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#1 Edited by Amendment50 (14773 posts) - - Show Bio
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Daredevil (616)

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Punisher and Black Widow (616)

Victory by incap, KO, surrender or death

All rounds are random encounters with no prep

Fight here all rounds:

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Starting distance 25 feet, starting out in the open.

Round 1:

In-character

No gear; pure H2H

Round 2:

In-character

Standard gear (Frank and Natasha are equipped with nonlethal rounds)

Round 3:

Morals off

Standard gear

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#3 Posted by IndomitableRegal (14602 posts) - - Show Bio

R1) Matt wins the very slim majority; he'd be beat to hell after though.

R2) I could see the team taking the majority.

R3) The duo kill him.

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#7 Posted by jashro44 (50896 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Matt
  2. Duo
  3. Duo
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#8 Posted by AllStarSuperman (42501 posts) - - Show Bio

Dumb. Matt isn’t winning a 2v1 in any condition. They are both comparable to him individually

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#9 Posted by Amendment50 (14773 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: In my opinion Matt has proven himself well superior to either on their own.

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5c15205dbdcac (503 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: Natasha can give Daredevil a fight on her own add punisher and you make it a stomp

R2:The duo

R3:Widow stomps on her own

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#11 Posted by Myleftbuttcheeksolos (235 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil loses majority in all rounds

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#12 Posted by Michaelbn (1379 posts) - - Show Bio

@amendment50: Next time you make something for DD call me out too.

R1: Matt, they're just lucky he's in character.

R2: Depends, DD handled situations like this.

R3: Not enough knowledge on their standard arsenal (both lethal and non-lethal) right now.

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#13 Posted by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt has already stomped Frank more times than i can remember so he's practically fodder here. Natasha doesn't stand a chance against Matt either.

I see no reason why he doesn't win all three rounds.

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#14 Edited by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: Matt, he's plain superior.

R2: Matt should still win, I don't know what Frank is supposed to do with non-lethal rounds.

R3: Team, most definitely, Widow is damn underrated. Matt fodderised her once, I can post a scan where she fodderised him by just shooting him, doesn't make much of a difference. She's still shown she can fight the likes of Elektra and Hawkeye, both perfectly comparable to Daredevil on even terms. On average, he's better, but with Frank backup, she takes it.

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#15 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18037 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: How is Clint compeable to Matt?

He has consistent stalemates with and/or wins over Captain America and Mockingbird, who are certainly comparable to Matt.

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#17 Posted by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria said:

@anthp2000: How is Clint compeable to Matt?

He has consistent stalemates with and/or wins over Captain America and Mockingbird, who are certainly comparable to Matt.

I can get the part where Rogers is comparable Matt, but what has Mockingbird exactly done to be comparable to Matt?

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#18 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:
@_kingoflatveria said:

@anthp2000: How is Clint compeable to Matt?

He has consistent stalemates with and/or wins over Captain America and Mockingbird, who are certainly comparable to Matt.

I can get the part where Rogers is comparable Matt, but what has Mockingbird exactly done to be comparable to Matt?

Gave a good fight to Rogers...

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#19 Edited by _KingofLatveria (18037 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: scan?

EDIT: Are we talking about training sessions...?

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#20 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by deactivated-5c15205dbdcac (503 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: if you talking about this fight...

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Natasha was holding back and there was some child involved (He basically nerve strike her which I don't consider a fight)

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#22 Posted by Morpheus_ (33865 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt sweeps.

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#23 Posted by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar said:

I can get the part where Rogers is comparable Matt, but what has Mockingbird exactly done to be comparable to Matt?

Gave a good fight to Rogers...

Matt has also given good fights to Rogers. Besides that, your reasoning behind Natasha being comparable to Matt is basic ABC Logic : Natasha stalemated Elektra (outlier) who can give Daredevil good fights and fought Hawkeye who fought Captain America and fought Mockingbird and the latter has fought Captain America as well. If we go by ABC Logic : Matt consistently stomps Bullseye and Punisher, when the latter has stalemated her and the former has beaten her.

