Dark Phoenix vs Void

Who is the bigger threat really?

Dark Phoenix...easily.

Void may be awesome, but he's nowhere near her level...

Dark Phoenix

This.

Void.

When you start beating the most powerful cosmic cube beings in existance and your power starts being compared with HOM Wanda, simultaneously being told that you might actually be a bigger threat, its hard to say otherwise.

@killemall:

I can't recall any of that.

This pretty much ends the debate.

You're talking about when Sentry fought MM?

Hmm..I don't know if that whole Void thing can be taken seriouy though. Did they not say the Sentry stalemated Galactus too?

Dark phoenix easily.

Who's A Bigger Threat?

Void easily.

as robert reynolds he could be anywhere, being normal, and then void out, and no one else on earth would be able to stop him.

as sentry, he could be hanging with the avengers, and then void out, and potentially kill them all.

power wise, it's dark phoenix but, threat level to earth is easily void. he defeated a mix of the avengers, the fantastic four, the inhumans, and the x-men without using any of his powers other than shapeshifting, also dr. strange and spiderman were there.

@thundergodswrath: i don't remember that, anyway he should be on SS league.

@ghostrider2: Thor is in the Silver Surfer's league and we seen how he made Thor helpless to his people.

I am referring to his fighting with Molecule Man, who is the most powerful cosmic cube being in existence.

Here we have Kubik, the guy who can hold an entire universe in his hand and nearly crush it, had to say against Molecule Man.

Yes , why do you ask?

@killemall: Yeah, I thought so. Nobody really buys that though, lol. You're not going to convince anybody that Sentry is as strong as a cosmic cube. I certainly don't believe it.

I understand, god knows i have called it PIS 100 of times, but the more i debate and more the re-read the issue, there honestly is absolutely nothing suggesting its PIS and few stuffs suggesting its not.

And well its on panel so not much you can do against that anyways.

Besides we are talking about who's a bigger threat, beating molecule man is one thing, here a statement where he is being compared to being beyond Molecule Man

Moonstone (Dark Ms Marvel) : "Did you read about the Scarlet Witch? Do you know what happened to her? That was nothing."

Clearly eluding Void might actually be a bigger threat, at least in Bendis mind and pen, than HOM Wanda. Now thats unsubstantiated wanking :p beating Molecule Man thats on panel :p

Void on SS league? Or Sentry?

Sentry normally given his character limitation and stability of mind is on league with SS , perhaps even below.

Void is a whole different class.

The dude nearly killed Avengers, Defeanders, Fantastic Four, and X-men together , and all they could do was beg to Sentry to come and defeat the Void...

@killemall:

I've seen the HOM Wanda scan.

I always thought it was referring to the change from Wanda -> HOM Wanda as opposed to the change from Sentry -> Void given that Void did nothing on par with HOM Wanda before that other than doing his routine 'imma shank you...in the SOUL!'.

Also, scans for Void defeating Kubik? That sounds like a pretty nifty fight.

Dark Phoenix.

@killemall: spiderman, dr. strange, and inhumans were there too. don't forget spiderman, he seems to always be there for sentry's high showings lol

Keep em coming.

This.

Could be, given the context i personaly interpret it as being a bigger threat to the planet.

Void has never even met Kubik. My point was Kubik is the ideal cosmic cube being, the "normal" cosmic cube being in existence, i was using Kubik statement against Molecule Man, followed by the scan, to suggest Molecule Man that Void defeated is the most powerful cosmic cube being in existence.

@killemall: There has been tons of people who have held the uncle universe in thier hands yes impressive, but dont forget who created that Universe.

Dark Phoenix is the bigger threat directly yes Void is but overall Dark Phoenix.

Are you kidding me?

There is no bigger threat in the marvel universe than the Phoenix, that is made very clear. When you fuse it with the corrupted humanity of the omega Jean Grey it becomes unfair, literally. Only way to stop the world from starting over in her image is getting to the sweetheart Marvel Girl underneath all that badass Phoenix.

Phoenix. Easily.

personally i don't see sentry beating molecule man as legit, 1 page after the fight finished it is stated that owen couldn't differentiate between what's real and what's not real, also 2 handbooks (1 being dark reign files) state that his powers are unstable and most importantly.....places conditions upon his own power. Not to mention that 1 issue prior it is stated that he wanted to fail......those should be taken into consideration, imo.

There arent tons of people who have held the universe in their hand and nearly crushed it like Kubik, they are very few.

In terms of Phoenix, White Phoenix is the only one who has done so.

The big bang created the universe and there are multiple story telling us different things on why there was a big bang.

Phoenix had nothing to do with creation of universe, as Phoenix was killed before the universe died, and reborn, alongside everyone else as the big bang orginated

I disagree on the first part but thats what the thread is about anyways, so lets leave it at that.

Dark Phoenix feats have been underwhelming, in 616 it was pretty much limited to going around consuming stars and fighting Shiar.

