings towe can compare to this. It's in impressive statement but honestly beyond that what is going on in the bottom scan that Galactus cannot replicate? I don't see how that's quite universal at the bottom.

Thanos was able to defeat the Beyonder because she made herself vulnerable to harm. That still constitutes being diminished. Thanos may not be a reality warper but he is a matter manipulator. Thanos may not be able to replicate the bottom feat but he is powerful enough to resist it's effects. However if you read the scans I posted thoroughly you'll see that Maker is fully capable reality warping just fine in that form even while simultaneously attacking Thanos. Point out were Thanos said her powers were diminished.

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#1189 Posted by BruceRogers (14663 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: You might want to edit your comment since linking free comic sites is a strict no no here.

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#1190 Posted by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers:

My apologies. I've never linked anything here before.

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#1191 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: Thanos was able to defeat the Beyonder because she made herself vulnerable to harm.

I agree with that. Thanos only defeated her because she made herself vulnerable.

But before you said :There is no reason to assume that Thanos is that far below a Cube entity in modern cannon.

What CC being is Thanos even remotely close to?

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#1192 Edited by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@jagernutt: Thanos was able to defeat the Beyonder because she made herself vulnerable to harm.

I agree with that. Thanos only defeated her because she made herself vulnerable.

But before you said :There is no reason to assume that Thanos is that far below a Cube entity in modern cannon.

What CC being is Thanos even remotely close to?

Thanos isn't as powerful as an unshackled Cube being. I just don't see it as an astronomical difference given what Thanos is capable of resisting. There are other Cube beings we can use for comparison who don't seem quite as impressive.

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#1193 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience: when you quantify feats that are not clean cut uou should always go for lower estimates. So, wevhave this feat as "many millions" so saying 2-10 mil is a reasonable guesstimate.

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#1194 Posted by P00TY (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: when you quantify feats that are not clean cut uou should always go for lower estimates.

I agree with this. Like when something says: they passed galaxies in a blur.

Galaxies is plural. So we know for a fact it was at least two galaxies. But we cant prove it was 100.

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#1195 Posted by Savage_Salience (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience: when you quantify feats that are not clean cut uou should always go for lower estimates. So, wevhave this feat as "many millions" so saying 2-10 mil is a reasonable guesstimate.

I do see where you're coming from, but the war was referred to as a "GLOBAL" conflict. This tells me that folks all over Ba-Bani had been waging war for some time.

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#1196 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:

@savage_salience: when you quantify feats that are not clean cut uou should always go for lower estimates. So, wevhave this feat as "many millions" so saying 2-10 mil is a reasonable guesstimate.

I do see where you're coming from, but the war was referred to as a "GLOBAL" conflict. This tells me that folks all over Ba-Bani had been waging war for some time.

Sure, however, we don't know how many people there are on Ba-Bani. The only quantification given is "millions". New York has millions of people in it.

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#1197 Posted by Savage_Salience (91 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_salience said:
@chimeroid said:

@savage_salience: when you quantify feats that are not clean cut uou should always go for lower estimates. So, wevhave this feat as "many millions" so saying 2-10 mil is a reasonable guesstimate.

I do see where you're coming from, but the war was referred to as a "GLOBAL" conflict. This tells me that folks all over Ba-Bani had been waging war for some time.

Sure, however, we don't know how many people there are on Ba-Bani. The only quantification given is "millions". New York has millions of people in it.

Sure, but New York state doesn't cover the entirety of the planet.

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#1198 Posted by Chimeroid (8102 posts) - - Show Bio
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#1199 Edited by TheHulkster (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: What I recall is that she goes into a self induced catatonic state which allows for her mind to be shut down. That would not be possible before she goes into that state. I don’t recall it being stated that she is depowered by her insanity. Only that taking a mortal form makes her vulnerable and causes her insanity. She still wields Beyonder power.

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#1200 Posted by jagernutt (11809 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: What I recall is that she goes into a self induced catatonic state which allows for her mind to be shut down. That would not be possible before she goes into that state. I don’t recall it being stated that she is depowered by her insanity. Only that taking a mortal form makes her vulnerable and causes her insanity. She still wields Beyonder power.

I think you tagged the wrong person.