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#24 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:
@king-ragnar said:

I can get the part where Rogers is comparable Matt, but what has Mockingbird exactly done to be comparable to Matt?

Gave a good fight to Rogers...

Matt has also given good fights to Rogers. Besides that, your reasoning behind Natasha being comparable to Matt is basic ABC Logic : Natasha stalemated Elektra (outlier) who can give Daredevil good fights and fought Hawkeye who fought Captain America and fought Mockingbird and the latter has fought Captain America as well. If we go by ABC Logic : Matt consistently stomps Bullseye and Punisher, when the latter has stalemated her and the former has beaten her.

I didn't even say Natasha's comparable to Matt, I said she can beat him with Frank's aid.

It's not called basic ABC logic, it's called scaling. When did I say Matt hasn't given Rogers a good fight in the past? He has, but so have people that Natasha has done well against. There's also nothing to suggest Natasha stalemating Elektra is an outlier, a high-end maybe, but not an outlier at all. Frank is not on Widow's level consistently, and Matt has only been able to stomp Bullseye in recent years.

The 616 is full of inconsistencies because it's one Marvel earth with dozens of writers who'd been taking on these characters since God knows when, but if you're willing to base an entire argument on Daredevil contextually one shoting BW like once, I can base an argument based on the fact that she's been taking on people on his paygrade since forever. With most 616 characters, it's honestly just a matter of opinion and favoritism, and it shows in these debates.

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5c0937ce9ad57 (73 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt wins Round 1. Duo wins Round 2 & 3.

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#26 Posted by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

It's not called basic ABC logic, it's called scaling. When did I say Matt hasn't given Rogers a good fight in the past? He has, but so have people that Natasha has done well against.

It is ABC Logic, in fact it's the most basic form of ABC logic. Character X is Comparable to A because X has fought Y and Z and those to having given character B a good fight. I mean, if i scale Matt like that he'd be the best fighter in the Marvel Universe.

There's also nothing to suggest Natasha stalemating Elektra is an outlier a high-end maybe, but not an outlier at all.

Elektra is better than Natasha in every conceivable way. And if we go by your scaling, she's better than Natasha because she has given Daredevil better fights than her.

Frank is not on Widow's level consistently

Widow isn't on Elektras level consistently as well

and Matt has only been able to stomp Bullseye in recent years.

Really...?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Daredevil Vol #161

The 616 is full of inconsistencies because it's one Marvel earth with dozens of writers who'd been taking on these characters since God knows when

Daredevil is literally the most consistently written character in terms of his skill. Iron Fist, Captain America and Black Panther are all consistently written in terms of their fighting skill.

but if you're willing to base an entire argument on Daredevil contextually one shoting BW like once,

No, I'm not basing it on Guardian devil. I'm basing it on other instances as well. Such as this for example where he took down a mind controlled Natasha (who was programmed to kill him) in one move.

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Daredevil Vol 1 #93

Or another instance where he restrained her with zero effort :

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Daredevil Vol 1 #83

With most 616 characters, it's honestly just a matter of opinion and favoritism, and it shows in these debates.

No, it isn't. Daredevil is objectively better than Natasha in every way. I don't need to favor the likes of Iron Fist and Black Panther to know that they're better than the likes of Bullseye, Punisher and Black Widow.

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#27 Posted by Helloman (25154 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt wins Round 1. Duo wins Round 2 & 3.

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#28 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar:

Okay, if this is ABC logic, how do you propose we judge fighters? Because this kind of scaling is precisely the way we know how they compare to one another. Or are we going to rely on Handbooks exclusively?

... this is what you call a stomp? Lester landed repeated hits on Matt, caught his Club and downed him before Murdock took him down hand to hand. This is not a stomp, at all. As I said, I cannot think of one instance of classic Bullseye vs Daredevil that was a stomp.

Mind control and the fact that Natasha litteraly never wanted to fight Matt are context that exists (admittedly haven't read either of these issues). Doesn't really change my point either way.

