Darkseid vs Celestial

Do you know what's false equivalency? It's your point. Nightmare saying that will conquer infinite realms=/=Nightmare conquered infinite realms.

The show was him sucking the energies of everyone on Earth, start paying attention to the comic and won't be making these types of mistakes. The setting didn't even change, and both Strange and Nightmare's dialogue debunk your argument.

The book is your personal fanfic, right? Because nothing backs your arguments.

Editing the post several minutes later only to have the last word, hum? Besides, what you said is a pure strawman. Never once I said or argued that, but only that the circumstances of the showing can and have been replicated through other means. Nightmare needed help and prep for this plan to work, doesn't mean it can only be achieved like that as I gave you numerous examples. So really, read more about the character to know how his powers even work.

@cosmic_reign said:

While inside his own realm and/or by channeling the dream-energy from the slumbering beings on Earth, yes. He has already done this numerous times and I already gave examples. Nightmare is more poweful than ever because Strange is now incapable of stopping him from growing in power, unlike what happened in the previous instances. Not to mention that since Spider-Man: Alien Reality#5, PAD literally re-wrote how the Dream World works and not even Strange knew its full potential, which also shows that Nightmare himself never utilized his full potential so far as well. I take this instance as a way that Nightmare found to access his full powers over the dreaming.

That I can agree then, let's agree to disagree.

@cosmic_reign: I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again because it's always the same arguments I already addressed multiple times(Especially the one regarding the steps necessary to reach this level when I gave numerous instances. Hell, it's something that already happened in one of Nightmare's first appearances in Doctor Strange#180). Believe it in what you want, I made my case already.

@cosmic_reign: I told you many times that was only from a single reality and not thousands of dimensions, so there you go. Nightmare straight up saying that has gained the power worth of a single universe only:

I never said otherwise and you're still missing my point. I do believe Nightmare was amped, but by means that has and can be replicated with his own power. He controls the dreams and feeds on them, thus amping his powers.

Nightmare was clearly speaking of Strange's dimension and every image shows him at New York, instead of another layer or adjacent dimension.

Of course.

@professorrespect said:

Incorrect New 52 never reset Darkseid it merely gave him a new origin story

He's still reset, iirc. Hence why he doesn't simply recognize anyone from before.

As for the celestials at the beginning of the latest Avengers run, the celestials where being eradicated by the Avengers

Again, no context.

Pre-crisis Darkseid would body a celestial

From the next to no feats he had during then? His best stuff was Great Darkness and he was obviously amped during then. He had like one fight with Supergirl that ended in nothing?

Pre Crisis Darkseid has no feats with the Anti Life. Celestial stomps by default.

It's a what-if scenario.

Will it make a chane if Darkseid has the ALE?

@professorrespect: In post-19 there are feats for ALE, I think if he's not allowed ALE it's a stomp. Darkseid can't handle a celestial without it. Without prep or Wank. I think its better to answer it in 2 parts - one where he has an ALE.

@professorrespect:

Incorrect New 52 never reset Darkseid it merely gave him a new origin story

He's still reset, iirc. Hence why he doesn't simply recognize anyone from before.

Incorrect he doesn’t remember anyone because anyone because he is merely a shard of his true self which was shattered into multiple pieces in Final crisis. Darkseid spends most of his time in JLO getting these prices back and when he does Apokolips is finally elevated back to the sphere of the gods

Right, so he was retconned then. His form was changed forever.

Even after he gets the pieces back he explains he is back to being the multiversal scourge

>Darkseid

>Multiversal

As for the celestials at the beginning of the latest Avengers run, the celestials where being eradicated by the Avengers

Again, no context.

That’s not a counter argument

It is when you just say "Avengers beat them up" when you've probably missed all of the context. There's low showings for Celestials but pretty sure someone would have scans of those, naturally.

And perhaps it’s just as simple as I say. Like I said it’s the latest avengers run starting from literally chapter 1.

Pre-crisis Darkseid would body a celestial

From the next to no feats he had during then? His best stuff was Great Darkness and he was obviously amped during then. He had like one fight with Supergirl that ended in nothing?