@killemall: -_- it was an exaggeration Theres been a few who have an have the power to.

An white Phoenix is mainly Dark Phoenix but calm.

An the Phoenix is the spark that created the Universe i think that means the Phoenix was the created it.

An ok we disagree them

An yea there that an never actually being defeated without Jeans help an major prep but ok.

@killemall: Void.I don't feel he is a bigger deal than SS, really.He is a threat but nothing SS wouldn't handle.And you know what he can do.Or was SS there too when they fought Void?

@magnificentstorm:

The Phoenix is as what it is.. A Phoenix.. It died in the previous universe and was reborn as the creation of the next occurred ! Same as galan (Galactus) who survived the destruction of the last univers (some how) Phoenix didn't create anything.. She's just there lol .. TOAA is the creator ! Whether you believe TOAA to be an actual character or just the writer is up to you.. As for the thread topic.. Void is more dangerous only because he can only be killed if. Robert wants to die.. The host of the Phoenix can be killed but the Force it's self would probably be reborn if it was destroyed .

Dark Phoenix

He was not there. also you say Void wins, but go to say SS is better!? SS is inferior to Phoenix by a large margin? What was your stance on who wins?

@cadencev2: Unfortunately he is, and yeah Void is more dangerous.

OK.

@imnemothegemini: Um the Phoenix is said to be "the embodiment of the very passion of Creation – the spark that gave life to the Universe, the flame that will ultimately consume it."

An I believe TOAA created the Phoenix to create the Universe

Fair enough.

Thats not true she was shown to be the leader of the Phoenix Corps, and she had a whole lot of Phoenixs who were following her command. Phoenix Handbook 2006 would go outright to say White Phoenix is the most powerful version with all the powers of the Phoenix Force.

Hyperboles aside, its not. We have multiple times seen how a universe was created thru big bang, would you like me to post scans? There are quite a few i can post.

Not to mention Phoenix actually died before the 616 was created, its on Adventures of X men 12, and was reborn after the big bang with every other abstract, would you like those scans as well??

Phoenix is linked, somehow to stars, at least in few issues, but Phoenix has never been explained as the creator of the universe, the best we have is an unsubstantiated claim from the watcher that she is the "passion of the creator" no idea what that even means.

Cool.

Phoenix Force itself without a host has been defeated and made to flee multiple times, once by Thor during AvX. Even in this ongoing What If AvX Thor managed to really harm the Phoenix force, but force without a human host is vulnerable.

We have also seen Dormammu defeat or at least have Phoenix X from Reality 691 helpless. We have Franklin in at least on alternate reality beat Phoenix and in one lose against it. We have Onslaught during Onslaught saga claim he is more powerful than Phoenix a claim Jean seem to accept.

We have the fake Magneto kill Jean as Phoenix using planetary emp.

Phoenix is by no means undefeatable.

Do let me know if there is any scans here you would like to see.

We can agree to disagree, but i dont see how SS would deal with a matter manipulator, who can resurrect from the dead willy nilly, has been said to have the power of a god, and single handedly has Avengers, Defenders, X-men and FF helpless. He has limited feats, but those are much better than Silver Surfers.

@killemall:

Void defeated Molecule Man? o_O

Dark Phoenix.

THIS

I think that while hypothetically Void could be more powerful than DP, the Force is the more seasoned and experienced an entity, and would find a way to survive and continue on existing in this reality because it has proven the more capable of the two of doing so.

The Phoenix has shown by far greater control over it's hosts than Void showed over Sentry, and that's what was ultimately it's downfall.

Phoenix is a part of Cosmic Consonance, and has survived in various hosts and for eons. Void, albeit formidable, did not have full access or control of his matter manipulation / reality warping powers, was simply a powerful flash in the pan who without Robert Reynolds, is literally nothing.

Yes, where you not aware of that, scans are here from Dark Avengers 12

Gallery

Phoenix.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Sorry stupid freaking comicvine didnt upload the last, most crucial scan.. ah here it is

Well... We haven't seen that much about Void, but he has some pretty high ends feats... So i may assume he has more potential than Dark Phoenix, and for that reason im slightly leaned to Void in this one.

@killemall:

Hadn't seen it, actually. I don't follow the Avengers 616 or any of the high tier chars really.

But MM's power fluctuates a lot.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Oh cool, and i only follow the high tier characters :p.. lol.

MM power depends on his stability, although we saw MM ascend to his true power in Fantastic Four Annual 27, there is nothing to suggest he was weaker or less powerful now. There is an odd instance with she hulk where he Hulks up for a while, but he doesnt fight anyone.

There are a lot of stuffs eluding to him being mega powerful though, i mean Void. Apart from the fight with Sentry, and the questionable instance with Thor where BOB himself begs for Thor to kill him when before that Void was practically laughing off Thor's attack, sort of suggest Void has always been mega powerful.

He was outright called All Power force of nature, during Seige 04.

@killemall: Has void ever been beaten?