And again, when did I say Matt's not objectively better than Bullseye or Black Widow? When in the world did I say Iron Fist or T'Challa aren't? But it is, in fact, a matter of subjectivity and favoritism when you argue that Daredevil is going to stomp Natasha or Lester, because there's a bunch of arguments and evidence to suggest otherwise, and I feel I'm being more than fair when I say Widow/Punisher together could drop Matt.

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#29 Edited by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

Okay, if this is ABC logic, how do you propose we judge fighters? Because this kind of scaling is precisely the way we know how they compare to one another.

You're "scaling" Natasha in way if i would "Scale" Matt to he'd be the best fighter in the universe. Matt stalemated Iron Fist who beat Mister X who beat Taskmaster therefore Daredevil > Taskmaster.

Or are we going to rely on Handbooks exclusively?

No, we rely on consistent showings.

... this is what you call a stomp? Lester landed repeated hits on Matt, caught his Club and downed him before Murdock took him down hand to hand. This is not a stomp, at all.

Matt was literally stomping Lester.

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The only reason Lester managed to get a couple of hits off was because Matt smacked him away creating a distance between the two and he began throwing projectiles.

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The second Matt closed the distance, he went back to stomping him.

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Mind control and the fact that Natasha litteraly never wanted to fight Matt are context that exists (admittedly haven't read either of these issues). Doesn't really change my point either way.

Natasha wanted to kill Matt in Daredevil Vol 1 #93. She was brainwashed for that sole purpose.

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And again, when did I say Matt's not objectively better than Bullseye or Black Widow?

You're "scaling" Black Widow off people who are supposedly comparable to Matt (To be fair Rogers is, tho Hawkeye and Mockingbird are tiers below Daredevil).

When in the world did I say Iron Fist or T'Challa aren't?

You literally said the 616 is full of inconsistencies

But it is, in fact, a matter of subjectivity and favoritism when you argue that Daredevil is going to stomp Natasha or Lester,

I don't need to have Daredevil as my favorite Marvel character to argue that he'd stomp Natasha or Lester. From an objective standpoint, he does and already has.

because there's a bunch of arguments and evidence to suggest otherwise,

No there aren't. Matt has always been superior to both of them.

and I feel I'm being more than fair when I say Widow/Punisher together could drop Matt.

Punisher is downright fodder to Matt. In fact, Frank already admitted he has never been a match for Matt in Punisher Vol 5 #3 :

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And Matt has already proven that he's blatantly superior to Natasha in every way that matters. There isn't a single argument you can make for Frank and Natasha winning (Unless you give Frank Prep time, which in that case, he'd solo).

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#30 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar:

No, we rely on consistent showings.

Which by your definition is still ABC logic.

Matt was literally stomping Lester.

The only reason Lester managed to get a couple of hits off was because Matt smacked him away creating a distance between the two and he began throwing projectiles.

The second Matt closed the distance, he went back to stomping him.

Lester didn't "manage to get a couple of hits off", he hit him 4-5 times, caught his billy club and smacked him to the ground; if this is what you call a stomp, there's probably no fair fight you've seen in fiction besides complete stalemates. And what does it matter that this happened because Matt opened distance? He's fully aware of Lester's capabilities, he made that mistake and Lester abused it, end of story.

You're "scaling" Black Widow off people who are supposedly comparable to Matt (To be fair Rogers is, tho Hawkeye and Mockingbird are tiers below Daredevil).

Yes, Hawkeye and Mockingbird have stalemated or outright beated Captain America, but they're not comparable to Captain America and they're "tiers below Daredevil", that makes sense.

You literally said the 616 is full of inconsistencies

Which is 100% true, but when in the world did I say Bullseye, Widow or Punisher are as good as Iron Fist or T'Challa? Show me.

I don't need to have Daredevil as my favorite Marvel character to argue that he'd stomp Natasha or Lester. From an objective standpoint, he does and already has.