Between his numerous hax even resurrection hax

>Hax

>Pre Crisis

Yeah, he ain't doing that. Most of the stuff you've mentioned is Great Darkness and the fights he had didn't have any hax.

@professorrespect:

Incorrect New 52 never reset Darkseid it merely gave him a new origin story

He's still reset, iirc. Hence why he doesn't simply recognize anyone from before.

Incorrect he doesn’t remember anyone because anyone because he is merely a shard of his true self which was shattered into multiple pieces in Final crisis. Darkseid spends most of his time in JLO getting these prices back and when he does Apokolips is finally elevated back to the sphere of the gods

Right, so he was retconned then. His form was changed forever.

Incorrect.

His form was just split up into many pieces he got them back and restored himself. So no. Not changed forever

Proof? How do we know this spilt didn't cause a radical shift?

Even after he gets the pieces back he explains he is back to being the multiversal scourge

>Darkseid

>Multiversal

I don't see anything here

Gallery

That’s not a counter argument

It is when you just say "Avengers beat them up" when you've probably missed all of the context. There's low showings for Celestials but pretty sure someone would have scans of those, naturally.

Surprisingly it just could be possible people don’t follow comics

That's a call to popularity, not a actual context supplier. I'd like to see the scans tbh.

Regardles I gave you the issue

No you didn't. You said "latest Avengers" when there's multiple tie-ins, King of Black runs, etc.

Between his numerous hax even resurrection hax

>Hax

>Pre Crisis

Yeah, he ain't doing that. Most of the stuff you've mentioned is Great Darkness and the fights he had didn't have any hax.

and even Orion has used the Astroforce to resurrect people

Non-combat, ofc.

Darkseid has actually resurrected Orion before

That's not hax but sure.

Furthermore ALE

Wasn't put together by Pre Crisis Darkseid. He wouldn't comprehend it.

@professorrespect:

Incorrect New 52 never reset Darkseid it merely gave him a new origin story

He's still reset, iirc. Hence why he doesn't simply recognize anyone from before.

Incorrect he doesn’t remember anyone because anyone because he is merely a shard of his true self which was shattered into multiple pieces in Final crisis. Darkseid spends most of his time in JLO getting these prices back and when he does Apokolips is finally elevated back to the sphere of the gods

Right, so he was retconned then. His form was changed forever.

Incorrect.

His form was just split up into many pieces he got them back and restored himself. So no. Not changed forever

Proof? How do we know this spilt didn't cause a radical shift?

Radical shift? What are you even referring too?

Referring to him being spilt? Effected by Flashpoint? The Manhattan stuff?

Surprisingly it just could be possible people don’t follow comics

That's a call to popularity, not a actual context supplier. I'd like to see the scans tbh.

Your line of thinking was hypocritical to begin with as you too used call to popularity by making the assumption everyone has read current comics

Not how that works, my friend. I assumed nothing and simply asked for the scans.

Regardles I gave you the issue

No you didn't. You said "latest Avengers" when there's multiple tie-ins, King of Black runs, etc.

Like I said issue 1 of the Aaron run.

And ofc, you miss out the context. That was Zgreb, who was a mutated Celestial and already weakened from his exposure to the Horde. This was before it went into conflict with the Avengers BC team, who had Odin, Phoenix, Agamotto, etc etc, who managed to beat it down even more where it stopped functioning for millions of years. The regular Avengers would beat those mutated Celestials later with a massive amp from the Uni-Mind and existing Celestials.

Furthermore ALE

Wasn't put together by Pre Crisis Darkseid. He wouldn't comprehend it.

Your assumption is false

It's not a "assumption" if

A. He doesn't know the Equation

B. He doesn't understand how to use it

It’s a mind dominance hax there is no comprehending

Incorrect. It's a Equation that supposed to prove the objective uselessness of reality. You have to know the Equation, obviously.

Celestial solos apokolips and new genesis

@professorrespect:

Incorrect New 52 never reset Darkseid it merely gave him a new origin story

He's still reset, iirc. Hence why he doesn't simply recognize anyone from before.