Fine. Lester has already beaten Elektra (by your definition he probably "stomped" her), and Black Widow has already stalemated Elektra. So I can say that they already have this kind of established relation to one another in combat. Does that sound right? I don't think Black Widow can match Daredevil on her own at all, even though she has litteraly ended the fight between them as soon as it started in the past, because this kind of one sided fight is not consistent on my book. Maybe in your book Matt fodderising Natasha is totally consistent and without context, I ain't contesting that opinion, I don't think I care enough to; there are not consistent combat levels in the vast majority of the 616 street level/tier, Black Widow is not consistent at all, so your opinion of her and how she compares to Daredevil is not something we will agree on. We agree she ain't on his level, but we don't agree on the difference between them.

No there aren't. Matt has always been superior to both of them.

Except there are, and these are the exact arguments I presented above. I don't know what your problem is here at all: I said Matt is objectively better than them but I don't think he'd stomp Natasha or Lester on average and that I don't think he can solo Nat and Frank, so tell me exactly when in all of this I said Matt isn't superior to them, I'll wait.

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#31 Posted by deactivated-5c0b19c56d708 (624 posts) - - Show Bio

@indomitableregal said:

R1) Matt wins the very slim majority; he'd be beat to hell after though.

R2) I could see the team taking the majority.

R3) The duo kill him.

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#32 Posted by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

Which by your definition is still ABC logic.

Consistent showings aren't ABC logic. Natasha has zero showings that enable her to give Matt a good fight aside from ABC logic.

Lester didn't "manage to get a couple of hits off", he hit him 4-5 times, caught his billy club and smacked him to the ground;

And the only reason he managed to do that was because of the distance.

And what does it matter that this happened because Matt opened distance? He's fully aware of Lester's capabilities, he made that mistake and Lester abused it, end of story.

Because Matt was humiliating him every time they were in CQC? Then again if you don't believe this is a stomp (which it is), Matt already humiliated Lester in his second appearance :

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Daredevil Vol 1 #132

Yes, Hawkeye and Mockingbird have stalemated or outright beated Captain America, but they're not comparable to Captain America and they're "

Mockingbirds one showing against Rogers doesn't change the fact that Rogers is better than her in every conceivable way and has infinitely better showings than both her and Hawkeye.

tiers below Daredevil", that makes sense.

Because they are. That is proven by consistent showings. I'd be more than happy to use Daredevil versus Mockingbird and Hawkeye in a CaV if you believe they're comparable to him.

Which is 100% true

That's true for the likes of Gladiator, Sentry and Hyperion. Not people like Daredevil.

but when in the world did I say Bullseye, Widow or Punisher are as good as Iron Fist or T'Challa? Show me.

I never said you did, i said :

I don't need to favor the likes of Iron Fist and Black Panther to know that they're better than the likes of Bullseye, Punisher and Black Widow.

In response to your statement :

With most 616 characters, it's honestly just a matter of opinion and favoritism

I never said you that claimed The 3 are better than IF or BP.

Fine. Lester has already beaten Elektra (by your definition he probably "stomped" her)

Lester beat Elektra back when she had less than a dozen appearances. Besides that, it was her only ever loss to him. She later beat him in Elektra Vol 2 #6 and Elektra Vol 4 #11

and Black Widow has already stalemated Elektra

Outlier.

So I can say that they already have this kind of established relation to one another in combat.

No they don't. Elektra has fought with the likes of Daredevil, Iron Fist, Silver Samurai, Wolverine. All whom blow Natasha out of the water in every possible way.

Maybe in your book Matt fodderising Natasha is totally consistent and without context,

I showed you two other instances aside from Guardian devil.

Except there are, and these are the exact arguments I presented above. I don't know what your problem is here at all: I said Matt is objectively better than them but I don't think he'd stomp Natasha or Lester on average

Matt already has stomped both Natasha and Lester, i showed you 2 instances of him stomping both of them (I have more instances for Lester as well).

he can solo Nat and Frank

Frank is fodder to Matt. He's literally a non factor in this fight.

so tell me exactly when in all of this I said Matt isn't superior to them, I'll wait.

You didn't. You're "scaling" Black Widow off of characters who are comparable to Matt.

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#33 Posted by Aqualion0 (357 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure about R1 but I can definetely see Punisher soloing in other rounds.