Incorrect he doesn’t remember anyone because anyone because he is merely a shard of his true self which was shattered into multiple pieces in Final crisis. Darkseid spends most of his time in JLO getting these prices back and when he does Apokolips is finally elevated back to the sphere of the gods

Right, so he was retconned then. His form was changed forever.

Incorrect.

His form was just split up into many pieces he got them back and restored himself. So no. Not changed forever

Proof? How do we know this spilt didn't cause a radical shift?

Radical shift? What are you even referring too?

Referring to him being spilt? Effected by Flashpoint? The Manhattan stuff?

There is no evidence was he was affected by that

Being spilt apart into tons of pieces isn't proof of him clearly being altered?

Surprisingly it just could be possible people don’t follow comics

That's a call to popularity, not a actual context supplier. I'd like to see the scans tbh.

Your line of thinking was hypocritical to begin with as you too used call to popularity by making the assumption everyone has read current comics

Not how that works, my friend. I assumed nothing and simply asked for the scans.

You did indeed ask for scans and I gave you the comic and issue number

Which is ofc, not scans.

Like I said issue 1 of the Aaron run.

And ofc, you miss out the context. That was Zgreb, who was a mutated Celestial and already weakened from his exposure to the Horde. This was before it went into conflict with the Avengers BC team, who had Odin, Phoenix, Agamotto, etc etc, who managed to beat it down even more where it stopped functioning for millions of years. The regular Avengers would beat those mutated Celestials later with a massive amp from the Uni-Mind and existing Celestials.

The uni-mind wasn’t even there

He was, but sure.

Your assumption is false

It's not a "assumption" if

A. He doesn't know the Equation

B. He doesn't understand how to use it

It’s a mind dominance hax there is no comprehending

Incorrect. It's a Equation that supposed to prove the objective uselessness of reality. You have to know the Equation, obviously.

A. He is in possession of the equation so he knows it

No he doesn't. You've assumed that because one has it, means therefore they KNOW it. This is simply not how possession of a object works. You can have a car but that doesn't mean you know how the car works. The Chinese Room Argument exists for this reason.

B. You’d have to prove darkseid doesn’t alway know how to use it

Nope. You have to prove your initial claim, especially considering Pre Crisis Darkseid never actually discovered the Equation. I'm merely dismissing that because you've not even provided a basis for it in the first place.

@superprimetime: avengers only beat the dark celestials(with help from the regular celestials) because they formed a uni-mind to render the horde dormant.

the dark celestials weren't fighting back

@professorrespect:

There is no evidence was he was affected by that

Being spilt apart into tons of pieces isn't proof of him clearly being altered?

It isn’t proof that his ALE feats shouldn’t be transferable to literally himsel

It's proof that he's been altered, obviously.

You did indeed ask for scans and I gave you the comic and issue number

Which is ofc, not scans.

Ive given you a reference to the evidence

Which is, ofc, not scans. The reason why I ask for scans is mostly because I figure what you were talking about was out of context, which it naturally was considering you didn't even know about the Avengers B.C being involved, the Dark Celestials, The Horde, etc. You just said "Avengers beat up Celestials".

The uni-mind wasn’t even there

He was, but sure.

Been a while since I read that comic, however it doesn’t change the fact She-Hulj was tearing threw some of them

Amped. The Avengers were amped when they faced the Dark Celestials at the end and She Hulk was already being overwhelmed by the Horde, let alone themselves beforehand.

A. He is in possession of the equation so he knows it

No he doesn't. You've assumed that because one has it, means therefore they KNOW it. This is simply not how possession of a object works. You can have a car but that doesn't mean you know how the car works. The Chinese Room Argument exists for this reason.

lol what?

First of all don’t be a brick for a start

Great argument.

Second of The OP is referring to an amped version of Darkseid

Amped refers to him having the ALE. Having is not the same as knowing how to use it. Learn the difference before hurling weak insults, which you most definitely don't need to be doing considering your history.

@junker134: I remember they used to bully Odin but now even she-hulk can oneshot a celestial at the start of the avengers run, literally at the start I’m not sure if she’s amped causes she a lot bigger then I remember looks like a girl hulk, when she used to look like a swimsuit model paint green.