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#34 Posted by Warlockmage (8451 posts) - - Show Bio

i'd like to chime in here... im fairly knowledgeable on Clint and Daredevil... if they fought in close combat Matt would win 10/10. Matt is a far better fighter. They are not comparable

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#35 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar:

Define "consistent showings". Is it not combat feats against other fighters, as in scaling? I never said she can give him a "good fight", but I disagree he's gonna stomp her or Lester.

And the only reason he managed to do that was because of the distance.

Which was opened in the middle of the fight.... you do realise Matt opening distance the way he did is part of the fight? You do realise fights are more than CQC or hand to hand? This is why people like Bullseye aren't irrelevant in Marvel.

Mockingbirds one showing against Rogers doesn't change the fact that Rogers is better than her in every conceivable way and has infinitely better showings than both her and Hawkeye.

Boy you have a stick really high up there. You've said before you don't even know much to anything about Bobbi, yet your reasoning for her not being comparable to Rogers, despite the fact that she's given him a good fight in the past, is that "he is a better than her in every concievable way". I honestly couldn't care less if she has feats on par with Captain America or not, she fought him and there's nothing inconsistent about their fight: end of story. Hawkeye himself has beaten Cap 1 on 1. I don't argue for either Clint or Bobbi taking a majority over Rogers on average, but frankly, they're comparable and there's nothing to debunk these showings or suggest they're inconsistent, period. I don't understand the problem here.

Because they are. That is proven by consistent showings. I'd be more than happy to use Daredevil versus Mockingbird and Hawkeye in a CaV if you believe they're comparable to him.

I don't want to CaV with either Hawkeye or Mockingbird, I'm not at all an expert on them, certainly not enough for a CaV, I've just read a bunch of stuff for them and I provide scans with their feats proving that, in fact, they are not "tiers below Daredevil". If Matt was tiers above them, he'd stomp Rogers, end of story.

Lester beat Elektra back when she had less than a dozen appearances. Besides that, it was her only ever loss to him. She later beat him in Elektra Vol 2 #6 and Elektra Vol 4 #11

Outlier.

Yes, great arguments. Perfect reasoning as to why we should ignore these fights and only take into account Matt and Elektra's victories over them to prove that they couldn't even put up somewhat of a fight against him, that is totally objective.

No they don't. Elektra has fought with the likes of Daredevil, Iron Fist, Silver Samurai, Wolverine. All whom blow Natasha out of the water in every possible way.

Exactly, there's these other showings to suggest Elektra is better than Black Widow. Just as there are a bunch of showings of Natasha to suggest that Daredevil one shotting her is far from consistent. If you want to say that she's canon fodder to him consistently and with no context, that's fine, but don't open a discussion about how the gap is not even remotely subjective.

Matt already has stomped both Natasha and Lester, i showed you 2 instances of him stomping both of them (I have more instances for Lester as well).

Fine, here's Lester "stomping" Matt.

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Daredevil VII #5

Here's Natasha keeping up with and outhitting Matt hand to hand, then gunning him down (he makes it clear it happened because he wasn't expecting her to seriously harm him, but it's worth noting that she went through his Radar Sense, even then).

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Daredevil #368

I'm sure you can show me Matt stomping Lester or Nat, but it doesn't mean you have to expect me to take these showings at face value and completely ignore these other scans.

Frank is fodder to Matt. He's literally a non factor in this fight.

If you want to call a mismatch on this fight, tag a mod and we'll see how it goes. Frankly, loads of people agreed that the team has a pretty good chance or that they outright win the third round.

You didn't. You're "scaling" Black Widow off of characters who are comparable to Matt.

If I didn't, why do you keep emphasizing how Matt is and has always been superior to them, as if I said he isn't? That shows nothing but salt.

I'm scaling Black Widow off of characters comparable to Matt because you said that she couldn't put up a fight against characters comparable to Matt. Matt has high ends where he takes her out with little to no difficulty, Widow has high ends too - on average, he's more consistent and has a more impressive collection of showings. But that doesn't mean he's going to stomp her, on average. I'm always going by average, because comicbooks aren't consistent for absurdly obvious reasons, as in 100 different writers working on a single character for over 20 years. As readers who debates battles, we are expected to percieve these characters' standing one way or another, IMO your view on Daredevil compared to Widow or Bullseye is flawed, because you choose to litteraly ignore their own feats and focus on Matt's high ends. Personally, I think Widow has enough fights with higher tier opponents like Elektra and Hawkeye to suggest she can put up a fight against Matt before losing, and that with someone good marksman's aid, she can take him, you don't. That's fine, but you can't expect me to agree and say that your opinion is an indisputable objective GOAT fact.

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#36 Posted by LightYagami1000 (479 posts) - - Show Bio

R1) Matt wins the very slim majority; he'd be beat to hell after though.

R2) I could see the team taking the majority.

R3) The duo kill him.

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#37 Posted by uugieboogie (12945 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt should spank them in Round 1. The duo probably takes rounds 2 and 3.

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#38 Posted by King-Ragnar (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I'm done wasting my time.

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#39 Posted by Supermanthor (5679 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt should spank them in Round 1. The duo probably takes rounds 2 and 3.

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#40 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (919 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Daredevil

Round 2: Daredevil

Round 3: Team

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#41 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (919 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar: ikr lol I’m tired of these threads you can barely debate

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#42 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.

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#43 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18037 posts) - - Show Bio

That was a great read...

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#44 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18037 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

She's still shown she can fight the likes of Elektra and Hawkeye,

To my knowledge, Clint and Natasha have never had a straight up fight.

  • They had a clash where they weren't fighting instead using tactics to try and outperform one another and they had another fight on an airplane where Clint was mind controlled where she dominated him at close range but didn't take him seriously

Clint isn't comparable to Matt in close combat, that win against Captain America you're referencing was Steve trying to bring him in peacefully, Clint dodged one kick and then laid him out with a trick arrow which I consider kinda PIS since Clint's bow has been stated as 250 pounds. It would have to fire hypersonic arrows to somehow tag a consistent bullet timer like Steve without the use of ricochets or anything fancy. It was meant to show Clint's growth as a fighter but I'm not getting behind the idea of Cap unable to react to arrows 3-4 feet away. That's Clint's only good feat that establishes him on Matt's level if we take it context-free. Clint w/o a bow isn't exactly a Daredevil level fighter...or anywhere near close like he's decent but this is what Natasha did to an army of at least 8 ninjas each of which were capable of disarming and blitzing Clint before he could even react. We see her engage at least 3 of them at once in the backgrounds of Clint's fight with only 1 ninja. That should show the difference in skill between the two.

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Widowmaker #3

As for Elektra, the feat is very high end for Natasha and it's not something I imagine her replicating best out of 10. I wouldn't say its an outlier like AF but I don't think that fight is enough to establish her being able to contend with Matt in straight up h2h, Elektra like AF said is featwise better in essentially every category that matters in an h2h fight. Speed, strength, skill, stamina, stealth, durability. Her stalemating her can be chalked up to the fight being in her own book and writer bias being present. Like you said ["The 616 verse is very inconsistent']. The most comparable feats would be that one above ^ or defeating Lady Bullseye and even those aren't as good.

I'm still confused as to what's even happening in the fight with Steve and Bobbi, I haven't read the issue or anything but from what I'm gathering Steve's literally just playing cat and mouse with her. Bobbi even states that Steve could've probably finished her in one of those scans but he ran away. Also, Steve doesn't throw a single punch in that battle which to me implies he wasn't even trying to fight her. I do know Clint almost fodderised Bobbi on one occasion so that showing with Steve doesn't make sense anyways even assuming he was taking her seriously.

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#45 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18037 posts) - - Show Bio

At close range, Matt would win. With range I see the team taking the win more often that not.

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#46 Posted by Amendment50 (14773 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria said:

At close range, Matt would win. With range I see the team taking the win more often that not.

So under the conditions of the thread who do you give it to?

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#47 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23058 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria said:

That was a great read...

Comicvine:

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KOL:

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Comicvine:

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Anyway, we essentially agree, but I'll try to reply anyway. Not tonight though.

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#48 Posted by _KingofLatveria (18037 posts) - - Show Bio
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