@professorrespect said:

@bdelloidgrain2 said:

@professorrespect said:

@bdelloidgrain2 said:

@professorrespect said:

@bdelloidgrain2 said:

@professorrespect said:

@bdelloidgrain2 said:

People be downplaying Darkseid. Pre-crisis Darkseid with Anti-Life Equation? I'd say he wins this one.

You act like Pre Crisis Darkseid has insane feats when even in Great Darkness he was fighting Superboy and Supergirl and needing BFR to win the fight.

I was mainly referring to the man that said he was planetary.

He ain't got any potency feats on that level that aren't him amped on Mordru magic tho. We all know how inconsistent SA stuff is anyway.

He's more than capable of planet busting. Without being amped by magic.

In Pre Crisis? When is Darkseid doing that?

Through scaling. Darkseid at least Superman's level of strength, so he should be able to replicate something as trivial as planet-busting.

>Superman's level of strength

>shows him getting beat up while as Clark Kent and Seid being knocked around by Sups and co

Not really seeing it tbh. It's not even like Sups gives Seid credit while pretending to be human: he just says he was fast when choking him.

In the first scan, Superman literally said he couldn't see him. That is a full on blitz. The second scan shows Darkseid taking hits from both pre-crisis Superman and Supergirl.

@professorrespect: Bruh

It isn’t proof that his ALE feats shouldn’t be transferable to literally himsel

It's proof that he's been altered, obviously.

There is only one Darkseid throughout all of continuity

This is true for Pre and Post Darkseid (however, Pre Crisis in particular is being used) but not so for N52, who was obviously completely rewritten and given a new backstory and everything.

Ive given you a reference to the evidence

Which is, ofc, not scans. The reason why I ask for scans is mostly because I figure what you were talking about was out of context, which it naturally was considering you didn't even know about the Avengers B.C being involved, the Dark Celestials, The Horde, etc. You just said "Avengers beat up Celestials".

It has nothing to do with wanting to take things out of context, I do it to minimise stuff being taken out of context

And yet, it still happens, alas.

And yes you are correct I remembered the issue issue wrong they did in fact beat most of the celestials with the uni-mind I apologise however my true intention wasn’t that but rather to reveal that even She-Hulk and Captain marvel were capable of harming celestials

Proof? Knowing you there'll always be something you've forgotten or not bothered to remember.

Been a while since I read that comic, however it doesn’t change the fact She-Hulj was tearing threw some of them

Amped. The Avengers were amped when they faced the Dark Celestials at the end and She Hulk was already being overwhelmed by the Horde, let alone themselves beforehand.

I was talking about before she got amped

Before she got amped? She was getting beat by the Horde alone at that point.

lol what?

First of all don’t be a brick for a start

Great argument.

You are feigning ignorance to the OP’s clear intentions which is Darkseid is using the ALE

Using doesn't obviously assume one knows how to use it. The OP merely says Pre-Crisis Darkseid with the ALE. Is there any mention of a presumed knowledge?

you don’t even need to know it just like sonny sumo

Sonny had a part of the ALE already within him, which Mother Box tech uncovered. He had a unique connection to it in the first place hence why he could use it, abet in a very limited and basic format.

Second of The OP is referring to an amped version of Darkseid

Amped refers to him having the ALE. Having is not the same as knowing how to use it. Learn the difference before hurling weak insults, which you most definitely don't need to be doing considering your history.

Wrong because Darkseid knows how to use it

Nothing to prove this, thus there's nothing to say.

@professorrespect:

There is only one Darkseid throughout all of continuity

This is true for Pre and Post Darkseid (however, Pre Crisis in particular is being used) but not so for N52, who was obviously completely rewritten and given a new backstory and everything.

There is no such thing as Pre and Post Crisis Darkseid

There is here, ofc. The OP has specified that Pre Crisis is used here and not Post. Obviously as such we have to use Pre Crisis feats. I'm sure that's a point you can, at least, understand.

As a result Darkseid gets all feats

OP doesn't say that at all.